Crapping on our Safties!

[rimrockgriz]

How far the corner plays off the ball in cover "3" is a poor question. Bama's corners bounce all over the place before the ball snap, even in cover 3. The weak side corner who covers the "z" routinely is only only a few yards off the line of scrimmage...takes 3 hard read steps to see if the q.b. is in a 3 step drop...which means a short pattern. Also cover '3" has a cloud or sky coverage which tells the "D" who has strong side "flat' responsibility. I'm not on the train here on egriz that blames secondary technique. You are either a playmaker or not. :egriz:

 

[PlayerRep]

I line up with Rock on this one. Some of the comments in this thread actually support what Rock said. Safeties are supposed to line up 10 or so yards deep in most defenses. (By the way, it is absolutely not true that the corners lined up 10 yards deep last year. That's just BS.) Most of the time (i.e. when not in "man" coverage), the d-back doesn't have a man to follow and defend. The d-back has a zone to cover. Some of you think you understand secondary play, but few actually do, and the ignorance regarding secondary play on this board is very evident. If you don't know what defense the secondary is playing on the play, and in some cases what the particular nuances are of the defense, you probably aren't going to know who made a mistake on a completed pass. Case in point. The defender closest to the completed pass is not necessarily the player who made the mistake.

I tracked it one game....there were a total of NINE defensive plays where the corners were LESS than seven yards from the line of scrimmage and more than sixty in that game where they were anywhere from seven to ten yards off the line. True that's a one game sample but I don't think it differed much throughout the year.

Corners are frequently 7 or 8 yards off of the ball. That's the normal position for corners. Your statement is meaningless. The corners were probably 7 - 10 yards off the ball almost the whole game. The corners are not 10 yards off the ball.

My point, which you conveniently ignored, was that our corners play press coverage less than 1 in 7 defensive plays. Since you seem to be able to shit football statistics, is that normal, above or below average?

Press coverage is a tighter type of man/cover 1 coverage, in my parlance. I don't think UM uses press coverage even as much as you indicated. Press coverage is very difficult and many college corners are not good enough to do it successfully and consistently. Man/cover 1 is not as hard as press coverage. Some corners/secondary are more skilled at man/cover 1 than other corners/secondaries. If your corners/secondary aren't great at man/cover 1, then you can't play it alot and have to rely more on zone coverages or perhaps hybrids. Press coverage is less risky if there is safety help "over the top". However, you only have so many defenders, with the secondary and backers, so press coverage with safety help over the top leaves other coverage holes and takes backers away from run-stop/blitz duties. While I don't know for sure, my impression is that UM wasn't great at man/cover 1 last year.

 

[PlayerRep]

How far the corner plays off the ball in cover "3" is a poor question. Bama's corners bounce all over the place before the ball snap, even in cover 3. The weak side corner who covers the "z" routinely is only only a few yards off the line of scrimmage...takes 3 hard read steps to see if the q.b. is in a 3 step drop...which means a short pattern. Also cover '3" has a cloud or sky coverage which tells the "D" who has strong side "flat' responsibility. I'm not on the train here on egriz that blames secondary technique. You are either a playmaker or not. :egriz:

I'm more interested in what UM does, not Alabama. Also, it isn't cover 3 if the weakside corner is only a few yards off the line of scrimmage. In cover 3, i.e. 3 deep, each defense has 1/3 of the field. Th defender has to be deep enough to cover receivers coming from adjacent zones. A corner near the line of scrimmage in cover 3 can't possibly cover a flag route run by an inside receiver to the flag in his zone.

 

[rimrockgriz]

pardon my reference to the elite of the elite...(Bama) but the weak side corner can be any f.....g place if he's allowed. If you have the wheels your options are endless. There's no mention here of doubles or twins to the weak or strong side. You CAN'T line up in the same spot all time and BROADCAST what coverage your in. Make cover 3 look like 2...or make 2 look like 3...or play it straight up. I've never thought scheme was our problem last year. When I see personnel NOT making plays on "helium balls"... it tells me it ISN'T scheme. :egriz:

 

[Redonkuless1]

The Griz played press man up with a safety over the top for most of Tru's career, last year they played a bit softer because they didn't have the horses to cover the field.

 

[PlayerRep]

pardon my reference to the elite of the elite...(Bama) but the weak side corner can be any f.....g place if he's allowed. If you have the wheels your options are endless. There's no mention here of doubles or twins to the weak or strong side. You CAN'T line up in the same spot all time and BROADCAST what coverage your in. Make cover 3 look like 2...or make 2 look like 3...or play it straight up. I've never thought scheme was our problem last year. When I see personnel NOT making plays on "helium balls"... it tells me it ISN'T scheme. :egriz:

Again, it is absolutely impossible to play cover 3 with one corner starting out at 3 yards. Impossible.

