Elite Griz QB

[garizzalies]

If not for losing his 2012 season, JJ may be #1 or #2 on most of these lists.*

Help me understand how this works. JJ played in 2010, 2011, 2013 and 2014. 2012 was his redshirt year. So how did he "lose" a year?

A common metric for QBs is completion percentage; elite QBs usually show very high percentages. How does JJ stand relative to the others in that stat? Was it selectively ignored?

Personally, I think Nate Montana should be in the discussion for obvious reasons.

Have you been smoking Krakauer? Or maybe you blocked that year.
Here’s where I found my stats—the go Griz record book.
https://gogriz.com/documents/2021/7/20/Record_Book_2021.pdf

If you want to argue that we’ve had exactly one elite QB (and only one ncaa hall-of-famer), that’s cool with me. But if you expand the definition beyond super Dave, JJ should be included. His name is everywhere on those lists. Some that I didn’t even mention, like most TDs, longest, etc. Here’s a good one:

HIGHEST PASSING EFFICIENCY
322.3 .......Jordan Johnson, North Dakota, 2013 (19-15-0, .789%, 354-Yds, 5 TD)
(Big Sky Record)

I’d love to see the career QB rushing record list. Anyone know where to find that?

I couldn’t find Nate Dog on any lists, but your boy Ochs had a great year. No doubt. One season. So did your buddy roger maris, but he’s not in the hall of fame because of no longevity.

Career-wise, 3 names keep coming up on UM’s lists. Again, about a third of all the greatest seasons at UM are by the same 3 guys.

And isn’t that the point...er the reason for this thread. We have a young QB with a long career ahead. Good grief the kid wins a POW award on his first god damned start but around here you’d think he pissed an effigy of a stick figure humping the mid-field Griz logo and poked BH’s eye out with an errant clipboard.

 

[grizeyes]

WTF? Are you kidding? JJ is in the top three or four of every meaningful all-time record for Griz QBs:

TOP-4 CAREER WINS FOR STARTING QB
33...Dave Dickenson, 1992-95
30...Cole Bergquist, 2005-08
29...Brian Ah Yat, 1995-98
28...Jordan Johnson, 2010-14.

MOST YARDS PASSING (career)
11,080...Dave Dickenson, 1992-95
9,315.....Brian Ah Yat, 1995-98
8,612.....Jordan Johnson, 2010-11, 2013-14.

PASSING TOUCHDOWNS (season)
42...Brian Ah Yat, 1996
38...Dave Dickenson, 1995
33...Craig Ochs, 2004
32...Jordan Johnson, 2013 (tie).

PASSING TOUCHDOWNS (career)
96...Dave Dickenson, 1993-95
89...Brian Ah Yat, 1995-98
77...Jordan Johnson, 2010-11, 2013-14.

JJ is one of only three players to appear on the PASSING YARDS TOP-30 season list 3 times (three seasons):

Dave Dickenson (1995, 1993, 1994),
Brian Ah Yat (1996, 1998, 1997),
Jordan Johnson (2014, 2014, 2011).

Think about that for a sec. 30% of the top 30 best seasons at UM are held by 3 guys.

If not for losing his 2012 season, JJ may be #1 or #2 on most of these lists.*



*Except for Super Dave’s 1995 total passing yards: 4,176 yard in one season. Holy mackerel!

i guess it is how you define "elite". johnson was definitely "elite" with his very non-dramatic return to the griz, and piloting the team as well as he could given the personnel available. but "elite"? tough to define.

Stats, all-time rankings and BS aside. JJ was a great QB, a winner with the heart of a lion. The guy never quit. He was a great QB for our beloved Griz.

Go Griz!

 

[kemajic]

If not for losing his 2012 season, JJ may be #1 or #2 on most of these lists.*

Help me understand how this works. JJ played in 2010, 2011, 2013 and 2014. 2012 was his redshirt year. So how did he "lose" a year?

A common metric for QBs is completion percentage; elite QBs usually show very high percentages. How does JJ stand relative to the others in that stat? Was it selectively ignored?

I did some of the work for you. JJ was 656 for 1132 in his 4 years at UM. That's 57.95%. That's not elite; it' may not even be above average.

