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Post fall-camp thoughts and 2014 outlook
- Thread starter BWahlberg
- Start date
A great summary and some interesting comments. I for one would not be at all happy with just making the playoffs every year. I live in the Atlanta area and you will recall that the Atlanta Braves won 14 division titles in a row with one World Series win to show for it. The average Atlanta fan is not at all happy with that record and particulalry now with several so-so seasons the fan base is not happy and attendance drops are occurring. A NC each year is not realistic but something better than last years playoff loss is something all of us should strive for. It sounds to me like the players are ready to go, very enthusiastic and really together as a team so lets hope for the best this year. The road schedule is brutal but not we might be surprised with the outcomes of games likke Wyoming which is winnable I think. In terms of MD, he has done some good things under very difficult circumstances but regardless of record is it not time for some new young blood? He is the same age as I am and I think if it were me I would figure my time was up although ego does get in the way often. GO GRIZ I am in Missoula now to ride my bike around the state, can someone get rid of the rain for me please?
Griz66 said:
It doesn't rain on the inside of a bar room.
DoubleNicks said:
This is EXACTLY how I feel and why my expectations are not unrealistic, IMO. This program is bigger and better than JUST making the playoffs. I don't expect to win the title every year. That is very unrealistic. But I don't think just making the playoffs should keep a coach and his staff around if they can't prove they can advance in those playoffs.
Ursa Major said:
Unless you pass out in the bathroom...
George Ferguson
Well-known member
Gotta go with PR. Unless Hookedongriz can provide a quote from a University of Montana coach or player where they said the goal is to "just make the playoffs" then the argument is moot. They are the ONLY ones who's goals actually matter in between the white lines, and I'm 100 hundred percent positive that their goals aren't to "just make the playoffs". Hookedon, you keep saying this, but where's the proof that that is what the University of Montana football team's top goal is? Is it on the wall in the lockerroom? Is it in etched somewhere in the tunnel? Is it buried in a time capsule under the bear logo in Wash-Griz? What interviews has Delaney or JJ, or Wags done where he said "as long as we make the playoffs, we'll be happy." Cause I read the Missoulian, Gazette and Great Falls Tribune, and Havre Daily News (shameless plug), every day, all year long, and I've never seen that goal stated by any member of the Griz football team or coaching staff.
Two more points:
1. You can't win a national championship if you don't make the playoffs. So yes, actually making the FCS playoffs SHOULD be a goal of ANY team who thinks they're good enough to go further.
2. Even if some fans are "just content to make the playoffs every year", so what? Those fans don't play the games, and they don't coach the team, so their goal or contentment has exactly NOTHING to do with the actual outcome of the 12 games the Grizzlies play this fall.
Two more points:
1. You can't win a national championship if you don't make the playoffs. So yes, actually making the FCS playoffs SHOULD be a goal of ANY team who thinks they're good enough to go further.
2. Even if some fans are "just content to make the playoffs every year", so what? Those fans don't play the games, and they don't coach the team, so their goal or contentment has exactly NOTHING to do with the actual outcome of the 12 games the Grizzlies play this fall.
havgrizfan said:
Are you replying to a different thread or did you read anything I said previously? I'm confused by the horrible spin you've put on what I said. Let me summarize for ya:
PR claimed if we made the playoffs we'd be idiots to get rid of Delaney. I said if I wanted to root for a team whose end goal was to JUST make the playoffs each year and then everything is ice cream and rainbows, then I'd root for the Bobcats (which come on, that's funny). My point being that with this team and this program, if we are content with JUST making the playoffs then our program and the fan base has taken a huge step backwards. No doubt 100% every single player has a goal of making it to and winning the national chipper. I as a fan share that goal 100%. I know we can't win the chipper every year. That's crazy talk. But this program is more than capable of consistent deep playoff runs and title game appearances. Bottom line is this......just making the playoffs is not a reason to keep a coaching staff around. The players and coaches expect a lot more than just making it in. So do I. If that's unrealistic , then I guess I'm a unrealistic die hard Griz fan who expects too much from arguably one of the best overall FCS programs in the nation.
