Why I do not like the spread-option offense

[Chief]

I miss bobby ball. We used to utilize our strengths better running between the tackles playing smash mouth football which is what we are built for. Year in and year out offensive line is always our strength with those big boys up front. We out weigh every line we face outside of the occasional Tennessee and Iowas, we need to recruit backs like chase and lex and run between those tackles and set up the deep pass and quit with this gimmick spread crap that emphasizes pure speed which is not our identity,

 

[Growler1]

I miss bobby ball. We used to utilize our strengths better running between the tackles playing smash mouth football which is what we are built for. Year in and year out offensive line is always our strength with those big boys up front. We out weigh every line we face outside of the occasional Tennessee and Iowas, we need to recruit backs like chase and lex and run between those tackles and set up the deep pass and quit with this gimmick spread crap that emphasizes pure speed which is not our identity,

+1. The spread in just the latest "in vogue" offense, which everyone thinks they have to use now. These offenses always have a limited shelf-life, until defensive coordinators figure out a way to stop them, which they always do. In fact, they have already done that. Interesting that pro teams only use a few gimmicky plays out of the spread-option, when they have a guy like Michael Vick, etc. But, they stick to the tried-and-true offense most of the time.

McKinney is not a good enough passer to make the spread-option effective. It is much more than an "early season" thing. It is because he throws like Jason Washington and Gerald Kemp.

 

[tnt]

2004: PLAYOFF wins by 51, 30 and 21 (or are we not counting playoff teams as "good" teams now?) no actually, like i said, we're not counting 04 because it wasn't true bobby ball with ochs.
where are your 2005 figures? oh nm
2006: PLAYOFF wins by 25 and 17, beat 7-4 SDSU by 29 i will give you a couple here even tho i vividly remember the SDSU and SoIll games. SDSU sucked that game and the 20-3 win never felt in the bag
2007: Beat Montana State by 21 cats sucked balls that year. with superior bobby-ball, wofford "demoralized" us the next week
2008: Beat Montana State (7-5) by 32 cats really sucked balls that year, didn't that qb go to rocky?
2009: Beat Weber State (7-5) by 21 (theres #3), scored something like 96 unanswered points between the SDSU and SFA games) I also said you can't count SFA because the qb was hammered, and SDSU was a blowout? not how i remebered it

So basically, in 5 years there were 3 blowouts of good teams w/ bobby-ball; and last year with a S-O we had 2. Got it.
Would anyone in griz nation trade Rosey for phen-phen? **crickets** didn't think so.
look, i don't hate BH, nor do i want to needlessly needle you. if i have an "agenda" on this board, it is to ensure evolution. there's a reason most schools regardless of level run some form of the S-O and there's a million of these qbs out there; they aint that hard to find. when in the kittylitter last year, not long after halftime, i felt something i haven't felt since the 90s. the cats were indeed "demoralized" and the party was on! to scrap that b/c your qb is out is beyond stupid to me.

"there is a million of the QBs out there, they ain't hard to find"??? Oh really. Then why don't we have one at UM? I appoint you personally to go get us some. Let's try a half dozen of them first.

Not so sure we don't.... The point you are missing about a S-O is that it can adapt to your QB and specialists. The Missouri version uses multiple reads, the west coast version concentrates on one, you can use 1 RB or 2, you can move WR. Hell you can even drop into a veer wish bone and play Larry ball. Last night the Griz were using 3 TE's. Its not ALWAYS a pass based on a single read. With Bobby that little run up the middle was just that with an adaptive SO, it can be anything.

 

[Growler1]

2004: PLAYOFF wins by 51, 30 and 21 (or are we not counting playoff teams as "good" teams now?) no actually, like i said, we're not counting 04 because it wasn't true bobby ball with ochs.
where are your 2005 figures? oh nm
2006: PLAYOFF wins by 25 and 17, beat 7-4 SDSU by 29 i will give you a couple here even tho i vividly remember the SDSU and SoIll games. SDSU sucked that game and the 20-3 win never felt in the bag
2007: Beat Montana State by 21 cats sucked balls that year. with superior bobby-ball, wofford "demoralized" us the next week
2008: Beat Montana State (7-5) by 32 cats really sucked balls that year, didn't that qb go to rocky?
2009: Beat Weber State (7-5) by 21 (theres #3), scored something like 96 unanswered points between the SDSU and SFA games) I also said you can't count SFA because the qb was hammered, and SDSU was a blowout? not how i remebered it

So basically, in 5 years there were 3 blowouts of good teams w/ bobby-ball; and last year with a S-O we had 2. Got it.
Would anyone in griz nation trade Rosey for phen-phen? **crickets** didn't think so.
look, i don't hate BH, nor do i want to needlessly needle you. if i have an "agenda" on this board, it is to ensure evolution. there's a reason most schools regardless of level run some form of the S-O and there's a million of these qbs out there; they aint that hard to find. when in the kittylitter last year, not long after halftime, i felt something i haven't felt since the 90s. the cats were indeed "demoralized" and the party was on! to scrap that b/c your qb is out is beyond stupid to me.