 

[Kodiak]

If not for losing his 2012 season, JJ may be #1 or #2 on most of these lists.*

Help me understand how this works. JJ played in 2010, 2011, 2013 and 2014. 2012 was his redshirt year. So how did he "lose" a year?

A common metric for QBs is completion percentage; elite QBs usually show very high percentages. How does JJ stand relative to the others in that stat? Was it selectively ignored?

Personally, I think Nate Montana should be in the discussion for obvious reasons.

JJ was very good, elite yes but not one of the top 4 despite his career numbers in my opinion. The stats back it up but his one major drawback was that he did not have the strongest arm. He was usually able to make up for that with reads, anticipation and savvy. For my money, Drew Miller is the 2nd best pure passer UM has ever had. I would also rank Ochs ahead of JJ. Don't get me wrong, JJ was a stud, for my money the other 4 were better than him. My list (Post 1992 Era, Lebo probably had the strongest arm of any QB in Griz history):

1. Dave
2. Brian A-Y (Mobility much greater that Drew Miller)
3. Miller
4. Ochs
5. JJ

 

[kemajic]

Help me understand how this works. JJ played in 2010, 2011, 2013 and 2014. 2012 was his redshirt year. So how did he "lose" a year?

A common metric for QBs is completion percentage; elite QBs usually show very high percentages. How does JJ stand relative to the others in that stat? Was it selectively ignored?

Personally, I think Nate Montana should be in the discussion for obvious reasons.

Have you been smoking Krakauer? Or maybe you blocked that year.
Here’s where I found my stats—the go Griz record book.
https://gogriz.com/documents/2021/7/20/Record_Book_2021.pdf

If you want to argue that we’ve had exactly one elite QB (and only one ncaa hall-of-famer), that’s cool with me. But if you expand the definition beyond super Dave, JJ should be included. His name is everywhere on those lists. Some that I didn’t even mention, like most TDs, longest, etc. Here’s a good one:

HIGHEST PASSING EFFICIENCY
322.3 .......Jordan Johnson, North Dakota, 2013 (19-15-0, .789%, 354-Yds, 5 TD)
(Big Sky Record)

I’d love to see the career QB rushing record list. Anyone know where to find that?

I couldn’t find Nate Dog on any lists, but your boy Ochs had a great year. No doubt. One season. So did your buddy roger maris, but he’s not in the hall of fame because of no longevity.

Career-wise, 3 names keep coming up on UM’s lists. Again, about a third of all the greatest seasons at UM are by the same 3 guys.

And isn’t that the point...er the reason for this thread. We have a young QB with a long career ahead. Good grief the kid wins a POW award on his first god damned start but around here you’d think he pissed an effigy of a stick figure humping the mid-field Griz logo and poked BH’s eye out with an errant clipboard.

Of course the Nate comment was tongue-in-cheek. But how about addressing the questions I asked. I'm just trying to keep you honest. JJ played 4 years; he did not lose a year like you claim. I love the guy; he was a gamer. But he also had a pedestrian 57.95% completion percentage which you cherry-picked out. Stay with balanced facts instead of your narrative.

I think Brown will be very good, maybe even elite. But a POW against an 0-5 team the way he protected the ball? Not too many who were at the game buy that. That's how games get lost against better competition.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Help me understand how this works. JJ played in 2010, 2011, 2013 and 2014. 2012 was his redshirt year. So how did he "lose" a year?

A common metric for QBs is completion percentage; elite QBs usually show very high percentages. How does JJ stand relative to the others in that stat? Was it selectively ignored?

Personally, I think Nate Montana should be in the discussion for obvious reasons.

JJ was very good, elite yes but not one of the top 4 despite his career numbers in my opinion. The stats back it up but his one major drawback was that he did not have the strongest arm. He was usually able to make up for that with reads, anticipation and savvy. For my money, Drew Miller is the 2nd best pure passer UM has ever had. I would also rank Ochs ahead of JJ. Don't get me wrong, JJ was a stud, for my money the other 4 were better than him. My list (Post 1992 Era, Lebo probably had the strongest arm of any QB in Griz history):

1. Dave
2. Brian A-Y (Mobility much greater that Drew Miller)
3. Miller
4. Ochs
5. JJ

I can’t find many reasons to disagree with your list. Hard to make inter-era comparisons with stats because the QB position, in my opinion, has changed a lot in the last 20-something years. I do know that the way the ball came off of Ochs’ hand was different from everyone else’s at the time, and Johnson was one of the smartest QBs we’ve ever had. Kid saw a football, it made sense to him, and he could just play.

