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What Montana Can Learn from Villanova

citygriz

Well-known member
1. You don't have to recruit the McDonald's All-Americans to make the Final Four; there is not one Top 100 high school player on that Villanova team. You do have to recruit good under-the-radar kids who are willing to work to get better and to stay in the program three-four-five years, and you have to coach 'em up to the highest levels. What Lon Kruger did not say in his final press conference is that two coaches took Finals exams, and Jay Wright got a 91, and he got a 52. Sure, Oklahoma missed shots, but it was clear to anyone, Jay Wright out-coached Lon Kruger.

2. You need to play tough. Jay Williams, a former player and now an analyst, was saying that when he played pick-up games in Philadelphia, he always came away bruised and scratched and bloody, because that's the way they play basketball in Philadelphia. I recall talking to the parents of an Idaho player who had to go up against Larry Kystkowiak, and their telling me how their son hated to play again him, not because he was the most talented guy he played against, but because he banged and elbowed and scratched and clawed, and was a nightmare to play against. I hope the Tacoma kids bring that toughness to our program, because it has long been my contention that Montana kids--Montana people, period--are just too nice to understand the insane ego-driven competitiveness of big-city basketball.

3. You must play defense! Sure, it's a cliché, but like stereotypes, clichés are usually earned: Defense wins basketball games. Without those big McDonald's All-Americans on their interior, Villanova compensates by tough, laterally-quick defense on the perimeter, always staying in front of their man, contesting shots and denying easy entry passes. I don't know if they can be successful against a team as big and as athletic as North Carolina, but their defense will give them a chance.

4. You have to be family. On the pro level right now, the Warriors are family, while an athletically superior team, the Cleveland Cavaliers, are not. Villanova is family too, easy to see. Like all families, they honor their tradition and their forebears, like Rollie Massimino, who coached Villanova to that incredible upset of Georgetown, while Jay Wright makes sure the current kids know that tradition, and live up to it. They seem like a tight-knit group anyway. When the current ownership group took over the San Francisco Giants baseball team back in the early 90's, it was a struggling money-losing franchise. But their first of several good moves was to bring all the old greats--especially Willie Mays and Willie McCovery--back into franchise as advisors and community spokesmen, and to honor them at any opportunity. It was the beginning of the revival of a storied baseball franchise.

So how do we stack up? I think this Montana program under DeCuire has a lot of the qualities of the Villanova program. The first thing DeCuire did was to pay respect to the great Montana basketball tradition, by bringing back all the coaches--okay, a fund-raiser too--even I gave!--but a reminder to all us fans and to all the current players about the great tradition that is Montana basketball.Then he's brought in exceptional players for a program at Montana's level, and he's demonstrated that he can coach them up. That defense against Weber was exceptional, they totally took Bolomboy out of the game, and forced Weber to beat us by making some insane long-range shots which unfortunately they did. But I could not have been more proud of the Montana coaching during that game.

All in all, as I watch this tournament come to an end, I'm reminded that we need one or two exceptional interior players, because all successful teams in this tournament have one or two or, in Carolina's case, a whole bench full. Whether we have them in the program, or can sign more, or Alphonso Anderson fills one of those slots, remains to be seen. But lacking only that, I think Montana's program is still on its climb-out to lofty heights.
 
Great read, citay! Awesome basketball column. This should be a featured insider column at ESPN, or a commentary at Mid-Major Madness.com. Better than any other sports-related article I've read over the weekend. :thumb: :clap: :clap:
 
Great read citay, only thing ill say is there are 7 top 100 recruits on the Villanova roster if you go by ESPN. Don't sell their talent short.
 
Journal: Thanks!
Tarheel: Anything on your agenda tonight?
As with the "eighth-grader" for Chino, I was relying on what an announcer said. When I looked at the bio's of the Villanova players, I could see immediately you were right. I should have known better. So now it's up to Montana to be the first Final Four team with no Top 100 players.
 
They can also pay coaches. Montana will never be a Villanova unless they understand that they have to invest in their programs. Montana needs to keep a TD for 7 or 8 years to develop the pipeline and have the success that Gonzaga has. The school can't keep a coach for 3 or 4 years and then have them move on to a bigger school because then you start over. Takes money to make money
 
really....do people think that Villanova and Montana are anywhere close to being the same in the world of college basketball....... :roll:
 
citay said:
2. You need to play tough. Jay Williams, a former player and now an analyst, was saying that when he played pick-up games in Philadelphia, he always came away bruised and scratched and bloody, because that's the way they play basketball in Philadelphia. I recall talking to the parents of an Idaho player who had to go up against Larry Kystkowiak, and their telling me how their son hated to play again him, not because he was the most talented guy he played against, but because he banged and elbowed and scratched and clawed, and was a nightmare to play against. I hope the Tacoma kids bring that toughness to our program, because it has long been my contention that Montana kids--Montana people, period--are just too nice to understand the insane ego-driven competitiveness of big-city basketball.

Huh?

You cite Krysko as an example of a tough player, then you opine that Montana kids are too nice?
 
AllWeatherFan said:
citay said:
2. You need to play tough. Jay Williams, a former player and now an analyst, was saying that when he played pick-up games in Philadelphia, he always came away bruised and scratched and bloody, because that's the way they play basketball in Philadelphia. I recall talking to the parents of an Idaho player who had to go up against Larry Kystkowiak, and their telling me how their son hated to play again him, not because he was the most talented guy he played against, but because he banged and elbowed and scratched and clawed, and was a nightmare to play against. I hope the Tacoma kids bring that toughness to our program, because it has long been my contention that Montana kids--Montana people, period--are just too nice to understand the insane ego-driven competitiveness of big-city basketball.

Huh?

You cite Krysko as an example of a tough player, then you opine that Montana kids are too nice?

Exception to the rule. You may be one too.
 
grizindabox said:
really....do people think that Villanova and Montana are anywhere close to being the same in the world of college basketball....... :roll:

Never said they were close. Only that we could learn from them.
 
...citay the guru of basketball...
...the only problem with it...
...the isolation of montana...

... 8-)...
 
citay said:
grizindabox said:
really....do people think that Villanova and Montana are anywhere close to being the same in the world of college basketball....... :roll:

Never said they were close. Only that we could learn from them.

point was....I don't think UM can learn much at all from Villanova.....2 entirely different animals...comparing apples to oranges.....
 
I learned real quick. If we had Villanova players as our Griz team, we the Griz would be playing for A championship tonight by god, that's what I learned.
 
citay said:
AllWeatherFan said:
citay said:
2. You need to play tough. Jay Williams, a former player and now an analyst, was saying that when he played pick-up games in Philadelphia, he always came away bruised and scratched and bloody, because that's the way they play basketball in Philadelphia. I recall talking to the parents of an Idaho player who had to go up against Larry Kystkowiak, and their telling me how their son hated to play again him, not because he was the most talented guy he played against, but because he banged and elbowed and scratched and clawed, and was a nightmare to play against. I hope the Tacoma kids bring that toughness to our program, because it has long been my contention that Montana kids--Montana people, period--are just too nice to understand the insane ego-driven competitiveness of big-city basketball.

Huh?

You cite Krysko as an example of a tough player, then you opine that Montana kids are too nice?

Exception to the rule. You may be one too.

No, I'm nice.
 
While I agree on some of your points I'm not sure that you are right on your example of toughness and it relates to Montana players. Just because a kid is "nice" off the court doesn't mean he isn't tough or doesn't play with an ornery streak.

There are plenty of examples of tough Montana kids besides Larry Kystkowiak. Rob Hurley, Doug Selvig, KC McGown, Blaine Taylor, JR Camel, Shawn Samuelson, and Ryan Dick are just a few that come to mind. These kids were tough and never backed down from anyone and were enforcers on the floor.

Watching opening tip offs and seeing opponents backing away from some of these guys speaks volumes. I remember many times seeing Rob Hurley throw an elbow into an opponent just to start the game and getting their attention and into their heads. After a couple of trips down the floor that player would not want to be near him and that made him even a better defensive player and rebounder.

It is true that we have had players like Eric Hays, Rodney Brandon, Kevin Kearney, Delvon Anderson and a lot of others who were just as tough and played with the same intensity as the above Montana players.

IMO we have had more of what I would consider "soft" players from out of state than in-state. I admit that number would be swayed by having more out of state players than in state players on the roster. The fact is, although I can name a few of them, I really don't remember too many "soft" Montana kids and I can name a lot of out of state kids that were "soft".
 
Love the Hurley story. That's an Anaconda kid for you. Butte too. Maybe I should undergo a belated clarification of my previous thinking about Montana kids. Surely they've been no slouches in football either.

