whoops

[PlayerRep]

She describes two separate instances of rape. The first is pretty clear-cut. "I didn’t have sex last night, right? I said no, right?" And then later: "I had said no. I remembered saying no."

The second is, too:

"I verbally said yes, and physically was still saying no. Sex wasn’t working for me and he didn’t seem to get that.......

I asked him to get off me. He said just a little bit more.

I asked to put my underwear back on. He kept going."

A woman can withdraw consent at any time, even mid thrust. Sorry, guys.

Do you actually believe that that is what occurred, as opposed to what some woman may have made up or decided later?

There's a 50/50 chance that happened (either it did or didn't). You weren't there. Quit condoning rape already. Hate to break it to you, but the world isn't one giant conspiracy theory. The vast, vast majority of people don't go around making up rape allegations.

How do you explain the studies that have shown over 50%, and others at 15 - 30%, of rape allegations are false?

 

[PlayerRep]

sorry PR, but just because there is something on the internet called j-ethics, it doesn't mean it's law. go to 100 j-schools and you'll get taught 100 different things. and the associated press isn't the final word either, that's why their handbook is call AP STYLE. it's a recommendation not a rule. i hate to inform many of you this but newspapers can publish to their choosing. PERIOD. that's it. done. no need to respond. i've read every word you have to say on the missoulian. agree to disagree. no need for a pissing contest. anyone who is worried about what the missoulian is doing is clouding the bigger issue. they did not cause grizzly football players to do the things they do that would make the missoulian WANT to publish stories about them. whether those stories are ethical or not.

I'm surprised that you apparently don't seem to believe in journalistic ethics. No one said ethics is the law. Ethics are ethics. Some media is ethical; some isn't. I can see that you want to run away from this debate. That's okay. I still think you're a good poster and presumably a good guy. When any football player is convicted or pleads to rape, then that will be meaningful (and unfortunate for all concerned).

 

[GrizMusician]

What exactly do they mean by "continued?" Extended? Moved?

Bump.

How many of you are losing sleep over this? :lol:

 

[reed rothchild]

How do you explain the studies that have shown over 50%, and others at 15 - 30%, of rape allegations are false?

I would say that it's a relief that one or two of the four recent football rape allegations might be false.

 

[WaGriz4life]

You can't truly consent when you're drunk. Clear cut rule/advice = don't sleep with drunk girls. Seems simple enough to me.

However, in this situation, it's stupid to speculate what may or may not have happened before knowing what the facts are. Give it a rest until the situation plays out. One would hope that this girl is not making a false, "vengence" allegation; and one would also hope that someone who is representing the state and a university would not rape a woman, but one of these has to give. Time will tell.

:lol: :lol: you can't be serious! Sex in college is almost ALWAYS between two people when they're drunk. :lol: some of you are so ignorant it's hilarious.

 

[PlayerRep]

How do you explain the studies that have shown over 50%, and others at 15 - 30%, of rape allegations are false?

I would say that it's a relief that one or two of the four recent football rape allegations might be false.

So are you admitting that this prior statement of yours was wrong?

"The vast, vast majority of people don't go around making up rape allegations."

 

[George Ferguson]

i didn't say i don't believe in ethics and i didn't say the missoulian is being ethical. i said they are doing their job. period. and i said freedom of the press trumps all. they have the right to print! that's really what it boils down to at the end of the day. you are an attorney. by all means, bring a lawsuit against gwen florio and lee newspapers on behalf of jordan johnson if you feel he's been slandered. i would have no problem with that whatsoever. in fact i'd probably follow the proceedings very closely.

 

[NorthwestFresh]

It is a huge bush league move on Northwest's part to post that Jordan Johnson was arrested. He and all the TAC fans know god damn good and well JJ has not been arrested for anything. NOT EVEN CLOSE!.

I have no problem with booting JJ from the team IF and when the time comes that is what needs to happen. I also have no problem betting any TAC fan that if nothing else this next season, the Griz beat the Cats without Jordan Johnson at quarterback.

