Wouldn’t that also be his buddy’s dad?
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It happenin
- Thread starter HelenaHandBasket
- Start date
Matt Brown is the best insider when it comes to the college athletics business world
HelenaHandBasket
Well-known member
Well, he posted that yesterday.
Green Eeyore
New member
Sac had 23,000+ for the davis game last time they hosted.
Don't know what to tell you. He posted that in the evening too. Perhaps they just declared their intent to the conference office that they're remaining in the Big Sky? He apparently had some kind of information though
They will sit on their hands, except maybe the MSU lady Pres who is a winner.
Hey griz fans, just wanted to add a few thoughts from a dirty Vandal, as we've been-there-done-that. There isn't a chance in hell that we move up again and our rivalry is awesome, so of course I'm biased and don't want to see you go.
First and most importantly, you are wildly over-resourced at the FCS level. You routinely get 9 home games and sometimes get 11, which has a profound effect on your revenue. Ticket sales, licensing, and donations are driven by the number of home games. In FBS, you'll be lucky to get 7 home games and that number will be capped. It's likely (IMHO) that your revenue will be flat or even drop while your expenses will increase dramatically.
Second, and this isn't a slight on your program, but you are going to lose a lot more games. Your W/L percentage will drop, and that will hurt your revenue and recruiting.
Last, your record against FBS teams is not good when you take into consideration factors like covid, beating a historically bad Idaho program, and teams that ended up dropping football because they were so bad. Granted we FCS teams are not supposed to be beating FBS teams on the road, but let's not act like this is historically a FBS giant killer. Anyway, see ya next season!
First and most importantly, you are wildly over-resourced at the FCS level. You routinely get 9 home games and sometimes get 11, which has a profound effect on your revenue. Ticket sales, licensing, and donations are driven by the number of home games. In FBS, you'll be lucky to get 7 home games and that number will be capped. It's likely (IMHO) that your revenue will be flat or even drop while your expenses will increase dramatically.
Second, and this isn't a slight on your program, but you are going to lose a lot more games. Your W/L percentage will drop, and that will hurt your revenue and recruiting.
Last, your record against FBS teams is not good when you take into consideration factors like covid, beating a historically bad Idaho program, and teams that ended up dropping football because they were so bad. Granted we FCS teams are not supposed to be beating FBS teams on the road, but let's not act like this is historically a FBS giant killer. Anyway, see ya next season!
Hey griz fans, just wanted to add a few thoughts from a dirty Vandal, as we've been-there-done-that. There isn't a chance in hell that we move up again and our rivalry is awesome, so of course I'm biased and don't want to see you go.
First and most importantly, you are wildly over-resourced at the FCS level. You routinely get 9 home games and sometimes get 11, which has a profound effect on your revenue. Ticket sales, licensing, and donations are driven by the number of home games. In FBS, you'll be lucky to get 7 home games and that number will be capped. It's likely (IMHO) that your revenue will be flat or even drop while your expenses will increase dramatically.
Second, and this isn't a slight on your program, but you are going to lose a lot more games. Your W/L percentage will drop, and that will hurt your revenue and recruiting.
Last, your record against FBS teams is not good when you take into consideration factors like covid, beating a historically bad Idaho program, and teams that ended up dropping football because they were so bad. Granted we FCS teams are not supposed to be beating FBS teams on the road, but let's not act like this is historically a FBS giant killer. Anyway, see ya next season!
I honestly think that *if* the Montana schools got an invite, my hope is that Idaho would get one too. Part of the reason Idaho struggled so much at the FBS level is that their only regional rival in Boise State left them in the dust. Then Idaho was left to float out in the ocean and play in the Sun Belt all the way across the country, then when Idaho was booted from the Sun Belt and left without a home, that was never sustainable.
