What Came 1st, The Snap, or the Timeout?

[PlayerRep]

Jesus. We have the first and second rows on the five yard line. Choat called the time out. Last second - yes. Legal - yes. Acted like he was going to do it again on the last play- did not. Get over it. We have turned into to Browns of the Big Sky. Watching the Cats winning now. Hauck has come home to retire.

How did Choate call the TO?

Voice? Did you really hear him?

Hand signal? Was the ref looking at Choate and not the ball and field? If you were looking at Choate, how could you see when the ball was snapped?

Do you know the rule for calling a TO? If so, why do t you quote it for us.

Thx.

 

[lochlaven]

Ref was waiting. Hand signal.

 

[grizindabox]

People do realize that if the official acknowledges the time out prior to the snap, the whistle may still be after the snap.

 

[hokeyfine]

People do realize that if the official acknowledges the time out prior to the snap, the whistle may still be after the snap.

OMG!!!! Thank you grizindabox! When will this stupid thread end?!?!

 

[PlayerRep]

People do realize that if the official acknowledges the time out prior to the snap, the whistle may still be after the snap.

People also realize that officials can make mistakes and just blow their whistles.

This whole discussion is about trying to figure out what happened, and when, and what the rules are.

As you know.

 

[PlayerRep]

Ref was waiting. Hand signal.

Hand signal by coach? If so, how could the ref have seen whether the ball had been snapped? He couldn't have been looking at the hand signal and the ball at the same time.

Is there any video on this?

 

[grizindabox]

People do realize that if the official acknowledges the time out prior to the snap, the whistle may still be after the snap.

People also realize that officials can make mistakes and just blow their whistles.

This whole discussion is about trying to figure out what happened, and when, and what the rules are.

As you know.

Actually this thread is steaming pile of crap that was only started by someone trying to pin the loss on the officials. Here is what happened, Choate called timeout and it was granted by the official, which would suggest he determined it was called prior to the snap of the ball. /end thread

 

[EverettGriz]

I believe there had to be a second timeouter, over on the grassy knoll.

 

[PlayerRep]

People do realize that if the official acknowledges the time out prior to the snap, the whistle may still be after the snap.

People also realize that officials can make mistakes and just blow their whistles.

This whole discussion is about trying to figure out what happened, and when, and what the rules are.

As you know.

Actually this thread is steaming pile of crap that was only started by someone trying to pin the loss on the officials. Here is what happened, Choate called timeout and it was granted by the official, which would suggest he determined it was called prior to the snap of the ball. /end thread

Officials make mistakes all the time.

The rule indicates that a TO can only be called from the vicinity of the coaching box or team area. No one has posted an interpretation showing how the rule has either been modified or is interpreted.

No video of Choate or the ref, has surfaced, to my knowledge.

Don't think anyone has even bothered to post the video of the play on this thread.

Most posters say the whistle came after the snap. Some have said otherwise. Some posters and people who were on or close to the rail. have said they didn't hear a while. Some has said otherwise.

Some poster said Choate was on the 3 yard line. I have never seen a coach call a TO from the 3 yard line.

I would like to know how Choate called the TO, as well as exactly when, and what the official was looking at then, i.e. ball or Choate. I am just curious.

I am not looking for suggestions or opinions. I am looking for facts.

Yes, everyone knows that the referee granted Choate the TO. We knew that within several seconds of the play ending. Thus, your information adds nothing.

There are many other calls by the officials that influenced the outcome of the game.

In my view, what is the steaming pile of crap is not the thread; it is the BS answers of multiple posters who have posted opinions and other BS when most of us were looking for facts and what really happened.

 

[grizindabox]

People do realize that if the official acknowledges the time out prior to the snap, the whistle may still be after the snap.

People also realize that officials can make mistakes and just blow their whistles.

This whole discussion is about trying to figure out what happened, and when, and what the rules are.

As you know.

Actually this thread is steaming pile of crap that was only started by someone trying to pin the loss on the officials. Here is what happened, Choate called timeout and it was granted by the official, which would suggest he determined it was called prior to the snap of the ball. /end thread

Officials make mistakes all the time.

The rule indicates that a TO can only be called from the vicinity of the coaching box or team area. No one has posted an interpretation showing how the rule has either been modified or is interpreted.

No video of Choate or the ref, has surfaced, to my knowledge.

Don't think anyone has even bothered to post the video of the play on this thread.

Most posters say the whistle came after the snap. Some have said otherwise. Some posters and people who were on or close to the rail. have said they didn't hear a while. Some has said otherwise.

Some poster said Choate was on the 3 yard line. I have never seen a coach call a TO from the 3 yard line.

I would like to know how Choate called the TO, as well as exactly when, and what the official was looking at then, i.e. ball or Choate. I am just curious.