I also don't agree with PR (and he's well aware of it) and many others that Missoulian has conspired against Montana football, and in no way have they caused Griz football players to do the things necessary to end up in the paper in the first place. The MINUTE the fact that a starting, all-conference quarterback for the Montana Grizzlies was involved in something illegal, it became front page news whether you or I or anybody else likes it or not, including a TRO. The Missoulian caused NONE OF THIS, and as a newspaper, they are NOT being unethical. They are doing their job.

However, the posting of blatant lies about Griz football and Griz football players is getting pretty tiresome, from Griz fans and Cat fans. You all post with the intent of taking the moral high ground by saying "I just want Montana to be accountable for it's problems with it football team." But it's pretty fricken immoral to lie isn't it? And by lying I mean, the stupid ass isht Growler posts, Northwest posting that JJ has been arrested, the five different threads on BN with people claiming they have knowledge that JJ raped a girl, Bigsky23 posting that he knows for a fact that the NCAA is investigating Montana or the 9,000 lies Cats2506 posts weekly on this board. Oh yah, I saw one somewhere that said sports illustrated is doing an article on the Griz. Everything I just listed is a blatant lie.

Christ, I'm starting to miss Alpha. He may be the biggest ahole on this board, but I've yet to see him post anything but the truth.

Excuse me, but I immediately corrected myself, and admitted I was wrong to type it. Plus, I never mentioned JJ by name.

 

[PlayerRep]

i didn't say i don't believe in ethics and i didn't say the missoulian is being ethical. i said they are doing their job. period. and i said freedom of the press trumps all. they have the right to print! that's really what it boils down to at the end of the day. you are an attorney. by all means, bring a lawsuit against gwen florio and lee newspapers on behalf of jordan johnson if you feel he's been slandered. i would have no problem with that whatsoever. in fact i'd probably follow the proceedings very closely.

Okay, I understand your position now, and feel better about your view. I guess we don't agree on what the Missoulian's job is or should be. My impression is that there are a number of attorneys waiting for the Missoulian to make a legal mistake. JJ's attorney is smart, savvy and tough. I'd enjoy seeing someone like him go after the Missoulian, if he got the opportunity or right client.

 

[reed rothchild]

So are you admitting that this prior statement of yours was wrong?

"The vast, vast majority of people don't go around making up rape allegations."

Sorry, that was msuhunter's quote, not mine. Nice try, though.

 

[PlayerRep]

It is a huge bush league move on Northwest's part to post that Jordan Johnson was arrested. He and all the TAC fans know god damn good and well JJ has not been arrested for anything. NOT EVEN CLOSE!.

I have no problem with booting JJ from the team IF and when the time comes that is what needs to happen. I also have no problem betting any TAC fan that if nothing else this next season, the Griz beat the Cats without Jordan Johnson at quarterback.

I also don't agree with PR (and he's well aware of it) and many others that Missoulian has conspired against Montana football, and in no way have they caused Griz football players to do the things necessary to end up in the paper in the first place. The MINUTE the fact that a starting, all-conference quarterback for the Montana Grizzlies was involved in something illegal, it became front page news whether you or I or anybody else likes it or not, including a TRO. The Missoulian caused NONE OF THIS, and as a newspaper, they are NOT being unethical. They are doing their job.

However, the posting of blatant lies about Griz football and Griz football players is getting pretty tiresome, from Griz fans and Cat fans. You all post with the intent of taking the moral high ground by saying "I just want Montana to be accountable for it's problems with it football team." But it's pretty fricken immoral to lie isn't it? And by lying I mean, the stupid ass isht Growler posts, Northwest posting that JJ has been arrested, the five different threads on BN with people claiming they have knowledge that JJ raped a girl, Bigsky23 posting that he knows for a fact that the NCAA is investigating Montana or the 9,000 lies Cats2506 posts weekly on this board. Oh yah, I saw one somewhere that said sports illustrated is doing an article on the Griz. Everything I just listed is a blatant lie.

Christ, I'm starting to miss Alpha. He may be the biggest ahole on this board, but I've yet to see him post anything but the truth.

Excuse me, but I immediately corrected myself, and admitted I was wrong to type it. Plus, I never mentioned JJ by name.