Second, the Montana schools likely wouldn't be as dominant in the Mountain West, but I do believe that every game in the conference would be competitive. Montana had a 17-12 loss to Wyoming in 2014. Montana State beat New Mexico (should have been by more). Idaho just took care of Wyoming. Idaho beat Nevada 33-6 in 2023. Sac State beat Colorado State 41-10 in 2022. Weber State beat Utah State 35-7 in 2022. EWU beat UNLV 35-33 in 2021. Without Boise State, Colorado State, Fresno, and San Diego State, Wyoming becomes one of the better programs in the "new" Mountain West Conference (UNLV the outlier as they're having a historic two seasons in 2023 and 2024). According to Sagarin Ratings:
Rank | Team | Division
49 - UNLV - FBS
59 - South Dakota State - FCS
66 - North Dakota State - FCS
95 - Montana - FCS
100 - Montana State - FCS
103 - Air Force - FBS
107 - Wyoming - FBS
112 - Hawaii - FBS
114 - Utah State - FCS
116 - Idaho - FCS
124 - Nevada - FBS
133 - New Mexico - FBS
For all the reasons to not move up (funding), fear of better competition should not be that reason. If the above teams were in the Mountain West together, that would be an amazing conference to watch.
Get em had some great points there.
Also, we have not traditionally always had 9-10 home games. We usually get 6 a year and on a rare year we get 7. Next year is an absolute anomaly with 8. Even if you want to count playoff home games, with the bid process in the NCAA, most of our revenue for home playoff games goes to the NCAA. Our budget is planned around 6 home games a year.
I do not think we move up unless there is a clear idea that there will be a separate group of 5 playoff system which opens the door for home playoff games at that level.
Also, we have not traditionally always had 9-10 home games. We usually get 6 a year and on a rare year we get 7. Next year is an absolute anomaly with 8. Even if you want to count playoff home games, with the bid process in the NCAA, most of our revenue for home playoff games goes to the NCAA. Our budget is planned around 6 home games a year.
I do not think we move up unless there is a clear idea that there will be a separate group of 5 playoff system which opens the door for home playoff games at that level.
BrownBear9501
Well-known member
If we wait until an actual G5 playoff is established then it’s too late. A playoff system is coming for the G5…..the Griz need to be proactive in positioning themselves to be at that level when that playoff does come to fruition, not wait until after the fact.
A couple of things:
1) some of you are of the belief that one Montana school could move up and not the other. The BOR will NEVER allow that.
2) some of you apparently don’t understand scholarship numbers FCS VS FBS. The idea that Montana would not be able to compete in the MWC given the addition of 42 more scholarships is stupid. Where we will have issues is competing with NIL money.
1) some of you are of the belief that one Montana school could move up and not the other. The BOR will NEVER allow that.
2) some of you apparently don’t understand scholarship numbers FCS VS FBS. The idea that Montana would not be able to compete in the MWC given the addition of 42 more scholarships is stupid. Where we will have issues is competing with NIL money.
MissoulaMarinerFan
Well-known member
What realistically could the BOR do? Tell the legislature to withhold funding from an institution? I’m asking because I legitimately don’t know.
They can’t take the school’s accreditation away because the BOR doesn’t grant that. They merely okay what programs a school is supposed to offer.
They going to take away state funding?
Interesting conversations going on behind the scenes no doubt. As a long time Griz fan since the mid 60’s I’ve gone back and forth on the subject of “should we, should we not” try and make a run at FBS?
Many things will get shaken out over the coming weeks and months but ultimately the decision is not ours. It requires an invite to begin with. It pains me to say but I think we have misplaced opinion of our own importance. Let’s face it, we do not have the resources to even begin thinking about a move to FBS.
Last I checked the average athletic budget for the MWC was something like $48M. We would need to add another $20M just to be competitive.
We would need to fund an additional 25+ scholarships + add additional programs.
Our TV market doesn’t even begin to meet the criteria for a network to view us as a possible candidate.
Washington-Grizzly stadium may be the Mecca for FCS but it would need to add probably 20,000+ seats just to be competitive. And then fill those seats.
My best guess, and it’s just a guess, it would take an investment of at least $50,000,000 over the next 3 years to even begin to think about a move up.
We best be happy where we’re at for now. But who says we can’t dream?
Many things will get shaken out over the coming weeks and months but ultimately the decision is not ours. It requires an invite to begin with. It pains me to say but I think we have misplaced opinion of our own importance. Let’s face it, we do not have the resources to even begin thinking about a move to FBS.
Last I checked the average athletic budget for the MWC was something like $48M. We would need to add another $20M just to be competitive.
