I know this may be blasphemous but…

[PTGrizzly]

The Cats lost Mellott for virtually all of three games this season. They went 3-0 and scored 116 total points.

Had the Cats had only the no. 3 qb and not Chambers, the Cats wouldn't have been 3-0. Good for the Cats, but a starting level qb is very important to winning against top competition. Both Cat QB's are starter level. I am surprised at how many Griz fans don't understand that.

Vigen saw what happened when his starter got hurt in the playoffs and went out and got a good backup. In fact, a backup good enough to be a starter.

Bobby saw what happened when his starter got hurt in the playoffs, went out and got a new starting QB, and decided the same backups he had were good enough.

One coach learned a lesson, the other one didn’t.

 

[mthoopsfan]

Had the Cats had only the no. 3 qb and not Chambers, the Cats wouldn't have been 3-0. Good for the Cats, but a starting level qb is very important to winning against top competition. Both Cat QB's are starter level. I am surprised at how many Griz fans don't understand that.

Vigen saw what happened when his starter got hurt in the playoffs and went out and got a good backup. In fact, a backup good enough to be a starter.

Bobby saw what happened when his starter got hurt in the playoffs, went out and got a new starting QB, and decided the same backups he had were good enough.

One coach learned a lesson, the other one didn’t.

Perhaps, but there may not have been good experienced qb's willing to transfer and backup or compete with Johnson.

 

[uofmman1122]

Had the Cats had only the no. 3 qb and not Chambers, the Cats wouldn't have been 3-0. Good for the Cats, but a starting level qb is very important to winning against top competition. Both Cat QB's are starter level. I am surprised at how many Griz fans don't understand that.

Vigen saw what happened when his starter got hurt in the playoffs and went out and got a good backup. In fact, a backup good enough to be a starter.

Bobby saw what happened when his starter got hurt in the playoffs, went out and got a new starting QB, and decided the same backups he had were good enough.

One coach learned a lesson, the other one didn’t.

Vigen had a personal relationship with the guy he brought in. Our staff tried to get another transfer last season to back up Johnson, but it didn't work out.

Turns out not many guys want to come in and be the backup.

The strategy of always trying to find transfers and not being able to develop in-house talent is fair game, though.

 

[PTGrizzly]

Vigen saw what happened when his starter got hurt in the playoffs and went out and got a good backup. In fact, a backup good enough to be a starter.

Bobby saw what happened when his starter got hurt in the playoffs, went out and got a new starting QB, and decided the same backups he had were good enough.

One coach learned a lesson, the other one didn’t.

Perhaps, but there may not have been good experienced qb's willing to transfer and backup or compete with Johnson.

Oh I completely agree that most QB’s aren’t going to want to transfer to be the backup. But perhaps in year 5 of Hauck being here, he should have a HS recruit that can play the position worth a damn. Relying on a transfer year after year is not a sustainable approach if you want to be a top team in the FCS. The QB recruiting out of HS has been less than great so far.

 

[PTGrizzly]

Vigen saw what happened when his starter got hurt in the playoffs and went out and got a good backup. In fact, a backup good enough to be a starter.

Bobby saw what happened when his starter got hurt in the playoffs, went out and got a new starting QB, and decided the same backups he had were good enough.

One coach learned a lesson, the other one didn’t.

Vigen had a personal relationship with the guy he brought in. Our staff tried to get another transfer last season to back up Johnson, but it didn't work out.

Turns out not many guys want to come in and be the backup.

The strategy of always trying to find transfers and not being able to develop in-house talent is fair game, though.

Agree on all counts.

 

[catgrizfan]

Tommy wasn't durable last season. Luck of the draw. One wrong twist and IW loses by 50+. People kid themselves when they beat their chests about how great their teams are...while QB1 is healthy. Name an NFL team in the top tier who would still be in the top tier if QB1 went down. I'll wait.

49ers, cowboys, commanders

So you believe each of these teams would win their division if they didn't have their starting QB?

