Crapping on our Safties!

[PlayerRep]

it is not about criticizing players as it is that most fans can tell if a player is playing good or not. It is not rocket science to see if someone can cover or tackle when put in that position.
so to your point, RM, that they are a year older, that was the case last year as well. not sure your point.
why do you think that each position has try outs????? the player that can play the position best normally gets the job.......not sure what was the case with hermy and tully based on their playing ability last year....sure, some of it is coaching, especially if you asked to play 10yds off your man then you better be able to read the moves, the play, the quarterback and be a 10 flat 100 meters guy to catch up to the play.....or you are f****d
I believe most of us are talking about fundamentals with these players and this is what is not being exercised 100%....possibly way less.
i.e. you need to be fast, savvy (have field vision), make good reads, and go for the ball.. not just follow your receiver down field, and be a good fundamental tackler........we have had many in that position over recent years....do I have to name names to give you an idea of what we mean?

Zirge:

This is probably one of the best posts about the safeties that I have seen on E-Griz. It goes right to the point! A year of additional experience will not necessarily help a safety play better if he is less athletic, a poor tackler or doesn't understand
the game or his position. Tully is a good athlete but he rarely makes plays, particularly tackles. I think Hermanson understands the game, he is after all the son of a HS coach, he just isn't very athletic. Neither player has the complete tools to play the position IMO. I was hopeful when the Griz signed Van Akern for safety but that plan has changed. Maybe Gamboa and Whitted are ready. We'll see.

These posts support the prior statement that most of you don't have a clue about secondary play.

 

[CV Griz Fan]

it is not about criticizing players as it is that most fans can tell if a player is playing good or not. It is not rocket science to see if someone can cover or tackle when put in that position.
so to your point, RM, that they are a year older, that was the case last year as well. not sure your point.
why do you think that each position has try outs????? the player that can play the position best normally gets the job.......not sure what was the case with hermy and tully based on their playing ability last year....sure, some of it is coaching, especially if you asked to play 10yds off your man then you better be able to read the moves, the play, the quarterback and be a 10 flat 100 meters guy to catch up to the play.....or you are f****d
I believe most of us are talking about fundamentals with these players and this is what is not being exercised 100%....possibly way less.
i.e. you need to be fast, savvy (have field vision), make good reads, and go for the ball.. not just follow your receiver down field, and be a good fundamental tackler........we have had many in that position over recent years....do I have to name names to give you an idea of what we mean?

Zirge:

This is probably one of the best posts about the safeties that I have seen on E-Griz. It goes right to the point! A year of additional experience will not necessarily help a safety play better if he is less athletic, a poor tackler or doesn't understand
the game or his position. Tully is a good athlete but he rarely makes plays, particularly tackles. I think Hermanson understands the game, he is after all the son of a HS coach, he just isn't very athletic. Neither player has the complete tools to play the position IMO. I was hopeful when the Griz signed Van Akern for safety but that plan has changed. Maybe Gamboa and Whitted are ready. We'll see.

These posts support the prior statement that most of you don't have a clue about secondary play.

PR:

You have your options, but I can tell you with all honesty, I wouldn't want you as my attorney or my secondary coach.

 

[EverettGriz]

This thread is going to be amazing.

:lol:

 

[GrizMusician]

October 20th, 2012.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

 

[PlayerRep]

it is not about criticizing players as it is that most fans can tell if a player is playing good or not. It is not rocket science to see if someone can cover or tackle when put in that position.
so to your point, RM, that they are a year older, that was the case last year as well. not sure your point.
why do you think that each position has try outs????? the player that can play the position best normally gets the job.......not sure what was the case with hermy and tully based on their playing ability last year....sure, some of it is coaching, especially if you asked to play 10yds off your man then you better be able to read the moves, the play, the quarterback and be a 10 flat 100 meters guy to catch up to the play.....or you are f****d
I believe most of us are talking about fundamentals with these players and this is what is not being exercised 100%....possibly way less.
i.e. you need to be fast, savvy (have field vision), make good reads, and go for the ball.. not just follow your receiver down field, and be a good fundamental tackler........we have had many in that position over recent years....do I have to name names to give you an idea of what we mean?