 

[garizzalies]

Have you been smoking Krakauer? Or maybe you blocked that year.
Here’s where I found my stats—the go Griz record book.
https://gogriz.com/documents/2021/7/20/Record_Book_2021.pdf

If you want to argue that we’ve had exactly one elite QB (and only one ncaa hall-of-famer), that’s cool with me. But if you expand the definition beyond super Dave, JJ should be included. His name is everywhere on those lists. Some that I didn’t even mention, like most TDs, longest, etc. Here’s a good one:

HIGHEST PASSING EFFICIENCY
322.3 .......Jordan Johnson, North Dakota, 2013 (19-15-0, .789%, 354-Yds, 5 TD)
(Big Sky Record)

I’d love to see the career QB rushing record list. Anyone know where to find that?

I couldn’t find Nate Dog on any lists, but your boy Ochs had a great year. No doubt. One season. So did your buddy roger maris, but he’s not in the hall of fame because of no longevity.

Career-wise, 3 names keep coming up on UM’s lists. Again, about a third of all the greatest seasons at UM are by the same 3 guys.

And isn’t that the point...er the reason for this thread. We have a young QB with a long career ahead. Good grief the kid wins a POW award on his first god damned start but around here you’d think he pissed an effigy of a stick figure humping the mid-field Griz logo and poked BH’s eye out with an errant clipboard.

Of course the Nate comment was tongue-in-cheek. But how about addressing the questions I asked. I'm just trying to keep you honest. JJ played 4 years; he did not lose a year like you claim. I love the guy; he was a gamer. But he also had a pedestrian 57.95% completion percentage which you cherry-picked out. Stay with balanced facts instead of your narrative...

Keep me honest? Wtf. What have I lied about? What have I narrative’d about? I even provided all my cites.

JJ and the TEAM got railroaded in 2012. Everyone knows it; pretty easy to understand. At their peak. They had just shit-stomped the #1 bubcats like it was their god-given right. Made it to the semi’s for the last time (which BTW was the question posed: “last” elite QB). And then the rug got pulled out.

By the time JJ made it back, grampa-bear stopped recruiting OLs but was running the triple option for some crazy-old-man-yelling-at-cloud-reason. Remember that game where JJ went off and later grampa-bear said he thought maybe they should start passing more? :lol:

As for your math on the New Atlas Bar napkin, wouldn’t that put JJ at number 8 on the all time list—just behind Gresch Jensen and Scott Werbelow? :roll:

 

[garizzalies]

"After halftime, Montana continued to run its newfound spread read option attack, an offense reminiscent of the one the Grizzlies used when Robin Pflugrad was the head coach and UM made a run to the semifinals in 2011. The last two seasons under Delaney, UM has run a pro-style attack.

"Montana quarterback Jordan Johnson, who was a game-time decision because of a sprained ankle suffered last week, rushed for 80 yards on six carries, including a 23-yard scamper to set up Jordan Canada’s first rushing touchdown and a 43-yard burst to set up a four-yard Canada touchdown reception to cap the first quarter scoring.

“When we switched to the more read-style gun runs, they keyed on me in the beginning and Jordan was able to take advantage of them,” said Canada, who finished with 119 yards to go over 1,000 for the season for a second straight year. “Then we started to go back and forth and they didn’t know what to do.”

“We just decided to go with that style of offense,” added Johnson. “That’s what we are going to do from now on.”

 

[garizzalies]

‘Bama or Ida, or any other state,
Challenge:
How can we find the all-time rushing record lists (career and season) for UM QBs?

 

[G&B]

Craig Oaks!

 

[kemajic]

Help me understand how this works. JJ played in 2010, 2011, 2013 and 2014. 2012 was his redshirt year. So how did he "lose" a year?

A common metric for QBs is completion percentage; elite QBs usually show very high percentages. How does JJ stand relative to the others in that stat? Was it selectively ignored?

Personally, I think Nate Montana should be in the discussion for obvious reasons.

