Who are UM's peers?

[Grizbeer]

Enrollment is another factor. Enrollment brings in money and adds to the fan base.
Hawaii 60,000
San Diego St. 35,000
San Jose St. 33,000
CSU 32,000
Unlv 30,000
Utah St. 28,000
Fresno St. 23,000
Boise St. 23,000
New Mexico 22,000
Nevada 20,000

We have 13,000, which is closer to New Mexico St. (Sun Belt) 18,000 and Wyoming 12,000. Air Force is really small, but I wouldn't call them a peer for obvious reasons.

In terms of football attendance we're right there, but if we were in the MWC we'd be a lot like Wyoming having .500 seasons and going to the Weed Eater Bowl at 7-5, we're probably gonna lose fans and turn into another Idaho. We also won't be winning recruiting battles as easily.

After the dust settles at Big 5 have sorted themselves out I can see us moving into a conference with Wyoming, NMSU, Idaho etc. type schools. No way do we fit in the MWC.

Enrollment doesn't automatically add money or fans. It might add the POTENTIAL for more $$ and more fans, but the conference attendance figures directly contradict your assertion.

Enrollment does add more $$ from student athletic fees. For example, Sac State, which getgrizzy has identified as UM's peer, has 29,000 students that pay $129 per semester in athletic fees. UM has 12,000 students that pay $71 per semester in athletic fees. Just by having more students Sac State gets more than $5 million a year more for athletics than UM does.

 

[grizindabox]

Found this article in the Spokesman today:

http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/bois...alified-students-state-colleges-universities/

Idaho pondering pre-admitting all its qualified students to state colleges, universities

Idaho education officials want to flip the traditional college admission process around in order to boost the state's dismal college attendance rates, the AP reports. The State Board of Education listened to a new proposal Thursday that recommended alerting qualified high school seniors that they have been accepted to all eight of Idaho's colleges and universities rather than wait for application results. Board spokesman Blake Youde says students would still need to fill out paperwork and a pay a fee to secure a spot at their school of choice, but the money would eventually be credited back on their tuition bill.

Pre-qualification for acceptance would be based on grade point average, total school credits and SAT scores, writes AP reporter Kimberlee Kruesi. Officials still are working with college provosts to determine the minimum standards as well as how to avoid capacity issues in the event too many students select primarily just one university.

Students who don't qualify would receive a different notification that would admit them into Idaho State University and Lewis-Clark State College as well Idaho's community colleges, said Carson Howell, an analyst with the board. "Now we're potentially looking at hitting all students," Howell said. "We know what the pool is."

The board will vote on adopting the proposal in August during its next meeting; students and parents could start getting the letter by fall.

Even the state of Idaho views ISU as a second rate institution.

 

[kemajic]

UM has 12,000 students that pay $71 per semester in athletic fees. Just by having more students Sac State gets more than $5 million a year more for athletics than UM does.

Last fall's enrollment at UM was 13,952; you don't need hyperbole to make your point.

 

[kemajic]

Big Sky peers for us are-
WEber, NAU, SSU, UND, ISU

EWU, PSU, S. Utah, UNCo are peers of each other.

Poly, MSU, Davis, are peers of each other.

"Last week, U.S. News & World Report ranked the University of Montana at 194 among the top 200 colleges and universities in the nation. It is the only Montana institution to rank in the top 200."
http://news.umt.edu/2014/09/092214enrl.php

 

[getgrizzy]

Enrollment is another factor. Enrollment brings in money and adds to the fan base.
Hawaii 60,000
San Diego St. 35,000
San Jose St. 33,000
CSU 32,000
Unlv 30,000
Utah St. 28,000
Fresno St. 23,000
Boise St. 23,000
New Mexico 22,000
Nevada 20,000

We have 13,000, which is closer to New Mexico St. (Sun Belt) 18,000 and Wyoming 12,000. Air Force is really small, but I wouldn't call them a peer for obvious reasons.

In terms of football attendance we're right there, but if we were in the MWC we'd be a lot like Wyoming having .500 seasons and going to the Weed Eater Bowl at 7-5, we're probably gonna lose fans and turn into another Idaho. We also won't be winning recruiting battles as easily.

