Fbs/fcs football.

[SACCAT66]

Honest question... IF the griz were to move up. what schools (that is in the FBS right now) would you say you are close to in the ways of talent, and that you could be competitive with. Are you thinking schools like Colorado State? or Utah State? University of New Mexico?

Tough to say based on “right now” because 85 scholarships changes things, but probably not right away. After a few cycles, I think your list is pretty accurate. I don’t think we’d win the Big 10 every other year like every single Bizon fan says the Bizon would.

So, if it is these type teams, these are the Athletic budgets I found online (I am like Stugotz when it comes to reading the interwebs, so that it with a grain of salt)

UM Athletic Budget--$19 Million
Montana State Budget--19 Million

CSU Budget--- $54 Million

Utah State-- $32 Million

University of New Mexico-- $33 Million

If either the Cats or the griz want to move up, they will have to come up with a way to raise around 2 TIMES the amount they do now...

In all seriousness, is there an element of chicken/egg at play with those numbers?

Yes, there probably is.

 

[EverettGriz]

So, if it is these type teams, these are the Athletic budgets I found online (I am like Stugotz when it comes to reading the interwebs, so that it with a grain of salt)

UM Athletic Budget--$19 Million
Montana State Budget--19 Million

CSU Budget--- $54 Million

Utah State-- $32 Million

University of New Mexico-- $33 Million

If either the Cats or the griz want to move up, they will have to come up with a way to raise around 2 TIMES the amount they do now...

Ah Yes, there is the rub (as we discussed for the past 10 to 15 years on every "Move Up!" thread).

Then we start to list the potential sources...

Double ticket prices (oh wait, they're already at FBS prices).
Soak the students (oh wait, they're diminishing).
Money from Legislature (oh wait, until hell freezes over).
Donors increase giving (oh wait, you need HOW MUCH MORE?).

Then after much bitter bickering we set it aside and start a new "Move Up!" thread. Enjoy!

I think you've conveniently neglected to mention the actual revenue drivers at the fbs level, 82.

But sadly I guess that's the new normal in our society: say whatever you want as long as it corresponds with your viewpoint whether it's factual or not.

 

[Grizzlies1982]

So, if it is these type teams, these are the Athletic budgets I found online (I am like Stugotz when it comes to reading the interwebs, so that it with a grain of salt)

UM Athletic Budget--$19 Million
Montana State Budget--19 Million

CSU Budget--- $54 Million

Utah State-- $32 Million

University of New Mexico-- $33 Million

If either the Cats or the griz want to move up, they will have to come up with a way to raise around 2 TIMES the amount they do now...

Ah Yes, there is the rub (as we discussed for the past 10 to 15 years on every "Move Up!" thread).

Then we start to list the potential sources...

Double ticket prices (oh wait, they're already at FBS prices).
Soak the students (oh wait, they're diminishing).
Money from Legislature (oh wait, until hell freezes over).
Donors increase giving (oh wait, you need HOW MUCH MORE?).

Then after much bitter bickering we set it aside and start a new "Move Up!" thread. Enjoy!

I think you've conveniently neglected to mention the actual revenue drivers at the fbs level, 82.

But sadly I guess that's the new normal in our society: say whatever you want as long as it corresponds with your viewpoint whether it's factual or not.

Sheesh, sorry to all I offended!

Not trying to intentionally omit anything. Nor was it some attempt to push some non-factual info on eGriz (God forbid if that EVER happens!). I was just recapping the inevitable life line / flow of these damn threads. I believe this is Number 314 since I began looking at eGriz. They all seem to go down the exact same path. It is perhaps the most consistent thing on this site.

Presumably you're alluding to some TV dollars for FBS football as an item I forgot to list. That would certainly help. Mea Culpa. Though I don't think it is anywhere near the $13 million we'd need to match Utah St or New Mexico budgets. There just isn't SEC dollars to be had. There isn't even the Boise St dollars to be had, there is only WAC crumbs the big boys lost in the couch with their pocket change.

Again sorry to burst any bubbles. Carry on without me. I'll wait for "Move Up!" thread 315 before chiming in again with the facts, and just the facts. The money just isn't there to justify a move.

 

[grizindabox]

Presumably you're alluding to some TV dollars for FBS football as an item I forgot to list.

A fraction of what he meant...

 

[EverettGriz]

Sorry to jump on you 82. Didn't mean it as rough as it came out, so my apologies.

That said, I get tired of the "We're little ol' Montana; we can't afford anything" theory. It simply isn't borne out by the facts. The most recent data I could find for USU athletics is from 2017. it states that their direct institutional support was $8.21 million a year. That number is right in line with UM's and MSU's state money.

So the money at that level HAS to be coming from other places (conference money, NCAA basketball tournament revenue, TV revenue, bowl revenue, et al). The state is paying the same freight; it's just Montana doesn't have the FBS sources of income.