I am not looking for suggestions or opinions. I am looking for facts.

Yes, everyone knows that the referee granted Choate the TO. We knew that within several seconds of the play ending. Thus, your information adds nothing.

There are many other calls by the officials that influenced the outcome of the game.

In my view, what is the steaming pile of crap is not the thread; it is the BS answers of multiple posters who have posted opinions and other BS when most of us were looking for facts and what really happened.

Keep digging then, and report back only when you have all the facts.

 

[GettinGrizzy]

People do realize that if the official acknowledges the time out prior to the snap, the whistle may still be after the snap.

People also realize that officials can make mistakes and just blow their whistles.

This whole discussion is about trying to figure out what happened, and when, and what the rules are.

As you know.

Actually this thread is steaming pile of crap that was only started by someone trying to pin the loss on the officials. Here is what happened, Choate called timeout and it was granted by the official, which would suggest he determined it was called prior to the snap of the ball. /end thread

Officials make mistakes all the time.

The rule indicates that a TO can only be called from the vicinity of the coaching box or team area. No one has posted an interpretation showing how the rule has either been modified or is interpreted.

No video of Choate or the ref, has surfaced, to my knowledge.

Don't think anyone has even bothered to post the video of the play on this thread.

Most posters say the whistle came after the snap. Some have said otherwise. Some posters and people who were on or close to the rail. have said they didn't hear a while. Some has said otherwise.

Some poster said Choate was on the 3 yard line. I have never seen a coach call a TO from the 3 yard line.

I would like to know how Choate called the TO, as well as exactly when, and what the official was looking at then, i.e. ball or Choate. I am just curious.

I am not looking for suggestions or opinions. I am looking for facts.

Yes, everyone knows that the referee granted Choate the TO. We knew that within several seconds of the play ending. Thus, your information adds nothing.

There are many other calls by the officials that influenced the outcome of the game.

In my view, what is the steaming pile of crap is not the thread; it is the BS answers of multiple posters who have posted opinions and other BS when most of us were looking for facts and what really happened.

Why keep asking the same damn questions on this thread? Google or call a college coach and ask about the TO rule and the question on standing on the 3 yard line. Jesus, move on!

 

[PlayerRep]

People also realize that officials can make mistakes and just blow their whistles.

This whole discussion is about trying to figure out what happened, and when, and what the rules are.

As you know.

Actually this thread is steaming pile of crap that was only started by someone trying to pin the loss on the officials. Here is what happened, Choate called timeout and it was granted by the official, which would suggest he determined it was called prior to the snap of the ball. /end thread

Officials make mistakes all the time.

The rule indicates that a TO can only be called from the vicinity of the coaching box or team area. No one has posted an interpretation showing how the rule has either been modified or is interpreted.

No video of Choate or the ref, has surfaced, to my knowledge.

Don't think anyone has even bothered to post the video of the play on this thread.

Most posters say the whistle came after the snap. Some have said otherwise. Some posters and people who were on or close to the rail. have said they didn't hear a while. Some has said otherwise.

Some poster said Choate was on the 3 yard line. I have never seen a coach call a TO from the 3 yard line.

I would like to know how Choate called the TO, as well as exactly when, and what the official was looking at then, i.e. ball or Choate. I am just curious.

I am not looking for suggestions or opinions. I am looking for facts.

Yes, everyone knows that the referee granted Choate the TO. We knew that within several seconds of the play ending. Thus, your information adds nothing.

There are many other calls by the officials that influenced the outcome of the game.

In my view, what is the steaming pile of crap is not the thread; it is the BS answers of multiple posters who have posted opinions and other BS when most of us were looking for facts and what really happened.

Why keep asking the same damn questions on this thread? Google or call a college coach and ask about the TO rule and the question on standing on the 3 yard line. Jesus, move on!

Because posters like yourself keep avoiding providing any substantive information and/or keep making up stuff. Just looking for the facts. And, it's the offseason. Spring ball not till March. I have googled, and I've quoted the rule. When I called the head of NCAA rules and refs, he referred me back to egriz.

 

[PlayerRep]

People also realize that officials can make mistakes and just blow their whistles.

This whole discussion is about trying to figure out what happened, and when, and what the rules are.

As you know.

Actually this thread is steaming pile of crap that was only started by someone trying to pin the loss on the officials. Here is what happened, Choate called timeout and it was granted by the official, which would suggest he determined it was called prior to the snap of the ball. /end thread

Officials make mistakes all the time.

The rule indicates that a TO can only be called from the vicinity of the coaching box or team area. No one has posted an interpretation showing how the rule has either been modified or is interpreted.

No video of Choate or the ref, has surfaced, to my knowledge.

Don't think anyone has even bothered to post the video of the play on this thread.