JJ was very good, elite yes but not one of the top 4 despite his career numbers in my opinion. The stats back it up but his one major drawback was that he did not have the strongest arm. He was usually able to make up for that with reads, anticipation and savvy. For my money, Drew Miller is the 2nd best pure passer UM has ever had. I would also rank Ochs ahead of JJ. Don't get me wrong, JJ was a stud, for my money the other 4 were better than him. My list (Post 1992 Era, Lebo probably had the strongest arm of any QB in Griz history):

1. Dave
2. Brian A-Y (Mobility much greater that Drew Miller)
3. Miller
4. Ochs
5. JJ

That is a pretty good list. More and more I'm thinking Sneed could be in the discussion. If it just wasn't for that last Weber game....

 

[kemajic]

Of course the Nate comment was tongue-in-cheek. But how about addressing the questions I asked. I'm just trying to keep you honest. JJ played 4 years; he did not lose a year like you claim. I love the guy; he was a gamer. But he also had a pedestrian 57.95% completion percentage which you cherry-picked out. Stay with balanced facts instead of your narrative...

Keep me honest? Wtf. What have I lied about? What have I narrative’d about? I even provided all my cites.

JJ and the TEAM got railroaded in 2012. Everyone knows it; pretty easy to understand. At their peak. They had just shit-stomped the #1 bubcats like it was their god-given right. Made it to the semi’s for the last time (which BTW was the question posed: “last” elite QB). And then the rug got pulled out.

By the time JJ made it back, grampa-bear stopped recruiting OLs but was running the triple option for some crazy-old-man-yelling-at-cloud-reason. Remember that game where JJ went off and later grampa-bear said he thought maybe they should start passing more? :lol:

As for your math on the New Atlas Bar napkin, wouldn’t that put JJ at number 8 on the all time list—just behind Gresch Jensen and Scott Werbelow? :roll:

From your own link:

1. DD 67.3
2. Werblow 66.5
3. Miller 65.7
3. Ochs 65.7
5. Sneed 64.2
6. Ah Yat 61.8
7. Jensen 60.2
8. Selle 60.1
9. Bergquist 59.2
10. Mornhinweg 58.7
11. Bennett 58.4
12. Edwards 57.8

JJ does not appear on the list; possibly my Atlas napkin calculation of 57.95 was a bit generous. Pretty clear why it was not part of your argument.

 

[kemajic]

Help me understand how this works. JJ played in 2010, 2011, 2013 and 2014. 2012 was his redshirt year. So how did he "lose" a year?

A common metric for QBs is completion percentage; elite QBs usually show very high percentages. How does JJ stand relative to the others in that stat? Was it selectively ignored?

Personally, I think Nate Montana should be in the discussion for obvious reasons.

JJ was very good, elite yes but not one of the top 4 despite his career numbers in my opinion. The stats back it up but his one major drawback was that he did not have the strongest arm. He was usually able to make up for that with reads, anticipation and savvy. For my money, Drew Miller is the 2nd best pure passer UM has ever had. I would also rank Ochs ahead of JJ. Don't get me wrong, JJ was a stud, for my money the other 4 were better than him. My list (Post 1992 Era, Lebo probably had the strongest arm of any QB in Griz history):

1. Dave
2. Brian A-Y (Mobility much greater that Drew Miller)
3. Miller
4. Ochs
5. JJ

For my money Miller was easily the best pure passer. Not the best QB. He could make throws DD did not have the arm strength for and his accuracy was exceptional. He could deliver the long outs with velocity right on target. DD the most complete QB and field general by far, of course. A great comment by Don Read that I heard in person and I will paraphrase, if Craig Ochs had the OL that DD played behind, it would be his number up there retired. The '94 OL was the best we've ever had.

 

[EverettGriz]

Help me understand how this works. JJ played in 2010, 2011, 2013 and 2014. 2012 was his redshirt year. So how did he "lose" a year?

A common metric for QBs is completion percentage; elite QBs usually show very high percentages. How does JJ stand relative to the others in that stat? Was it selectively ignored?

Personally, I think Nate Montana should be in the discussion for obvious reasons.