After the dust settles at Big 5 have sorted themselves out I can see us moving into a conference with Wyoming, NMSU, Idaho etc. type schools. No way do we fit in the MWC.

Enrollment doesn't automatically add money or fans. It might add the POTENTIAL for more $$ and more fans, but the conference attendance figures directly contradict your assertion.

Enrollment does add more $$ from student athletic fees. For example, Sac State, which getgrizzy has identified as UM's peer, has 29,000 students that pay $129 per semester in athletic fees. UM has 12,000 students that pay $71 per semester in athletic fees. Just by having more students Sac State gets more than $5 million a year more for athletics than UM does.

I was saying Sac is a peer academically, but they may be closer aligned with MSU, Poly and Davis.

Academically no one in the BSC is close to Davis or Poly.

 

[Grizzoola]

Shouldn't UM have one or two more NCs under its belt, before thinking of moving up? NDSU has 4 in a row. Maybe this is irrelevant when talking about peer schools. I do think enrollment figures, too. Most of the MWC schools have double or more the enrollment of UM. It simply means there's more money in those constituencies than that of UM's. I'd like to see a move-up, but I think a lot more has to be in place so that UM has at least a fighting chance in the MWC, when football is the consideration.

 

[grizindabox]

Shouldn't UM have one or two more NCs under its belt, before thinking of moving up? NDSU has 4 in a row. Maybe this is irrelevant when talking about peer schools. I do think enrollment figures, too. Most of the MWC schools have double or more the enrollment of UM. It simply means there's more money in those constituencies than that of UM's. I'd like to see a move-up, but I think a lot more has to be in place so that UM has at least a fighting chance in the MWC, when football is the consideration.

Bottom line to the move up argument....Championships are irrelevant

 

[getgrizzy]

If they would've made UM and MSU one school we'd fit perfectly in the MWC.

 

[billings_poke]

After the dust settles at Big 5 have sorted themselves out I can see us moving into a conference with Wyoming, NMSU, Idaho etc. type schools. No way do we fit in the MWC.

You contradict yourself; Wyoming is in the MWC and is not leaving.

It is totally delusional thinking to think Montana will move into a conference with Wyoming, Nevada, Utah State, etc no matter what the p5 do. Wyoming will always have 85 full ride scholarships in football and the gov has said we will spend what we need to to remain FBS level. So no matter what Montana has to come up with significant $$ to do anything but remain in the Big Sky.

If you can't afford it now what makes you think you can afford it later no matter what the p5 does?

 

[WAaggieFan]

Enrollment is another factor. Enrollment brings in money and adds to the fan base.
Hawaii 60,000
San Diego St. 35,000
San Jose St. 33,000
CSU 32,000
Unlv 30,000
Utah St. 28,000
Fresno St. 23,000
Boise St. 23,000
New Mexico 22,000
Nevada 20,000

We have 13,000, which is closer to New Mexico St. (Sun Belt) 18,000 and Wyoming 12,000. Air Force is really small, but I wouldn't call them a peer for obvious reasons.

In terms of football attendance we're right there, but if we were in the MWC we'd be a lot like Wyoming having .500 seasons and going to the Weed Eater Bowl at 7-5, we're probably gonna lose fans and turn into another Idaho. We also won't be winning recruiting battles as easily.

After the dust settles at Big 5 have sorted themselves out I can see us moving into a conference with Wyoming, NMSU, Idaho etc. type schools. No way do we fit in the MWC.

I think UoI has some unique issues that made their jump (and subsequent predicament) a bit different from a potential UM jump.
1- A PAC12 student can literally urinate on Moscow from their dorm room.
2- closest ID population center is Coeur d'Alene which is virtually a bedroom community of Spokane.
3- Spokane and the inland northwest has WSU to compete with for FB (although Leach's air raid won't be the turnaround the crimson Cougs are looking for to get back to 90's glory. But I digress....) along with the double whammy of Zags BB. There is no room in the market for UoI to draw what's needed for success at FBS FB.
UM doesn't have those very unique problems to deal with. Oh, and this is also why eastern doesn't and never will draw the fans to ever receive an invitation to leave the BSC. Just my two bits

 

[getgrizzy]

After the dust settles at Big 5 have sorted themselves out I can see us moving into a conference with Wyoming, NMSU, Idaho etc. type schools. No way do we fit in the MWC.

