Johnson, and now Kemp, hung out to dry

[dsprout]

Gerald Kemp has problems with the head coach. Jordy Johnson has problems with a sex issue. Both problems are light years apart and should not be put in the same basket.

Kemp got his teet in a ringer for arguing with the coaches and allowed his temper to get in the way of good judgement.....!

Johnson got his way with a female that was acting 2 hot for the situation. Judgement failed perhaps.

On Kemp, Mick simply kicked his butt off the team for acting like an idiot child. However he also said at the time if Kemp mans up etc. he would consider placing him back on the team (with conditions). Our wonder woman, Ms Gee took the first part and fed the fire, made the announcement with a total lack of understanding the problem. Like in a rush to judgement that seems to have caught on at the U since R.E. took over.

Johnson is another story we have beat to death. Not similar to Kemps.

I won't go as far as Sir Growler but I will jump in and state "we will have a serious AD laxative issue at the U if Jean Gee is selected by La president."

For my own entertainment I will also not wish a bull dike or a flop like Obama to become AD. Eh Growler?

It's the 21st century, boys; get over it. The AD position is an administrational position. It involves intelligence and good decision making skills; neither of which are exclusive to either gender. You hire the best person available regardless of gender. Having an all male hierarchy did not save Penn State from its debacle while some may feel that it actually contributed to the problem. Having male superiors did not save Coach Phlu. I don't know Gee from a fence post. If she is not the right person for the job, she shouldn't be hired. That should be the only contributing factor. Don't let your "nut-sack" override your brain. You don't eliminate 50% the choices because some testosterone driven fool can't take an ass-chewing from his boss when he's out of line when that boss happens to be a member of the opposite sex. Where's your balls in that situation, Boys?

 

[PlayerRep]

I must be in the minority here, but I don't see them as being hung out to dry. I see them as young men who for one reason or another have stepped across the big white line in the sand. They have violated one rule or another. Is it tweets, being in the wrong place, or whatever their misdeed is their actions have put them there. One easy way to make sure that Kemp or Johnson or anyone else for that matter isn't on the political crap list is not do the stuff they aren't supposed to do in the first place.

This isn't Gee's, Engstroms or someone elses misdoings that put them there. Lets not forget that. I think we do because it seems that we all want to do what Penn State and other colleges have done for decades, which is not holding people accountable for their behavior. Even if Kemp and Johnson didn't do what they were accused of, they and they alone made some questionable decision making to put themselves there. They made their own bed.

I am sympathetic to their plight and they both should get their ability to present their case, but not at the expense of brushing stuff under the rug anymore. Like it or not, this is not the climate for patience and prudence. They and others have been crossing that white line entirely too often and faced little or no punishment for those misdeeds. So if that means for the time being Kemp, Johnson and others are shown the door for incredibly poor judgement than that is how it needs to be for a while. There cannot be stink attached to this program from here on out or the political winds will make sure the program will ensure they are given the death penalty and play in front of sparse crowds and no scholarships.

This isn't about wins and losses. This isn't about starting quarterbacks, the football program or some political gambit. All about doing things the right way and with a clear white line that these players know not to cross.

I agree

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

I'm with you guys too, for whatever it's worth...

And that doesn't mean I'm passing any kind of judgment on JJ or Kemp. I don't even know what Kemp's "team rules violation" was, and there are legitimate questions about whether JJ's situation was handled in a way that didn't violate his due process rights. Both of them are entitled to their day in...not "court," but they're entitled to whatever process their respective situations allow them. But if, after exhausting that process, the result is that they're no longer members of the Griz football team, then that's the way it is, and it's the right result. The players need to realize that the environment at UM is changing, and they have to behave accordingly.

+1. The Montana Grizzly football program is moving forward, with or without the win-at-all-cost crowd.

There is no win-at-all-cost crowd at UM. Never has been; never will. Please stop saying such dumb things.

 

[Grizfan-24]

Player,

I don't want to get into a pissing match with you. I understand your point of view but I wholeheartedly disagree. We UofM fans like to think we aren't Miami, OSU, or USC or even Penn State. The fact is that we are. There has been a lot of unholy crap that has gone on in the program and around the program since the early 90's that has been ignored. Was or is it a conspiracy to ignore wrong doings by a lot of people? No probably not, but we sure as heck like those at Penn State didn't want to upset the apple cart. That is win at all costs. I and a lot of other people in Missoula turned our heads and allowed football players and other athletes to escape punishment for the fear of hurting the teams chances to win. There are a lot of good people within the Athletic Department and football program, and while their intentions were good and grand they made the decisions to ignore information or not pursue information they had because it would upset the apple cart.

