Griz to burn Counts Redshirt.

[Griziron]

Coach D said on the 10/2 radio show that Walden has a disc issue and is so valuable on special teams that they prefer not to use him at RB. Canada has had issues staying healthy so far in his career. Nguyen isn't a big guy and has taken some punishment so far this season. It seems that another running back will play at some point this year. If Counts is the next man up, do you bring him in now when you can control the number of reps he gets, or wait until you have to play him and take your chances?

 

[cclarkblues]

If you are going to burn it anyway (doesn't the EPA have something to say about burning redshirts?) then he could get some good experience in the Northern Colorado game.

 

[GrizDDS]

If the coaches feel that counts is the best guy to play a certain role on kickoff and punt protection, and nothing else, they will burn his redshirt. Coaches don't value redshirts nearly as much as fans do. Ohio State has 5 true Freshman playing special teams that haven't played one snap on defense or offense. This is not uncommon.

At that level they are all going to leave once their draft stock gets high enough anyway.

 

[GrizBacker04]

If the coaches feel that counts is the best guy to play a certain role on kickoff and punt protection, and nothing else, they will burn his redshirt. Coaches don't value redshirts nearly as much as fans do. Ohio State has 5 true Freshman playing special teams that haven't played one snap on defense or offense. This is not uncommon.

The difference though is Ohio State has 85 scholarship players while UM has 63. Much easier to use freshman on special teams and burn redshirts at the FBS level than it is at the FCS level. I am just not sure there is a giant need to have Counts play when I think most everyone can agree with the fact that UM has other options at running back.

 

[grizindabox]

If the coaches feel that counts is the best guy to play a certain role on kickoff and punt protection, and nothing else, they will burn his redshirt. Coaches don't value redshirts nearly as much as fans do. Ohio State has 5 true Freshman playing special teams that haven't played one snap on defense or offense. This is not uncommon.

The difference though is Ohio State has 85 scholarship players while UM has 63. Much easier to use freshman on special teams and burn redshirts at the FBS level than it is at the FCS level. I am just not sure there is a giant need to have Counts play when I think most everyone can agree with the fact that UM has other options at running back.

Wouldn't having less scholarship players mean it might be more necessary to play a true freshman? Also, the numbers are a little like comparing apples and oranges. FBS is allowed 85 scholarship players while FCS is allowed 63 full scholarships that can be divided, which certainly does not mean 63 players.

 

[kemajic]

Wasn't JJ's red shirt "burned" @ UNC too?
I guess i should say, didn't JJ see his first game snaps @ UNC in 2010?

JJ's redshirt was not burned; it was deferred to this year.

 

[PhxGriz]

He actually DID talk about Kirschner in Tuesday's presser. I beleive somebody posted the quote already.

Just seems to me we have enough RB's on the roster without wasting his RS halfway through the year.

I agree. Kirsch brings 2 years of experience playing, we can go with a mix of Pete/Jordan/Kirch/Walden - that's a good group.

I will be really upset if his RS is burned just for ST duty

Don't forget about me man. Pete/Jordan/Kirch/Walden/PhxGriz.

 

[GrizBacker04]

If the coaches feel that counts is the best guy to play a certain role on kickoff and punt protection, and nothing else, they will burn his redshirt. Coaches don't value redshirts nearly as much as fans do. Ohio State has 5 true Freshman playing special teams that haven't played one snap on defense or offense. This is not uncommon.

The difference though is Ohio State has 85 scholarship players while UM has 63. Much easier to use freshman on special teams and burn redshirts at the FBS level than it is at the FCS level. I am just not sure there is a giant need to have Counts play when I think most everyone can agree with the fact that UM has other options at running back.

Wouldn't having less scholarship players mean it might be more necessary to play a true freshman? Also, the numbers are a little like comparing apples and oranges. FBS is allowed 85 scholarship players while FCS is allowed 63 full scholarships that can be divided, which certainly does not mean 63 players.

You can also flip that and say that a scholarship player who is expected to be your main option at running back in the future is too valuable to burn a year of eligibility to play special teams. Great example of that would be Jordan Johnson (law trouble not included in this). Wouldn't it have been better had Johnson not played at all as a freshman, redshirted, then started as a redshirt freshman, giving him four full years to QB. Could the experience he gained from his few snaps a game at the end of the season been gained from spring practice the following year?

And yes, while it is 63 full scholarships that can be divided, a vast majority of those players are on full scholarship, especially out-of-state kids. Even at this level, the expectation is a full-ride. Would explain why so many good players in the past needed to walk on or rely on academic scholarships.

 

[grizindabox]

GrizBacker, but since a program can recruit more running backs next year, and more the following year, etc, who can really say that it is too valuable to pull the redshirt this year or that he would even be the best option at RB going forward? I am in the camp that you play the best guys, the guys you feel can help a team win now. If that means playing true freshman, then so be it.

 

[GrizBacker04]

If Counts gets meaningful carries at running back, say 5-10 per game or more, especially in short-yardage situations, then I am all for playing him right now. Especially if Moore is going to be out for an extended period of time as high ankle sprains can take time to heal. However, I am not in favor of burning his redshirt to play special teams. I don't feel that special teams have been a glaring area of weakness and the Griz should have enough depth where they don't need to play Counts. You're right, UM could certainly go out and get a better RB -- heck, Gavin Hagfors may prove to be better than Counts. But the coaching staff clearly feel they have a special back in Counts and that he is the RB of the future.

 

[zirge]

Has there been anything more than today's Missoulian story where Delaney saying they are considering burning Counts' redshirt season?