You contradict yourself; Wyoming is in the MWC and is not leaving.

It is totally delusional thinking to think Montana will move into a conference with Wyoming, Nevada, Utah State, etc no matter what the p5 do. Wyoming will always have 85 full ride scholarships in football and the gov has said we will spend what we need to to remain FBS level. So no matter what Montana has to come up with significant $$ to do anything but remain in the Big Sky.

If you can't afford it now what makes you think you can afford it later no matter what the p5 does?

I think that the Little 5 will be re-structured in a way that makes it easier for schools like UM to fit in. I think they'll do away with FBS and FCS. Maybe the entire BSC (what's left of it will move into that division). A conference with Idaho, Wyoming, UM, NMSU, MSU, NDSU, UND, Poly, Davis, ISU, etc is quite logical then.

 

[Grizzoola]

If they would've made UM and MSU one school we'd fit perfectly in the MWC.

Indeed, and this is what Paris Gibson, one of the founders of Great Falls, proposed to the MT legislature at the time: one school, located in Great Falls, of course. Yes, MT would have been a powerhouse in MWC football. WY was smart when it set up its higher ed. system.

 

[angryelfbison]

I think that it makes perfect sense to judge on a school based on how many students they refuse to educate.

 

[Grizbeer]

UM has 12,000 students that pay $71 per semester in athletic fees. Just by having more students Sac State gets more than $5 million a year more for athletics than UM does.

Last fall's enrollment at UM was 13,952; you don't need hyperbole to make your point.

I was just throwing out a guess of how many students are full time on the mountain campus and pay the athletic fee. Turns out I way overestimated it. UM Student athletic fees in FY2014 totaled $1,403,296, and at $142 per year is just over 10,500 students paying fees.

 

[billings_poke]

After the dust settles at Big 5 have sorted themselves out I can see us moving into a conference with Wyoming, NMSU, Idaho etc. type schools. No way do we fit in the MWC.

You contradict yourself; Wyoming is in the MWC and is not leaving.

It is totally delusional thinking to think Montana will move into a conference with Wyoming, Nevada, Utah State, etc no matter what the p5 do. Wyoming will always have 85 full ride scholarships in football and the gov has said we will spend what we need to to remain FBS level. So no matter what Montana has to come up with significant $$ to do anything but remain in the Big Sky.

If you can't afford it now what makes you think you can afford it later no matter what the p5 does?

I think that the Little 5 will be re-structured in a way that makes it easier for schools like UM to fit in. I think they'll do away with FBS and FCS. Maybe the entire BSC (what's left of it will move into that division). A conference with Idaho, Wyoming, UM, NMSU, MSU, NDSU, UND, Poly, Davis, ISU, etc is quite logical then.

Only logical from your point of view. I find no logic at all in it. Wyo sticks with Utah State, UNLV, Nevada, Air Force, CSU, New Mexico, ect no matter what the p5 do and the p5 won't take them all ever. Your conference is totally illogical to ever happen from a Wyo point of view.

I suspect Wyoming would not join that conference and would drop football first due to lack of fan interest in the games if it gets that bad.

 

[poiuyter]

Hawaii is more like 20,000 not 60,000. New Mexico is around 30,000.

 

[PlayerRep]

Hawaii is more like 20,000 not 60,000. New Mexico is around 30,000.

From U Hawaii-Manoa campus website:

Enrollment
Total Enrollment 20,006
Undergraduate 14,500
Graduate 5,506
Mean Age in Years 24.9
Gender (full-time students)
Men 44.2%
Women 55.8%

Below is from a UM press release in fall 2014--so, 13,952 including 2260 grad students and 2245 at Missoula College--totally 1161 FTE's--so about 9450 undergrads:

Overall, the fall 2014 headcount enrollment is 13,952... New freshman students totaled 1,597 on the Mountain Campus for fall 2014.... The total headcount for freshmen on the Mountain Campus and Missoula College campuses is 2,002....