Zirge:

This is probably one of the best posts about the safeties that I have seen on E-Griz. It goes right to the point! A year of additional experience will not necessarily help a safety play better if he is less athletic, a poor tackler or doesn't understand
the game or his position. Tully is a good athlete but he rarely makes plays, particularly tackles. I think Hermanson understands the game, he is after all the son of a HS coach, he just isn't very athletic. Neither player has the complete tools to play the position IMO. I was hopeful when the Griz signed Van Akern for safety but that plan has changed. Maybe Gamboa and Whitted are ready. We'll see.

These posts support the prior statement that most of you don't have a clue about secondary play.

PR:

You have your options, but I can tell you with all honesty, I wouldn't want you as my attorney or my secondary coach.

Fair enough. You couldn't afford to hire me, nor make my team, so really a moot point.

 

[Spanky]

CV....You may not know that Player was an excellent college football player in the defensive secondary....

 

[CV Griz Fan]

CV....You may not know that Player was an excellent college football player in the defensive secondary....

CV....You may not know that Player was an excellent college football player in the defensive secondary....

Spanky:

Yes I know about PR's 1960's Ivy League days. I laughed many times about Growler's rants about him. If his legal mind is as irrelevant as his football analysis, PR is in big trouble.

 

[poorgriz]

Ha ha... PR was an incredible DB back in the day. Heck, he still is! LOl!

 

[CV Griz Fan]

Zirge:

This is probably one of the best posts about the safeties that I have seen on E-Griz. It goes right to the point! A year of additional experience will not necessarily help a safety play better if he is less athletic, a poor tackler or doesn't understand
the game or his position. Tully is a good athlete but he rarely makes plays, particularly tackles. I think Hermanson understands the game, he is after all the son of a HS coach, he just isn't very athletic. Neither player has the complete tools to play the position IMO. I was hopeful when the Griz signed Van Akern for safety but that plan has changed. Maybe Gamboa and Whitted are ready. We'll see.

These posts support the prior statement that most of you don't have a clue about secondary play.

PR:

You have your options, but I can tell you with all honesty, I wouldn't want you as my attorney or my secondary coach.

Fair enough. You couldn't afford to hire me, nor make my team, so really a moot point.

PR:
Yes, at my age, I'd have trouble making a "beer league" softball team. Since I have never needed an attorney, I wouldn't know what I'd be willing to pay for one. But I do know this, if you are really as great as you think you are, you wouldn't be wasting your time playing a " big fish in a small pond" character. Isn't there a NFL fan site you can join or what about a larger more significant metro area to practice law in?

 

[zirge]

I line up with Rock on this one. Some of the comments in this thread actually support what Rock said. Safeties are supposed to line up 10 or so yards deep in most defenses. (By the way, it is absolutely not true that the corners lined up 10 yards deep last year. That's just BS.) Most of the time (i.e. when not in "man" coverage), the d-back doesn't have a man to follow and defend. The d-back has a zone to cover. Some of you think you understand secondary play, but few actually do, and the ignorance regarding secondary play on this board is very evident. If you don't know what defense the secondary is playing on the play, and in some cases what the particular nuances are of the defense, you probably aren't going to know who made a mistake on a completed pass. Case in point. The defender closest to the completed pass is not necessarily the player who made the mistake.

Let me ask you this...once the ball left the opposing q.b.'s hand and is possessed down field how would you rate the tackling downfield? please make your answer < 50 words. :egriz:

Needed improvement. Players weren't reacting quickly enough to the play at times, so were not in ideal position at time tackle needed to be made and didn't make some tackles they needed to make. Being even slightly not in ideal position increases the chances of a missed tackle or a poor tackle. Reaction time improved late in season.

They were also not in position to make the play on the ball either, most of the time. For what it is worth I played DB and Safety as well, but that is not the point whether you played or not it is about what was happening out on the field last year......coverage 2 or 3 or whatever, these guys were out of position more times than not.....does not the scores and yardage racked up by the opposing teams prove some of this. Last years record compared to the last 10 yrs should be proof as well.....yes last year we had QB lack of leadership, poor play calling from time to time but the biggest eyesore was our safeties when it came to making the big plays on coverages and tackling....I imagine not many people let the game saying.......we have amazing safeties. PR can you relate to this???
It is not precisely about Hermy or Tully, yes they have to play or not as Krammer sugguests, I also put the some of the inconsistencies on the coaching.......but fundamentals and making reads either makes you or breaks you.
hopefully we will have better safety play this year and i believe as others that the coaching change would help us achieve this.....i said it on one of the spring scrimmage threads and stand by it now, as we are not in fall practice yet, but gamboa (speed, nose for the ball and fundamentals) and whitted (reads, coverage and fundamentals) showed me what I would like to see more of this coming year. we will see...if i know anything about football and the defensive approach to the game.

 

[Spanky]

Zirge: I agree that safety play must improve, but so does WR which should with JJ. We are going to have a very good team this year. By the way, I played high school football. Does that qualify me to comment?

 

[AZGrizFan]

I line up with Rock on this one. Some of the comments in this thread actually support what Rock said. Safeties are supposed to line up 10 or so yards deep in most defenses. (By the way, it is absolutely not true that the corners lined up 10 yards deep last year. That's just BS.) Most of the time (i.e. when not in "man" coverage), the d-back doesn't have a man to follow and defend. The d-back has a zone to cover. Some of you think you understand secondary play, but few actually do, and the ignorance regarding secondary play on this board is very evident. If you don't know what defense the secondary is playing on the play, and in some cases what the particular nuances are of the defense, you probably aren't going to know who made a mistake on a completed pass. Case in point. The defender closest to the completed pass is not necessarily the player who made the mistake.

I tracked it one game....there were a total of NINE defensive plays where the corners were LESS than seven yards from the line of scrimmage and more than sixty in that game where they were anywhere from seven to ten yards off the line. True that's a one game sample but I don't think it differed much throughout the year.

 

[PlayerRep]

I line up with Rock on this one. Some of the comments in this thread actually support what Rock said. Safeties are supposed to line up 10 or so yards deep in most defenses. (By the way, it is absolutely not true that the corners lined up 10 yards deep last year. That's just BS.) Most of the time (i.e. when not in "man" coverage), the d-back doesn't have a man to follow and defend. The d-back has a zone to cover. Some of you think you understand secondary play, but few actually do, and the ignorance regarding secondary play on this board is very evident. If you don't know what defense the secondary is playing on the play, and in some cases what the particular nuances are of the defense, you probably aren't going to know who made a mistake on a completed pass. Case in point. The defender closest to the completed pass is not necessarily the player who made the mistake.

I tracked it one game....there were a total of NINE defensive plays where the corners were LESS than seven yards from the line of scrimmage and more than sixty in that game where they were anywhere from seven to ten yards off the line. True that's a one game sample but I don't think it differed much throughout the year.

Corners are frequently 7 or 8 yards off of the ball. That's the normal position for corners. Your statement is meaningless. The corners were probably 7 - 10 yards off the ball almost the whole game. The corners are not 10 yards off the ball.

 

[PlayerRep]

For Zirge and CV. Let's test your self-proclaimed knowledge of secondary play. Tell us where the secondary lines up in cover 3, i.e. who lines up where. And what are their general responsibilities?

 

[CV Griz Fan]

For Zirge and CV. Let's test your self-proclaimed knowledge of secondary play. Tell us where the secondary lines up in cover 3, i.e. who lines up where. And what are their general responsibilities?

PR:

I'll take a stab at your challenge if you'll answer my question. Why, if you are such a great football mind, to you continue mindlessly pontificate on a FBS fan site like E-Griz? Why don't you challenge yourself with other great football minds? Attempting to be the resident "know it all"/ "bully" on E-Griz would seem to be beneath a man of your football knowledge, no?

Cover 3 Zone-
3 players divide the field in thirds. CB's and FS. CB's have deep third sidelines while FS has deep middle. SS, by the way,usually has the responsibility for the flat. CB's line up normally while the FS is deeper over the middle. Designed to prevent "big plays" and offer more run support.