 

[catgrizfan]

Tommy wasn't durable last season. Luck of the draw. One wrong twist and IW loses by 50+. People kid themselves when they beat their chests about how great their teams are...while QB1 is healthy. Name an NFL team in the top tier who would still be in the top tier if QB1 went down. I'll wait.

The Cats lost Mellott for virtually all of three games this season. They went 3-0 and scored 116 total points.

This is where I believe the Cats have done a great job. They have a backup QB who is arguably better than their starter (if Tommy was an out-of-state kid, Chambers would be starting). In their +1 QB run system, they realized they needed someone else. It is much easier to replace a running QB with another running QB than it is to replace a true QB 1 who can do it all (Johnson). I think the Cats have played the analytics game right at the FCS level. Good to great passing QB's are snapped up by the FBS. They mitigate risk of injury to a QB with a plug and play running style. As long as there is a threat of a long pass play, it keeps the defense honest.

 

[catgrizfan]

Tommy wasn't durable last season. Luck of the draw. One wrong twist and IW loses by 50+. People kid themselves when they beat their chests about how great their teams are...while QB1 is healthy. Name an NFL team in the top tier who would still be in the top tier if QB1 went down. I'll wait.

The Cats lost Mellott for virtually all of three games this season. They went 3-0 and scored 116 total points.

They certainly set themselves up for success with Chambers, but having two legitimate starters in the QB room is unusual. If the Cats had to use QB3 (who I would argue is closer to the ability level of most backup QB's, their chances of winning against top competition goes down dramatically, imo.

 

[Lord Vigo]

The Cats lost Mellott for virtually all of three games this season. They went 3-0 and scored 116 total points.

They certainly set themselves up for success with Chambers, but having two legitimate starters in the QB room is unusual. If the Cats had to use QB3 (who I would argue is closer to the ability level of most backup QB's, their chances of winning against top competition goes down dramatically, imo.

But that's the point. If a team has championship aspirations, they need to build depth at the most important position.

I understand that Chambers is a uniquely good backup. I'm not saying that any and every team could/should have that exact situation. I only brought it up because you said that Cat fans wouldn't be so confident if Tommy went down. But the fact is, he did and they were prepared. Is part of that luck, in that Vigen was able to convince a starter-level guy to come to MSU as a backup? Sure. But a bigger part is preparedness and diligence. They knew that the way our QB's play, you HAVE to have a capable backup and they worked hard to address it.

In UM's case, the precipitous drop-off without Johnson shouldn't be acceptable. I don't think the fan conclusion should be "they tried and it just didn't come together."

 

[catgrizfan]

They certainly set themselves up for success with Chambers, but having two legitimate starters in the QB room is unusual. If the Cats had to use QB3 (who I would argue is closer to the ability level of most backup QB's, their chances of winning against top competition goes down dramatically, imo.

But that's the point. If a team has championship aspirations, they need to build depth at the most important position.

I understand that Chambers is a uniquely good backup. I'm not saying that any and every team could/should have that exact situation. I only brought it up because you said that Cat fans wouldn't be so confident if Tommy went down. But the fact is, he did and they were prepared. Is part of that luck, in that Vigen was able to convince a starter-level guy to come to MSU as a backup? Sure. But a bigger part is preparedness and diligence. They knew that the way our QB's play, you HAVE to have a capable backup and they worked hard to address it.

In UM's case, the precipitous drop-off without Johnson shouldn't be acceptable. I don't think the fan conclusion should be "they tried and it just didn't come together."

I cannot disagree with anything you said. They did have a QB plan based on their system and is the reason why they are in the semi's. I think things are a bit trickier when taking offensive systems into account. The Cats' system could be run by a running back who throws a decent ball. A lot easier to find guys like that than more traditional QB's who have to make more than one read and throw 50% of offensive plays. Good on the Cats for adopting an offense tailored to the players on their roster...and one that substantially decreases the chances of the QB's making mistakes (turning the ball over). That type of risk mitigation, especially at the FCS level where we don't often see top talent, is a great way to set a team up for success.

