I hate these kind of "break up your post" things that people do, but I'll do it for this post because it's really long.
HighLineGRIZ said:
Yes, I do and here is why:
1. Pflu's Spread offense was a complex offense. Most of his players had never ran any kind of variation of the spread up to that point and he didn't have the personnel to run that offense effectively for a couple years. A Pro Style offenses are typically more simple and rely more on execution than gimicks or trying to take advantage of the defense. Most of our players are familiar with a Pro-style offense and it shouldn't take them long to make the transition.
Ok, most of Pflu's recruits almost exclusively ran the spread in high school, so I dunno where you're getting that. I also like how you condescendingly refer to Pflu's offense as one with "gimmicks". Play action, a staple of the pro-style, is technically a "gimmick". I don't see how you'd consider that type of misdirection "execution", but the misdirection on the zone read and reverses and zone blocking a "gimmick". Most of our players actually aren't familiar with the pro-style offense. Most of them didn't run it in high school, and most of them have been learning the much more complex and difficult college game in a zone read offense. Learning your position in college is much more difficult and demanding than learning it in high school, otherwise kids would come in and just straight up ball without any steep learning curve. Changing your offense halfway through college is one of the most difficult things you could possibly do to your players, especially a radical shift. The pro-style is much more timing and rhythm-based, and you don't pick that up over the summer.
HighLineGRIZ said:
2. The Head Coach and both of our Offensive Coordinators have strong backgrounds running Pro Style and very limited experience running a Spread. You wouldn't have an English teacher teach Math, they are more effective teaching something they know very well. Scott Gragg blocked for Jeff Garcia, while Garcia was running the 49ers Pro-style offense at a Pro Bowl level. Garcia was also a mobile and undersized QB. Gragg's experience with that should be an asset when implementing plays that'll work to JJ's strengths. Would you rather have our coaching staff game planning and making midgame adjustments with an offense they understand the ins and outs about or one that is fairly green to them?
This I actually don't disagree with, and it's something I've wrestled over in my head quite a bit. Like I said, if they can create an offense that works, I don't care what it is. I also have said many times that Pflu's offense was never going to be the same without him.
That said, most of the coaches have been here long enough to know the playbook, and have been teaching it for three years. Good coaches continue to innovate when faced with adversity. Don Read was a master innovator, and the test of a truly great coach, coordinator, or position coach is being able to adapt and continuously move forward. Saying "We can't run this offense, or even a similar offense, that we've been running for
three years, so let's scrap it and go back to what we were doing 10 years ago in a completely different situation and time", to me, is not the mark of a good coach.
Like I said, if this staff can't work with the strengths of our personnel and have to scrap the O just to feel comfortable, then I really hope this is the last year we have to put up with them.
HighLineGRIZ said:
3. Most of our OL personnel is made up of players who match more of what you look for in a Pro-Style offense. Our best linemen, Kistler, is talented enough to play the spread, but he will absolutely dominate in Pro-style offense at tackle. Poehls and even Oiland and Poole all are big tall guys who just physically are better suited for Pro. In a spread you typically want smaller, quicker linemen who can effectively zone block and get out in space on screens. If you watched some our larger linemen last year, they just weren't fast or quick enough to get out on some blocks. They still were a strength and were able to play to the spread effectively, but I think they will play better to an offense that will take advantage of their size and strength as a unit.
Here's Oregon's offensive line stats from last year:
LT 6-6, 292, R-Fr.
LG 6-5, 296, Sr.
C 6-3, 284, Soph.
RG 6-5, 305, Sr.
RT 6-6, 294, Soph.
Average: 6-5, 294lbs
Pretty damn big.
Griz average: 6-6, 308lbs (and we only got so high because we have one guy listed at 340)
Poehls and Kistler are big boys, but the other three starters and all the backups who will see considerable playing time aren't any bigger than Oregon's O-line. Size isn't the biggest issue, though. You can't just look at them and say "They're big, so they'll dominate." The footwork they've been taught nearly their entire college career has been tough to get down, but they have it, and now they're being asked to learn something completely different. This was the biggest reason why the 2010 line was so bad.
You also have no basis in saying any of them will "dominate". We haven't seen any of them play a different blocking scheme in college ball. Again, it's a huge stretch you and others are making here, and they certainly didn't look good trying to run it this spring.
HighLineGRIZ said:
4. Our skill position players, also, thing will benefit from the change. If you look at our depth chart, we have a lot of power type running backs, with Canada as our only real speedy "scat back". I like the thought of utilizing a Full Back and H-Back in our run game.
Stop saying they're going to "benefit", as if the scheme was the reason we sucked so much last year. 1. You don't know how they're going to react, and 2. Stop acting like there was even a problem with our run game last year. They were stellar. Given the circumstances, they hardly could have played better. It was the one awesome bright spot on offense. We averaged 235 yards rushing per game. I guarantee you a pro-style offense won't beat those numbers if we dive full on in next year.
Canada is our #1 back. Van is quick and shifty, and fits great into the zone-read. But don't forget that Dan Moore was also great in the zone read. Again, like I said, just because we brought in a FB, it doesn't mean the other players are going to just *click* and all the sudden be better in a completely different offense. History suggests they'll struggle.
HighLineGRIZ said:
5. I'll concede that JJ is basically your prototypical spread QB (Pflu's version anyways) and he's shown to excel in that setting, but there have been a lot of QBs who fit JJ's talent makeup that have been very successful. There are a lot of variations of this offense that cater to the strengths of mobile QBs.
Yes, let's talk about JJ.
In 2011 JJ led the team in rushing in
5 games. Put him in the offense you all seem to want, and that doesn't happen. Why? Because he's limited in his choices.
JJ has shown incredible ability at making great decisions in the hurry-up offense. He's the main reason it was so great at the end of 2011. The new offense takes those decisions away from him and puts them more in the coaches' hands, and isn't everyone clamoring for the coaches to get out of the players' way this year? :roll:
This is the biggest problem I have with the suggested offensive changes, and it completely revolves around JJ. Everyone here was so happy to have him back. He's going to save our season! He's going to win the Payton! We would have gone 11-0 last year with him! But now they want to take away the offense that let him shine. I simply don't understand that. I think he's a great QB, and he'll do good things in any offense, but he belongs in the zone read. That's where he has proven time and time again that he does the most damage. Taking away JJ's options is taking away the potential of the offense as a whole. Again, he didn't look amazing until they starting playing Pflu-ball in the last scrimmage.
HighLineGRIZ said:
6. Bottom line, my opinion is that the make up of the talent of our coaching staff and players will be able to better execute the Pro-style. If this wasn't the case, our staff wouldn't be making the switch.
Bottom line is that I haven't seen anything that suggests that's true at all, and lots of history of the contrary. It's ridiculous how the fanbase condemns the coaching staff and doesn't trust them on so many things, yet this is the one thing that will be different.
Even if I didn't thoroughly enjoy watching Pflu's offense as much as I did, I'd still say they were nuts to try to shoehorn a new one in on such short notice.
I'll be the first to say "I was wrong" if they come out and Bobby-ball App State to a blowout win, but I really don't want to be the guy that says "I told you so" when we look like we did all spring trying to do our best NDSU impersonation. :evil:
We'll all have to see how fall ball goes, though. I want a 12-0 season as much as the next Griz fan, and that's why I'm so concerned.
:egriz:
