Covid Updates - Not Politics

[MikeyGriz]

Yeah, because this guy doesn't wear a lab coat and have some letters behind his name, he is incapable of doing meaningful research and making informed opinions about any subjects that don't agree with yours. He must automatically be dismissed on all fronts without even considering his data/arguments. :roll:

Mikey, if you’re going to the hospital with a serious medical issue, and they tell you, “We’re out of medically trained physicians to help you, but this random guy did some independent research and thinks he can help” are you going to accept treatment or find somewhere else?

So we should always blindly follow the "experts", even when they say, nothing to worry here, no need to mask up, go out to eat with the crowd, take your vacation, this virus is no big deal, children are not significantly effected. Or the same people say the sky is falling, wear two or three masks, stay home and hunker down, children are massively effected.

 

[MikeyGriz]

Yeah, because this guy doesn't wear a lab coat and have some letters behind his name, he is incapable of doing meaningful research and making informed opinions about any subjects that don't agree with yours. He must automatically be dismissed on all fronts without even considering his data/arguments. :roll:

Hey, anyone is entitled to their opinion. As for me, when my furnace breaks I call a HVAC specialist. When my car breaks, I take it to a certified mechanic. When there’s a pandemic which is killing people, I listen to infectious disease experts.

So you just call the expert? You don't try to do any investigation on your own? Maybe it's something easy, like a blown fuse that you can fix yourself. Or maybe you can come up with some additional information that can help the expert fix the problem. What if the expert can't fix it, do you just give up or maybe try to find another expert that may be able to fix the problem?

 

[EverettGriz]

Mikey, if you’re going to the hospital with a serious medical issue, and they tell you, “We’re out of medically trained physicians to help you, but this random guy did some independent research and thinks he can help” are you going to accept treatment or find somewhere else?

So we should always blindly follow the "experts", even when they say, nothing to worry here, no need to mask up, go out to eat with the crowd, take your vacation, this virus is no big deal, children are not significantly effected. Or the same people say the sky is falling, wear two or three masks, stay home and hunker down, children are massively effected.

At the risk of sounding like a dick (I truly am not trying to be), I don't understand the point of your post. Are you suggesting that because the experts' recommendations changed as more information became available, they should be discounted or ignored?

Piggybacking on CDA's example, let's assume your go in for what your surgeon calls "routine gall bladder surgery". But when she gets in, she realizes you also have an intestinal blockage. Would you not want her to change her prognosis at that point?

 

[EverettGriz]

Hey, anyone is entitled to their opinion. As for me, when my furnace breaks I call a HVAC specialist. When my car breaks, I take it to a certified mechanic. When there’s a pandemic which is killing people, I listen to infectious disease experts.

So you just call the expert? You don't try to do any investigation on your own? Maybe it's something easy, like a blown fuse that you can fix yourself. Or maybe you can come up with some additional information that can help the expert fix the problem. What if the expert can't fix it, do you just give up or maybe try to find another expert that may be able to fix the problem?

Of course I do. And it took me about 1.3 seconds of my own investigation to determine I couldn't stop a global pandemic and it was time to turn it over to the experts.

 

[Bear Spray]

The bummer part to me in all of this is there are “sides”, and both “sides” want to see the other fail more than they want their own to succeed. (Not talking about present company). I personally think everyone should get vaccinated even if it’s only 20% effective. To some, that opinion seems to have implications on whom or what I vote/voted for and all of my stances on all political issues. I’m automatically on a “side”.

My opinion on a vaccine doesn’t mean I think anti-vax people are deplorable. I might think they are I’ll-informed, and that’s my prerogative just as it’s theirs to not get vaccinated. It doesn’t mean I’m a communist who wants to take away guns and teach CRT to toddlers. It’s increasingly all or nothing with the “sides” and I hate it.