 

[Spanky2]

UM should have changed to FBS ten years ago. Now, that we are in the enrollment pickle, we are in no position to consider a change. We will be fortunate to maintain our FCS status.

 

[grizindabox]

UM should have changed to FBS ten years ago. Now, that we are in the enrollment pickle, we are in no position to consider a change. We will be fortunate to maintain our FCS status.

You do realize that enrollment doesn't dictate classification...

 

[AZGrizFan]

UM should have changed to FBS ten years ago. Now, that we are in the enrollment pickle, we are in no position to consider a change. We will be fortunate to maintain our FCS status.

You do realize that enrollment doesn't dictate classification...

:lol: :lol:

 

[behappp]

What has been the change in athletic budget numbers for Idaho? When they were a piss-ass FBS FB program and now they are a piss-ass FCS FB program. Not a perfect comparison to the MT schools I know but it still would be interesting to see.

 

[grizindabox]

What has been the change in athletic budget numbers for Idaho? When they were a piss-ass FBS FB program and now they are a piss-ass FCS FB program. Not a perfect comparison to the MT schools I know but it still would be interesting to see.

http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.org/fcs/sunbelt/university-of-idaho#!quicktabs-tab-institution_data-1

It is not that Idaho numbers have really changed, but more that the median for the Sun Belt has gone up.

 

[Spanky2]

UM should have changed to FBS ten years ago. Now, that we are in the enrollment pickle, we are in no position to consider a change. We will be fortunate to maintain our FCS status.

You do realize that enrollment doesn't dictate classification...

Well, hot shot, lack of enrollment means less revenue for any expense related to a change.

 

[first11]

So, if it is these type teams, these are the Athletic budgets I found online (I am like Stugotz when it comes to reading the interwebs, so that it with a grain of salt)

UM Athletic Budget--$19 Million
Montana State Budget--19 Million

CSU Budget--- $54 Million

Utah State-- $32 Million

University of New Mexico-- $33 Million

If either the Cats or the griz want to move up, they will have to come up with a way to raise around 2 TIMES the amount they do now...

Ah Yes, there is the rub (as we discussed for the past 10 to 15 years on every "Move Up!" thread).

Then we start to list the potential sources...

Double ticket prices (oh wait, they're already at FBS prices).
Soak the students (oh wait, they're diminishing).
Money from Legislature (oh wait, until hell freezes over).
Donors increase giving (oh wait, you need HOW MUCH MORE?).

Then after much bitter bickering we set it aside and start a new "Move Up!" thread. Enjoy!

I think you've conveniently neglected to mention the actual revenue drivers at the fbs level, 82.

But sadly I guess that's the new normal in our society: say whatever you want as long as it corresponds with your viewpoint whether it's factual or not.

Sheesh, sorry to all I offended!

Not trying to intentionally omit anything. Nor was it some attempt to push some non-factual info on eGriz (God forbid if that EVER happens!). I was just recapping the inevitable life line / flow of these damn threads. I believe this is Number 314 since I began looking at eGriz. They all seem to go down the exact same path. It is perhaps the most consistent thing on this site.

Presumably you're alluding to some TV dollars for FBS football as an item I forgot to list. That would certainly help. Mea Culpa. Though I don't think it is anywhere near the $13 million we'd need to match Utah St or New Mexico budgets. There just isn't SEC dollars to be had. There isn't even the Boise St dollars to be had, there is only WAC crumbs the big boys lost in the couch with their pocket change.

Again sorry to burst any bubbles. Carry on without me. I'll wait for "Move Up!" thread 315 before chiming in again with the facts, and just the facts. The money just isn't there to justify a move.

Good on you ‘82. Pretty much the norm indeed for this type of egriz thread. I would add that UM might think of simply maintaining a position it currently holds I don’t sense the deep pockets willing to step up supporting any move under current financial restraints and enrollment issues. UM not in position for a big change

 

[grizindabox]

UM should have changed to FBS ten years ago. Now, that we are in the enrollment pickle, we are in no position to consider a change. We will be fortunate to maintain our FCS status.

You do realize that enrollment doesn't dictate classification...

Well, hot shot, lack of enrollment means less revenue for any expense related to a change.

You do realize that there are D2 schools much bigger than UM and FBS schools the with the same or lower. Lack of enrollment plays a role in some revenue, but in reality, enrollment is not even close to the largest determining factor. UM is no where near dropping from FCS, and even suggesting it is uninformed and naive.

 

[Spanky2]

UM should have changed to FBS ten years ago. Now, that we are in the enrollment pickle, we are in no position to consider a change. We will be fortunate to maintain our FCS status.

You do realize that enrollment doesn't dictate classification...

Well, hot shot, lack of enrollment means less revenue for any expense related to a change.

