Will the 2016 Defense be better than 2015 and 2014 Defenses?

[horribilisfan8184]

This thread asks a good question, but is far too premature to have any significance. We don't know who the new coaches will be, we don't know if the system will changed to a 3-4, we don't know who else will not be coming back, we don't know who all will be transferring in, we don't know who will sign a letter of intent out of this recruiting class, we don't have spring ball or fall camp to guide us, we haven't seen who will step up from the depth charts and play like all-conference. I'd like to see this thread bumped after last fall practice to see what people predict with knowledge of the facts about this year's defense. Then, once we do see how the defense performs, there can be a continuation of the thread with endless opinions on whether it did better or worse, comparing all stats, some stats, relevant stats, insignificant stats, arguments about who's stats are correct, etc. Quite frankly, based on our schedule, I'll be happy if we wins as many games as last year, regardless of how the defensive stats turn out.

 

[Gaeilge1]

I agree with every point you make Horribilis except for the comment regarding this question being premature and not significant. Let's face it, every post on egriz has no significance to anyone but the people who view and read this board. As for being premature, that is exactly the point. What we do know right now is that with the primary recruiting and transfer emphasis being on the offensive side, the odds are very low that the defense will be able to establish the depth that has helped to make them a force the past two years.
The fact that we have no answers to any of the variables you mention makes the question at this time that much more interesting.

 

[Gaeilge1]

I agree with every point you make Horribilis except for the comment regarding this question being premature and not significant. Let's face it, every post on egriz has no significance to anyone but the people who view and read this board. As for being premature, that is exactly the point. What we do know right now is that with the primary recruiting and transfer emphasis being on the offensive side, the odds are very low that the defense will be able to establish the depth that has helped to make them a force the past two years.
The fact that we have no answers to any of the variables you mention makes the question at this time that much more interesting.

 

[PlayerRep]

This thread asks a good question, but is far too premature to have any significance. We don't know who the new coaches will be, we don't know if the system will changed to a 3-4, we don't know who else will not be coming back, we don't know who all will be transferring in, we don't know who will sign a letter of intent out of this recruiting class, we don't have spring ball or fall camp to guide us, we haven't seen who will step up from the depth charts and play like all-conference. I'd like to see this thread bumped after last fall practice to see what people predict with knowledge of the facts about this year's defense. Then, once we do see how the defense performs, there can be a continuation of the thread with endless opinions on whether it did better or worse, comparing all stats, some stats, relevant stats, insignificant stats, arguments about who's stats are correct, etc. Quite frankly, based on our schedule, I'll be happy if we wins as many games as last year, regardless of how the defensive stats turn out.

One of the reason I started the thread is because I noticed one or more posters saying the defense would be better next year. Am hoping they will step up and explain their belief/prediction, other than the explanation they stated that the D would be better because TG was gone. Their posts seemed a bit agenda-driven to me. So far, dead silence from them.

 

[AZGrizFan]

What did the run at Mines under Semore as DC?

Going back and looking at CSM's 2014 stats their defensive starters listed showed 3 linemen and 4 LBs... Thus a 3-4.

No wonder the talk of 3-4. Could kidder add some more beef and be a NT?

I believe Peevy is closer to NT weight...but neither is ideal.

 

[tgreseth]

What did the run at Mines under Semore as DC?

Going back and looking at CSM's 2014 stats their defensive starters listed showed 3 linemen and 4 LBs... Thus a 3-4.

No wonder the talk of 3-4. Could kidder add some more beef and be a NT?

I believe Peevy is closer to NT weight...but neither is ideal.

According to '15 roster, Peevy is lighter than Kidder by 10 pounds...that new transfer DT is probably closest at this point.

 

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

I'd say no, based solely on personnel we are losing to graduating. What is it, 9 of 11 starters are graduating on the defensive side? Only starters back are JR Nelson and Yamen Sanders.

Then on top of that, we lose arguably one of the best, if not best, starting LB corps in all of FCS.

I know a lot of the younger guys played a ton and looked pretty good doing it (Buss, Strahm, M. Sanders, Kyle Davis, Rasmussen, etc) but it's tough to say how great they'll be or how easily they'll replace some of our losses.

I really miss a guy like Tonga. He was such a run stuffer.

I have yet to see anyone capable of replacing KVA; he was a unique talent and whenever he was out, weaknesses were exposed. Equaling the speed of Kose and Gamboa will be a challenge as well. No real Holmes replacement. The offense better be more consistent in 2016, because it is unlikely that the D will be.

Remember when we thought Tripp, Coyle and Kanongata'a were irreplaceable?

Nope

 

[AZGrizFan]

Going back and looking at CSM's 2014 stats their defensive starters listed showed 3 linemen and 4 LBs... Thus a 3-4.

No wonder the talk of 3-4. Could kidder add some more beef and be a NT?

I believe Peevy is closer to NT weight...but neither is ideal.

According to '15 roster, Peevy is lighter than Kidder by 10 pounds...that new transfer DT is probably closest at this point.

Huh. I could have sworn I saw a roster that showed him 10-15 heavier. Oh well. Neithe is ideal at NT.

 

[daGrizJ]

I agree with every point you make Horribilis except for the comment regarding this question being premature and not significant. Let's face it, every post on egriz has no significance to anyone but the people who view and read this board. As for being premature, that is exactly the point. What we do know right now is that with the primary recruiting and transfer emphasis being on the offensive side, the odds are very low that the defense will be able to establish the depth that has helped to make them a force the past two years.
The fact that we have no answers to any of the variables you mention makes the question at this time that much more interesting.

Not correct. If you were to look at the recruit thread you would see of all the current transfers, verbals, and offers the spread between O and D is almost equal 23-21 and 10 of the O are linemen, which, I think we can agree, is a good thing. Even if Phillips commits this week and makes it 24-21 there are still rumors of more D transfers.

 

[griz9501]

Will the UM 2016 defense be better than the 2015 and 2014 UM defenses? If so, why?

Let's hope we improve!

Because we need a solid defense to make a deep playoff run!

We have a lot of new LB freshman. I say Strahm and move a DE into LB position.

I'm glad we have Nelson and Sanders back in the secondary.

Focus now is building and strengthening our Front 7. Those fresh DEs need to add some muscle!

I could run the ball effectively against UM's front 7! :lol:

 

[Gaeilge1]

I did look at that thread daGriz, although admittedly did not review every one of the 800 odd posts. My comments were based not on the number of offers but rather on the verbals, transfers and walk ons that appear seriously committed to the Griz. In that respect the offensive recruits are running 2 to 1 over defensive recruits. Maybe I'm misreading things, but that sure seems like an emphasis on offensive players to me. I'm not suggesting that no attention is being paid to the defense, just not as much as in the past. Whether this is good or bad only time will tell.

 

[tgreseth]

I agree with every point you make Horribilis except for the comment regarding this question being premature and not significant. Let's face it, every post on egriz has no significance to anyone but the people who view and read this board. As for being premature, that is exactly the point. What we do know right now is that with the primary recruiting and transfer emphasis being on the offensive side, the odds are very low that the defense will be able to establish the depth that has helped to make them a force the past two years.
The fact that we have no answers to any of the variables you mention makes the question at this time that much more interesting.

Not correct. If you were to look at the recruit thread you would see of all the current transfers, verbals, and offers the spread between O and D is almost equal 23-21 and 10 of the O are linemen, which, I think we can agree, is a good thing. Even if Phillips commits this week and makes it 24-21 there are still rumors of more D transfers.

This. Should also look at 2014/2015 recruiting classes. http://www.egriz.com/grizboard/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=72895&hilit=2015+griz+football+recruiting Although a number of these players are no longer on the Griz roster, it shows reasonable parity in recruiting on both sides of the ball over the last couple of years. In addition, what we know from past recruiting classes, there are a fair number of offers out there that we don't know about.

 

[BWahlberg]

Since this is on page 3 it might not get read as much but I can see a few reasons why it might be better and a few reasons why it might not.

1. Why it might get better:

- JR Nelson could develop into one of the premier corners in the Big Sky, if not the FCS. If he can take his game to the next level the defense could benefit from a 2011-esque type of season where a portion of the field is considered off-limits in the passing game (for the most part). That's a lofty goal and maybe not realistic, but it's within realm of discussion.

- We'll have an experienced defensive secondary. Nelson, M. Sanders, and McKinley will be able to play base set and nickel very well. Yamen Sanders and Manu Rassumussen will be a hard-hitting and physical pair at safety. Depth is inexperienced no doubt, but the starters have all the tools and skill to be very good.

- I really like this younger LB corps. Strahm and Buss should be great. They'll have a learning curve for sure but I'm confident in these guys.

- Kidder and Ryan Johnson should shine in their senior years. 3-4 or 4-3 these guys are two great playmakers.

- If the rumor of Semore taking game-planning duties was true then the run the defense went on from EWU to the end of the season gives good hope of better prepared defenses.

2. Why it might not be better

- Sanders and Rassmussen were the two weaker links in pass coverage when it came to safeties. That's a concern now that they're presumably the heir-apparents to the job. They'll need to improve there or else we'll see more big plays beating the defense up.

- Youth and inexperience at LB and D-end. I'm always optimistic but it's hard to not recognize that we're going to be putting out a crap-ton of guys out there that have never started an FCS game this season. They'll ease into it a bit with 2 of the 3 OOC games probably being easier (I'm going to assume the 3rd game will be a D2 school). For the LB's alone we usually see the 1st year of transition has been a bumpy ride at times. 2012 for Tripp/Coyle/JP and then 2014 for KVA/Kose/Gamboa. They had good years, but showed their true talents in their following season.

- The lack of a Holmes or Wagenmann type of pass rusher. Ryan Johnson is very solid and was 2nd on the team in sacks while just handling sub-in duties, that's great. But is he that dominant speed rush type of guy that will get double digits like Wags and Holmes did? This D-line will need to pressure the QB. Will one of the younger guys step up and help? We're headed into a stretch on the D-line where it's a bit of an unknown if we have that one guy that shoulder the workload of some of our greats like Holmes, Wags, Bush, and Biermann.

- The loss of Legi and Ty. That's a lot of expertise, passion, and energy gone. Sure there'll be a new guy that hopefully can bring his own perspective - but at the moment it's hard to think that will happen. The loss of Legi on the D-line will presumably be felt immediately. And the mean/tough attitude of Ty's - where will that come from now? Is it needed?

 

[PlayerRep]

I agree with every point you make Horribilis except for the comment regarding this question being premature and not significant. Let's face it, every post on egriz has no significance to anyone but the people who view and read this board. As for being premature, that is exactly the point. What we do know right now is that with the primary recruiting and transfer emphasis being on the offensive side, the odds are very low that the defense will be able to establish the depth that has helped to make them a force the past two years.
The fact that we have no answers to any of the variables you mention makes the question at this time that much more interesting.

Not correct. If you were to look at the recruit thread you would see of all the current transfers, verbals, and offers the spread between O and D is almost equal 23-21 and 10 of the O are linemen, which, I think we can agree, is a good thing. Even if Phillips commits this week and makes it 24-21 there are still rumors of more D transfers.

Information in the recruit thread is usually quite inaccurate. It reflects what's on the internet and in certain sites, but it's based on what the players say and not information from the coaches. I've asked questions of people who would know on various occasions over the years, and sometimes they don't even know who the supposed offered kid is, or chuckle and say no. I think the most accurate information on this particular subject comes from verbals and from leakage sometimes seems to come from coaches.

 

[Ursus1]

I agree with every point you make Horribilis except for the comment regarding this question being premature and not significant. Let's face it, every post on egriz has no significance to anyone but the people who view and read this board. As for being premature, that is exactly the point. What we do know right now is that with the primary recruiting and transfer emphasis being on the offensive side, the odds are very low that the defense will be able to establish the depth that has helped to make them a force the past two years.
The fact that we have no answers to any of the variables you mention makes the question at this time that much more interesting.

Not correct. If you were to look at the recruit thread you would see of all the current transfers, verbals, and offers the spread between O and D is almost equal 23-21 and 10 of the O are linemen, which, I think we can agree, is a good thing. Even if Phillips commits this week and makes it 24-21 there are still rumors of more D transfers.

Information in the recruit thread is usually quite inaccurate. It reflects what's on the internet and in certain sites, but it's based on what the players say and not information from the coaches. I've asked questions of people who would know on various occasions over the years, and sometimes they don't even know who the supposed offered kid is, or chuckle and say no. I think the most accurate information on this particular subject comes from verbals and from leakage sometimes seems to come from coaches.

And recruits that are not on the list that will play defense have already verballed

 

[Umista]

Ty was a great motivator and LB coach. He did very well in those areas. That will be missed this coming season and few can argue about the points I just made. I like Ty and we will miss him. Having said that, he was a bit weak in the overall planning and scheming of his defense. I said a bit! For him to go on and become a great defensive coach he needs to learn more and perhaps he will as he continues his advancement. This leads me to our brand new defensive coach. Will he be smart as far as planning his attack on our oponents? Will he have the raw-raw fire brand that we just lost? Can he get assistants to coach his way? Will Stitt let him coach his way? Will he bring talent to the front and develop second and third players and give them time to learn?