I know we want to support those players to the nth degree. To make sure they get the 'justice' they 'deserve.' That is what is perverse. They don't deserve justice. Kemp and Johnson put themselves in position to have their destiny taken out of their own hands. That simple.

 

[Growler1]

I agree

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

I'm with you guys too, for whatever it's worth...

And that doesn't mean I'm passing any kind of judgment on JJ or Kemp. I don't even know what Kemp's "team rules violation" was, and there are legitimate questions about whether JJ's situation was handled in a way that didn't violate his due process rights. Both of them are entitled to their day in...not "court," but they're entitled to whatever process their respective situations allow them. But if, after exhausting that process, the result is that they're no longer members of the Griz football team, then that's the way it is, and it's the right result. The players need to realize that the environment at UM is changing, and they have to behave accordingly.

+1. The Montana Grizzly football program is moving forward, with or without the win-at-all-cost crowd.

There is no win-at-all-cost crowd at UM. Never has been; never will. Please stop saying such dumb things.

Oh yeah right! Like you and Tokyo's pictures aren't right next to the definition of "win-at'-all-costs" in Websters.

 

[Grizzoola]

Player,

I don't want to get into a pissing match with you. I understand your point of view but I wholeheartedly disagree. We UofM fans like to think we aren't Miami, OSU, or USC or even Penn State. The fact is that we are. There has been a lot of unholy crap that has gone on in the program and around the program since the early 90's that has been ignored. Was or is it a conspiracy to ignore wrong doings by a lot of people? No probably not, but we sure as heck like those at Penn State didn't want to upset the apple cart. That is win at all costs. I and a lot of other people in Missoula turned our heads and allowed football players and other athletes to escape punishment for the fear of hurting the teams chances to win. There are a lot of good people within the Athletic Department and football program, and while their intentions were good and grand they made the decisions to ignore information or not pursue information they had because it would upset the apple cart.

I know we want to support those players to the nth degree. To make sure they get the 'justice' they 'deserve.' That is what is perverse. They don't deserve justice. Kemp and Johnson put themselves in position to have their destiny taken out of their own hands. That simple.

Careful, Grizfan, PR & Titleist will want statistics. They don't believe in perceptions.

 

[WaGriz4life]

Player,

I don't want to get into a pissing match with you. I understand your point of view but I wholeheartedly disagree. We UofM fans like to think we aren't Miami, OSU, or USC or even Penn State. The fact is that we are. There has been a lot of unholy crap that has gone on in the program and around the program since the early 90's that has been ignored. Was or is it a conspiracy to ignore wrong doings by a lot of people? No probably not, but we sure as heck like those at Penn State didn't want to upset the apple cart. That is win at all costs. I and a lot of other people in Missoula turned our heads and allowed football players and other athletes to escape punishment for the fear of hurting the teams chances to win. There are a lot of good people within the Athletic Department and football program, and while their intentions were good and grand they made the decisions to ignore information or not pursue information they had because it would upset the apple cart.

I know we want to support those players to the nth degree. To make sure they get the 'justice' they 'deserve.' That is what is perverse. They don't deserve justice. Kemp and Johnson put themselves in position to have their destiny taken out of their own hands. That simple.

One of the biggest loads of crap I have ever read. Stay in Idaho. You know absolutely nothing about the Griz Football program. There has NEVER been a win-at-all-costs mentality. We did it the right way, and no one could beat us. That is hard for some of you to accept.

 

[Lady Fan of the Griz]

There are many reasons Gee shouldn't get the job one of which is she doesn't understand the simple concept of confidentiality; nor was she wise enough to know if she was going to share confidential matters with her significant other she shouldn't do it in writing let alone email. It makes one question her competency.

Having witnessed Kemp's behavior first hand at the Griz-Cat game last fall it's not all that surprising he has done something to get himself in hot water with the coaches.

 

[Noches de Passion]

Player,

I don't want to get into a pissing match with you. I understand your point of view but I wholeheartedly disagree. We UofM fans like to think we aren't Miami, OSU, or USC or even Penn State. The fact is that we are. There has been a lot of unholy crap that has gone on in the program and around the program since the early 90's that has been ignored. Was or is it a conspiracy to ignore wrong doings by a lot of people? No probably not, but we sure as heck like those at Penn State didn't want to upset the apple cart. That is win at all costs. I and a lot of other people in Missoula turned our heads and allowed football players and other athletes to escape punishment for the fear of hurting the teams chances to win. There are a lot of good people within the Athletic Department and football program, and while their intentions were good and grand they made the decisions to ignore information or not pursue information they had because it would upset the apple cart.

