A little roster update

[HelenaHandBasket]

You are more than welcome to your opinion, and you certainly don't have to agree with mine. But in all of FCS history, there has only been one program that consistently makes the final 4 every year over a decade. My only point to you would be that we cannot re-write history and pretend we EVER did that, so to call it the standard is just not realistic. Read didn't do it. Dennehy didn't do it. Glenn almost did it, but he was only here 3 years. Bobby 1.0 didn't do it. There has never been a Griz coach getting their team to the semi-finals every year, and being considered a failure if they didn't.

As I said, you are more than welcome to your opinion. I truly hope we reach that point. I just don't think we can start setting a standard that has never before been the standard, and telling ourselves we are failing if we don't hit it.

This is what irks some or many on here - the expectations of this fan base used to be sooooo much higher. Now - many settle for getting some wins and quickly exiting the bracket.

Mine has remained consistent...

I would say "stuck in the past" as well.

 

[ElrodGrizzly]

You are more than welcome to your opinion, and you certainly don't have to agree with mine. But in all of FCS history, there has only been one program that consistently makes the final 4 every year over a decade. My only point to you would be that we cannot re-write history and pretend we EVER did that, so to call it the standard is just not realistic. Read didn't do it. Dennehy didn't do it. Glenn almost did it, but he was only here 3 years. Bobby 1.0 didn't do it. There has never been a Griz coach getting their team to the semi-finals every year, and being considered a failure if they didn't.

As I said, you are more than welcome to your opinion. I truly hope we reach that point. I just don't think we can start setting a standard that has never before been the standard, and telling ourselves we are failing if we don't hit it.

This is what irks some or many on here - the expectations of this fan base used to be sooooo much higher. Now - many settle for getting some wins and quickly exiting the bracket.

Mine has remained consistent...

I'm sure you have been a fan for as long or longer than I have, but I have been a Griz fan for as long as I can remember. My dad and one of his friends taking me to games are some of my earliest memories. I was absolutely blessed to grow up with my formative years coming during our national championship era. I was borderline obsessed. And I don't EVER remember the fan base having expectations of 11 wins and the semi's every year or it isn't enough. Even during our absolute peak, we just weren't doing that.

Now, as you have said, your opinion and expectations are yours. I don't hate on you for having them. I absolutely hope we achieve that level. Truly, I hope we meet your expectations. I just don't think that we can realistically set an "expectation" that we have never before achieved. I'm super down with those being our goals, though, and I hope we get there.

 

[SoldierGriz]

This is what irks some or many on here - the expectations of this fan base used to be sooooo much higher. Now - many settle for getting some wins and quickly exiting the bracket.

Mine has remained consistent...

I would say "stuck in the past" as well.

Stuck in the muck of the present...wishing for the past.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Well I just figured that was the game HHB was playing. Coming to conclusions no one is making. It’s fun. Try it.

it amazes me how many people think that 10-win seasons should be the new standard.

So is 10 wins good or bad?

10 wins MIGHT get you into the quarterfinals. If that’s your ultimate goal more power to you. Personally I’d like to see us perform at a higher level than that on a semi-regular basis. After a 20+ year run where EVERY freshman class played in at least one NC game, the Griz now haven’t been in an NC game in 14 years. Haven’t sniffed the quarterfinals in 12. Hell, haven’t won a BSC title since 2011 (I believe).

I’m not looking for or expecting NC’s every year. But fuck, at least be competitive for them periodically. Priding ourselves and beating our chests for 10 win seasons in a watered down FCS just shows how far the bar has been lowered.

 

[Da Boyz Mom]

So is 10 wins good or bad?

10 wins MIGHT get you into the quarterfinals. If that’s your ultimate goal more power to you. Personally I’d like to see us perform at a higher level than that on a semi-regular basis. After a 20+ year run where EVERY freshman class played in at least one NC game, the Griz now haven’t been in an NC game in 14 years.
Haven’t sniffed the quarterfinals in 12. Hell, haven’t won a BSC title since 2011 (I believe).

I’m not looking for or expecting NC’s every year. But fudge, at least be competitive for them periodically. Priding ourselves and beating our chests for 10 win seasons in a watered down FCS just shows how far the bar has been lowered.

We played JMU in the quarters in 2021.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

So is 10 wins good or bad?

10 wins MIGHT get you into the quarterfinals. If that’s your ultimate goal more power to you. Personally I’d like to see us perform at a higher level than that on a semi-regular basis. After a 20+ year run where EVERY freshman class played in at least one NC game, the Griz now haven’t been in an NC game in 14 years. Haven’t sniffed the quarterfinals in 12. Hell, haven’t won a BSC title since 2011 (I believe).

I’m not looking for or expecting NC’s every year. But fudge, at least be competitive for them periodically. Priding ourselves and beating our chests for 10 win seasons in a watered down FCS just shows how far the bar has been lowered.

So for you the answer is no. It also doesn't matter if you think FCS is watered down, it is what it currently is. I guess you only want watered down championships.