George Ferguson
Well-known member
Hookedon, if the goal is to win the natty every season, unrealistic or not, then why do you consider Montana one of the best FCS programs around when the Griz have only won two national titles in 19 years and haven't won one since 2001? Could it be all those consecutive playoff appearances????
havgrizfan said:
Hmmmmm.....maybe it's what DoubleNicks pointed out earlier.....the fact that the Griz have been in the national chipper 35% of the time since 1995. Is there any program that can match that number? If so, I'd be very surprised. So yes, I believe the Griz are one of the best programs in FCS football. And how many times do I have to say I don't expect to win a title every year to get it through you ass-clown skull.....I'm simply saying that JUST making the playoffs shouldn't be the goal of anyone in this program. Didn't I say that like 10 times now. Quit putting your own spin on it.
George Ferguson
Well-known member
Not spinning, just waiting to hear who's goal that is.
havgrizfan said:
You're confusing the hell out of me bud. I THINK we are on the exact same page with the fact that every single player and coach expects and has a goal of winning the national title. I said that many times in this thread. So did you. So not sure what you're argument against me is if we are both agreeing on that fact.
Where I think we differ (not sure bc you're almost speaking in tongues here)'is that you and PR are simply happy with just making the playoffs and think that MD and company deserve a contract renewal if they make it. That's where I disagree.....just making the playoffs shouldn't warrant a renewal IMO. If he leads them to the promised land, he has my support 100 percent. Like I said earlier, I'm actually a fan of MD and hope nothing but good things for him and this program.
George Ferguson
Well-known member
No Hooked, I've never said "I'm simply happy with making the playoffs." However, I have said, many times, that is completely out of my control. I do live in the real world, I do understand, I'm not on the team, or the coaching staff, and I'm sure they are damn glad for that. I do understand that no matter how much money I spend on Griz clothing, season tickets, gas to and from Missoula at least six times per year, hotels, stadium pizzas, no matter how much my education cost at the University of Montana and no matter how much state income tax is taken out of my paycheck each month, I do NOT have control over what happens between the white lines when it comes to Griz football. I'm a fan, I'm not a player or coach, so no matter what my "expectations" are, or what my "goals" for Griz football are, they have NO OUTCOME on the actual games that are played on the field each Saturday...with the exception of how loud I am when I'm actually in the stands, and that will never change, no matter who the coach is or the win-loss record. I just happen to be able to see the line between being a fan and being on the team or believing I have some say in how the team is coached or how they played. I know that line is blurred for many Griz fans, and I truly believe it is why so many Griz fans seem to be so miserable (Steve Dill), and that misery goes wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy back to well before Mick Delaney was ever the coach of the Grizzlies.
IMO I think we are pretty well set with two exceptions - the kicking game and the offensive line. I am lacking confidence in both areas.
The car will not run without the offensive line being better than average no matter how talented the offensive skill positions are. We also have to be able to convert extra points and field goals. To me these are huge question marks. Any coach will say that we are improving and that the number of reps the line has had will be of great value. What else can he say? He has to build confidence in this group somehow. In practice the d-line seems to own them and while the d-line is good that is still not a great omen.
Overall, the depth of the o-line and experience are negatives which I think Wyoming will be the first to exploit. If we can perform well against them my enthusiasm for this team will grow quickly. In the meantime I am not betting the farm on it.
The car will not run without the offensive line being better than average no matter how talented the offensive skill positions are. We also have to be able to convert extra points and field goals. To me these are huge question marks. Any coach will say that we are improving and that the number of reps the line has had will be of great value. What else can he say? He has to build confidence in this group somehow. In practice the d-line seems to own them and while the d-line is good that is still not a great omen.
Overall, the depth of the o-line and experience are negatives which I think Wyoming will be the first to exploit. If we can perform well against them my enthusiasm for this team will grow quickly. In the meantime I am not betting the farm on it.
There's been alot of discussion, and misinformation, about the goals of the team and the fans. However, not much about what set off the discussion, which was this:
"If UM makes the playoffs, and Delaney wants to stay, what do you think UM should do? Fire a coach that gets into the playoffs 2 years in a row (and probably lose many of the assistants, unless one of them was the replacement)?"
