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Football is destroying men’s brains according to Vice

Norsky19 said:
I would argue OL/DL have the fewest concussions. RB's, LB's and DB's and maybe Receivers would have more with running starts and high velocity impacts. LOS contact a lot less helmet to helmet and more hand to hand to body contact.
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Special teamers used to have the most concussions and the most violent concussions. Not sure if that's still the case.
 
Norsky19 said:
I would argue OL/DL have the fewest concussions. RB's, LB's and DB's and maybe Receivers would have more with running starts and high velocity impacts. LOS contact a lot less helmet to helmet and more hand to hand to body contact.
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ol and dl players might have fewer concussions, but at least historically, more of the kind of head to head collisions that result in cte. for them, it happens on nearly every play, unlike players at other positions. for what it's worth, i verified this with every lazy person's friend, ai, so... pretty sure it is accurate, though.
 
argh! said:
ol and dl players might have fewer concussions, but at least historically, more of the kind of head to head collisions that result in cte. for them, it happens on nearly every play, unlike players at other positions. for what it's worth, i verified this with every lazy person's friend, ai, so... pretty sure it is accurate, though.
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An important part of CTE is not just concussions, but what are called "sub-concussive impacts." Linemen take an awful lot of those with the constant head bashing that may not lead to a concussion.
 
argh! said:
ol and dl players might have fewer concussions, but at least historically, more of the kind of head to head collisions that result in cte. for them, it happens on nearly every play, unlike players at other positions. for what it's worth, i verified this with every lazy person's friend, ai, so... pretty sure it is accurate, though.
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How else besides good AI would you propose to research something like?
 
mthoopsfan said:
How else besides good AI would you propose to research something like?
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Frequency of Head-Impact–Related Outcomes by Position in NCAA Division I Collegiate Football Players - PMC

Concussions and subconcussive impacts sustained in American football have been associated with short- and long-term neurological impairment, but differences in head impact outcomes across playing positions are not well understood. The American ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

There have been many studies done on the subject.
 
5280Griz said:

Frequency of Head-Impact–Related Outcomes by Position in NCAA Division I Collegiate Football Players - PMC

Concussions and subconcussive impacts sustained in American football have been associated with short- and long-term neurological impairment, but differences in head impact outcomes across playing positions are not well understood. The American ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

There have been many studies done on the subject.
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So, argh should have found a study or two, read them, and then summarized them for us? Ya, right. Where do you think the information/data for good AI comes from? Just pulled out of thin air?

Let us know the highlights of that study. Thx.
 
"Each year, between 1.6 and 3.8 million concussions occur in the United States as a result of sports or recreational activities." [That's not very precise. As I have said, I don't know, or know of, a single person from my playing days, or thereafter, who has CTE or significant brain issues now from football. Not one.]

athletes in offensive and defensive skill positions, including running backs, linebackers, defensive backs, wide receivers, and quarterbacks, experience fewer, but often higher-magnitude, impacts resulting from activities such as full-speed open-field tackling.

Among American males, football has the highest participation rate of all sports, with 3 million youth, 1.1 million high school, and nearly 80,000 college football players participating in organized competitive leagues during the 2012 season.

The relative risk of concussion among the different levels of football is unclear; some studies report a greater rate of concussions in collegiate athletes, compared to high school athletes, whereas others report the opposite.
athletes in offensive and defensive skill positions, including running backs, linebackers, defensive backs, wide receivers, and quarterbacks, experience fewer, but often higher-magnitude, impacts resulting from activities such as full-speed open-field tackling.]

[This was mostly a self-report study from a dozen years ago.]

[I agree with comments that posting on the internet and egriz is more dangerous to brains of some of trolls.]
 
mthoopsfan said:
So, argh should have found a study or two, read them, and then summarized them for us? Ya, right. Where do you think the information/data for good AI comes from? Just pulled out of thin air?

Let us know the highlights of that study. Thx.
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It confirms what Elrod and argh already stated that Oline and Dline have the most CTE causing head impacts and that for them it happens almost every play and goes unreported more than other positions. Running back sees a lot of head trauma as well.
 
5280Griz said:
It confirms what Elrod and argh already stated that Oline and Dline have the most CTE causing head impacts and that for them it happens almost every play and goes unreported more than other positions. Running back sees a lot of head trauma as well.
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Got it. I have known about the OL and DL stuff for a long time. The study doesn't confirm what the IP said in this thread. The study agreed with my comments about tackling. AI almost completely agrees with what I said about tackling.