Reminds me of a great story from "Loose Balls," the wonderfully funny and informative history of the A.B.A. There was a 6'5" "First Team All Bad-Ass" named John Brisker, and nobody wanted to mess with him. Not only was he tough and mean, he carried a gun, and everybody knew it. So they're getting ready for a game, and coach says, "What are we going to do about Brisker?" A seldom-used reserve (may have been Len Chappel, then in the twilight of his career and a bench player) said, "Coach, I'll take care of Brisker. But you have to let me start." Coach says okay, and Chappel starts. The ball goes up for the tip, players head down court, and then somebody notices: Brisker is out cold at center court. Think about it. At the tip, everybody is looking up, their throats exposed, nobody paying attention to anything but the ball. That's when Chappel cold-cocked Brisker. And that team didn't have any more trouble with Brisker.

Of course, you couldn't get away with anything like that today. Christian Laettner, another s.o.b. in his own right, stomped on a guy's stomach while he was lying on the court during an NCAA playoff game, and got away with it. He'd not only be out of the game today, he'd be suspended for the next game too.

Okay, you tell me our kids are Butte-tough and carry guns, I'm good with it.
 
putter said:
They can also pay coaches. Montana will never be a Villanova unless they understand that they have to invest in their programs. Montana needs to keep a TD for 7 or 8 years to develop the pipeline and have the success that Gonzaga has. Takes money to make money
True, both basketball and football.

And, for that matter, on the Academic side as well. Get some "name" profs in some of these departments and of course you have to pay them to be here, but they attract attention, students and money. Ironically, "sports" shows that it works, and it does in Academics elsewhere, but UM (and the other one) have this idea that they can live forever on cheap wages and low salaries and somehow develop quality sports programs and academic programs.

UM is otherwise a good example. It invested wisely in its facilities. It paid off. Now invest in the people.
 
John Cheek

citay said:
Love the Hurley story. That's an Anaconda kid for you. Butte too. Maybe I should undergo a belated clarification of my previous thinking about Montana kids. Surely they've been no slouches in football either.

http://mtstandard.com/sports/high-school/anaconda-loses-a-legend/article_db74c41f-09fc-58c2-820c-e8fcbefcf734.html
. . .
Cheek’s 28 years helming the Anaconda program brought 20 winning seasons. He also won six divisional titles, and had seven other top four place-winnings in the 14 years Anaconda played in divisional tournaments. His 1956 Copperheads were runners-up to Butte Central in the Class AA-A tourney in a 54-50 game, and second to Great Falls High, 60-56 for the state AA title. “He was really intense,” White said. “If the ball went on the floor, it belonged to us. If it was in the air, it was supposed to be ours.” No excuses.

. . . At the University of Montana, Cheek played with the likes of Timer Moses, Lou Rocheleau, Dale Clawson, John Helding, Bob Cope, Charles Davis and Anacondans Dan Marinkovich and Einar Larson. He also played end on the football team. Cheek and Rocheleau, architect of the Missoula County High’s 56-game winning streak in the mid-1960s, later became intense, mutually respected coaching rivals. They also became Montana Coaches Association Hall of Fame members. A doer and a not so much a dreamer, Cheek got on with his life as he graduated from UM, taking the Kalispell job while spurning a law school scholarship to Georgetown and a contract with the NBA’s Boston Celtics. He taught physical education.
“He taught basketball,” White said. “He’d yell at you, but it was always to correct something. It wasn’t for nothing.” “He was very intimidating,” longtime Anaconda official Jeff Frank said. “If he didn’t like something, he’d just glare at you. And you knew you didn’t want to go walk over and talk to him.” Of course, there was a gentler side. Catherine, Cheek’s wife of 60 years, passed in 2004. They brought up five children, many of whom also became coaches and educators, and parents of such. He loved to talk to people, acquaintances all say, and ranked among the area’s top storytellers, too. He held court at the “high tea” in the Club Moderne, almost daily. “He was a big, tough guy and family meant a lot to him,” Keltner said. “But he was there for everybody. Always.
 
UMGriz75 said:
putter said:
They can also pay coaches. Montana will never be a Villanova unless they understand that they have to invest in their programs. Montana needs to keep a TD for 7 or 8 years to develop the pipeline and have the success that Gonzaga has. Takes money to make money
True, both basketball and football.

And, for that matter, on the Academic side as well. Get some "name" profs in some of these departments and of course you have to pay them to be here, but they attract attention, students and money. Ironically, "sports" shows that it works, and it does in Academics elsewhere, but UM (and the other one) have this idea that they can live forever on cheap wages and low salaries and somehow develop quality sports programs and academic programs.

UM is otherwise a good example. It invested wisely in its facilities. It paid off. Now invest in the people.

Hey 75, shut up, royce (little r) is doing OK. :mrgreen:
 
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