I know we want to support those players to the nth degree. To make sure they get the 'justice' they 'deserve.' That is what is perverse. They don't deserve justice. Kemp and Johnson put themselves in position to have their destiny taken out of their own hands. That simple.

One of the biggest loads of crap I have ever read. Stay in Idaho. You know absolutely nothing about the Griz Football program. There has NEVER been a win-at-all-costs mentality. We did it the right way, and no one could beat us. That is hard for some of you to accept.

Never is a strong word. That would preclude any instance at all of that mentality existing at UM. So why is the NCAA, the DOJ, and the DOE invesitgating the program? Is it all part of a big conspiracy?

 

[PlayerRep]

Player,

I don't want to get into a pissing match with you. I understand your point of view but I wholeheartedly disagree. We UofM fans like to think we aren't Miami, OSU, or USC or even Penn State. The fact is that we are. There has been a lot of unholy crap that has gone on in the program and around the program since the early 90's that has been ignored. Was or is it a conspiracy to ignore wrong doings by a lot of people? No probably not, but we sure as heck like those at Penn State didn't want to upset the apple cart. That is win at all costs. I and a lot of other people in Missoula turned our heads and allowed football players and other athletes to escape punishment for the fear of hurting the teams chances to win. There are a lot of good people within the Athletic Department and football program, and while their intentions were good and grand they made the decisions to ignore information or not pursue information they had because it would upset the apple cart.

I know we want to support those players to the nth degree. To make sure they get the 'justice' they 'deserve.' That is what is perverse. They don't deserve justice. Kemp and Johnson put themselves in position to have their destiny taken out of their own hands. That simple.

I don't know what may have occurred in the 90's. I'm not sure your post answers the question about win-at-all costs. Who was looking the other way? Was it coaches/administrators? If so, are you saying that was a win-at-all-cost attitude? Bobby Hauck was a tough disciplinarian. I would guess that he may be the toughest disciplinarian that UM ever had. He was tough on players and discipline. He liked to win, but he sure didn't look the other way with players. To the contrary, he kicked their asses and often kicked players off the team.
Pflu wasn't as tough as Hauck, but he didn't look the other way either. If you think there were fans who looked the other way, I suppose maybe some did. But I can't imagine they influenced the coaches/administrators to look the other way.

Virtually every college kid in America, including athletes, have parties at their house. I disagree that having a party is putting themselves in position to have their destiny taken out of their hands. Police, occasionally, will over-react to a situation. I think you're putting the blame on the wrong party. The players were vindicated, by having the more serious charges dropped, and pleading nolo to disorderly conduct (which is essentially a loud party). Hardly a serious crime.

I'm curious. What incidents involving football players, starting in 2000, do you think people looked the other way on?

 

[Skookum-Jim]

Player,

I don't want to get into a pissing match with you. I understand your point of view but I wholeheartedly disagree. We UofM fans like to think we aren't Miami, OSU, or USC or even Penn State. The fact is that we are. There has been a lot of unholy crap that has gone on in the program and around the program since the early 90's that has been ignored. Was or is it a conspiracy to ignore wrong doings by a lot of people? No probably not, but we sure as heck like those at Penn State didn't want to upset the apple cart. That is win at all costs. I and a lot of other people in Missoula turned our heads and allowed football players and other athletes to escape punishment for the fear of hurting the teams chances to win. There are a lot of good people within the Athletic Department and football program, and while their intentions were good and grand they made the decisions to ignore information or not pursue information they had because it would upset the apple cart.

I know we want to support those players to the nth degree. To make sure they get the 'justice' they 'deserve.' That is what is perverse. They don't deserve justice. Kemp and Johnson put themselves in position to have their destiny taken out of their own hands. That simple.

I don't know what may have occurred in the 90's. I'm not sure your post answers the question about win-at-all costs. Who was looking the other way? Was it coaches/administrators? If so, are you saying that was a win-at-all-cost attitude? Bobby Hauck was a tough disciplinarian. I would guess that he may be the toughest disciplinarian that UM ever had. He was tough on players and discipline. He liked to win, but he sure didn't look the other way with players. To the contrary, he kicked their asses and often kicked players off the team.
Pflu wasn't as tough as Hauck, but he didn't look the other way either. If you think there were fans who looked the other way, I suppose maybe some did. But I can't imagine they influenced the coaches/administrators to look the other way.

Virtually every college kid in America, including athletes, have parties at their house. I disagree that having a party is putting themselves in position to have their destiny taken out of their hands. Police, occasionally, will over-react to a situation. I think you're putting the blame on the wrong party. The players were vindicated, by having the more serious charges dropped, and pleading nolo to disorderly conduct (which is essentially a loud party). Hardly a serious crime.