You didn't immediately correct yourself. Some posters pointed out your blatant and unnecessary mistake, and then you admitted you were wrong. It's not hard to admit, when it's absolutely clear you were wrong on such a key fact. You never said JJ's name? You're starting to sound like Bill Clinton.

 

[Umista]

This is all I can stand and more than I can bare.

I am guilty of rape. Not once but many times!

Have I ever been charged with rape? No.

Have I ever been accused of rape? No.

No and hell no to the rest of you innocent bastards. *........Signed------ Umista Guilt.

 

[Cats2506]

She describes two separate instances of rape. The first is pretty clear-cut. "I didn’t have sex last night, right? I said no, right?" And then later: "I had said no. I remembered saying no."

The second is, too:

"I verbally said yes, and physically was still saying no. Sex wasn’t working for me and he didn’t seem to get that.......

I asked him to get off me. He said just a little bit more.

I asked to put my underwear back on. He kept going."

A woman can withdraw consent at any time, even mid thrust. Sorry, guys.

Yeah, I read it the way you did, the first was pretty clear cut rape, she was taken advantage of.

the second she let it go farther than she wanted, I got the feeling that she felt guilty for not stopping it sooner but in the end the guy continued after she said stop.

Its actually a pretty sad story on the sexual activities of college kids these days.

 

[Cats2506]

It is a huge bush league move on Northwest's part to post that Jordan Johnson was arrested. He and all the TAC fans know god damn good and well JJ has not been arrested for anything. NOT EVEN CLOSE!.

I have no problem with booting JJ from the team IF and when the time comes that is what needs to happen. I also have no problem betting any TAC fan that if nothing else this next season, the Griz beat the Cats without Jordan Johnson at quarterback.

I also don't agree with PR (and he's well aware of it) and many others that Missoulian has conspired against Montana football, and in no way have they caused Griz football players to do the things necessary to end up in the paper in the first place. The MINUTE the fact that a starting, all-conference quarterback for the Montana Grizzlies was involved in something illegal, it became front page news whether you or I or anybody else likes it or not, including a TRO. The Missoulian caused NONE OF THIS, and as a newspaper, they are NOT being unethical. They are doing their job.

However, the posting of blatant lies about Griz football and Griz football players is getting pretty tiresome, from Griz fans and Cat fans. You all post with the intent of taking the moral high ground by saying "I just want Montana to be accountable for it's problems with it football team." But it's pretty fricken immoral to lie isn't it? And by lying I mean, the stupid ass isht Growler posts, Northwest posting that JJ has been arrested, the five different threads on BN with people claiming they have knowledge that JJ raped a girl, Bigsky23 posting that he knows for a fact that the NCAA is investigating Montana or the 9,000 lies Cats2506 posts weekly on this board. Oh yah, I saw one somewhere that said sports illustrated is doing an article on the Griz. Everything I just listed is a blatant lie.

Christ, I'm starting to miss Alpha. He may be the biggest ahole on this board, but I've yet to see him post anything but the truth.

Too bad you cant back up your bull shit with one example :lol: :lol:

 

[grizpsych]

With all these recent issues, whether they are true or not, I just don't understand one thing.

Why would a football player EVER need do anything remotely close to forcing themselves on a girl?

Back when I was in school, pretty much all the girls on campus threw themselves at the football team. Seems if one girl wasn't interested, they could easily find another one.

Thats the issue. They think every girl wants them so when one does say No they don't think she is serious. Especially once you get some alcohol in the system. The line between consensual intercourse and rape can be very blurry.

Not trying to be a personal attack, but this is one of the most ignorant statements I have ever read. The line between consensual sex and rape is very clear.

No, the line between consensual sex and rape is NOT very clear, especially when the facts aren't clear, alcohol and drugs are involved, and there is lack of memory.

Really? Given the scenario that you just laid out, it's very clear that a) I would walk away and b) rape would likely occur here because no party is "legally" able to give consent.

Also, pretty sure that if I were a coach and my players were in scenarios with alcohol and drugs a lot, I would have a problem with that too.