"there is a million of the QBs out there, they ain't hard to find"??? Oh really. Then why don't we have one at UM? I appoint you personally to go get us some. Let's try a half dozen of them first.

Not so sure we don't.... The point you are missing about a S-O is that it can adapt to your QB and specialists. The Missouri version uses multiple reads, the west coast version concentrates on one, you can use 1 RB or 2, you can move WR. Hell you can even drop into a veer wish bone and play Larry ball. Last night the Griz were using 3 TE's. Its not ALWAYS a pass based on a single read. With Bobby that little run up the middle was just that with an adaptive SO, it can be anything.

I understand all of that. But, you can not decide to "pound the ball" from that offense like many posters are advocating we do. The backs start much too deep in the backfield if you are just gonna try and run the rock all of the time. The two-back set, or Bobby's offense, was a much better offense to run the ball. It is amazing how many people think the spread-option offense is the answer for everything. It is not, and is easy to defense if the QB is not an accurate passer, or has no treat to throw long. Do these traits sound familiar????

 

[JBS]

We did not hire Pflugrad because of high end boosters. He was hired because he was good. Turned out he was. He is gone.
Hauck was hired much the same way. He is gone.
Argue on but it is what it is. It ain't coming back.

New head coach. New offensive coach. New Defensive coach. New ST coach. Also new and changed are other Griz coaches for 2012.

All Growler stated is why he does not like the spread/option offense. He gave his reasons and I understand them. I am different. I am stating that I love it. A few of my simple minded reasons. It is great for the fans. Women and un professional fans love it as they see more action and they can always find the ball. We can come from behind and win. It is very hard to defend. On and on.

The Griz will become a decent team around game 3 or 4. I predict we will be very good after game 3. We have a ton of good players and they need to jell and in my opinion our coaching staff could be the best we have had in the last 20 years.

We should be down in the dumps at this point. Why? We got our butts handed to us by our president firing the head coach etc. Lost our damn good QB. Like I said we should be down but we are high on our team. Sure some of you are judging our QBs on what little you have watched them but I see a ton of good play coming from them. It is waaayyy to early to throw in the towel or even talk about the doom because we are down after two lousy scrimmages. More later I have to work. Damn work anyway!

What the hell is a professional fan? You mean I can actually get paid for this?

 

[JBS]

How many GOOD teams get blown out? EVER?

That's basically the point i'm trying to make. We used to blow GOOD teams out all the time in the 90s. With bobby-ball, it happened very rarely, if ever. I count at least 2, possibly 3, GOOD teams that we blew out just last year (MSU, UNI, and maybe Weber). Finally we're starting to get back to real "demoralizing" football and people want to regress. I don't get it.

Examples, please. And you can't count rivalry games or Weber last year--6 and 5 is hardly the high water mark of a "good" team.

I'm not arguing for the return of "Bobby Ball"...I'm just not a fan of revisionist history.

Boise, 1995. They were a good team and we demolished them.

 

[Chief]

I don't care if we win by 40 or 1 a win is win and bobby won in the regular season I understand he could never win the big one but still I'll take constant runs to the title over what pflugrad has given us the last few seasons. Not to mention the streak ended in pflu's first season and chase was incredibly under utilized when he was healthy.

 

[Grisly Fan]

...over what pflugrad has given us the last few seasons...

Last year the Griz were 4 points from appearing in the NC and Pflu had just been there long enough to get his people and system in place. It can't get a whole lot better than that. It would only have been better this year IMO.

 

[garizzalies]

chief, the main reason i hate bobby-ball is because although it was perfect for dominating the BSC, it was hardly a difficult offense for the CAA to prepare for. We could steamroll BSC teams with it but CAA teams saw it week in and week out. We never have and never will win a NC running the ball b/c the CAA has that market cornered. Our size wasn't good enuf. Don't believe me? Look at the results (and i'm not just talking about BH's 0-3 vs. CAA teams in the chipper). In the last 25 years, for a non-CAA/So team to win the NC (i.e., a western team), it was done on the arm of the qb or an incredible D. Examples: UM in 95, UM in 01, EWU in 10, NDSU in 11. Hell, look at the first half of the nova game. when we were throwing the ball it looked like we were going to walk all over them, but for some reason that i will never understand, BH regressed back to bobby ball for the second half and history repeated itself.
GSU is the team to beat this year IMO and nobody will beat them on the ground. They may get beat thru the air or they may beat themselves but nobody will out gain them on the ground, so why try?

