Kroy's kids to have bulletproof backpacks

[Eastern Montana Griz]

Who would’a thought 10-20 years ago that our kids might need bulletproof backpacks to survive a day at school.

Columbine was 19 years ago. It wasn't the first, just the biggest at the time.

1986 in lewistown....
http://www.ktvq.com/story/37528594/montana-man-still-remembers-deadly-lewistown-school-shooting-30-years-later

 

[mcg]

The conversation usually starts with guns but I believe it goes deep into other issues at the core. Yup, just very sorry that first thought of school kids is, How to survive a day in school?

Definitely not a gun issue. Canada has per capita as many guns as we do but not nearly the gun violence. We could start with bullying in school. Definitely a bigger part of the issue. These aren’t cheerleaders and starting QB’s shooting up the schools. It’s kids that are considered outcasts.

I thought the Canada argument was pretty interesting, never heard that before. I listen to a lot to JRE and the fact the US has more guns than people is constantly brought up. Turns out that is not true, Canada isn't in the top 10 anymore https://www.cnn.com/2017/10/03/americas/us-gun-statistics/index.html

There is an article from 2014 comparing Micheal Moore comments about Canadian gun ownership versus US gun ownership. He made the same comment as above.

The answer is never one thing though its part mental health, part some humans are pure evil, part indoctrination (red pill, jihaad, white nationalism), and part getting gun is pretty f-ing easy. The reason why nothing will ever change is because neither party will admit their particular fault in what they defend and come up with a a solution that addresses all 4.

Definitely some eye opening numbers. In fact, Michael Moore’s Fahrenheit 911 is where I got that from. One interesting thing I noticed from the CNN article in its list of top 10 countries with gun availability, peace loving Switzerland was number 3. In fact besides the US and the Muslim countries on the list, Finland and Sweden were also up there. At first I thought, those are peaceful countries, but a quick google search proved me wrong. All three are beginning to be ranked higher and higher in gun related crime issues. Maybe gun accessibility is a bigger part of the problem then some want to admit.

Switzerland has a pretty strong gun culture. There is a tradition of universal military service where all the reserve soldiers keep their weapon at home. It's not at all unusual to see soldiers with their weapons on the trains. A few years ago (15?) there was a mass killing by one of the soldiers, using his infantry weapon, and they drastically reduced the amount of ammunition each solider kept at home. Tradition wouldn't allow them to return the weapons to the armory, so they took away the ammunition.

 

[mcg]

Not kissing off the problem or disagreeing with your entire message. What do we owe all of those people in downtown Salt Lake City or other big cities ? I think that there are some people that "expect" the government to take care of everything instead of taking personal responsibility.

I don't see why the Government is responsible for providing services to everyone for everything. Remember it is a democracy with life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

Well, then, if you want to see this country become like India, etc., where beggary is honored, so be it. It's already happening. Witness downtown Salt Lake City & other big city downtowns, not to mention Missoula's. You like stepping over sleeping/passed out drunks, etc., to get to a business? Not a pretty sight. Look, I agree w/ "life, liberty, & the pursuit of happiness," but to take this stance re: public social/mental health funding is kissing off the problem.

I have the distinct privilege of volunteering to help homeless is Portland. Every time I do I’m reminded that we are all a dumb decision away from being in those shoes (or sometimes lack there of). I know of a few with degrees and great backgrounds that had a really bad night, got drunk and tried a drug. Or they were prescribed opiates for an injury. Next thing they know they are in jail, fired from work, lost the house wife, and kids, then on the street. Granted it’s not a quick thing, but some people get horribly addicted with the first use. Then it’s over. I’ve worked with one guy who was a geotechnical engineer. Lost it all because the weed he smoked was laced with meth. Seriously, there, but for the grace of God, go I.

Mental health and drug addiction is the driving force behind homelessness. Countering it, is a limited and shrinking supply of volunteers, resources, and facilities. Addiction is not necessarily a moral failing. It, for a significant percentage of homeless and higher functioning addicts, is a disease. Neither is mental health. Often these two go hand in hand. As a result facilities won’t treat someone for schizophrenia because they are not clean, or another won’t treat ones drug addiction because they have schizophrenia.

The only way to really get ahead of this is to invest in treatment. Providing a home and treatment ends up costing the taxpayer far less than repeated trips to jail or the ER (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/mar/12/shaun-donovan/hud-secretary-says-homeless-person-costs-taxpayers/). Using the sentiment that they should take care of themselves and pull themselves up by their bootstraps is naive at best. Many simply CANT. The less we invest in homeless services, the more we end up paying. In the study referenced above, communities pay $40,000 per homeless person in jail, ER visits, and other indirect costs (like extra security). For $16,200 a year, that same person can be housed, taken care of, have treatment, and can start moving towards being a productive member of society. Before people ask where we will get the money, I would remind them that we are already paying it. The investment in housing and mental health/addiction services would cut taxpayer costs in half.

Sometimes people say that having a heart is expensive. In this case, I would argue that it is cheap.

perfectly said. I volunteer at a homeless shelter and couldn't agree more. I don't see anyone there is who is gaming the system because it's an easy way to get along. All of the residents have some sort of problem that often starts with mental illness or addiction.

 

[Eriul]

The conversation usually starts with guns but I believe it goes deep into other issues at the core. Yup, just very sorry that first thought of school kids is, How to survive a day in school?

Definitely not a gun issue. Canada has per capita as many guns as we do but not nearly the gun violence. We could start with bullying in school. Definitely a bigger part of the issue. These aren’t cheerleaders and starting QB’s shooting up the schools. It’s kids that are considered outcasts.

I am biased on the topic as I was actually present in a shooting at the airport in Ft. Lauderdale a little over a year a go. However, it's comments like this that make the conversation impossible to have. This is simply not true and you spouting it makes other people who want to believe it to be true.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

I found many other sources confirming around the same numbers.

If you want to have an intellectual conversation and try to say let's discuss the clear problem that is mass shootings then let's start by getting facts straight.

Already been corrected by someone with way more sense and tact then you and I quickly admitted my fault shortly after. Pay more attention to what’s going on around you Eriul and not just what’s in your head.

k asshole

 

[Proud Griz Man]

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly:

And, the moral cost of being infected by their depravity is far worse than the monetary cost.

 

[alabamagrizzly]

Definitely not a gun issue. Canada has per capita as many guns as we do but not nearly the gun violence. We could start with bullying in school. Definitely a bigger part of the issue. These aren’t cheerleaders and starting QB’s shooting up the schools. It’s kids that are considered outcasts.

I am biased on the topic as I was actually present in a shooting at the airport in Ft. Lauderdale a little over a year a go. However, it's comments like this that make the conversation impossible to have. This is simply not true and you spouting it makes other people who want to believe it to be true.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

I found many other sources confirming around the same numbers.

If you want to have an intellectual conversation and try to say let's discuss the clear problem that is mass shootings then let's start by getting facts straight.

Already been corrected by someone with way more sense and tact then you and I quickly admitted my fault shortly after. Pay more attention to what’s going on around you Eriul and not just what’s in your head.

k asshole

Typical response by the ignorant. You jump all over me very rudely for something I had already admitted I was wrong in WAY before you chimed in and I tell you how rude and arrogant you were and I’m the asshole. K, I guess that might make sense in your twisted head. Can’t just admit you might have been out of line in your original response, can you.