E-MAIL I SENT TO COACH DELANEY

[stubbins]

I was watching the game with close attention most of the time, there was a span of 5-10 minutes where I was talking with one guy, and missed a few plays, but I saw the majority of our defensive schemes. Like I said, I'll say it once, and again, and of course I admit I am no football expert, merely a spectator who likes to think he understands a little about the game, I am of the opinion that we stay in the 4-3 scheme too much. Perhaps maybe within a few years time the defensive coaching staff will look into switching our primary formation for play calling, and I would strongly support that, especially since we will be losing the heart of our LB core after this year.

For anyone who continues to merely criticize my opinion for the sake of disagreeing, all I ask is you suggest what you think would be a valid argument with regard to fixing our Defense this year. To those who already post in this manner of making a point and attempting to back it up, I commend you. To effortless replies: my biggest pet peeve on forums is chastisement/insults/sarcastic replies with no meaning beyond "you're dumb, or I don't like you" without valid reasons to support that notion. I do respect a gentleman who would poke fun at my judgement, but with a witty logic. If I wanted to just hear pointless insults I could go observe a gradeschool playground... =p.

AZ is right. You obviously either did not watch the game very closely or have no idea what a nickel package looks like. Because I did watch closely and saw the d in nickel at least ten times, and a "light" package with one less d line and one more linebacker just as many times. They did seem to go away from Nickel later in the game presumably because two corners got hurt and the nickel back now had to play a corner spot. Seriously, this calling for defensive personels is getting pretty old when they are already being run. Either pay more attention to the game or learn the game so you know what is being run.

I'm not saying they didn't run nickel throughout the game, I'm saying they didn't run dime AND nickel enough (my mistake if it came off that way). Our team really needs more depth at DB if 2 injuries takes out the ability to call nickel and dime packages, but that would make sense why our defensive coaching staff is not using dime very often, if at all. I think I understand the basic defensive play formations, like the difference between a 4-3-4, a dime (4-1-6), and a nickel(3-3-5), did you not see my previous post with that information, man? Please think, analyze, and research before posting bold accusations like that, thanks.

When I believed to have seen 3 LB on the field pretty much every play we must be running a 3-3-5 or 4-3-4, yes? And I believe most often it was 4-3-4 because I recall seeing LB J.P. Kanangataa having to pick up a WR many times. In a 4-3-4 without blitzes You've got 2 Safety valve positions, so that's already half your secondary. That leaves 2 CB's to initiate a guard on any player lined up as a WR, so if you see 3, 4, or 5 WR's lined up in a play call, you're looking at LB(s) that have to pick them up on perceived passing downs.For the sake of argument I am going to re-watch this game, and statistically analyze how many 4-3-4, how many 3-3-5 and how many 4-1-6 formations I saw. If I come back with some statistics that prove this argument you'll see the post, if not I stand corrected, and perhaps what I thought I saw on the TV was not mostly 4-3 defense..

OK then Tim, please explain this statement from your original post to me " For example, last game against SD I don't recall ever seeing our defense in a nickel or dime package scheme, do we even have one in our playbook?". Now are you sure that you said we didn't play nickel and dime?

Now that we cleared that up, let me explain a little about defensive personnel packages to you to save you the embarrassment in the future. You seem to think that a 4-3-4 equals base personnel, a 4-2-5 equals nickel personnel, etc. This is why you are not noticing when nickel is in the game. 4-3 refers to 4 players lined up in d-line positions and 3 players lined up in LB positions. Now these 3 line backers could be 3 players that play nothing but linebacker, or in the case of nickel it could be a 2 players that always play linebacker and the 3rd could be a player that usually plays saftey/corner lined up in the 3rd linebacker position. BUT THE DEFENSE IS STILL A 4-3 DEFENSE IN THIS NICKEL PACKAGE. they are simply taking a linebacker out (in this case JP) and replacing him with a DB in that LB position (usually Denard or JR). Same goes for when they are running a "light" 4 backer personnel. A d-lineman goes out of the game and a LB goes in, but they are still running a 4-3, it is just now a LB lined up in one d end spot. It looks to me that the D has two versions of this, one in which Tripp moves to d-end, another backer comes in, and a d-end moves to a 3 technique; And another where a d-end comes out and a backer replaces him at the d-end spot. Now it is important to remember that the defense is still lined up in a 4-3 in both of these cases.

So when you do your film breakdown make sure you are not looking for the defense to actually line up in a 4-3, 4-2, 4-1, etc to determine if they are in base, nickel, dime, etc. What you need to look for is a DB lined up in place of JP (or a backer lined up in place of and end in the "light" package). I count about 10 nickel packages and even a few more than that "light" packages. now that is about 1/3 of the defensive plays ran which is quite a few times to be out of a base personnel.

Good post. But I have a question. In all these scenarios your calling the player his position wherever he lines up, is this normal? Because to me, if Kidder lined up at d end (side note, I think if he played end he'd be the next Andy Petek), I'd call him a d-end and not a tackle.

If gamboa was in at safety and was creeping up to blitz I'd call him a safety, but if jp needed a break and they sent gamboa in, I'd say he was in at a linebacker slot. Mind you, if all these scenarios happened in base defense.