Most posters say the whistle came after the snap. Some have said otherwise. Some posters and people who were on or close to the rail. have said they didn't hear a while. Some has said otherwise.

Some poster said Choate was on the 3 yard line. I have never seen a coach call a TO from the 3 yard line.

I would like to know how Choate called the TO, as well as exactly when, and what the official was looking at then, i.e. ball or Choate. I am just curious.

I am not looking for suggestions or opinions. I am looking for facts.

Yes, everyone knows that the referee granted Choate the TO. We knew that within several seconds of the play ending. Thus, your information adds nothing.

There are many other calls by the officials that influenced the outcome of the game.

In my view, what is the steaming pile of crap is not the thread; it is the BS answers of multiple posters who have posted opinions and other BS when most of us were looking for facts and what really happened.

Keep digging then, and report back only when you have all the facts.

I am digging, but mainly on egriz. Spring ball doesn't start until, so I'm in no hurry.

 

[mtgrizrule]

People also realize that officials can make mistakes and just blow their whistles.

This whole discussion is about trying to figure out what happened, and when, and what the rules are.

As you know.

Actually this thread is steaming pile of crap that was only started by someone trying to pin the loss on the officials. Here is what happened, Choate called timeout and it was granted by the official, which would suggest he determined it was called prior to the snap of the ball. /end thread

Officials make mistakes all the time.

The rule indicates that a TO can only be called from the vicinity of the coaching box or team area. No one has posted an interpretation showing how the rule has either been modified or is interpreted.

No video of Choate or the ref, has surfaced, to my knowledge.

Don't think anyone has even bothered to post the video of the play on this thread.

Most posters say the whistle came after the snap. Some have said otherwise. Some posters and people who were on or close to the rail. have said they didn't hear a while. Some has said otherwise.

Some poster said Choate was on the 3 yard line. I have never seen a coach call a TO from the 3 yard line.

I would like to know how Choate called the TO, as well as exactly when, and what the official was looking at then, i.e. ball or Choate. I am just curious.

I am not looking for suggestions or opinions. I am looking for facts.

Yes, everyone knows that the referee granted Choate the TO. We knew that within several seconds of the play ending. Thus, your information adds nothing.

There are many other calls by the officials that influenced the outcome of the game.

In my view, what is the steaming pile of crap is not the thread; it is the BS answers of multiple posters who have posted opinions and other BS when most of us were looking for facts and what really happened.

Keep digging then, and report back only when you have all the facts.

I did ask a coach regarding this kind of situation, and posted it already. In summary, it is discretionary. If the ball is snapped before a whistle and/or proper communication to be completed, the officials decision is what goes. They can go either way on this. With time, they have gotten to where we are at now, by granting the timeout to the requesting team, even if all the communication was not completed properly. Doing it this way is less controversial, and the lesser of a mess to justify.


However, the point of my original post, was to get some kind of "OFFICIAL" ruling based on how the NCAA rulebook/rules are to carry it out. We have yet to have anyone actually 100% know for fact, technically what the rules are. The closest we have seen posted are very loose rules and very subject to questioning, due to very vague wording. As far as the opening post, go back and read it. It was not one of blaming the loss on this. I don't take PR's posts on this as blaming or outright saying the officials were right or wrong. Sounds to me, he too would like a clearer verfication and answer to this.

To me, with what we do know, and have come up with, either ruling could have been justified, even if the officials had granted the play in question to stand, because the snap of the ball did occur very slightly before the whistle could be heard clearly. That simply based on me watching and listening to the replay countless times. Even with surround sound on, I not one time heard a whistle earlier than the snap. In this case, the officials did what is has become common place to do. I for one, completely understand and respect the way things played out, as is. However, that still does not officially clear up what the true intent of the rules are supposed to be? That is what I truly want to know!!! Not one person has been able to provide that.

If that continues to be openly vague and subject to intrepation, at some point in time, it is very possible an officiating crew let a play stand under these same circumstances. I honestly would like to know a definite answer on this from someone of an official NCAA or Conference officiating position. It is obvious, the conference will stand by the decison, as is. However, that doesn't mean that is the way the rules were/are intended. Open to interpretation isn't the correct result.

Someone show more precise communiciation on this, or explain the rules better. If, the rules are intended to be vague, then change them to make officiating easier!!!! This thread was not intended to have sides. As a fan, is asking for better clarification and changes (if needed) asking too much? Apparently so, being not one person has yet to provide 100% concrete, iron clad verification. If you want this thread to end, someone/anyone provide something more than just an opinion and arguments. I really would love to see an NCAA Referree explain this better to us, then get on making the rulebook better for the game, officials, and fans!!!!