Most of your offensive set stuff is not relevant in cover, because cover 3 (or the 3 who are in the 1/3 zones) is generally not dependent on the offensive formation. Offensive formation and blitzing can impact where the other safety lines up, but not the 3 deep.

As for disguising defenses, of course, the secondary moves around a bit, but when the ball is snapped they have to be at or close to their positions. Lining up is not measured where a player stands when he comes out of the huddle, it's measured at the snap of the ball.

 

[PlayerRep]

PR:

I'll take a stab at your challenge if you'll answer my question. Why, if you are such a great football mind, to you continue mindlessly pontificate on a FBS fan site like E-Griz? Why don't you challenge yourself with other great football minds? Attempting to be the resident "know it all"/ "bully" on E-Griz would seem to be beneath a man of your football knowledge, no?

Cover 3 Zone-
3 players divide the field in thirds. CB's and FS. CB's have deep third sidelines while FS has deep middle. SS, by the way,usually has the responsibility for the flat. CB's line up normally while the FS is deeper over the middle. Designed to prevent "big plays" and offer more run support.

Thanks CV....just to add a little more to appease PR for the last time.
SS lines ups across from the TE and to assist the CB with the OLB to assist the CB and MLB to assist the FS
Responsibilities, very simple either make the tackle or make the play on the ball, coverage depends on the reads and if you have field vision to respond, sometimes things are not cut and dry out there, so savvy comes into play which is an intangible..... and that is in the real world.

So to address the real point again PR, as we saw last year our SS was out of position playing the tight end and/or giving the CB assistance and when catching up to the play could not make the tackle enough times to frustrate the fans. Our FS was unable to make the play on the ball which is what a good FS would do if coached properly and had the ability to make the play. I hope both of these guys make the grade this year, this dialog is all based on what I saw last year....if not then lets get the guys in there that can.
It is really simple....I am done with this...thanks for playing PR

What depth to the 3-deep players line up at, generally?

That's a stupid question because if your playing a cover 3, your gonna want to discuise your coverage so the
DB's can line up pretty much where ever they want before the ball is snapped. Same goes for the SS and the FS..

It's not a stupid question. Lining up is measured at the snap of the ball, generally. Sure coverages get, or can get disguised, but when the play starts, the secondary needs to be in position.Your comment is a good indication that you don't know squat about secondary play. Generally speaking, the safety is going to be about 15 yards deep, and the corners are going to be 9 or 10 yards deep. AZ, here's one example where the corners can in fact be about 10 yards deep when the ball is snapped. They are playing deep 1/3 zone, so they need to be deep and keep everything in their zone, and adjacent zone, in front of them.

 

[grizcountry420]

Thanks CV....just to add a little more to appease PR for the last time.
SS lines ups across from the TE and to assist the CB with the OLB to assist the CB and MLB to assist the FS
Responsibilities, very simple either make the tackle or make the play on the ball, coverage depends on the reads and if you have field vision to respond, sometimes things are not cut and dry out there, so savvy comes into play which is an intangible..... and that is in the real world.

So to address the real point again PR, as we saw last year our SS was out of position playing the tight end and/or giving the CB assistance and when catching up to the play could not make the tackle enough times to frustrate the fans. Our FS was unable to make the play on the ball which is what a good FS would do if coached properly and had the ability to make the play. I hope both of these guys make the grade this year, this dialog is all based on what I saw last year....if not then lets get the guys in there that can.
It is really simple....I am done with this...thanks for playing PR

What depth to the 3-deep players line up at, generally?

That's a stupid question because if your playing a cover 3, your gonna want to discuise your coverage so the
DB's can line up pretty much where ever they want before the ball is snapped. Same goes for the SS and the FS..

It's not a stupid question. Lining up is measured at the snap of the ball, generally. Sure coverages get, or can get disguised, but when the play starts, the secondary needs to be in position.Your comment is a good indication that you don't know squat about secondary play. Generally speaking, the safety is going to be about 15 yards deep, and the corners are going to be 9 or 10 yards deep. AZ, here's one example where the corners can in fact be about 10 yards deep when the ball is snapped. They are playing deep 1/3 zone, so they need to be deep and keep everything in their zone, and adjacent zone, in front of them.

Wow! Really man? Thank god you're not a coach..You sound like little grizzly football. Get the eff out of here.

 

[PlayerRep]

What depth to the 3-deep players line up at, generally?

That's a stupid question because if your playing a cover 3, your gonna want to discuise your coverage so the
DB's can line up pretty much where ever they want before the ball is snapped. Same goes for the SS and the FS..

It's not a stupid question. Lining up is measured at the snap of the ball, generally. Sure coverages get, or can get disguised, but when the play starts, the secondary needs to be in position.Your comment is a good indication that you don't know squat about secondary play. Generally speaking, the safety is going to be about 15 yards deep, and the corners are going to be 9 or 10 yards deep. AZ, here's one example where the corners can in fact be about 10 yards deep when the ball is snapped. They are playing deep 1/3 zone, so they need to be deep and keep everything in their zone, and adjacent zone, in front of them.