 

[zirge]

For Zirge and CV. Let's test your self-proclaimed knowledge of secondary play. Tell us where the secondary lines up in cover 3, i.e. who lines up where. And what are their general responsibilities?

PR:

I'll take a stab at your challenge if you'll answer my question. Why, if you are such a great football mind, to you continue mindlessly pontificate on a FBS fan site like E-Griz? Why don't you challenge yourself with other great football minds? Attempting to be the resident "know it all"/ "bully" on E-Griz would seem to be beneath a man of your football knowledge, no?

Cover 3 Zone-
3 players divide the field in thirds. CB's and FS. CB's have deep third sidelines while FS has deep middle. SS, by the way,usually has the responsibility for the flat. CB's line up normally while the FS is deeper over the middle. Designed to prevent "big plays" and offer more run support.

Thanks CV....just to add a little more to appease PR for the last time.
SS lines ups across from the TE and to assist the CB with the OLB to assist the CB and MLB to assist the FS
Responsibilities, very simple either make the tackle or make the play on the ball, coverage depends on the reads and if you have field vision to respond, sometimes things are not cut and dry out there, so savvy comes into play which is an intangible..... and that is in the real world.

So to address the real point again PR, as we saw last year our SS was out of position playing the tight end and/or giving the CB assistance and when catching up to the play could not make the tackle enough times to frustrate the fans. Our FS was unable to make the play on the ball which is what a good FS would do if coached properly and had the ability to make the play. I hope both of these guys make the grade this year, this dialog is all based on what I saw last year....if not then lets get the guys in there that can.
It is really simple....I am done with this...thanks for playing PR

 

[PlayerRep]

For Zirge and CV. Let's test your self-proclaimed knowledge of secondary play. Tell us where the secondary lines up in cover 3, i.e. who lines up where. And what are their general responsibilities?

PR:

I'll take a stab at your challenge if you'll answer my question. Why, if you are such a great football mind, to you continue mindlessly pontificate on a FBS fan site like E-Griz? Why don't you challenge yourself with other great football minds? Attempting to be the resident "know it all"/ "bully" on E-Griz would seem to be beneath a man of your football knowledge, no?

Cover 3 Zone-
3 players divide the field in thirds. CB's and FS. CB's have deep third sidelines while FS has deep middle. SS, by the way,usually has the responsibility for the flat. CB's line up normally while the FS is deeper over the middle. Designed to prevent "big plays" and offer more run support.

Thanks CV....just to add a little more to appease PR for the last time.
SS lines ups across from the TE and to assist the CB with the OLB to assist the CB and MLB to assist the FS
Responsibilities, very simple either make the tackle or make the play on the ball, coverage depends on the reads and if you have field vision to respond, sometimes things are not cut and dry out there, so savvy comes into play which is an intangible..... and that is in the real world.

So to address the real point again PR, as we saw last year our SS was out of position playing the tight end and/or giving the CB assistance and when catching up to the play could not make the tackle enough times to frustrate the fans. Our FS was unable to make the play on the ball which is what a good FS would do if coached properly and had the ability to make the play. I hope both of these guys make the grade this year, this dialog is all based on what I saw last year....if not then lets get the guys in there that can.
It is really simple....I am done with this...thanks for playing PR

What depth to the 3-deep players line up at, generally?

 

[grizcountry420]

For Zirge and CV. Let's test your self-proclaimed knowledge of secondary play. Tell us where the secondary lines up in cover 3, i.e. who lines up where. And what are their general responsibilities?

PR:

I'll take a stab at your challenge if you'll answer my question. Why, if you are such a great football mind, to you continue mindlessly pontificate on a FBS fan site like E-Griz? Why don't you challenge yourself with other great football minds? Attempting to be the resident "know it all"/ "bully" on E-Griz would seem to be beneath a man of your football knowledge, no?

Cover 3 Zone-
3 players divide the field in thirds. CB's and FS. CB's have deep third sidelines while FS has deep middle. SS, by the way,usually has the responsibility for the flat. CB's line up normally while the FS is deeper over the middle. Designed to prevent "big plays" and offer more run support.