 

[PlayerRep]

Rule, if in fact Choate was standing on the 3 (as one poster said), have you seen TO's called from there? I haven't or haven't noticed.

 

[mtgrizrule]

Rule, if in fact Choate was standing on the 3 (as one poster said), have you seen TO's called from there? I haven't or haven't noticed.

The furthest down field I recall a coach being is between the 15 and 20 yard line. In my opinion, 10 yards out of the designated coaching box is within reason, depending on situation. I know, I've asked a few coaches to be aware of their coaching box in basketball. Again, a few feet is acceptable and reasonable, but coaches extending that out to the end of the court? Sorry, that won't fly with me officiating.

I do feel, the coaches box should be more emphasized in each sport. No question, rule changes to timeouts have to change as well. Another factor favoring that is player safety. What if a player got hurt on a play that didn't count, or the follow up play, because of a late whistle? There has to be something more reasonable for the officials, coaches, and fans. AS IS, it is a cluster F---!

 

[PlayerRep]

Thanks. I agree that the TO rule should be clarified. I see no reason for an "intentional" and strategic TO to be allowed to be called in this type of situation. It is too distracting for the ref, and it would seem to be prone to mistake. Also, I see no reason for a coach to be allowed to be standing at the 3, and by a ref at the 3. Assuming this is what Choate did. There is a reason for the coaching box.

 

[PlayerRep]

The LSU coach just ran from the coaching box to about the 10 or 12 to call a TO. Seems different than standing with the ref. He needed to run toward the ref to get the attention of the ref.

 

[PAGriz]

People do realize that if the official acknowledges the time out prior to the snap, the whistle may still be after the snap.

People also realize that officials can make mistakes and just blow their whistles.

This whole discussion is about trying to figure out what happened, and when, and what the rules are.

As you know.

Actually this thread is steaming pile of crap that was only started by someone trying to pin the loss on the officials. Here is what happened, Choate called timeout and it was granted by the official, which would suggest he determined it was called prior to the snap of the ball. /end thread

Officials make mistakes all the time.

The rule indicates that a TO can only be called from the vicinity of the coaching box or team area. No one has posted an interpretation showing how the rule has either been modified or is interpreted.

No video of Choate or the ref, has surfaced, to my knowledge.

Don't think anyone has even bothered to post the video of the play on this thread.

Most posters say the whistle came after the snap. Some have said otherwise. Some posters and people who were on or close to the rail. have said they didn't hear a while. Some has said otherwise.

Some poster said Choate was on the 3 yard line. I have never seen a coach call a TO from the 3 yard line.

I would like to know how Choate called the TO, as well as exactly when, and what the official was looking at then, i.e. ball or Choate. I am just curious.

I am not looking for suggestions or opinions. I am looking for facts.

Yes, everyone knows that the referee granted Choate the TO. We knew that within several seconds of the play ending. Thus, your information adds nothing.

There are many other calls by the officials that influenced the outcome of the game.

In my view, what is the steaming pile of crap is not the thread; it is the BS answers of multiple posters who have posted opinions and other BS when most of us were looking for facts and what really happened.

Just watched LSU’s head coach call one from the 6 yard line in OT

 

[PlayerRep]

People also realize that officials can make mistakes and just blow their whistles.

This whole discussion is about trying to figure out what happened, and when, and what the rules are.

As you know.

Actually this thread is steaming pile of crap that was only started by someone trying to pin the loss on the officials. Here is what happened, Choate called timeout and it was granted by the official, which would suggest he determined it was called prior to the snap of the ball. /end thread

Officials make mistakes all the time.

The rule indicates that a TO can only be called from the vicinity of the coaching box or team area. No one has posted an interpretation showing how the rule has either been modified or is interpreted.

No video of Choate or the ref, has surfaced, to my knowledge.

Don't think anyone has even bothered to post the video of the play on this thread.

Most posters say the whistle came after the snap. Some have said otherwise. Some posters and people who were on or close to the rail. have said they didn't hear a while. Some has said otherwise.

Some poster said Choate was on the 3 yard line. I have never seen a coach call a TO from the 3 yard line.

I would like to know how Choate called the TO, as well as exactly when, and what the official was looking at then, i.e. ball or Choate. I am just curious.

I am not looking for suggestions or opinions. I am looking for facts.

Yes, everyone knows that the referee granted Choate the TO. We knew that within several seconds of the play ending. Thus, your information adds nothing.

There are many other calls by the officials that influenced the outcome of the game.

In my view, what is the steaming pile of crap is not the thread; it is the BS answers of multiple posters who have posted opinions and other BS when most of us were looking for facts and what really happened.

Just watched LSU’s head coach call one from the 6 yard line in OT

See the above post. No, the coach was not at the 6 yard line. He also wasn't standing by the ref. He as running down the sideline.