You do realize that there are D2 schools much bigger than UM and FBS schools the with the same or lower. Lack of enrollment plays a role in some revenue, but in reality, enrollment is not even close to the largest determining factor. UM is no where near dropping from FCS, and even suggesting it is uninformed and naive.

Why are you such a jerk? I didn’t suggest UM is near dropping from FCS. I will say that they should whenever it is possible and the administration decides it will be beneficial to the university. Now, let’s see how you turn that statement around.

 

[grizindabox]

UM should have changed to FBS ten years ago. Now, that we are in the enrollment pickle, we are in no position to consider a change. We will be fortunate to maintain our FCS status.
Why are you such a jerk? I didn’t suggest UM is near dropping from FCS. I will say that they should whenever it is possible and the administration decides it will be beneficial to the university. Now, let’s see how you turn that statement around.

Pretty simple, when in one sentence you talk about FBS and in the next you refer to "fortunate to maintain FCS", it would be natural to assume you mean having to go lower. It may not been what you meant, but how you expressed it, it sure seemed so.

 

[PlayerRep]

UM's current enrollment situation has severely impacted UM's budget situation, and there is no way that UM would be able to move up, either financially or politically. That's what Spanky was saying with his reference to enrollment.

 

[Spanky2]

UM should have changed to FBS ten years ago. Now, that we are in the enrollment pickle, we are in no position to consider a change. We will be fortunate to maintain our FCS status.
Why are you such a jerk? I didn’t suggest UM is near dropping from FCS. I will say that they should whenever it is possible and the administration decides it will be beneficial to the university. Now, let’s see how you turn that statement around.

Pretty simple, when in one sentence you talk about FBS and in the next you refer to "fortunate to maintain FCS", it would be natural to assume you mean having to go lower. It may not been what you meant, but how you expressed it, it sure seemed so.

You are correct. I did make that statement and believe we will be fortunate to maintain our current status rather than a move to Division2 for financial reasons. I thought you meant I was suggesting an immediate move to FBS.

 

[grizindabox]

UM should have changed to FBS ten years ago. Now, that we are in the enrollment pickle, we are in no position to consider a change. We will be fortunate to maintain our FCS status.
Why are you such a jerk? I didn’t suggest UM is near dropping from FCS. I will say that they should whenever it is possible and the administration decides it will be beneficial to the university. Now, let’s see how you turn that statement around.

Pretty simple, when in one sentence you talk about FBS and in the next you refer to "fortunate to maintain FCS", it would be natural to assume you mean having to go lower. It may not been what you meant, but how you expressed it, it sure seemed so.

You are correct. I did make that statement and believe we will be fortunate to maintain our current status rather than a move to Division2 for financial reasons. I thought you meant I was suggesting an immediate move to FBS.

So I was correct in calling you naive for suggesting that a move to D2 is on the horizon.

 

[Spanky2]

UM should have changed to FBS ten years ago. Now, that we are in the enrollment pickle, we are in no position to consider a change. We will be fortunate to maintain our FCS status.

Why are you such a jerk? I didn’t suggest UM is near dropping from FCS. I will say that they should whenever it is possible and the administration decides it will be beneficial to the university. Now, let’s see how you turn that statement around.

Pretty simple, when in one sentence you talk about FBS and in the next you refer to "fortunate to maintain FCS", it would be natural to assume you mean having to go lower. It may not been what you meant, but how you expressed it, it sure seemed so.

You are correct. I did make that statement and believe we will be fortunate to maintain our current status rather than a move to Division2 for financial reasons. I thought you meant I was suggesting an immediate move to FBS.

So I was correct in calling you naive for suggesting that a move to D2 is on the horizon.

I didn’t make that suggestion. I will suggest there have been bean counters looking at the possible savings involved by moving from FCS to Division2. Should you think that isn’t possible, you are the one that is naive. I was around during a period of athletic cutbacks at UM in 1961-62 prior to the decision of joining the Big Sky Conference. Where were you?

 

[grizindabox]

Pretty simple, when in one sentence you talk about FBS and in the next you refer to "fortunate to maintain FCS", it would be natural to assume you mean having to go lower. It may not been what you meant, but how you expressed it, it sure seemed so.

You are correct. I did make that statement and believe we will be fortunate to maintain our current status rather than a move to Division2 for financial reasons. I thought you meant I was suggesting an immediate move to FBS.

So I was correct in calling you naive for suggesting that a move to D2 is on the horizon.

I didn’t make that suggestion. I will suggest there have been bean counters looking at the possible savings involved by moving from FCS to Division2. Should you think that isn’t possible, you are the one that is naive. I was around during a period of athletic cutbacks at UM in 1961-62 prior to the decision of joining the Big Sky Conference. Where were you?

OK, whatever Spanky... "fortunate to maintain FCS".......