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I hope those 45 seconds were worth it Jordy

spokaneman said:
Buttegrizzle said:
He didn't go there expecting sex .
Click to expand...

Do you HONESTLY believe this to be true?... He does not have conversation with her for weeks

Then, the night after..., when drunk she blurts out a dumb comment HE initiates contact and sets up a "date"??...

All while nurturing a budding romance with a gal her REALLY cares for...

Supposedly he does not drink much, but that night he drank 4-6 beers in 45 min prior to his scheduled "date"...

How many times do YOU take off your watch if you are simply watching a movie at a "friends" house?...

'cmon - I KNOW people from Butte are smarter than that... Perhaps he did not rape her, but at least admit he knew that plans that night included sex....
Click to expand...

Not a doubt in my mind that he thought sex was in the offing and given her behaviour the night before and even up until where their stories diverged the night in question, he had every reason to believe it was a green light. I don't know what happened in that bedroom, but an idiot would think that sex wasn't on the minds of both involved.
 
I do find very interesting, as the trial has progressed, observing the behavior and demeanor of those who were the loudest and most adament concerning UM's "thug culture".

They've gone from essentially saying that UM athletes are thugs, rapists and -- what was tnt's classic quote -- something along the lines of "alcohol feuled predators" to saying, "Boy, those boys are bad because they want sex".

Fascinating study into their agenda-driven posts.
 
EverettGriz said:
I do find very interesting, as the trial has progressed, observing the behavior and demeanor of those who were the loudest and most adament concerning UM's "thug culture".

They've gone from essentially saying that UM athletes are thugs, rapists and -- what was tnt's classic quote -- something along the lines of "alcohol feuled predators" to saying, "Boy, those boys are bad because they want sex".

Fascinating study into their agenda-driven posts.
Click to expand...

Conversely for those who state with a straight face that "he did not go there expecting sex".... agenda driven indeed!!

My opinion has indeed swayed in the past 10 days.. do I think he is guilty of what he is accused of? Probably not, at least not to the degree that can be proven in court .. however he is not completely innocent in this endeavor either... his actions dictate that he should never be looked to as a leader and certainly not a role model as it takes men with higher moral character to fill those roles...

I honestly do think that the accuser truly believes that she was raped.. smearing her, her friends, roommates, family ect is completely unacceptable...

I do say this with a straight face... for the past decade +, these athletes were elevated to God like status and the UM admin seemed to look the other way at times of trouble. Fights, DUI's, tasered athletes, Drugs, and other accusations finally spilled over the dam to gain the attention of groups outside the sheltered home of Missoula... when this happened, the admin was forced to act and this appears to be the scapegoated action...

If there is anything learned from this it is that these athletes are not Gods... as many of you mentioned, they are Kids.. stupid at times but still college kids... students that are not immune from discipline when discipline is required... student who need to understand the utter privilege it is to wear the UM uniform and what is expected in return....
 
And every Griz fan agrees with you.


Where we disagree is that we believe that the vast, vast, vast, vast majority of student-athletes at Montana are indeed fantastic representatives of UM, and we take exception to those who falsely state otherwise, using inflamatory language and unfounded claims to further their agenda.
 
EverettGriz said:
I do find very interesting, as the trial has progressed, observing the behavior and demeanor of those who were the loudest and most adament concerning UM's "thug culture".

They've gone from essentially saying that UM athletes are thugs, rapists and -- what was tnt's classic quote -- something along the lines of "alcohol feuled predators" to saying, "Boy, those boys are bad because they want sex".

Fascinating study into their agenda-driven posts.
Click to expand...


Alcohol fueled predator was the term. I think some of you guys call it making game or minimize it further. he went looking for sex and he made sure to go where he could get/take it. Whether it rises to "rape" as most of us have been saying is the question. He is still pretty low in the character category. Too bad her didn't learn anything in all of his "Bible Study" What I find an interesting study is those that have figured out what a tragedy that JJ's of NSA sex menatilty is to both sides.
 
tnt said:
EverettGriz said:
I do find very interesting, as the trial has progressed, observing the behavior and demeanor of those who were the loudest and most adament concerning UM's "thug culture".