Have you been smoking Krakauer? Or maybe you blocked that year.
Here’s where I found my stats—the go Griz record book.
https://gogriz.com/documents/2021/7/20/Record_Book_2021.pdf

If you want to argue that we’ve had exactly one elite QB (and only one ncaa hall-of-famer), that’s cool with me. But if you expand the definition beyond super Dave, JJ should be included. His name is everywhere on those lists. Some that I didn’t even mention, like most TDs, longest, etc. Here’s a good one:

HIGHEST PASSING EFFICIENCY
322.3 .......Jordan Johnson, North Dakota, 2013 (19-15-0, .789%, 354-Yds, 5 TD)
(Big Sky Record)

I’d love to see the career QB rushing record list. Anyone know where to find that?

I couldn’t find Nate Dog on any lists, but your boy Ochs had a great year. No doubt. One season. So did your buddy roger maris, but he’s not in the hall of fame because of no longevity.

Career-wise, 3 names keep coming up on UM’s lists. Again, about a third of all the greatest seasons at UM are by the same 3 guys.

And isn’t that the point...er the reason for this thread. We have a young QB with a long career ahead. Good grief the kid wins a POW award on his first god damned start but around here you’d think he pissed an effigy of a stick figure humping the mid-field Griz logo and poked BH’s eye out with an errant clipboard.

Hmmmm…. I did happen to notice his football pants were kind of small….

 

[garizzalies]

Keep me honest? Wtf. What have I lied about? What have I narrative’d about? I even provided all my cites.

JJ and the TEAM got railroaded in 2012. Everyone knows it; pretty easy to understand. At their peak. They had just shit-stomped the #1 bubcats like it was their god-given right. Made it to the semi’s for the last time (which BTW was the question posed: “last” elite QB). And then the rug got pulled out.

By the time JJ made it back, grampa-bear stopped recruiting OLs but was running the triple option for some crazy-old-man-yelling-at-cloud-reason. Remember that game where JJ went off and later grampa-bear said he thought maybe they should start passing more? :lol:

As for your math on the New Atlas Bar napkin, wouldn’t that put JJ at number 8 on the all time list—just behind Gresch Jensen and Scott Werbelow? :roll:

From your own link:

1. DD 67.3
2. Werblow 66.5
3. Miller 65.7
3. Ochs 65.7
5. Sneed 64.2
6. Ah Yat 61.8
7. Jensen 60.2
8. Selle 60.1
9. Bergquist 59.2
10. Mornhinweg 58.7
11. Bennett 58.4
12. Edwards 57.8

JJ does not appear on the list; possibly my Atlas napkin calculation of 57.95 was a bit generous. Pretty clear why it was not part of your argument.

Yes because it’s not nearly as good an indicator as COMBINED wins, TDs, and yards. Obviously not as good when it includes Werblow and Jensen. Hard to even take you serious really.

 

[Spanky2]

Not sure what you gentlemen are debating? UM has had many good quarterbacks in our long history. Brown may become an excellent quarterback after he builds confidence and leads the team in several more games. Now, isn’t the time to expect him to be a world beater.

 

[MikeyGriz]

Aren't all Griz QB's by definition "elite"?

 

[fanofzoo]

Aren't all Griz QB's by definition "elite"?

Well all summer that"s all I hear and how great we are.


After 45 years you think I would have learned by now.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

He just got a commit from the top qb in Washington

You're kidding! Hadn't heard.

https://twitter.com/manley_tnt/status/1446600497339584517

 

[2011BisonAlumni]

When did I ever proclaim Zeb Noland to be the next elite NDSU QB? [#]f###, the program produced three consecutive NFL draft picks, 2 going in the top three picks……and finally landed one who didn’t play well……in a weird pandemic fueled spring season where the Griz DID NOT even participate in.

Who cares dude…

Not going to start a debate with you about QB success at NDSU. There hasn’t been a program who produced anything close to the run NDSU had with Jensen, Wentz, Stick and Lance.

When did I ever proclaim Zeb Noland as being anything less than elite? I read on eGriz.com that he had NFL arm talent but maybe not arm NFL talent.

I mean your definition of elite is pretty low standard IMO. The Griz haven’t won the Big Sky conference in football in a decade, have a losing record to both Montana State and EWU over the last decade….but are still an “elite” FCS program in your mind.

I don’t know…..it kind of begs the question. Have the Griz ever really had an elite QB? I mean , the greatest QB in Griz history, The Midget, never took a snap in the NFL.