 

[AZGrizFan]

2004: PLAYOFF wins by 51, 30 and 21 (or are we not counting playoff teams as "good" teams now?) no actually, like i said, we're not counting 04 because it wasn't true bobby ball with ochs.
where are your 2005 figures? oh nm
2006: PLAYOFF wins by 25 and 17, beat 7-4 SDSU by 29 i will give you a couple here even tho i vividly remember the SDSU and SoIll games. SDSU sucked that game and the 20-3 win never felt in the bag
2007: Beat Montana State by 21 cats sucked balls that year. with superior bobby-ball, wofford "demoralized" us the next week
2008: Beat Montana State (7-5) by 32 cats really sucked balls that year, didn't that qb go to rocky?
2009: Beat Weber State (7-5) by 21 (theres #3), scored something like 96 unanswered points between the SDSU and SFA games) I also said you can't count SFA because the qb was hammered, and SDSU was a blowout? not how i remebered it

So basically, in 5 years there were 3 blowouts of good teams w/ bobby-ball; and last year with a S-O we had 2. Got it.
Would anyone in griz nation trade Rosey for phen-phen? **crickets** didn't think so.
look, i don't hate BH, nor do i want to needlessly needle you. if i have an "agenda" on this board, it is to ensure evolution. there's a reason most schools regardless of level run some form of the S-O and there's a million of these qbs out there; they aint that hard to find. when in the kittylitter last year, not long after halftime, i felt something i haven't felt since the 90s. the cats were indeed "demoralized" and the party was on! to scrap that b/c your qb is out is beyond stupid to me.

Like I said: define "good". Hell, define "blowout". You keep changing the argument... And I don't believe I or anyone on here has said we'd trade Rosey for Phenice. You want to talk about the blowouts, but seem to want to gloss over the slow starts and required comebacks against mediocre and below average teams. The blessing of the S-O is also it's curse: either a quick-strike or 3-and-out. Either one requires a defense to spend an inordinate amount of time on the field. And if these QB's are so easy to find, why are we starting a RS Freshman who's never thrown a college pass? There should have been "millions" of these qb's out there at JC schools just chomping at the bit to come here and play, right?

Oh, and outside of '95, I'm still waiting for all those blowouts in the '90's under air-bear you keep talking about.

 

[AZGrizFan]

...over what pflugrad has given us the last few seasons...

Last year the Griz were 4 points from appearing in the NC and Pflu had just been there long enough to get his people and system in place. It can't get a whole lot better than that. It would only have been better this year IMO.

As long as we're counting moral victories, the Griz were also 14 points from not even being IN the playoffs (EWU/PSU/NAU). Let's not forget that....

 

[tnt]

I understand what you are saying G1, I despised Bobby ball. It was great if we were playing a weaker team, but we were lucky to not have our asses handed to us if not. We lost some we coulda won and NEVER had a chance in the play offs of finishing at the top.

 

[garizzalies]

Like I said: define "good". Hell, define "blowout". You keep changing the argument... And I don't believe I or anyone on here has said we'd trade Rosey for Phenice. You want to talk about the blowouts, but seem to want to gloss over the slow starts and required comebacks against mediocre and below average teams. The blessing of the S-O is also it's curse: either a quick-strike or 3-and-out. Either one requires a defense to spend an inordinate amount of time on the field. And if these QB's are so easy to find, why are we starting a RS Freshman who's never thrown a college pass? There should have been "millions" of these qb's out there at JC schools just chomping at the bit to come here and play, right?
Oh, and outside of '95, I'm still waiting for all those blowouts in the '90's under air-bear you keep talking about.

i disclosed my "agenda" and reasons for my theory why the S-O fits UM and you disclosed that you don't actually want bobby-ball to return. so what is your point? what are you trying to prove? seriously? are you just sticking up for BH? are you smarter than Mick-D? is it that you agree with G1 and think we should scrap the S-O simply because JJ is out? or are you one of those guys that must have the last word? if so, go for it. and while you're at it, maybe you can explain how the underlined phrase above does not apply to bobby-ball, b/c it sure didn't apply to UM in Nov last year.