They've gone from essentially saying that UM athletes are thugs, rapists and -- what was tnt's classic quote -- something along the lines of "alcohol feuled predators" to saying, "Boy, those boys are bad because they want sex".

Fascinating study into their agenda-driven posts.
Click to expand...


Alcohol fueled predator was the term. I think some of you guys call it making game or minimize it further. he went looking for sex and he made sure to go where he could get/take it. Whether it rises to "rape" as most of us have been saying is the question. He is still pretty low in the character category. Too bad her didn't learn anything in all of his "Bible Study" What I find an interesting study is those that have figured out what a tragedy that JJ's of NSA sex menatilty is to both sides.
Click to expand...

Was she looking for sex when she said she would do him anytime the night before? You have to be a little more balanced to hide your agenda. Truly.
 
...so easy to judge when one persons past is open and fair game,and the other is not... obviously some know the character, past behavior and actions of BOTH sides. Mr. Johnson is being attacked and judged for his underaged drinking among other things, but the past behavior and actions of the alleged accuser can't be discussed or shown. I do not think smearing the alleged victims family or friends is acceptable, however some of you think it's been perfectly fine to do the same thing to Mr. Johnson, his friends and his family. Thank God this will be over soon.
 
yakgriz said:
...so easy to judge when one persons past is open and fair game,and the other is not... obviously some know the character, past behavior and actions of BOTH sides. Mr. Johnson is being attacked and judged for his underaged drinking among other things, but the past behavior and actions of the alleged accuser can't be discussed or shown. I do not think smearing the alleged victims family or friends is acceptable, however some of you think it's been perfectly fine to do the same thing to Mr. Johnson, his friends and his family. Thank God this will be over soon.
Click to expand...

This is so solidly stated and true.
 
Saying someone has low moral character because they drink and have sex means about 99% of the population of everywhere I have ever been, which I admit isn't everywhere, is lower than whale sh1t.
 
tnt said:
EverettGriz said:
I do find very interesting, as the trial has progressed, observing the behavior and demeanor of those who were the loudest and most adament concerning UM's "thug culture".

They've gone from essentially saying that UM athletes are thugs, rapists and -- what was tnt's classic quote -- something along the lines of "alcohol feuled predators" to saying, "Boy, those boys are bad because they want sex".

Fascinating study into their agenda-driven posts.
Click to expand...


Alcohol fueled predator was the term. I think some of you guys call it making game or minimize it further. he went looking for sex and he made sure to go where he could get/take it. Whether it rises to "rape" as most of us have been saying is the question. He is still pretty low in the character category. Too bad her didn't learn anything in all of his "Bible Study" What I find an interesting study is those that have figured out what a tragedy that JJ's of NSA sex menatilty is to both sides.
Click to expand...
So "low in character" = "alcohol fueled sexual predator"? Got it. So what would you call someone who makes an egregious claim that even the prosecution didn't even try to make? My guess would be "ego fueled self-righteous jerk". I'm sure you agree.
 
grizatwork said:
spokaneman said:
Buttegrizzle said:
He didn't go there expecting sex .
Click to expand...

Do you HONESTLY believe this to be true?... He does not have conversation with her for weeks

Then, the night after..., when drunk she blurts out a dumb comment HE initiates contact and sets up a "date"??...

All while nurturing a budding romance with a gal her REALLY cares for...

Supposedly he does not drink much, but that night he drank 4-6 beers in 45 min prior to his scheduled "date"...

How many times do YOU take off your watch if you are simply watching a movie at a "friends" house?...

'cmon - I KNOW people from Butte are smarter than that... Perhaps he did not rape her, but at least admit he knew that plans that night included sex....
Click to expand...

Not a doubt in my mind that he thought sex was in the offing and given her behaviour the night before and even up until where their stories diverged the night in question, he had every reason to believe it was a green light. I don't know what happened in that bedroom, but an idiot would think that sex wasn't on the minds of both involved.
Click to expand...

Expecting sex implies you know sex is going to happen. Hoping for sex, or knowing sex is a possibility is different. I agree, he knew sex was a possibility going over there that night and is probably the only reason he was there. Perhaps, after she took of her shirt, grabbed his crotch and asked if he had a condom. At that point, ok, maybe hew WAS expecting sex.