Thanks CV....just to add a little more to appease PR for the last time.
SS lines ups across from the TE and to assist the CB with the OLB to assist the CB and MLB to assist the FS
Responsibilities, very simple either make the tackle or make the play on the ball, coverage depends on the reads and if you have field vision to respond, sometimes things are not cut and dry out there, so savvy comes into play which is an intangible..... and that is in the real world.

So to address the real point again PR, as we saw last year our SS was out of position playing the tight end and/or giving the CB assistance and when catching up to the play could not make the tackle enough times to frustrate the fans. Our FS was unable to make the play on the ball which is what a good FS would do if coached properly and had the ability to make the play. I hope both of these guys make the grade this year, this dialog is all based on what I saw last year....if not then lets get the guys in there that can.
It is really simple....I am done with this...thanks for playing PR

What depth to the 3-deep players line up at, generally?

That's a stupid question because if your playing a cover 3, your gonna want to discuise your coverage so the
DB's can line up pretty much where ever they want before the ball is snapped. Same goes for the SS and the FS..

 

[Redonkuless1]

it is not about criticizing players as it is that most fans can tell if a player is playing good or not. It is not rocket science to see if someone can cover or tackle when put in that position.
so to your point, RM, that they are a year older, that was the case last year as well. not sure your point.
why do you think that each position has try outs????? the player that can play the position best normally gets the job.......not sure what was the case with hermy and tully based on their playing ability last year....sure, some of it is coaching, especially if you asked to play 10yds off your man then you better be able to read the moves, the play, the quarterback and be a 10 flat 100 meters guy to catch up to the play.....or you are f****d
I believe most of us are talking about fundamentals with these players and this is what is not being exercised 100%....possibly way less.
i.e. you need to be fast, savvy (have field vision), make good reads, and go for the ball.. not just follow your receiver down field, and be a good fundamental tackler........we have had many in that position over recent years....do I have to name names to give you an idea of what we mean?

Zirge:

This is probably one of the best posts about the safeties that I have seen on E-Griz. It goes right to the point! A year of additional experience will not necessarily help a safety play better if he is less athletic, a poor tackler or doesn't understand
the game or his position. Tully is a good athlete but he rarely makes plays, particularly tackles. I think Hermanson understands the game, he is after all the son of a HS coach, he just isn't very athletic. Neither player has the complete tools to play the position IMO. I was hopeful when the Griz signed Van Akern for safety but that plan has changed. Maybe Gamboa and Whitted are ready. We'll see.

These posts support the prior statement that most of you don't have a clue about secondary play.

PR:

You have your options, but I can tell you with all honesty, I wouldn't want you as my attorney or my secondary coach.

:lol: :clap:

 

[AZGrizFan]

I line up with Rock on this one. Some of the comments in this thread actually support what Rock said. Safeties are supposed to line up 10 or so yards deep in most defenses. (By the way, it is absolutely not true that the corners lined up 10 yards deep last year. That's just BS.) Most of the time (i.e. when not in "man" coverage), the d-back doesn't have a man to follow and defend. The d-back has a zone to cover. Some of you think you understand secondary play, but few actually do, and the ignorance regarding secondary play on this board is very evident. If you don't know what defense the secondary is playing on the play, and in some cases what the particular nuances are of the defense, you probably aren't going to know who made a mistake on a completed pass. Case in point. The defender closest to the completed pass is not necessarily the player who made the mistake.

I tracked it one game....there were a total of NINE defensive plays where the corners were LESS than seven yards from the line of scrimmage and more than sixty in that game where they were anywhere from seven to ten yards off the line. True that's a one game sample but I don't think it differed much throughout the year.

Corners are frequently 7 or 8 yards off of the ball. That's the normal position for corners. Your statement is meaningless. The corners were probably 7 - 10 yards off the ball almost the whole game. The corners are not 10 yards off the ball.

My point, which you conveniently ignored, was that our corners play press coverage less than 1 in 7 defensive plays. Since you seem to be able to shit football statistics, is that normal, above or below average?