Agreed, until we come together, Covid & the dividing politicians gain ground. If we shut down again, will those same politicians blame those who wore masks & are vaccinated? If you don't want to be vaccinated it's your choice, but you're also propagating the outbreak. That's not the blame game, it's a fact. So how do we come together & solve the riddle? Japan & South Korea are 2 open societies, allies, one with our constitution, with combined populations of 177MM & covid deaths at 18,000 +/- to date. Compare this to the US population of 327MM and 600,000 deaths. Since 2000 Japan & SK have gone through Mers twice, H1N1, Sars, & Dengue fever & Covid 19 outbreaks. They're willing to wear masks & take vaccines to protect themselves & beat back the outbreaks because they have experience & they know what works. The numbers don't lie. But instead of looking to allies to see what's actually been successful, our leaders have intentionally politicized a health issue. I fear we'll have to have our asses handed to us for a few more Covid iterations until it gets bad enough for the unvaxed to go over to the dark side.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Mikey, if you’re going to the hospital with a serious medical issue, and they tell you, “We’re out of medically trained physicians to help you, but this random guy did some independent research and thinks he can help” are you going to accept treatment or find somewhere else?

So we should always blindly follow the "experts", even when they say, nothing to worry here, no need to mask up, go out to eat with the crowd, take your vacation, this virus is no big deal, children are not significantly effected. Or the same people say the sky is falling, wear two or three masks, stay home and hunker down, children are massively effected.

I don’t understand, Mikey. Are you saying you would let the random guy treat you?

 

[3-7-77]

Mikey, if you’re going to the hospital with a serious medical issue, and they tell you, “We’re out of medically trained physicians to help you, but this random guy did some independent research and thinks he can help” are you going to accept treatment or find somewhere else?

So we should always blindly follow the "experts", even when they say, nothing to worry here, no need to mask up, go out to eat with the crowd, take your vacation, this virus is no big deal, children are not significantly effected. Or the same people say the sky is falling, wear two or three masks, stay home and hunker down, children are massively effected.

I got me a new expert who says if we just drop a young teen virgin into Mauna Loa the gods will be pleased and the plague will go away. I questioned his wisdom, and after some thought, he thought the gods would settle for Fauci being thrown into the volcano. Anybody seen that MF?

 

[argh!]

So we should always blindly follow the "experts", even when they say, nothing to worry here, no need to mask up, go out to eat with the crowd, take your vacation, this virus is no big deal, children are not significantly effected. Or the same people say the sky is falling, wear two or three masks, stay home and hunker down, children are massively effected.

I got me a new expert who says if we just drop a young teen virgin into Mauna Loa the gods will be pleased and the plague will go away. I questioned his wisdom, and after some thought, he thought the gods would settle for Fauci being thrown into the volcano. Anybody seen that MF?

a virgin? there's a guy who goes by 'mikey', so he's gotta be one. plus he's an expert in virology, epidemiology, and public health. whaddya say, mikey? take one for the team?

 

[MikeyGriz]

So we should always blindly follow the "experts", even when they say, nothing to worry here, no need to mask up, go out to eat with the crowd, take your vacation, this virus is no big deal, children are not significantly effected. Or the same people say the sky is falling, wear two or three masks, stay home and hunker down, children are massively effected.

I got me a new expert who says if we just drop a young teen virgin into Mauna Loa the gods will be pleased and the plague will go away. I questioned his wisdom, and after some thought, he thought the gods would settle for Fauci being thrown into the volcano. Anybody seen that MF?

Probably more so because of the difficulty in finding a young teen virgin!

 

[MikeyGriz]

So we should always blindly follow the "experts", even when they say, nothing to worry here, no need to mask up, go out to eat with the crowd, take your vacation, this virus is no big deal, children are not significantly effected. Or the same people say the sky is falling, wear two or three masks, stay home and hunker down, children are massively effected.

I don’t understand, Mikey. Are you saying you would let the random guy treat you?

No, I just don't see the wisdom in automatically following the appointed expert's every utterance when it's clear there may be more information to be gathered first from other sources.

 

[MikeyGriz]

So we should always blindly follow the "experts", even when they say, nothing to worry here, no need to mask up, go out to eat with the crowd, take your vacation, this virus is no big deal, children are not significantly effected. Or the same people say the sky is falling, wear two or three masks, stay home and hunker down, children are massively effected.

