Interesting re: Warm Springs. I wouldn't have thought. Just shows the extent of mental problems, not only in MT, but elsewhere. I think our homeless problem is as much mental as anything, so WS should be expanded to get the homeless off our streets & into safe environments. But, nooooo, we're infringing on their "freedom." At the same time, our governments save money by not providing needed services to the homeless, only so that the rich can have their 2 or 3 vacation homes around the world, private jets, etc. Well, nothing new, here; it's been "the way of the world" since time immemorial.Harm said:
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Kroy's kids to have bulletproof backpacks
- Thread starter behappp
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I don't see why the Government is responsible for providing services to everyone for everything. Remember it is a democracy with life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.Grizzoola said:
Harm, I spent a WEEK there in training. The one place that made my skin crawl was the 'Deer Lodge East' (whatever it is called) where the truly totally f***ed up people reside. Surrounded by twelve foot chain link fence topped with razor wire.
The place really is fascinating, and historic. Substance abuse treatment, court mandated, is delivered there. Of course, what is just off the I 90 exit ramp? A bar. :roll:
The place really is fascinating, and historic. Substance abuse treatment, court mandated, is delivered there. Of course, what is just off the I 90 exit ramp? A bar. :roll:
Well, then, if you want to see this country become like India, etc., where beggary is honored, so be it. It's already happening. Witness downtown Salt Lake City & other big city downtowns, not to mention Missoula's. You like stepping over sleeping/passed out drunks, etc., to get to a business? Not a pretty sight. Look, I agree w/ "life, liberty, & the pursuit of happiness," but to take this stance re: public social/mental health funding is kissing off the problem.Proud Griz Man said:
Not kissing off the problem or disagreeing with your entire message. What do we owe all of those people in downtown Salt Lake City or other big cities ? I think that there are some people that "expect" the government to take care of everything instead of taking personal responsibility.
Grizzoola said:
Proud Griz Man said:
I have the distinct privilege of volunteering to help homeless is Portland. Every time I do I’m reminded that we are all a dumb decision away from being in those shoes (or sometimes lack there of). I know of a few with degrees and great backgrounds that had a really bad night, got drunk and tried a drug. Or they were prescribed opiates for an injury. Next thing they know they are in jail, fired from work, lost the house wife, and kids, then on the street. Granted it’s not a quick thing, but some people get horribly addicted with the first use. Then it’s over. I’ve worked with one guy who was a geotechnical engineer. Lost it all because the weed he smoked was laced with meth. Seriously, there, but for the grace of God, go I.
Mental health and drug addiction is the driving force behind homelessness. Countering it, is a limited and shrinking supply of volunteers, resources, and facilities. Addiction is not necessarily a moral failing. It, for a significant percentage of homeless and higher functioning addicts, is a disease. Neither is mental health. Often these two go hand in hand. As a result facilities won’t treat someone for schizophrenia because they are not clean, or another won’t treat ones drug addiction because they have schizophrenia.
The only way to really get ahead of this is to invest in treatment. Providing a home and treatment ends up costing the taxpayer far less than repeated trips to jail or the ER (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/mar/12/shaun-donovan/hud-secretary-says-homeless-person-costs-taxpayers/). Using the sentiment that they should take care of themselves and pull themselves up by their bootstraps is naive at best. Many simply CANT. The less we invest in homeless services, the more we end up paying. In the study referenced above, communities pay $40,000 per homeless person in jail, ER visits, and other indirect costs (like extra security). For $16,200 a year, that same person can be housed, taken care of, have treatment, and can start moving towards being a productive member of society. Before people ask where we will get the money, I would remind them that we are already paying it. The investment in housing and mental health/addiction services would cut taxpayer costs in half.
Sometimes people say that having a heart is expensive. In this case, I would argue that it is cheap.
alabamagrizzly
Well-known member
AZGrizFan said:
I doubt the meme was true and I remember it being an anti gun control add. According to an article by NPR after the Vegas shooting, the US was 31st per capita world wide at 3.85 violent gun deaths per 100,000 people. A lot of the central and south american countries are well ahead of us with El Salvador leading the way at 40+. As far as the more socio-economcly advanced countries, the US is 9th from the top, as in lower is better.
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/10/06/555861898/gun-violence-how-the-u-s-compares-to-other-countries
PDXGrizzly said:
Was buying an illegal street drug that was secretly laced with Meth a good decision by Mr. Engineer?
PDX, and others., if you don't put the bottle to your lips, don't smoke whatever, don't put the needle in the vein, problem solved. In short, individual responsibility. You may want to stop here, as I am going to unload on this 'cradle to grave government will take care of you' shit.
OK, now you're on your own.....
I have absolutely NO sympathy for this garbage. This 'opiod crisis' will cure itself, without picking my pocket with tax support for this shit. This "invest" cliche is just a waste of tax dollars on people who will NEVER amount to a hill of shit. I have seen YEARS of this revolving door crap and am totally fed up. I have seen them on the street today, make eye conact, and they cringe, knowing damn well if they dropped dead right in front of me, I'd step over them and spit on their corpse. I didn't cause their problem, THEY DID! End rant.
OK, now you're on your own.....
I have absolutely NO sympathy for this garbage. This 'opiod crisis' will cure itself, without picking my pocket with tax support for this shit. This "invest" cliche is just a waste of tax dollars on people who will NEVER amount to a hill of shit. I have seen YEARS of this revolving door crap and am totally fed up. I have seen them on the street today, make eye conact, and they cringe, knowing damn well if they dropped dead right in front of me, I'd step over them and spit on their corpse. I didn't cause their problem, THEY DID! End rant.
Top body count still goes to crazed jihadists using box cutters, and then domestic terrorists using fertilizer and diesel fuel. You can't use an Internet search engine without being bombarded with ads. If one political party in power can use the intelligence gathering infrastructure and investigative agencies of the U.S. government to know how many times the opponent uses his gold plated toilets, it sure as hell could be strengthened to know where the sickos are.
alabamagrizzly
Well-known member
tourist said:
Do you feel that towards homeless vets also or just drunks and junkies?
alabamagrizzly
Well-known member
tourist said:
Ok, just wondering what all your “cradle to grave government” was allowed to cover and not cover.
Proud Griz Man said:
It was a bad decision. That doesn’t make it any less tragic. Nor does it make him less of a person. People like you on your high horse are the problem. You think your moral superiority gives you the right to cast judgement on another just because they don’t conform to your perfect life. Seriously, judge not lest he be judged.
I agree about the tragedy. I am not on any high horse. Not on any horse.PDXGrizzly said:
tourist said:
Are you religious at all? Serious question. I am. That’s why I do what I do and shout it out for all to hear. I believe in the sentiment that “that what you did not do to my brothers and sisters you did not do to me.” Matthew 25:45.
I’m not going to preach gospel. I’m saying these are people. As much as I am blessed by what is in my life, they are cursed by what is in theirs. Also, I doubt depression, bipolar disorder, or schizophrenia are the fault of the person afflicted by them. These people need the help that we so glibly say “go to hell” to. What does that make us? What does that make you? I’m not going to change your mind, I don’t think. But if you for once surrender your moral high ground and actually spend some time in the homeless community, you might change your mind. Or it will confirm what you believe. The outcome is up to you.
Edit: also, it is more expensive to do nothing.