And the "4-5 beers in 45 minutes" was not JJs testimony, either in the original police report nor in court. More like over a period of hours. No one is contending he was hammered at the time.
 
GrizPony said:
Was she looking for sex when she said she would do him anytime the night before? You have to be a little more balanced to hide your agenda. Truly.
Click to expand...

Dunno, didn't hear that in the trial but even if it did happen, was what she got the next night what she looking for? The fact is the trial has proven clearly that the discussion 75 and I had months ago was the closest thing to truth on these boards. If the picture Paoli painted of a seriously disturbed woman with obvious problems before the "act" is true, then JJ who seriously pursuing a relationship with another going to that house that night was indeed predatory.

Balanced? What needs to be balanced? JJ screwed up his life and a lot of others for a quick bang. It was and is stupid. And no matter which "side" (that seems to be more important to one than the other) is right the damage is done and permanent.
 
GrizPony said:
tnt said:
EverettGriz said:
I do find very interesting, as the trial has progressed, observing the behavior and demeanor of those who were the loudest and most adament concerning UM's "thug culture".

They've gone from essentially saying that UM athletes are thugs, rapists and -- what was tnt's classic quote -- something along the lines of "alcohol feuled predators" to saying, "Boy, those boys are bad because they want sex".

Fascinating study into their agenda-driven posts.
Click to expand...


Alcohol fueled predator was the term. I think some of you guys call it making game or minimize it further. he went looking for sex and he made sure to go where he could get/take it. Whether it rises to "rape" as most of us have been saying is the question. He is still pretty low in the character category. Too bad her didn't learn anything in all of his "Bible Study" What I find an interesting study is those that have figured out what a tragedy that JJ's of NSA sex menatilty is to both sides.
Click to expand...

Was she looking for sex when she said she would do him anytime the night before? You have to be a little more balanced to hide your agenda. Truly.
Click to expand...

Honestly - it is sad that you cannot understand the difference between the actions of a girl who is drunk at the biggest party on campus and the same girl when she is completely sober.... A strong message as to why the drinking age is 21....
 
Fascinating!

So the girl gets a pass for being hammered, but Griz players do not, spokaneman?

Your illogic is showing.
 
tnt said:
If the picture Paoli painted of a seriously disturbed woman with obvious problems before the "act" is true, then JJ who seriously pursuing a relationship with another going to that house that night was indeed predatory.
Click to expand...

Even for the most ardent Griz fan... there is a lot to consider in the above statement....
 
spokaneman said:
tnt said:
If the picture Paoli painted of a seriously disturbed woman with obvious problems before the "act" is true, then JJ who seriously pursuing a relationship with another going to that house that night was indeed predatory.
Click to expand...

Even for the most ardent Griz fan... there is a lot to consider in the above statement....
Click to expand...


Yes.

What I have carefully considered is that you both have clear agendas which you lay out with inflamatory language, using unfounded examples of activities which didn't ocurr, and no amount of testimony will ever get you to alter your agenda, no matter how incorrect or illogical it is. (and it's both, by the way).
 
tnt said:
GrizPony said:
Was she looking for sex when she said she would do him anytime the night before? You have to be a little more balanced to hide your agenda. Truly.
Click to expand...

Dunno, didn't hear that in the trial but even if it did happen, was what she got the next night what she looking for? The fact is the trial has proven clearly that the discussion 75 and I had months ago was the closest thing to truth on these boards. If the picture Paoli painted of a seriously disturbed woman with obvious problems before the "act" is true, then JJ who seriously pursuing a relationship with another going to that house that night was indeed predatory.

Balanced? What needs to be balanced? JJ screwed up his life and a lot of others for a quick bang. It was and is stupid. And no matter which "side" (that seems to be more important to one than the other) is right the damage is done and permanent.
Click to expand...

Your bias is showing sport. Maybe SHE screwed up both their lives. I don't know what happened in the room but I know she was caught in about twenty lies. JJ wasn't caught in one. Weird? She knew he was with another gal and still agreed to meet him in her bedroom. You act like you are a feminist but you are so condescendingly paternal that you think a woman can't want and initiate sex. She was "preyed" on? She was B-Dots former girlfriend. Do you think they had sex?
 
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