 

[Alaska Griz]

10 wins MIGHT get you into the quarterfinals. If that’s your ultimate goal more power to you. Personally I’d like to see us perform at a higher level than that on a semi-regular basis. After a 20+ year run where EVERY freshman class played in at least one NC game, the Griz now haven’t been in an NC game in 14 years.
Haven’t sniffed the quarterfinals in 12. Hell, haven’t won a BSC title since 2011 (I believe).

I’m not looking for or expecting NC’s every year. But fudge, at least be competitive for them periodically. Priding ourselves and beating our chests for 10 win seasons in a watered down FCS just shows how far the bar has been lowered.

We played JMU in the quarters in 2021.

And Weber st. in the quarters in 2019.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

So is 10 wins good or bad?

10 wins MIGHT get you into the quarterfinals. If that’s your ultimate goal more power to you. Personally I’d like to see us perform at a higher level than that on a semi-regular basis. After a 20+ year run where EVERY freshman class played in at least one NC game, the Griz now haven’t been in an NC game in 14 years. Haven’t sniffed the quarterfinals in 12. Hell, haven’t won a BSC title since 2011 (I believe).

I’m not looking for or expecting NC’s every year. But fuck, at least be competitive for them periodically. Priding ourselves and beating our chests for 10 win seasons in a watered down FCS just shows how far the bar has been lowered.

I really don’t think the FCS is “watered down”. Yes, some/most of the traditional big name programs have moved up, but I believe the overall talent of players in general and the number of them has skyrocketed.

As the amount of money involved in big-time CFB has increased in the past ~20 years, so has the level of access to coaching, resources, camps, research, etc. from a young age. The names of the programs might be different, but the overall talent is (to me) the highest it’s ever been. I don’t think HS JV teams had cameras in the booth streaming the All-22 to flatscreens on the sidelines so position coaches could make adjustments 20 years ago. That happens regularly now. The great players are better, and there are more of them. Just my opinion.

 

[oldrunner]

So is 10 wins good or bad?

Priding ourselves and beating our chests for 10 win seasons in a watered down FCS just shows how far the bar has been lowered.

I think it is actually the opposite of that. The FCS is stronger now than it was in the past. To get to the level we all want to be at takes more than it used to.

 

[Spanky2]

10 wins MIGHT get you into the quarterfinals. If that’s your ultimate goal more power to you. Personally I’d like to see us perform at a higher level than that on a semi-regular basis. After a 20+ year run where EVERY freshman class played in at least one NC game, the Griz now haven’t been in an NC game in 14 years. Haven’t sniffed the quarterfinals in 12. Hell, haven’t won a BSC title since 2011 (I believe).

I’m not looking for or expecting NC’s every year. But fudge, at least be competitive for them periodically. Priding ourselves and beating our chests for 10 win seasons in a watered down FCS just shows how far the bar has been lowered.

I really don’t think the FCS is “watered down”. Yes, some/most of the traditional big name programs have moved up, but I believe the overall talent of players in general and the number of them has skyrocketed.

As the amount of money involved in big-time CFB has increased in the past ~20 years, so has the level of access to coaching, resources, camps, research, etc. from a young age. The names of the programs might be different, but the overall talent is (to me) the highest it’s ever been. I don’t think HS JV teams had cameras in the booth streaming the All-22 to flatscreens on the sidelines so position coaches could make adjustments 20 years ago. That happens regularly now. The great players are better, and there are more of them. Just my opinion.

Are you suggesting that FCS is big time college football?

 

[CDAGRIZ]

I really don’t think the FCS is “watered down”. Yes, some/most of the traditional big name programs have moved up, but I believe the overall talent of players in general and the number of them has skyrocketed.

As the amount of money involved in big-time CFB has increased in the past ~20 years, so has the level of access to coaching, resources, camps, research, etc. from a young age. The names of the programs might be different, but the overall talent is (to me) the highest it’s ever been. I don’t think HS JV teams had cameras in the booth streaming the All-22 to flatscreens on the sidelines so position coaches could make adjustments 20 years ago. That happens regularly now. The great players are better, and there are more of them. Just my opinion.

Are you suggesting that FCS is big time college football?

Not a chance. I’m suggesting that the level of athletes at the top of the FCS in 2023 would’ve likely played big time college football 20+ years ago. Like any sport, they are better on average, and there are more of them.

 

[Spanky2]

Are you suggesting that FCS is big time college football?

Not a chance. I’m suggesting that the level of athletes at the top of the FCS in 2023 would’ve likely played big time college football 20+ years ago. Like any sport, they are better on average, and there are more of them.

I’m almost afraid to post as we will quickly hear from Helena and his clone 1122. I disagree with you, however, as I don’t see the FCS talent today (with exceptions) coming close to the best players of college football twenty years ago.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Not a chance. I’m suggesting that the level of athletes at the top of the FCS in 2023 would’ve likely played big time college football 20+ years ago. Like any sport, they are better on average, and there are more of them.