Missoula College enrollment 2,245 students.

For graduate students, the fall 2014 enrollment is 2,260...

The total UM enrollment of 13,952 translates into an unofficial overall student full-time equivalent (FTE) of 11,651. An FTE represents 15 undergraduate or 12 graduate credits.

 

[kemajic]

I think that the Little 5 will be re-structured in a way that makes it easier for schools like UM to fit in. I think they'll do away with FBS and FCS. Maybe the entire BSC (what's left of it will move into that division). A conference with Idaho, Wyoming, UM, NMSU, MSU, NDSU, UND, Poly, Davis, ISU, etc is quite logical then.

So who will do this restructuring that you are talking about? Certainly not the NCAA; they have no clout in structuring conferences and no authority. It has to be the want of the University presidents. Why you think Wyoming has any desire to associate with a bunch of BSC members is not "quite logical." Idaho and NMSU only if they cannot develop better options.

 

[UNDfan]

I think that the Little 5 will be re-structured in a way that makes it easier for schools like UM to fit in. I think they'll do away with FBS and FCS. Maybe the entire BSC (what's left of it will move into that division). A conference with Idaho, Wyoming, UM, NMSU, MSU, NDSU, UND, Poly, Davis, ISU, etc is quite logical then.

So who will do this restructuring that you are talking about? Certainly not the NCAA; they have no clout in structuring conferences and no authority. It has to be the want of the University presidents. Why you think Wyoming has any desire to associate with a bunch of BSC members is not "quite logical." Idaho and NMSU only if they cannot develop better options.

There is a rumor floating around that the NCAA will change the criteria for an FBS moveup from an FBS conference invite to paying a fee for the right to move up. Supposedly Jim Tressel wants Youngstown ST to move up now that he has Pelini, Fullerton wants options now that Idaho is in the BSC, and other schools like Liberty and Jacksonville St might sue for the right to move up. Idaho moved to the BSC with an assurance that
part of the BSC would become FBS. The P5 will favor such a move as it would lower guarantees for them and dilute the G5 more. The NCAA knows it would lose a lawsuit, and Liberty has money to sue.

No way would Wyoming downgrade from the MWC. EWU and Portland St will attempt an FBS transition, as EWU will annouce their Gateway stadium expansiin and Portland St will either go FBS or drop football. FCS doesnt work well in big cities. The FCS will lose its upper third of teams. Idaho St, SUU, NC, Weber, and NAU will probably go to the WAC and the WAC will offer FCS. NDSU, SDSU, and USD will likely be forced to the Big Sky, as the MVC would have better options further south for TV.

 

[AZGrizFan]

There is a rumor floating around that the NCAA will change the criteria for an FBS moveup from an FBS conference invite to paying a fee for the right to move up. Supposedly Jim Tressel wants Youngstown ST to move up now that he has Pelini, Fullerton wants options now that Idaho is in the BSC, and other schools like Liberty and Jacksonville St might sue for the right to move up. Idaho moved to the BSC with an assurance that
part of the BSC would become FBS. The P5 will favor such a move as it would lower guarantees for them and dilute the G5 more. The NCAA knows it would lose a lawsuit, and Liberty has money to sue.

No way would Wyoming downgrade from the MWC. EWU and Portland St will attempt an FBS transition, as EWU will annouce their Gateway stadium expansiin and Portland St will either go FBS or drop football. FCS doesnt work well in big cities. The FCS will lose its upper third of teams. Idaho St, SUU, NC, Weber, and NAU will probably go to the WAC and the WAC will offer FCS. NDSU, SDSU, and USD will likely be forced to the Big Sky, as the MVC would have better options further south for TV.

"There is a rumor..."
"Supposedly..."
"...might sue for the right..."
"...with an assurance..."
"...NCAA knows it would lose..."
"...will probably go...
"...will likely be forced to..."

God GOD man, you come across as delusional with posts like this. There isn't a SINGLE fact in that entire post.