I'm curious. What incidents involving football players, starting in 2000, do you think people looked the other way on?

Maybe bringing in players with prior problems with the law at other places. It's hard to pinpoint it exactly, you can always make excuses but we've brought in some characters the last few years.

 

[Grizfan-24]

Player,

I don't want to get into a pissing match with you. I understand your point of view but I wholeheartedly disagree. We UofM fans like to think we aren't Miami, OSU, or USC or even Penn State. The fact is that we are. There has been a lot of unholy crap that has gone on in the program and around the program since the early 90's that has been ignored. Was or is it a conspiracy to ignore wrong doings by a lot of people? No probably not, but we sure as heck like those at Penn State didn't want to upset the apple cart. That is win at all costs. I and a lot of other people in Missoula turned our heads and allowed football players and other athletes to escape punishment for the fear of hurting the teams chances to win. There are a lot of good people within the Athletic Department and football program, and while their intentions were good and grand they made the decisions to ignore information or not pursue information they had because it would upset the apple cart.

I know we want to support those players to the nth degree. To make sure they get the 'justice' they 'deserve.' That is what is perverse. They don't deserve justice. Kemp and Johnson put themselves in position to have their destiny taken out of their own hands. That simple.

One of the biggest loads of crap I have ever read. Stay in Idaho. You know absolutely nothing about the Griz Football program. There has NEVER been a win-at-all-costs mentality. We did it the right way, and no one could beat us. That is hard for some of you to accept.

Look you can believe what you want. Heck you don't have to agree with me. I am not going to brow beat you or anyone else into my stepping over to my point of view. I wouldn't have said it if I didn't know information hadn't been sat on that was damning to a player or two in my time in missoula by various people in and outside of the program. That is why I said back into the 90's. Those players are long gone from the program, and no I am not in Missoula anymore. Shouldn't matter. You might not call that win at all costs, but it sure is something that is less than ideal considering the current environment.

 

[tnt]

I'm curious. What incidents involving football players, starting in 2000, do you think people looked the other way on?

I'm not sure look the other way on is quite the way to explain a double standard. But I'll repeat again: just to equal the football teams antics of the last 2 years, there would have to have been 140 rape confessions, 820 rape complaints , 600 DUI convictions, and close to 500 assaults by the rest of the student body.

Had the those number been reached there would have been more than a few Missoulian articles not to mention firings.

 

[BWahlberg]

I'm curious. What incidents involving football players, starting in 2000, do you think people looked the other way on?

I'm not sure look the other way on is quite the way to explain a double standard. But I'll repeat again: just to equal the football teams antics of the last 2 years, there would have to have been 140 rape confessions, 820 rape complaints , 600 DUI convictions, and close to 500 assaults by the rest of the student body.

Had the those number been reached there would have been more than a few Missoulian articles not to mention firings.

What are you basing that on, accusations, arrests, or convictions? What count did you use for the team, did you account for additions and losses of players over the 2 years?

Just wondering...

 

[grizindabox]

I'm curious. What incidents involving football players, starting in 2000, do you think people looked the other way on?

I'm not sure look the other way on is quite the way to explain a double standard. But I'll repeat again: just to equal the football teams antics of the last 2 years, there would have to have been 140 rape confessions, 820 rape complaints , 600 DUI convictions, and close to 500 assaults by the rest of the student body.

Had the those number been reached there would have been more than a few Missoulian articles not to mention firings.

I thought football players, and all athletes are part of the student body! How about we compare the football team to the science club, the young republicans, or the pre-religious studies group?

 

[tnt]

What are you basing that on, accusations, arrests, or convictions? What count did you use for the team, did you account for additions and losses of players over the 2 years?

Just wondering...

Doesn't much matter although I made it pretty easy. Just take (0.X times 14,000) So which ever it is you want to do, say rape accusations (leading to investigations) (.08) (14,000) = 1120. or Sexual assault leading to expulsion (.03) (14000) = 420 (doesn't matter which standard preponderance or most likley)

Additions or losses to the team would be roughly at the same rate as the rest of the student body. I actually gave the team a bit of an advantage (I'm fan after all) by making them 100 and the Student Body 14,000. It would actually make the team look worse to use the actual enrollment numbers.

 

[grizindabox]

What are you basing that on, accusations, arrests, or convictions? What count did you use for the team, did you account for additions and losses of players over the 2 years?

Just wondering...