Wow! Really man? Thank god you're not a coach..You sound like little grizzly football. Get the eff out of here.

You have no clue about secondary play. That's what this thread is about.

 

[Umista]

All good explanations.....but I can not watch DBs every single play to determine the coverage. I need to catch it on the replay and/or after the game etc. Yes I do catch it at times but usually it is late in the play and It did not make a squat. As a fan I tend to watch the ball during the games. I miss out on much line play and many other parts of the moving players. Watching our receivers every play is the same way. On the replay of the game they are out of the picture much of the time, ie a running play etc.

Only two more months.............

 

[Grisly Fan]

What bothered me the most was seeing the CBs line up well off the line of scrimmage (i.e. 5+ yards) on 3rd and short. The Griz often blitzed but the receivers had more than enough time to catch the ball and make the needed yardage. If ever there was a time for press coverage that was it and very rarely did the Griz do it. It seemed to get slightly tighter by the end of the year but not much. I would like to see the stat for opponent 3rd down conversion by pass on short yardage (yeah I know that is pretty specific). I bet the percentage would be much higher than average. Sure the risk for press coverage in this situation is higher but so is the reward. I felt the coaches were either so risk averse or lacked any real confidence in the corners that they were OK with giving up the 1st down conversion. It meant the D spending a lot of time on the field "bending".

 

[PlayerRep]

Okay, what's cover 4? CV? Zirge? Don't think you can find UM's version of cover 4 on the internet.

 

[grizcountry420]

Okay, what's cover 4? CV? Zirge? Don't think you can find UM's version of cover 4 on the internet.

The only thing prevent coverage does is it prevents you from winning the game.

 

[PlayerRep]

Okay, what's cover 4? CV? Zirge? Don't think you can find UM's version of cover 4 on the internet.

The only thing prevent coverage does is it prevents you from winning the game.

What does your comment have to do with cover 4?

 

[grizcountry420]

Okay, what's cover 4? CV? Zirge? Don't think you can find UM's version of cover 4 on the internet.

The only thing prevent coverage does is it prevents you from winning the game.

What does your comment have to do with cover 4?

Cover 4 is a prevent defense..

AKA- quarter defense

 

[PlayerRep]

Okay, what's cover 4? CV? Zirge? Don't think you can find UM's version of cover 4 on the internet.

The only thing prevent coverage does is it prevents you from winning the game.

What does your comment have to do with cover 4?

Cover 4 is a prevent defense..

AKA- quarter defense

No, UM's cover 4 is not a prevent defense. It is not 4-quarter deep zone. It is one of the defenses that UM blitzes from. I knew that you guys who had to go to the internet to get your information wouldn't get this right (and I warned you too).

 

[Brock Landers]

Another eGriz classic

Where is our other VIP, Growler, anyways?

 

[CV Griz Fan]

Okay, what's cover 4? CV? Zirge? Don't think you can find UM's version of cover 4 on the internet.

Ha! Nice try PR but you need to read my answer to your post again. My participation in your silly game had conditions. Quid Pro Quo Mr. Attorney. My post clearly says that if I answer your Cover 3 zone question, you have to answer my question which was " Given that your such a great football mind, why do you feel the need to mindlessly pontificate on a fan site like E-Griz which is obviously below your level of expertise? I mean it's FCS football for God's sake. Surely a man of your football knowledge could do better, right? I mean you did play Ivy League football and all. I mean I'd figure you would be a Jim Rome call in show type at least, no? Maybe even a "smack off" winner. Playing the resident E-Griz "know it all" seams so underachieving for you. Maybe that's why you defend the Griz staying at the FCS level so vigorously. You don't what to "step up" in completion level. I can't speak for Zirge and his answers but he mentioned something about "appeasing you for one last time". I believe that is what he said. I don't appease anyone. Believe me, I know a "two bit" bully when I see one. By the way, I am totally entertained by your posts so don't get the wrong idea or anything. I will continue to read and laugh at your posts. I also will continue to
enjoy the arguments that you always seem to be in the middle of. But no, unless you answer my question, I won't explain the cover 4 defense to you.

 

[grizcountry420]

The only thing prevent coverage does is it prevents you from winning the game.

What does your comment have to do with cover 4?

Cover 4 is a prevent defense..

AKA- quarter defense

No, UM's cover 4 is not a prevent defense. It is not 4-quarter deep zone. It is one of the defenses that UM blitzes from. I knew that you guys who had to go to the internet to get your information wouldn't get this right (and I warned you too).

unch:

 

[poorgriz]

Watching these guys go back and forth reminds me of the famous rap off below... but I can't figure out which oue would be PR. Probably Poppa Doc, because he gets torched. LOL :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6e9dAFBbXXU