At the risk of sounding like a dick (I truly am not trying to be), I don't understand the point of your post. Are you suggesting that because the experts' recommendations changed as more information became available, they should be discounted or ignored?

Piggybacking on CDA's example, let's assume your go in for what your surgeon calls "routine gall bladder surgery". But when she gets in, she realizes you also have an intestinal blockage. Would you not want her to change her prognosis at that point?

Neither am I trying to be dickish. When the surgeon finds additional information, do they sometimes switch to another expert to remedy the situation?

 

[MikeyGriz]

I got me a new expert who says if we just drop a young teen virgin into Mauna Loa the gods will be pleased and the plague will go away. I questioned his wisdom, and after some thought, he thought the gods would settle for Fauci being thrown into the volcano. Anybody seen that MF?

a virgin? there's a guy who goes by 'mikey', so he's gotta be one. plus he's an expert in virology, epidemiology, and public health. whaddya say, mikey? take one for the team?

Which team, us or them?

 

[EverettGriz]

I don’t understand, Mikey. Are you saying you would let the random guy treat you?

No, I just don't see the wisdom in automatically following the appointed expert's every utterance when it's clear there may be more information to be gathered first from other sources.

Okay this is fair.

But now we know for an absolute fact that the vaccines are safe and effective, particularly at limiting hospitalizations and deaths. It's not just experts saying that, it's proven statistical fact. I've stated many times I understood those who were reticent about the vax initially. But now? There is just no reason not to get it.

 

[argh!]

a virgin? there's a guy who goes by 'mikey', so he's gotta be one. plus he's an expert in virology, epidemiology, and public health. whaddya say, mikey? take one for the team?

Which team, us or them?

up to you.

 

[kemajic]

170 pages is not out of reach. Especially going in circles....

 

[3-7-77]

Six more days and football talk will pull the plug on this topic.

 

[MikeyGriz]

Which team, us or them?

up to you.

Only if you go with me

 

[poorgriz]

No, I just don't see the wisdom in automatically following the appointed expert's every utterance when it's clear there may be more information to be gathered first from other sources.

Okay this is fair.

But now we know for an absolute fact that the vaccines are safe and effective, particularly at limiting hospitalizations and deaths. It's not just experts saying that, it's proven statistical fact. I've stated many times I understood those who were reticent about the vax initially. But now? There is just no reason not to get it.

Incorrect, on a couple levels. First, people that have recovered from Covid should not be getting the vaccine (depending on the time frame). If you respond by quoting an "expert" saying the opposite if this, I'll respond by quoting my own "experts". Lots and lots of super smart doctors and scientists don't agree with Fauci and the CDC. Second, this vaccine isn't doing very well against the delta variant. Take a look at Israel. That is a great example, because unlike the U.S. and much of the rest of the world, they actually have pretty good data on this whole deal. Our data sucks balls.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Six more days and football talk will pull the plug on this topic.

I’ll take that bet.

 

[grizindabox]

Okay this is fair.

But now we know for an absolute fact that the vaccines are safe and effective, particularly at limiting hospitalizations and deaths. It's not just experts saying that, it's proven statistical fact. I've stated many times I understood those who were reticent about the vax initially. But now? There is just no reason not to get it.

Incorrect, on a couple levels. First, people that have recovered from Covid should not be getting the vaccine (depending on the time frame). If you respond by quoting an "expert" saying the opposite if this, I'll respond by quoting my own "experts". Lots and lots of super smart doctors and scientists don't agree with Fauci and the CDC. Second, this vaccine isn't doing very well against the delta variant. Take a look at Israel. That is a great example, because unlike the U.S. and much of the rest of the world, they actually have pretty good data on this whole deal. Our data sucks balls.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/20/1029628471/highly-vaccinated-israel-is-seeing-a-dramatic-surge-in-new-covid-cases-heres-why

Seems vaccination rate and lack of a booster are the issues, not that the vaccine isn't effective. Also seems that the vaccination is more effective than going unvaccinated.

https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/569730-covid-19-vaccines-work-misreading-the-data-can-make-you-think-otherwise

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-finds-covid-19-vaccine-booster-significantly-lowers-infection-risk-2021-08-22/