Doesn't much matter although I made it pretty easy. Just take (0.X times 14,000) So which ever it is you want to do, say rape accusations (leading to investigations) (.08) (14,000) = 1120. or Sexual assault leading to expulsion (.03) (14000) = 420 (doesn't matter which standard preponderance or most likley)

Additions or losses to the team would be roughly at the same rate as the rest of the student body. I actually gave the team a bit of an advantage (I'm fan after all) by making them 100 and the Student Body 14,000. It would actually make the team look worse to use the actual enrollment numbers.

Like I always say, any ass can get the numbers to back up his argument.....of course this doesn't mean you tnt! :roll:

 

[tnt]

Like I always say, any ass can get the numbers to back up his argument.....of course this doesn't mean you tnt! :roll:

Between PR and Titless, and their demand for numbers, I'm tired of the denial. It doesn't help.

 

[BWahlberg]

What are you basing that on, accusations, arrests, or convictions? What count did you use for the team, did you account for additions and losses of players over the 2 years?

Just wondering...

Doesn't much matter although I made it pretty easy. Just take (0.X times 14,000) So which ever it is you want to do, say rape accusations (leading to investigations) (.08) (14,000) = 1120. or Sexual assault leading to expulsion (.03) (14000) = 420 (doesn't matter which standard preponderance or most likley)

Additions or losses to the team would be roughly at the same rate as the rest of the student body. I actually gave the team a bit of an advantage (I'm fan after all) by making them 100 and the Student Body 14,000. It would actually make the team look worse to use the actual enrollment numbers.

In the latest student safety booklet they list arrests/occurances on campus and student court incidents from 2010, this consisted of approximately 7.65% of the student body (the overwhemling majority being student court on drug or alcohol hearing). The 2011 team roster size I believe is 85 and of those on the roster there were 5 arrests (Montana, Tru, Kemp, Donaldson, Maus) plus I believe 2 DUIs (Duncan and Middleton) so 7/85 = 8.23%.

That's suuuuper blunt on my side. First of all I don't know about any athlete student court hearings other than what's been rumored on here. Second the counts against the student body are on campus only, so as I understand it if a student were, say, arrested for a DUI on Higgins Ave it wouldn't be in this report. Of course this report from the UM also doesn't list allegations or investigations that led nowhere.

I'd say both numbers are pretty low, but they're marginally comparable.

Of course the drilled down issue is the more serious offenses such as Donaldson's and can/should that even be compared against a student court alcohol hearing as comparable? Probably not... just goes to show numbers can be skewed in any way to fit when you've got something as wide open as this.

 

[tnt]

http://umt.edu/publicsafety/docs/2011_Public_Safety_Booklet.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If we are reading the same document..... you are way high.

We simply have got to do what it takes to keep the integrity of the program. W/L irrespective.

 

[zirge]

I must be in the minority here, but I don't see them as being hung out to dry. I see them as young men who for one reason or another have stepped across the big white line in the sand. They have violated one rule or another. Is it tweets, being in the wrong place, or whatever their misdeed is their actions have put them there. One easy way to make sure that Kemp or Johnson or anyone else for that matter isn't on the political crap list is not do the stuff they aren't supposed to do in the first place.

This isn't Gee's, Engstroms or someone elses misdoings that put them there. Lets not forget that. I think we do because it seems that we all want to do what Penn State and other colleges have done for decades, which is not holding people accountable for their behavior. Even if Kemp and Johnson didn't do what they were accused of, they and they alone made some questionable decision making to put themselves there. They made their own bed.

I am sympathetic to their plight and they both should get their ability to present their case, but not at the expense of brushing stuff under the rug anymore. Like it or not, this is not the climate for patience and prudence. They and others have been crossing that white line entirely too often and faced little or no punishment for those misdeeds. So if that means for the time being Kemp, Johnson and others are shown the door for incredibly poor judgement than that is how it needs to be for a while. There cannot be stink attached to this program from here on out or the political winds will make sure the program will ensure they are given the death penalty and play in front of sparse crowds and no scholarships.

This isn't about wins and losses. This isn't about starting quarterbacks, the football program or some political gambit. All about doing things the right way and with a clear white line that these players know not to cross.

I agree

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

I'm with you guys too, for whatever it's worth...

And that doesn't mean I'm passing any kind of judgment on JJ or Kemp. I don't even know what Kemp's "team rules violation" was, and there are legitimate questions about whether JJ's situation was handled in a way that didn't violate his due process rights. Both of them are entitled to their day in...not "court," but they're entitled to whatever process their respective situations allow them. But if, after exhausting that process, the result is that they're no longer members of the Griz football team, then that's the way it is, and it's the right result. The players need to realize that the environment at UM is changing, and they have to behave accordingly.

the environment is changing everywhere.......accountability is finally coming of age.....still in it's rudimentary stages but at least the train has left the station.