"Whether on the gridiron or the pitch, tackling technique is the primary line of defense against traumatic brain injuries. While no contact sport can entirely eliminate risk, evolving techniques in both football and rugby are designed to prioritize "head-out" contact to minimize the frequency and severity of concussions.

The Shift in Football: "Hawk" and "Heads Up" Tackling​

Historically, American football taught players to put their "face in the numbers." Modern coaching has moved away from this because it often leads to the crown of the helmet making first contact, which compresses the cervical spine and increases deceleration forces on the brain.

  • The Rugby-Style Tackle: Many NFL and collegiate programs now teach the "Hawk" tackle (popularized by the Seattle Seahawks). This method emphasizes led-by-the-shoulder contact and "wrapping" the thighs.
  • Decoupling the Head: By targeting the hip or thigh and keeping the head to the side of the ball carrier, the tackler avoids the "spearing" motion that is responsible for most catastrophic neck and head injuries.

Rugby: The "Lower is Safer" Philosophy​

Rugby has inherently different risks because players do not wear hard-shell helmets. This lack of protection actually incentivizes better technique, as hitting someone with your head hurts the tackler immediately.

  • Height Restrictions: Recent law changes in rugby have lowered the legal tackle height (often to the sternum or below). Forcing the tackler to go lower naturally moves the head away from the "red zone" where knees, elbows, and shoulders are most likely to collide with the skull.
  • The "Cheek-to-Cheek" Rule: Coaches emphasize placing the tackler's cheek against the ball carrier's hip (buttock). This ensures the head is positioned behind or to the side of the body, using the soft tissue of the opponent as a buffer rather than taking a direct hit.

The Verdict​

Yes, technique is the most effective tool for risk mitigation. However, it is not a cure-all. Research suggests that while "head-out" techniques reduce direct impact, the sheer cumulative force of repeated sub-concussive hits—even with "good" form—remains a concern for long-term neurological health."
 
mthoopsfan said:
How else besides good AI would you propose to research something like?
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i read a few scientific studies about it in the past and remembered the results, but i threw the question into the little search box just to see if it confirmed my memory. one of the 'sources' ai cited was a 'long reddit thread', so, yeah, take it for what it is worth.

as for how i would study it? good question, greenie! i suspect i could design a set of studies that would have a good chance at getting funding to actually perform, but it would take a long time from start to finish.

maybe you forgot my profession, greenie? regardless, if i was 'really' going to study the question, i'd be thorough. don't have the interest, though.
 
There’s zero chance of someone who actually played 3-plus decades of football and rugby regardless of how well they claim to have tackled has escaped the negative aspects of long term neurological damage. Zero.
 
AnotherGrizFan said:
There’s zero chance of someone who actually played 3-plus decades of football and rugby regardless of how well they claim to have tackled has escaped the negative aspects of long term neurological damage. Zero.
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I personally know someone who played almost 3 decades of football in the Big 10 and NFL who suffered no long term neurological damage. They were a kicker and punter. For football it is very position dependent. I don’t know enough about rugby to comment on that. Never followed or played it nor had much interest to.
 
I thought more about this thread and my brain doesnn't much to be desired, so it's really not that big a deal.
 
argh! said:
i read a few scientific studies about it in the past and remembered the results, but i threw the question into the little search box just to see if it confirmed my memory. one of the 'sources' ai cited was a 'long reddit thread', so, yeah, take it for what it is worth.

as for how i would study it? good question, greenie! i suspect i could design a set of studies that would have a good chance at getting funding to actually perform, but it would take a long time from start to finish.

maybe you forgot my profession, greenie? regardless, if i was 'really' going to study the question, i'd be thorough. don't have the interest, though.
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Thx but I meant how would you research the question just to make a post.
 
AnotherGrizFan said:
There’s zero chance of someone who actually played 3-plus decades of football and rugby regardless of how well they claim to have tackled has escaped the negative aspects of long term neurological damage. Zero.
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Not true. You are clueless on this subject and in general. And I played 4 plus decades of rugby.
 
5280Griz said:
He already researched the question by reading a few scientific studies on the subject.
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No, he said he had used AI. Please pay attention. "for what it's worth, i verified this with every lazy person's friend, ai, so... pretty sure it is accurate, though."
 
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mthoopsfan said:
Thx but I meant how would you research the question just to make a post.
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actually, thanks to you - i've been spending all morning thinking about how to design a study (i'm in asia right now), and what measurements to make, both behavior and neuroanatomical. a fun little mental exercise.
 
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