 

[Geddes]

AZ is right. You obviously either did not watch the game very closely or have no idea what a nickel package looks like. Because I did watch closely and saw the d in nickel at least ten times, and a "light" package with one less d line and one more linebacker just as many times. They did seem to go away from Nickel later in the game presumably because two corners got hurt and the nickel back now had to play a corner spot. Seriously, this calling for defensive personels is getting pretty old when they are already being run. Either pay more attention to the game or learn the game so you know what is being run.

I'm not saying they didn't run nickel throughout the game, I'm saying they didn't run dime AND nickel enough (my mistake if it came off that way). Our team really needs more depth at DB if 2 injuries takes out the ability to call nickel and dime packages, but that would make sense why our defensive coaching staff is not using dime very often, if at all. I think I understand the basic defensive play formations, like the difference between a 4-3-4, a dime (4-1-6), and a nickel(3-3-5), did you not see my previous post with that information, man? Please think, analyze, and research before posting bold accusations like that, thanks.

When I believed to have seen 3 LB on the field pretty much every play we must be running a 3-3-5 or 4-3-4, yes? And I believe most often it was 4-3-4 because I recall seeing LB J.P. Kanangataa having to pick up a WR many times. In a 4-3-4 without blitzes You've got 2 Safety valve positions, so that's already half your secondary. That leaves 2 CB's to initiate a guard on any player lined up as a WR, so if you see 3, 4, or 5 WR's lined up in a play call, you're looking at LB(s) that have to pick them up on perceived passing downs.For the sake of argument I am going to re-watch this game, and statistically analyze how many 4-3-4, how many 3-3-5 and how many 4-1-6 formations I saw. If I come back with some statistics that prove this argument you'll see the post, if not I stand corrected, and perhaps what I thought I saw on the TV was not mostly 4-3 defense..

OK then Tim, please explain this statement from your original post to me " For example, last game against SD I don't recall ever seeing our defense in a nickel or dime package scheme, do we even have one in our playbook?". Now are you sure that you said we didn't play nickel and dime?

Now that we cleared that up, let me explain a little about defensive personnel packages to you to save you the embarrassment in the future. You seem to think that a 4-3-4 equals base personnel, a 4-2-5 equals nickel personnel, etc. This is why you are not noticing when nickel is in the game. 4-3 refers to 4 players lined up in d-line positions and 3 players lined up in LB positions. Now these 3 line backers could be 3 players that play nothing but linebacker, or in the case of nickel it could be a 2 players that always play linebacker and the 3rd could be a player that usually plays saftey/corner lined up in the 3rd linebacker position. BUT THE DEFENSE IS STILL A 4-3 DEFENSE IN THIS NICKEL PACKAGE. they are simply taking a linebacker out (in this case JP) and replacing him with a DB in that LB position (usually Denard or JR). Same goes for when they are running a "light" 4 backer personnel. A d-lineman goes out of the game and a LB goes in, but they are still running a 4-3, it is just now a LB lined up in one d end spot. It looks to me that the D has two versions of this, one in which Tripp moves to d-end, another backer comes in, and a d-end moves to a 3 technique; And another where a d-end comes out and a backer replaces him at the d-end spot. Now it is important to remember that the defense is still lined up in a 4-3 in both of these cases.

So when you do your film breakdown make sure you are not looking for the defense to actually line up in a 4-3, 4-2, 4-1, etc to determine if they are in base, nickel, dime, etc. What you need to look for is a DB lined up in place of JP (or a backer lined up in place of and end in the "light" package). I count about 10 nickel packages and even a few more than that "light" packages. now that is about 1/3 of the defensive plays ran which is quite a few times to be out of a base personnel.

Good post. But I have a question. In all these scenarios your calling the player his position wherever he lines up, is this normal? Because to me, if Kidder lined up at d end (side note, I think if he played end he'd be the next Andy Petek), I'd call him a d-end and not a tackle.

If gamboa was in at safety and was creeping up to blitz I'd call him a safety, but if jp needed a break and they sent gamboa in, I'd say he was in at a linebacker slot. Mind you, if all these scenarios happened in base defense.

Which is why I love linebacker/safety hybrids! I think this roster has a few of them.

 

[Thurman Murman]

AZ is right. You obviously either did not watch the game very closely or have no idea what a nickel package looks like. Because I did watch closely and saw the d in nickel at least ten times, and a "light" package with one less d line and one more linebacker just as many times. They did seem to go away from Nickel later in the game presumably because two corners got hurt and the nickel back now had to play a corner spot. Seriously, this calling for defensive personels is getting pretty old when they are already being run. Either pay more attention to the game or learn the game so you know what is being run.

I'm not saying they didn't run nickel throughout the game, I'm saying they didn't run dime AND nickel enough (my mistake if it came off that way). Our team really needs more depth at DB if 2 injuries takes out the ability to call nickel and dime packages, but that would make sense why our defensive coaching staff is not using dime very often, if at all. I think I understand the basic defensive play formations, like the difference between a 4-3-4, a dime (4-1-6), and a nickel(3-3-5), did you not see my previous post with that information, man? Please think, analyze, and research before posting bold accusations like that, thanks.

When I believed to have seen 3 LB on the field pretty much every play we must be running a 3-3-5 or 4-3-4, yes? And I believe most often it was 4-3-4 because I recall seeing LB J.P. Kanangataa having to pick up a WR many times. In a 4-3-4 without blitzes You've got 2 Safety valve positions, so that's already half your secondary. That leaves 2 CB's to initiate a guard on any player lined up as a WR, so if you see 3, 4, or 5 WR's lined up in a play call, you're looking at LB(s) that have to pick them up on perceived passing downs.For the sake of argument I am going to re-watch this game, and statistically analyze how many 4-3-4, how many 3-3-5 and how many 4-1-6 formations I saw. If I come back with some statistics that prove this argument you'll see the post, if not I stand corrected, and perhaps what I thought I saw on the TV was not mostly 4-3 defense..

OK then Tim, please explain this statement from your original post to me " For example, last game against SD I don't recall ever seeing our defense in a nickel or dime package scheme, do we even have one in our playbook?". Now are you sure that you said we didn't play nickel and dime?

Now that we cleared that up, let me explain a little about defensive personnel packages to you to save you the embarrassment in the future. You seem to think that a 4-3-4 equals base personnel, a 4-2-5 equals nickel personnel, etc. This is why you are not noticing when nickel is in the game. 4-3 refers to 4 players lined up in d-line positions and 3 players lined up in LB positions. Now these 3 line backers could be 3 players that play nothing but linebacker, or in the case of nickel it could be a 2 players that always play linebacker and the 3rd could be a player that usually plays saftey/corner lined up in the 3rd linebacker position. BUT THE DEFENSE IS STILL A 4-3 DEFENSE IN THIS NICKEL PACKAGE. they are simply taking a linebacker out (in this case JP) and replacing him with a DB in that LB position (usually Denard or JR). Same goes for when they are running a "light" 4 backer personnel. A d-lineman goes out of the game and a LB goes in, but they are still running a 4-3, it is just now a LB lined up in one d end spot. It looks to me that the D has two versions of this, one in which Tripp moves to d-end, another backer comes in, and a d-end moves to a 3 technique; And another where a d-end comes out and a backer replaces him at the d-end spot. Now it is important to remember that the defense is still lined up in a 4-3 in both of these cases.

So when you do your film breakdown make sure you are not looking for the defense to actually line up in a 4-3, 4-2, 4-1, etc to determine if they are in base, nickel, dime, etc. What you need to look for is a DB lined up in place of JP (or a backer lined up in place of and end in the "light" package). I count about 10 nickel packages and even a few more than that "light" packages. now that is about 1/3 of the defensive plays ran which is quite a few times to be out of a base personnel.

Good post. But I have a question. In all these scenarios your calling the player his position wherever he lines up, is this normal? Because to me, if Kidder lined up at d end (side note, I think if he played end he'd be the next Andy Petek), I'd call him a d-end and not a tackle.

If gamboa was in at safety and was creeping up to blitz I'd call him a safety, but if jp needed a break and they sent gamboa in, I'd say he was in at a linebacker slot. Mind you, if all these scenarios happened in base defense.

Not sure that I fully understand the question, but I will give my thoughts. If a player that normal plays/is listed on the roster/practices as say a corner (say JR), lines up at an outside linebacker spot, you can call him a corner or a linebacker. Really doesn't matter too much. In reality he is a "nickel back". His responsibilities are that of an outside linebacker but they are using a corner in order to get a more athletic player on the field in anticipation of having to cover a pass. Often times, the base D calls are the same exact calls that are given in a nickel D. The only difference is you now have more athleticism on the field carrying out those calls. Now, there could be calls specific to a nickel package but often times they are the same exact calls. Now regardless if JR is playing a nickel/linebacker or corner, if someone asks me what position he plays in a general conversation the answer is corner because that is his true position.

The kidder example is a bit more complicated because he actually does play d-end occasionally in base defense (very limited). But again, in a general conversation about kidder I would define him as a d tackle. Now if he were playing d-end in base D and we were talking about that specific play he would be termed the d-end. Gamboa is even more complicated. his base position right now is LB. I believe he was moved from safety a week or two ago. The coaches cant seem to decide what to do with him. He has been a LB and a safety a couple times each. As of right now his base position is LB. Lately he has been coming in as a fourth backer in "light" personnel. I believe this used to be Addison Owen's job but he has been fighting some injuries and is also been getting some looks at d-end as his base position.

 

[goatcreekgriz]

Great thread rising from inauspicious beginnings. I even liked the history lesson.

At one time, wasn't it a long standing tradition for the sitting US President to call the HC of the two Super Bowl contenders during Half Time to offer play suggestions? He probably knows
more about football than Richard Nixon.

Yeah, Nixon knew enough to suggest a play good enough for a thirteen-yard loss.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--president-nixon-tried-to-help-dolphins-win-super-bowl-vi-225925413.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mr. Jayko probably knows more about football than Tricky Dick, but he'll never open the door to China.