 

[uofmman1122]

49ers, cowboys, commanders

So you believe each of these teams would win their division if they didn't have their starting QB?

The Niners are gonna win the Super Bowl with their 3rd-string QB.

 

[mthoopsfan]

They certainly set themselves up for success with Chambers, but having two legitimate starters in the QB room is unusual. If the Cats had to use QB3 (who I would argue is closer to the ability level of most backup QB's, their chances of winning against top competition goes down dramatically, imo.

But that's the point. If a team has championship aspirations, they need to build depth at the most important position.

I understand that Chambers is a uniquely good backup. I'm not saying that any and every team could/should have that exact situation. I only brought it up because you said that Cat fans wouldn't be so confident if Tommy went down. But the fact is, he did and they were prepared. Is part of that luck, in that Vigen was able to convince a starter-level guy to come to MSU as a backup? Sure. But a bigger part is preparedness and diligence. They knew that the way our QB's play, you HAVE to have a capable backup and they worked hard to address it.

In UM's case, the precipitous drop-off without Johnson shouldn't be acceptable. I don't think the fan conclusion should be "they tried and it just didn't come together."

But I assume you recognize that losing Johnson changed and severely altered the season? Has anyone said it is okay not to have a good backup? How would you have solved that problem this?

 

[Westcoastfan]

Johnson sucked against Idaho State, Idaho, Sac and the Cats. He is only part of the reason the Griz were terrible this year.

 

[Lord Vigo]

But that's the point. If a team has championship aspirations, they need to build depth at the most important position.

I understand that Chambers is a uniquely good backup. I'm not saying that any and every team could/should have that exact situation. I only brought it up because you said that Cat fans wouldn't be so confident if Tommy went down. But the fact is, he did and they were prepared. Is part of that luck, in that Vigen was able to convince a starter-level guy to come to MSU as a backup? Sure. But a bigger part is preparedness and diligence. They knew that the way our QB's play, you HAVE to have a capable backup and they worked hard to address it.

In UM's case, the precipitous drop-off without Johnson shouldn't be acceptable. I don't think the fan conclusion should be "they tried and it just didn't come together."

I cannot disagree with anything you said. They did have a QB plan based on their system and is the reason why they are in the semi's. I think things are a bit trickier when taking offensive systems into account. The Cats' system could be run by a running back who throws a decent ball. A lot easier to find guys like that than more traditional QB's who have to make more than one read and throw 50% of offensive plays. Good on the Cats for adopting an offense tailored to the players on their roster...and one that substantially decreases the chances of the QB's making mistakes (turning the ball over). That type of risk mitigation, especially at the FCS level where we don't often see top talent, is a great way to set a team up for success.

I hear that caveat, but I think we can agree that the Griz should be expected to have a better backup plan than what they had in Kris Brown.

 

[Lord Vigo]

But that's the point. If a team has championship aspirations, they need to build depth at the most important position.

I understand that Chambers is a uniquely good backup. I'm not saying that any and every team could/should have that exact situation. I only brought it up because you said that Cat fans wouldn't be so confident if Tommy went down. But the fact is, he did and they were prepared. Is part of that luck, in that Vigen was able to convince a starter-level guy to come to MSU as a backup? Sure. But a bigger part is preparedness and diligence. They knew that the way our QB's play, you HAVE to have a capable backup and they worked hard to address it.

In UM's case, the precipitous drop-off without Johnson shouldn't be acceptable. I don't think the fan conclusion should be "they tried and it just didn't come together."

But I assume you recognize that losing Johnson changed and severely altered the season? Has anyone said it is okay not to have a good backup? How would you have solved that problem this?