We would need to fund an additional 25+ scholarships + add additional programs.
Our TV market doesn’t even begin to meet the criteria for a network to view us as a possible candidate.
Washington-Grizzly stadium may be the Mecca for FCS but it would need to add probably 20,000+ seats just to be competitive. And then fill those seats.
My best guess, and it’s just a guess, it would take an investment of at least $50,000,000 over the next 3 years to even begin to think about a move up.
We best be happy where we’re at for now. But who says we can’t dream?
footballdood
Well-known member
This article I think makes a decent case for UC Davis. https://brobible.com/sports/article/nfl-source-denies-drake-ever-invited-super-bowl-halftime-show/
Apparently Davis has been hesitant to pursue FBS in the past.
Apparently Davis has been hesitant to pursue FBS in the past.
mthoopsfan
Well-known member
I agree. Plus increased football and basketball coaches' salaries and more coaches. Plus more sports. Plus increased coaches' salaries for other sports. Plus more recruiting budget. Plus more travel budget.
And would "average" athletic budget make us competitive?
Don't think we'd need that many more seats, nor could we fill them.
SactoHornetFan
Well-known member
Here the thing that you all probably don’t understand. You have to have a minimum of 16 sports sponsored. I know you and MSU are one away, but because at the moment the MWC is down to 7 full members with the threat of possibly a few more leaving, the need is now.
The only FCS schools out west that can plug and play immediately is Sac State, Poly and davis. We all have over 20 sports. Everyone keeps talking about our lack of an arena…well we have the ultimate trump card: The Golden1 Center.
Now, I think the combo of Sac/davis and UM/MSU would be a great foursome to approach the MWC, but you all need to add sports. I don’t know how your Title IX balances are, I do know that MSU needs to add at the very least softball for their 16th sport (and satisfy the MWC bylaw of either baseball and softball). But that would mean a facility. What would UM have to add?
And this doesn’t even get into the conversation of market size. Especially with this new community group led by a State Senator and Assemblywoman, we would be the second largest in the MWC and if the ultimate were to happen, the biggest in the Pac-12 (as this group is pushing). Never underestimate how big California is to have big programs.
The only FCS schools out west that can plug and play immediately is Sac State, Poly and davis. We all have over 20 sports. Everyone keeps talking about our lack of an arena…well we have the ultimate trump card: The Golden1 Center.
Now, I think the combo of Sac/davis and UM/MSU would be a great foursome to approach the MWC, but you all need to add sports. I don’t know how your Title IX balances are, I do know that MSU needs to add at the very least softball for their 16th sport (and satisfy the MWC bylaw of either baseball and softball). But that would mean a facility. What would UM have to add?
And this doesn’t even get into the conversation of market size. Especially with this new community group led by a State Senator and Assemblywoman, we would be the second largest in the MWC and if the ultimate were to happen, the biggest in the Pac-12 (as this group is pushing). Never underestimate how big California is to have big programs.
HelenaHandBasket
Well-known member
The reality of the matter is having to add a sport will not be a hurdle for either of the schools or the MWC during the process. UM/MSU could add a sport in plenty of time to meet any timeline.
This is laughable. Yes, costs would go up. Revenue (from multiple sources including television, marketing, ncaa basketball share, etc) would increase more.
The GRIZ already have attendance greater than the vast majority of G5 programs. They sell more season tickets than ucla. To suggest they'd need 20k more seats is ridiculous. They'd have more than most PAC teams and as many as Autzen. Simply asinine.
$50,000,000???? Are we trying to be Alabama or Notre Dame?
And the television market thing has been debunked so often it's not worth repeating. Size of markets doesn't matter. Eyes on sets matter.
Sac nearly had to host the bsc basketball tournament in a yoga studio because your facility holds 880 people.
Yes, you have a large television market. In which no one turns on a Sac game. Market size doesn't matter. Market SHARE matters.
UM would have zero difficulty adding sports to be compliant in 2 years. We already have the best facilities in the bsc, and our facilities would be at the top of the MWC beginning day one
Hoops watcher
Well-known member
So the MWC pockets 100 million plus and the first thing they can think of is building you guys an actual basketball facility? If you say so.....