I'm not going to waste my time digging up history. I remember the games in my head. That's the whole point i'm trying to make. Last Nov was the first time i felt like we "demoralized" teams in well over a decade.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Like I said: define "good". Hell, define "blowout". You keep changing the argument... And I don't believe I or anyone on here has said we'd trade Rosey for Phenice. You want to talk about the blowouts, but seem to want to gloss over the slow starts and required comebacks against mediocre and below average teams. The blessing of the S-O is also it's curse: either a quick-strike or 3-and-out. Either one requires a defense to spend an inordinate amount of time on the field. And if these QB's are so easy to find, why are we starting a RS Freshman who's never thrown a college pass? There should have been "millions" of these qb's out there at JC schools just chomping at the bit to come here and play, right?
Oh, and outside of '95, I'm still waiting for all those blowouts in the '90's under air-bear you keep talking about.

i disclosed my "agenda" and reasons for my theory why the S-O fits UM and you disclosed that you don't actually want bobby-ball to return. so what is your point? what are you trying to prove? seriously? are you just sticking up for BH? are you smarter than Mick-D? is it that you agree with G1 and think we should scrap the S-O simply because JJ is out? or are you one of those guys that must have the last word? if so, go for it. and while you're at it, maybe you can explain how the underlined phrase above does not apply to bobby-ball, b/c it sure didn't apply to UM in Nov last year.

I'm not going to waste my time digging up history. I remember the games in my head. That's the whole point i'm trying to make. Last Nov was the first time i felt like we "demoralized" teams in well over a decade.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Dude, I really could give a shit. Seriously. I'm just trying to talk FOOTBALL instead of RAPE. :thumb:

 

[Growler1]

Like I said: define "good". Hell, define "blowout". You keep changing the argument... And I don't believe I or anyone on here has said we'd trade Rosey for Phenice. You want to talk about the blowouts, but seem to want to gloss over the slow starts and required comebacks against mediocre and below average teams. The blessing of the S-O is also it's curse: either a quick-strike or 3-and-out. Either one requires a defense to spend an inordinate amount of time on the field. And if these QB's are so easy to find, why are we starting a RS Freshman who's never thrown a college pass? There should have been "millions" of these qb's out there at JC schools just chomping at the bit to come here and play, right?
Oh, and outside of '95, I'm still waiting for all those blowouts in the '90's under air-bear you keep talking about.

i disclosed my "agenda" and reasons for my theory why the S-O fits UM and you disclosed that you don't actually want bobby-ball to return. so what is your point? what are you trying to prove? seriously? are you just sticking up for BH? are you smarter than Mick-D? is it that you agree with G1 and think we should scrap the S-O simply because JJ is out? or are you one of those guys that must have the last word? if so, go for it. and while you're at it, maybe you can explain how the underlined phrase above does not apply to bobby-ball, b/c it sure didn't apply to UM in Nov last year.

I'm not going to waste my time digging up history. I remember the games in my head. That's the whole point i'm trying to make. Last Nov was the first time i felt like we "demoralized" teams in well over a decade.

Nobody hated Bobby-ball more than me, and I was a constant critic of Phen Phen's offense. But, if you don't have the QB to run the spread option, and you have a great stable of RBs, including a blocker like Dan Moore, then you will be better off using a more conventional two-back set, or even the I-formation, or even the pistol formation. In my opinion, McKinney is not a good enough passer to keep defenses from loading up to stop the run and short passing game. Thus, I believe this offense is not the best for our current personnel. Hell, if Rosey has to keep this offense, AT LEAST design some two-back plays to force defenses to defend another type of attack!

 

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

JJ was a master of the "spread option"...............and look at where it got him?

 

[reinell30]

JJ was a master of the "spread option"...............and look at where it got him?

Sounds as if maybe JJ didn't have the coaches permission for his type of spread option...

 

[garizzalies]

G1, this is why i am struggling with your logic. First of all, you are not concentrating on the "personnel" of the griz, just one qb and one rb. I would argue the vast majority of our personnel (OL, WRs, and the other RBs, practically everyone except for maybe S-H and Gus) are better equiped for the S-O than whatever O you suggest. And they were raised in it. We've already traded size for speed; you can't go back overnight. Second, your premise for the switch is that TM can't throw good enuf and the defenses will stack the box against the run; but your solution is an even more run-oriented approach. Wouldn't we see a stacked front even more? Isn't that the whole point of the S-O = spread em out to create lanes and mis-matches? You think TM would look better in an O other than the one he was raised with? Finally, let's pretend we could switch the O overnight with no growing pains (completely contrary to what we learned from 2010). You think I-formation would be better than bobby-ball? This goes back to my "evolution" comment. There is a reason nobody runs an "I" anymore. Its like suggesting neanderthals should have went back up into the trees.

 

[grizindabox]

JJ was a master of the "spread option"...............and look at where it got him?

poor game planning on his part

 

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

JJ was a master of the "spread option"...............and look at where it got him?

Sounds as if maybe JJ didn't have the coaches permission for his type of spread option...

So you are saying he was just taking what the defense would give him?