Yeah, I've been saying that for months. Johnson was overrated based on how he looked against paltry competition early in the season, but he was still vastly superior to the next best option. With him, the Griz probably win @SAC and @WEB, end up seeded higher, and probably survive longer in the playoffs before running into MSU, SDSU, or NDSU.

No one said it's ok not to have a good backup. The comment was made that Cat fans would be singing a different tune if they lost Tommy. Hence, I brought up Chambers.

As far as solving the problem, this was Hauck's 5th year with the program. It's unacceptable that he didn't have something better in development behind Johnson. But I certainly would have given Britt a look much sooner. It was pretty obviously that Brown didn't have it.

 

[mthoopsfan]

But I assume you recognize that losing Johnson changed and severely altered the season? Has anyone said it is okay not to have a good backup? How would you have solved that problem this?

Yeah, I've been saying that for months. Johnson was overrated based on how he looked against paltry competition early in the season, but he was still vastly superior to the next best option. With him, the Griz probably win @SAC and @WEB, end up seeded higher, and probably survive longer in the playoffs before running into MSU, SDSU, or NDSU.

No one said it's ok not to have a good backup. The comment was made that Cat fans would be singing a different tune if they lost Tommy. Hence, I brought up Chambers.

As far as solving the problem, this was Hauck's 5th year with the program. It's unacceptable that he didn't have something better in development behind Johnson. But I certainly would have given Britt a look much sooner. It was pretty obviously that Brown didn't have it.

Britt didn’t have it either.

 

[Lord Vigo]

Yeah, I've been saying that for months. Johnson was overrated based on how he looked against paltry competition early in the season, but he was still vastly superior to the next best option. With him, the Griz probably win @SAC and @WEB, end up seeded higher, and probably survive longer in the playoffs before running into MSU, SDSU, or NDSU.

No one said it's ok not to have a good backup. The comment was made that Cat fans would be singing a different tune if they lost Tommy. Hence, I brought up Chambers.

As far as solving the problem, this was Hauck's 5th year with the program. It's unacceptable that he didn't have something better in development behind Johnson. But I certainly would have given Britt a look much sooner. It was pretty obviously that Brown didn't have it.

Britt didn’t have it either.

He looks a lot more functional to me when I watched him play! And the stats support the eye test.

Britt: 30/44, 68%, 7.3 YPA, 323 yards, 3 TD, 3 INT, sacked twice, 39 rush attempts, 189 yards (4.8 YPC)

Brown: 37/66, 56%, 4.8 YPA, 319 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT, sacked 5 times, 23 rush attempts, 17 yards (0.7 YPC)

 

[mthoopsfan]

Britt didn’t have it either.

He looks a lot more functional to me when I watched him play! And the stats support the eye test.

Britt: 30/44, 68%, 7.3 YPA, 323 yards, 3 TD, 3 INT, sacked twice, 39 rush attempts, 189 yards (4.8 YPC)

Brown: 37/66, 56%, 4.8 YPA, 319 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT, sacked 5 times, 23 rush attempts, 17 yards (0.7 YPC)

I am not comparing Britt to Brown. I am talking about being able to a very good starting qb for the Grizz and winning big games. See 3d q against NDSU.

 

[catgrizfan]

So you believe each of these teams would win their division if they didn't have their starting QB?

The Niners are gonna win the Super Bowl with their 3rd-string QB.

There may be merit to this!

 

[AZGrizFan]

He looks a lot more functional to me when I watched him play! And the stats support the eye test.

Britt: 30/44, 68%, 7.3 YPA, 323 yards, 3 TD, 3 INT, sacked twice, 39 rush attempts, 189 yards (4.8 YPC)

Brown: 37/66, 56%, 4.8 YPA, 319 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT, sacked 5 times, 23 rush attempts, 17 yards (0.7 YPC)

I am not comparing Britt to Brown. I am talking about being able to a very good starting qb for the Grizz and winning big games. See 3d q against NDSU.

When you say “Britt didn’t have it either” it’s EXACTLY what you’re doing.