 

[reed rothchild]

No, the line between consensual sex and rape is NOT very clear, especially when the facts aren't clear, alcohol and drugs are involved, and there is lack of memory.

Really? Given the scenario that you just laid out, it's very clear that a) I would walk away and b) rape would likely occur here because no party is "legally" able to give consent.

Also, pretty sure that if I were a coach and my players were in scenarios with alcohol and drugs a lot, I would have a problem with that too.

The above scenario is a straw-man argument. Given that 5 of the 11 actual allegations in the Barz report involved roofies, I don't see any blurry line at all.

Does the line blur BEFORE the victim was drugged, or after?

Good thing the perps had the good sense to drug those girls, or we might have a real rape crisis on our hands! :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[msuhunter]

She describes two separate instances of rape. The first is pretty clear-cut. "I didn’t have sex last night, right? I said no, right?" And then later: "I had said no. I remembered saying no."

The second is, too:

"I verbally said yes, and physically was still saying no. Sex wasn’t working for me and he didn’t seem to get that.......

I asked him to get off me. He said just a little bit more.

I asked to put my underwear back on. He kept going."

A woman can withdraw consent at any time, even mid thrust. Sorry, guys.

Do you actually believe that that is what occurred, as opposed to what some woman may have made up or decided later?

There's a 50/50 chance that happened (either it did or didn't). You weren't there. Quit condoning rape already. Hate to break it to you, but the world isn't one giant conspiracy theory. The vast, vast majority of people don't go around making up rape allegations.

How do you explain the studies that have shown over 50%, and others at 15 - 30%, of rape allegations are false?

Lies, damn lies, and statistics ...

 

[msuhunter]

You can't truly consent when you're drunk. Clear cut rule/advice = don't sleep with drunk girls. Seems simple enough to me.

However, in this situation, it's stupid to speculate what may or may not have happened before knowing what the facts are. Give it a rest until the situation plays out. One would hope that this girl is not making a false, "vengence" allegation; and one would also hope that someone who is representing the state and a university would not rape a woman, but one of these has to give. Time will tell.

:lol: :lol: you can't be serious! Sex in college is almost ALWAYS between two people when they're drunk. :lol: some of you are so ignorant it's hilarious.

Maybe at frat houses where rape is commonplace, but not in the real world of college. :thumb:

 

[coyote]

No, the line between consensual sex and rape is NOT very clear, especially when the facts aren't clear, alcohol and drugs are involved, and there is lack of memory.

Really? Given the scenario that you just laid out, it's very clear that a) I would walk away and b) rape would likely occur here because no party is "legally" able to give consent.

Also, pretty sure that if I were a coach and my players were in scenarios with alcohol and drugs a lot, I would have a problem with that too.

The above scenario is a straw-man argument. Given that 5 of the 11 actual allegations in the Barz report involved roofies, I don't see any blurry line at all.

Does the line blur BEFORE the victim was drugged, or after?

Good thing the perps had the good sense to drug those girls, or we might have a real rape crisis on our hands! :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Did I miss something here? I thought the only mention of roofies was girls saying I must have been given drugs. Was this a certainty?

 

[Sportin' Life]

She describes two separate instances of rape. The first is pretty clear-cut. "I didn’t have sex last night, right? I said no, right?" And then later: "I had said no. I remembered saying no."

The second is, too:

"I verbally said yes, and physically was still saying no. Sex wasn’t working for me and he didn’t seem to get that.......

I asked him to get off me. He said just a little bit more.

I asked to put my underwear back on. He kept going."

A woman can withdraw consent at any time, even mid thrust. Sorry, guys.

Do you actually believe that that is what occurred, as opposed to what some woman may have made up or decided later?

There's a 50/50 chance that happened (either it did or didn't). You weren't there. Quit condoning rape already. Hate to break it to you, but the world isn't one giant conspiracy theory. The vast, vast majority of people don't go around making up rape allegations.

How do you explain the studies that have shown over 50%, and others at 15 - 30%, of rape allegations are false?

Given the law of large numbers, that stat means that there are way too many rapists on this team.