In answer I have little to make a prediction on but my own raw-raw biased-basis-brain wants our defense to be great, tough and mean! Good enough to handle da Bizon. If we could just get two or three more big fast D line players we will be on our way.

 

[daGrizJ]

I agree with every point you make Horribilis except for the comment regarding this question being premature and not significant. Let's face it, every post on egriz has no significance to anyone but the people who view and read this board. As for being premature, that is exactly the point. What we do know right now is that with the primary recruiting and transfer emphasis being on the offensive side, the odds are very low that the defense will be able to establish the depth that has helped to make them a force the past two years.
The fact that we have no answers to any of the variables you mention makes the question at this time that much more interesting.

Not correct. If you were to look at the recruit thread you would see of all the current transfers, verbals, and offers the spread between O and D is almost equal 23-21 and 10 of the O are linemen, which, I think we can agree, is a good thing. Even if Phillips commits this week and makes it 24-21 there are still rumors of more D transfers.

Information in the recruit thread is usually quite inaccurate. It reflects what's on the internet and in certain sites, but it's based on what the players say and not information from the coaches. I've asked questions of people who would know on various occasions over the years, and sometimes they don't even know who the supposed offered kid is, or chuckle and say no. I think the most accurate information on this particular subject comes from verbals and from leakage sometimes seems to come from coaches.

And recruits that are not on the list that will play defense have already verballed

G1, again, if you count the players that have transfered or verbaled, there are 9 offensive and 7 defensive (counting Beaver as DE and Letexier the LB who just verbaled from Jefferson High). My only point is, it is more balanced than it looks at first glance. It is impossible to guess what will happen with any other offers, some of which we don't even know about. (Letexier is not on the list.) We won't really know until Feb but I feel comfortable the coachs are well aware of our defensive needs.

 

[Ursus1]

Not correct. If you were to look at the recruit thread you would see of all the current transfers, verbals, and offers the spread between O and D is almost equal 23-21 and 10 of the O are linemen, which, I think we can agree, is a good thing. Even if Phillips commits this week and makes it 24-21 there are still rumors of more D transfers.

Information in the recruit thread is usually quite inaccurate. It reflects what's on the internet and in certain sites, but it's based on what the players say and not information from the coaches. I've asked questions of people who would know on various occasions over the years, and sometimes they don't even know who the supposed offered kid is, or chuckle and say no. I think the most accurate information on this particular subject comes from verbals and from leakage sometimes seems to come from coaches.

And recruits that are not on the list that will play defense have already verballed

G1, again, if you count the players that have transfered or verbaled, there are 9 offensive and 7 defensive (counting Beaver as DE and Letexier the LB who just verbaled from Jefferson High). My only point is, it is more balanced than it looks at first glance. It is impossible to guess what will happen with any other offers, some of which we don't even know about. (Letexier is not on the list.) We won't really know until Feb but I feel comfortable the coachs are well aware of our defensive needs.

You are correct....another not on the list....also has verballed

 

[PlayerRep]

Ty was a great motivator and LB coach. He did very well in those areas. That will be missed this coming season and few can argue about the points I just made. I like Ty and we will miss him. Having said that, he was a bit weak in the overall planning and scheming of his defense. I said a bit! For him to go on and become a great defensive coach he needs to learn more and perhaps he will as he continues his advancement. This leads me to our brand new defensive coach. Will he be smart as far as planning his attack on our oponents? Will he have the raw-raw fire brand that we just lost? Can he get assistants to coach his way? Will Stitt let him coach his way? Will he bring talent to the front and develop second and third players and give them time to learn?

In answer I have little to make a prediction on but my own raw-raw biased-basis-brain wants our defense to be great, tough and mean! Good enough to handle da Bizon. If we could just get two or three more big fast D line players we will be on our way.

Yes, he was so weak at DC that, based on Cookus' and Legi's recommendations, Hawaii offered him the DC job. This came after he had accepted the Cat job, by the way. Jeez, where does some of this stuff come from?

 

[Umista]

Gregorak:
Blowing smoke? He was not weak (overall) in my opinion. I tried to say he was a very good LB coach and a very good motivator. And I must say he is a very nice guy and a friend of mine and has been in my house many times along with his wife. In my opinion he is not a great and brilliant defensive coach at this time in his career. Mick Delaney and Bobby Hauck both have mentioned simlar thoughts to me about Ty. They both think he is a good coach and a good guy with good future upside and I agree. This "stuff" is my just my opinion along with some others I do not care to mention.

It IS and WAS very obvious why Gregorak left the Griz. I have said my last on this topic.