Again, I say, why would UM fire Delaney (and the assistants) if the team is coming off 2 playoff seasons in a row, including at least one with a playoff seed? Seems crazy to me. Don't know how or why an AD would do that.
How did it work for Appalachian St to fire successful but aging coach Moore off of an 8-4 with a first round playoff loss? Weren't they 4-8 last year?
And I hope it's clear that asking why a program would fire a coach after getting into the playoffs two years in a row, doesn't mean that the goal of the program or the fans is only to get into the playoffs. Two completely different things. Please don't confuse or equate those two.
"If UM makes the playoffs, and Delaney wants to stay, what do you think UM should do? Fire a coach that gets into the playoffs 2 years in a row (and probably lose many of the assistants, unless one of them was the replacement)?"
Again, I say, why would UM fire Delaney (and the assistants) if the team is coming off 2 playoff seasons in a row, including at least one with a playoff seed? Seems crazy to me. Don't know how or why an AD would do that.
How did it work for Appalachian St to fire successful but aging coach Moore off of an 8-4 with a first round playoff loss? Weren't they 4-8 last year?
And I hope it's clear that asking why a program would fire a coach after getting into the playoffs two years in a row, doesn't mean that the goal of the program or the fans is only to get into the playoffs. Two completely different things. Please don't confuse or equate those two.
This head coach (Delaney) was retiring and was about the third or fourth ranked assistant coach in terms of importance on the team when he was selected by our esteemed Engstrom to take over the head coaching position. He was asked by Engstrom to take over during a very nasty Griz Football period and Delaney has done quite well.
From Delaney's standpoint he has improved his high three years for his retirement check. He has enjoyed his new found importance and I am happy for him persoanlly.
My guess is that he will visit with Haslam and make his announcement at the end of this season regarding his desire to stay one more year or quit and retire to Butte. Depending on the year the Griz football team has will play into the discussion. Now is not the time to talk about him being fired or promoted.
Like I mentioned earlier I hope he wins the whole thing! Head coaching jobs are man eaters and all coaches know this. It is a tough job and I'd guess many good guys are fired. The glory when you win is fantastic. The assistant position for another team usually becomes the job when you have been fired.
What I find interesting is how well our team does this year an how all of us are guessing at the final outcome. This is fan fun and is what most of us find invigorating, keeps our minds off business and work etc. Gives us all enjoyement. Bottom line.
I will continue to criticize Delaney when I think he has done a poor job. I will also give him credit during the periods he performs well. Part of the deal!
From Delaney's standpoint he has improved his high three years for his retirement check. He has enjoyed his new found importance and I am happy for him persoanlly.
My guess is that he will visit with Haslam and make his announcement at the end of this season regarding his desire to stay one more year or quit and retire to Butte. Depending on the year the Griz football team has will play into the discussion. Now is not the time to talk about him being fired or promoted.
Like I mentioned earlier I hope he wins the whole thing! Head coaching jobs are man eaters and all coaches know this. It is a tough job and I'd guess many good guys are fired. The glory when you win is fantastic. The assistant position for another team usually becomes the job when you have been fired.
What I find interesting is how well our team does this year an how all of us are guessing at the final outcome. This is fan fun and is what most of us find invigorating, keeps our minds off business and work etc. Gives us all enjoyement. Bottom line.
I will continue to criticize Delaney when I think he has done a poor job. I will also give him credit during the periods he performs well. Part of the deal!
This will be Micks last year and no he wont be fired. He has done exactly what he was hired to do, weather the storm and get the team through that rough stretch. The program is now back on the rise with fantastic recruits on the horizon. I think Mick deserves a big ovation and pat on the back for doing that. Remember, he didn't apply for the job, he was asked to do it. I think, under the circumstances, he has done a fantastic job.
CV Griz Fan
Well-known member
go96griz said:
At some point, the Griz will need to add beating EWU to the list. They won't accomplish
two of these goals without doing that first. Just sayin....
Hammer said:
I agree 100% with Hammer that under the circumstances Coach Delaney has done a fantastic job. The players respect him, like him and work hard for him. He puts some fun back into practices (which is important in these dog days of summer before game preparation) and yet maintains discipline. He has regained respect for the program in difficult times.