What more would you need?

http://missoulian.com/sports/college/montana/football/griz-put-their-best-claw-forward-for-n-colorado/article_073a2560-0d1b-11e2-9f0e-0019bb2963f4.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Peter Nguyen and Jordan Canada, who combined for 286 rushing yards against Eastern, will be the main men in Greeley. Delaney said 195-pound sophomore Brett Kirschner, who has four carries for 33 yards this season, will also figure in and that true freshman Joey Counts could be taken off redshirt.

“He’s a 227-, 228-pound guy who’s very similar to Dan,” Delaney said of Counts, who is from Mesa, Ariz. “He’s very strong and has good speed. We’re trying to redshirt him, but at the same time you have to do what you do to give yourself the best opportunity to win.”

you have to do what you do to give yourself the best opportunity to win.”

I wonder if this theory applies to coaching as well........?

 

[zirge]

We have Kirsh, Walden, Elder, and Butler all whom have used their RS... tough call but Counts has shown good raw talent, not sure if he's ready but had shown more consistant play in fall than Walden, Elder, and Butler did.

exactly.....all this talent.....if we burn Counts red shirt and still lose to No Colo..........hindsight will be brutal

 

[Uncle Si]

This just makes no sense to me. But there's a lot in the world I don't understand.

 

[AZFAN0929]

If Counts gets meaningful carries at running back, say 5-10 per game or more, especially in short-yardage situations, then I am all for playing him right now. Especially if Moore is going to be out for an extended period of time as high ankle sprains can take time to heal. However, I am not in favor of burning his redshirt to play special teams. I don't feel that special teams have been a glaring area of weakness and the Griz should have enough depth where they don't need to play Counts. You're right, UM could certainly go out and get a better RB -- heck, Gavin Hagfors may prove to be better than Counts. But the coaching staff clearly feel they have a special back in Counts and that he is the RB of the future.

Recruiting is recruiting, but most frshman redshirt their first year - good to familiarize themselves with the program, academics, and college life in general. Hagfors used his redshirt year correct? So, if he is ready this year play him..his talent may be debatable, but he has his freshman year/redshirt year under his belt which should be to his advantage. Correct? Is this too far off base?

 

[AZFAN0929]

We have Kirsh, Walden, Elder, and Butler all whom have used their RS... tough call but Counts has shown good raw talent, not sure if he's ready but had shown more consistant play in fall than Walden, Elder, and Butler did.

exactly.....all this talent.....if we burn Counts red shirt and still lose to No Colo..........hindsight will be brutal

If players could think out loud.............

 

[maroonandsilver]

He actually DID talk about Kirschner in Tuesday's presser. I beleive somebody posted the quote already.

Just seems to me we have enough RB's on the roster without wasting his RS halfway through the year.

I agree. Kirsch brings 2 years of experience playing, we can go with a mix of Pete/Jordan/Kirch/Walden - that's a good group.

I will be really upset if his RS is burned just for ST duty

Not to mention they're saying Moore's injury is a high ankle sprain which means he most likely will be back at some point this season.

High ankle sprains often take as much time as breaks to recover from.

 

[grizaremoregooder]

Hate to see these kids not redshirt. We have more than enough depth at RB to get through this game. Kemp could be back any day and that would be another option at running back.

 

[kemajic]

Clearly Mick believes he needs a strong inside runner and good blocker; the role that DM filled. Nguyen, Canada, Kemp, etc. all mentioned, do not fill that bill. If you can get a hand on Nguyen you can put him down. Mick must believe that Counts is the player that can fill that role. I have not seen Counts play, but I have no question about Mick's judgement on this; it's not like he doesn't know anything about coaching RBs.

Playing true freshmen does not burn their redshirt, it saves it. It remains available; it has been very handy for players like Tripp, Hilliard and many others that had injury problems later. It was handy for Jimmy Wilson. It will be very handy for JJ, whether here or elsewhere. Since his redshirt was saved and is being used this year, he will still have two years eligibility after this year when he is aquitted. Also, when you are limited to 63 full scholarships, it is most difficult to dedicate 5 scholarship years to every scholarship player; when you dedicate 4 rather than 5 to a player, that enables you to free up that scholarship a year earlier for recruiting. Facts Growler likes to overlook.

 

[GrizBacker04]

Again, if they give Counts carries and he plays a meaningful role on offense, then yes, play him. But why burn a year of eligibility if he is only going to be used in punt protection or kickoff returns? That seems to be a bit of waste and a role that Hagfors or Butler could fill.

If JJ had not have had his personal problems, would you rather have had last year been his first year of playing with three more full years of eligibility or last year been his second year of playing with two years remaining? Playing JJ at the end of 2010 was a waste of a year of eligibility.

And if a player gets hurt they can always apply for a medical redshirt season, which is what Tripp did.

 

[grizpaws]

Clearly Mick believes he needs a strong inside runner and good blocker; the role that DM filled. Nguyen, Canada, Kemp, etc. all mentioned, do not fill that bill. If you can get a hand on Nguyen you can put him down. Mick must believe that Counts is the player that can fill that role. I have not seen Counts play, but I have no question about Mick's judgement on this; it's not like he doesn't know anything about coaching RBs.

Playing true freshmen does not burn their redshirt, it saves it. It remains available; it has been very handy for players like Tripp, Hilliard and many others that had injury problems later. It was handy for Jimmy Wilson. It will be very handy for JJ, whether here or elsewhere. Since his redshirt was saved and is being used this year, he will still have two years eligibility after this year when he is aquitted. Also, when you are limited to 63 full scholarships, it is most difficult to dedicate 5 scholarship years to every scholarship player; when you dedicate 4 rather than 5 to a player, that enables you to free up that scholarship a year earlier for recruiting. Facts Growler likes to overlook.

+1