I’m almost afraid to post as we will quickly hear from Helena and his clone 1122. I disagree with you, however, as I don’t see the FCS talent today (with exceptions) coming close to the best players of college football twenty years ago.

Spanky, that’s not what I’m saying. I’m not saying the Payton Award winner would’ve been a Heisman finalist 20+ years ago. I’m saying he probably wouldn’t have been playing FCS 20+ years ago. If you think if we gave a HS senior Trey Lance a Time Machine back to 1998 he would play FCS (DI-AA then) FB, I’m not sure what to say to that.

You see it in every sport. There are guys currently on the Korn Ferry Tour who would win multiple tournaments per year in the Big Show in the 1990s.

I guess my main point is: The players who can “only” play FCS are better now, even if the programs have different names. My opinion.

 

[Spanky2]

I’m almost afraid to post as we will quickly hear from Helena and his clone 1122. I disagree with you, however, as I don’t see the FCS talent today (with exceptions) coming close to the best players of college football twenty years ago.

Spanky, that’s not what I’m saying. I’m not saying the Payton Award winner would’ve been a Heisman finalist 20+ years ago. I’m saying he probably wouldn’t have been playing FCS 20+ years ago.

Ok, I agree. I do think there are those who think (wish) FCS football is at the same level as FBS. We also know that a FBS Colorado State player wouldn’t make the grade at Clemson, for example. In other words, there are levels even within conferences. I can say that the levels exist in sports like tennis between a Montana junior and a Florida junior.

 

[thirdandlong]

Not a chance. I’m suggesting that the level of athletes at the top of the FCS in 2023 would’ve likely played big time college football 20+ years ago. Like any sport, they are better on average, and there are more of them.

I’m almost afraid to post as we will quickly hear from Helena and his clone 1122. I disagree with you, however, as I don’t see the FCS talent today (with exceptions) coming close to the best players of college football twenty years ago.

And you are 100% correct. Instead of arguing opinions on this subject, take a look at the number of FCS players in that past era who played in the NFL, versus the number playing today. The 2023 draft had only 4-5 players even drafted, and in the past era there would be triple that number. I remember one Griz team who had 8 players either drafted, or signing free agent contracts.
There is no way that the current national line-up can replace the talent level recruited by JMU, Georgia Southern, Appy, Troy State, UMASS, Sam Houston, etc.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

I’m almost afraid to post as we will quickly hear from Helena and his clone 1122. I disagree with you, however, as I don’t see the FCS talent today (with exceptions) coming close to the best players of college football twenty years ago.

And you are 100% correct. Instead of arguing opinions on this subject, take a look at the number of FCS players in that past era who played in the NFL, versus the number playing today. The 2023 draft had only 4-5 players even drafted, and in the past era there would be triple that number. I remember one Griz team who had 8 players either drafted, or signing free agent contracts.
There is no way that the current national line-up can replace the talent level recruited by JMU, Georgia Southern, Appy, Troy State, UMASS, Sam Houston, etc.

Again, if you’re not being intentionally obtuse, you’d realize that the average FCS player today is better than the average FCS player of yesteryear.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

And you are 100% correct. Instead of arguing opinions on this subject, take a look at the number of FCS players in that past era who played in the NFL, versus the number playing today. The 2023 draft had only 4-5 players even drafted, and in the past era there would be triple that number. I remember one Griz team who had 8 players either drafted, or signing free agent contracts.
There is no way that the current national line-up can replace the talent level recruited by JMU, Georgia Southern, Appy, Troy State, UMASS, Sam Houston, etc.

Again, if you’re not being intentionally obtuse, you’d realize that the average FCS player today is better than the average FCS player of yesteryear.

What does his weight have to do with this?

 

[3-7-77]

I didn't see anything obtuse in his post. Just stating his opinion on a subject. If one LOOKS for obtuse, one can find it anywhere.

"Weight..." :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Spanky2]

And you are 100% correct. Instead of arguing opinions on this subject, take a look at the number of FCS players in that past era who played in the NFL, versus the number playing today. The 2023 draft had only 4-5 players even drafted, and in the past era there would be triple that number. I remember one Griz team who had 8 players either drafted, or signing free agent contracts.
There is no way that the current national line-up can replace the talent level recruited by JMU, Georgia Southern, Appy, Troy State, UMASS, Sam Houston, etc.

Again, if you’re not being intentionally obtuse, you’d realize that the average FCS player today is better than the average FCS player of yesteryear.

Take a look at the Griz which has been one of the best teams in FCS. I don’t think our average player today is better than our average player 20 years ago. Maybe I don’t understand your point?

 

[3-7-77]

Amazing. Posters with differing viewpoints, actually discussing the various arguments without taking personal shots at the other posters. What a concept. I didn't think it was possible on eGriz, but seeing is believing. Well done guys! :clap: :clap: :clap: :thumb: