What Came 1st, The Snap, or the Timeout?

[grizindabox]

The TO as it is acknowledged by the official would always precede the actual whistle. And I don't see anything in the rule that mentions the whistle.

 

[mtgrizrule]

Is this something the Conference can give us an answer too, or even ask Choate and/or Hauck how the timeouts are to be administered? In most every sport, the movement of the ball (the snap in this case), take precedent over the whistle. Why do you think football teams rush to get a ball snapped in possible replay situations? That is because the snap take precedence over the officials stopping play.

 

[mtgrizrule]

The TO as it is acknowledged by the official would always precede the actual whistle. And I don't see anything in the rule that mentions the whistle.

It also states that a snap supercedes all. Another thing we don't know, What is considered an official's acknowledgement? The coach asking for a timeout so late, certainly complicates the process.

 

[Sam A. Blitz]

Define vicinity. I saw Choate talk to the line judge before the play. My seats were a few rows up on the 15 yard line on the West side, so had a good view of it. It appeared he told him that he was going to call a TO right before the snap. The LJ didn't panick. He was ready for it to be called right before the snap, which it was. The whistle came after the snap, the TO was before. The only thing you can be critical of in that scenario is the timing of the whistle from the LJ. That doesn't dictate anything though.

15 yard line is out of the vicinity, in my view. Where, exactly, was Choate standing when the TO was called? How close was Choate to the player area or coaching box when he called the TO? If you were right there, I assume know.

How do you know it was called before the snap? What's your evidence of that? Did you hear Choate? Did Choate signal with his hands? if so, how could the ref see Choate and see whether the ball was snapped?

Why were you watching Choate and the ref when the TO was called, instead of the upcoming play, perhaps the most important play of the season. Seems odd that you weren't watching the upcoming play.

What's your support for saying the timing of the whistle doesn't matter? Just curious. Or, did you just make that up?

It wasn't the ref, it was the line judge.

It happened pretty close to below me. I was watching Choate because he was actively running around barking orders and engaged the LJ before the play. I'm assuming to have him prepared for the call?

What was the LJ supposed to do, ignore the TO call because he couldn't whistle before the snap? Ignore it when he was outside of an undefined vicinity? TO whistle happen during or immediately after the snap all the time. Coaches are outside the coaches box to talk to refs before live ball all the time, especially to call a TO in that situation.

Choate executed the entire thing well. It APPEARED that he was prepping for the TO and called it. I can't provide you "evidence". I don't have pictures and wasn't taking video. I don't really care if you believe me. It's my point of view on the play of which I had a pretty good observance point. Why didn't Hauck blow a gasket over it, if it was in fact an officiating error?

What would you have done differently as an official in that situation, PR, besides blowing the whistle sooner?

In my view, all officials on the field are "refs". Don't get your feelings hurt. I'm just challenging some of what you said. You said Choate called the TO timely and properly, but I knew that you couldn't possibly have known that and it was unlikely that you were even looking at Choate/ref at the time. You would have been looking at the play.

On Hauck, do you know he didn't blow a gasket? I assume he didn't want to get a penalty at that point of the game and at that point of the field. I would hope he'd be very careful.

How do you "know" what I saw? Do you have evidence? What do you have to support that you know what I saw? I don't come onto message boards to lie or speculate. I have no skin in the game in this, besides being a Griz fan. Trying to be objective based on what I saw and observed. If that doesn't fit your agenda, then I'm sorry...

I'm assuming if this was a blatant FUBAR as you are suggesting that Hauck would have at least argued with the ref about it like he does and all coaches do when they don't agree with the call. I didn't see how Hauck reacted to that, but I don't remember him being critical. Not after the game in the presser either. Maybe he is, but I doubt it.

 

[grizindabox]

The TO as it is acknowledged by the official would always precede the actual whistle. And I don't see anything in the rule that mentions the whistle.

It also states that a snap supercedes all. Another thing we don't know, What is considered an official's acknowledgement? The coach asking for a timeout so late, certainly complicates the process.

If I ask for a TO and the official determines that it precedes the snap, they will grant it.

 

[Zirg]

My question is why was it legal for Choate to be all the way down standing behind the line judge two plays in a row? I thought they had to stay in the "box" on the sidelines?

Bobby Hauck also ran on the field all the way to about the 10 yard line and 10 yards onto the field of play to call a time-out in the game, but nobody seems to remember that. All coaches run down the sideline (outside the box?) and often on the field if necessary to get the refs attention. As has been stated by a cpl astute commentators it doesn't matter if the whistle happens before the snap. If the ref sees the time-out called before the snap, he blows the whistle and runs in to signal a time-out even if the snap happens simultaneously or even slightly before he blows the whistle and a touch-down or Field-goal ensues. How many last-second field-goal attempts have you seen play out and then "Oh, wait a time-out was apparently called before the kick". Every day if you watch much football.

 

[hm.grwn.grizfan]

It was a brilliant coaching move. A good team would have converted despite the timeout.

 

[lochlaven]

Choate walked down to the three and called it at the last second. He acted like he was going to do it again on the last play and pulled back. He did not talk to the officials previous to calling the t.o..

 

[RobertoGato]

Good grief... what a conspiratorial hissy fit.

He called a time. out. I realize it was crushing to think you won, and have the play called off, but there is nothing irregular about using your time outs.

Are ya’ll also bent out of shape that the Cats got four downs? Or were allowed to attempt forward passes from behind the line of scrimmage? Or that they forced Griz players to tackle them rather than just going down of their own accord?

Do you guys need a handicap in the brawl now?

I thought you guys weren’t supposed to care about this game.

 

[nzone]

That timeout was called almost simultaneously with the snap. I watched Choate the whole time and from my vantage point the time out seems to be taken right at the snap. I knew he was going to it that’s why I watched him. I have no idea how it works if the ball and the timeout are at the same time but I do know that just because he tells the ref he is taking one doesn’t mean it’s taken. Montana played well enough to win this game but didn’t finish the final 20 seconds and it only makes sense that fans are pissed about it. Oh I can hardly wait for state ag to play North Dakota State and watch them get the hell beat out of them. Will make for a good beginning to the Holiday season.

 

[bigsky33]

That timeout was called almost simultaneously with the snap. I watched Choate the whole time and from my vantage point the time out seems to be taken right at the snap. I knew he was going to it that’s why I watched him. I have no idea how it works if the ball and the timeout are at the same time but I do know that just because he tells the ref he is taking one doesn’t mean it’s taken. Montana played well enough to win this game but didn’t finish the final 20 seconds and it only makes sense that fans are pissed about it. Oh I can hardly wait for state ag to play North Dakota State and watch them get the hell beat out of them. Will make for a good beginning to the Holiday season.

At least the Cats have the chance to play at NDSU and won't be home watching the Griz get their head handed to them there.

 

[nzone]

Bring out the checkbook or I mean the stretchers. The one and done cats are hopefully going to show up. Or will Choate call time out? :?:

 

[RobertoGato]

"You're going to get beat by the best program in FCS history in the 2nd round of the playoffs while we sit home" is the most hilarious (pathetic?) criticism I've read on here today. Granted, it's only 8:00 am.

 

[info]

Are you the guy that stated on cat nation that watching our fumble on the goal line was his “new porn”. If so, take your lotion and kleenexes back to cat nation.

 

[CatzWillRise]

Choate walked down to the three and called it at the last second. He acted like he was going to do it again on the last play and pulled back. He did not talk to the officials previous to calling the t.o..

Choate said on his post-game presser "I told the line judge I was planning on calling a timeout". Said he wanted to see the formation, but the Griz were a little disjointed when they broke the huddle so he had to see the formation first.

 

[The.Real.2506]

Choate timed the TO with Sneeds pre-snap crouch

 

[debellatio]

This whole thread is irrelevant. The referees are going to give a coach that time out every time. The fact of the matter is the Griz could not hold onto the football in the closing minutes of the game again, make a 40 yard fieldgoal in the 3rd quarter that would have changed the complexion of the game, or consistently move the ball and score in the 2nd half.

 

[PlayerRep]

That timeout was called almost simultaneously with the snap. I watched Choate the whole time and from my vantage point the time out seems to be taken right at the snap. I knew he was going to it that’s why I watched him. I have no idea how it works if the ball and the timeout are at the same time but I do know that just because he tells the ref he is taking one doesn’t mean it’s taken. Montana played well enough to win this game but didn’t finish the final 20 seconds and it only makes sense that fans are pissed about it. Oh I can hardly wait for state ag to play North Dakota State and watch them get the hell beat out of them. Will make for a good beginning to the Holiday season.

How did Choate call the TO?

I assume you couldn't hear him? True?

Did he signal with his hands? If so, was the ref looking at him? And, if so, how could the ref look at Choate and determine whether the ball was snapped at the same time?

I suppose Choate could have done both.

What did the ref do when Choate called the TO?

 

[The.Real.2506]

I love fact that PR is still trying to argue a losing viewpoint

 

[grzz]

My question is why was it legal for Choate to be all the way down standing behind the line judge two plays in a row? I thought they had to stay in the "box" on the sidelines?

Bobby Hauck also ran on the field all the way to about the 10 yard line and 10 yards onto the field of play to call a time-out in the game, but nobody seems to remember that. All coaches run down the sideline (outside the box?) and often on the field if necessary to get the refs attention. As has been stated by a cpl astute commentators it doesn't matter if the whistle happens before the snap. If the ref sees the time-out called before the snap, he blows the whistle and runs in to signal a time-out even if the snap happens simultaneously or even slightly before he blows the whistle and a touch-down or Field-goal ensues. How many last-second field-goal attempts have you seen play out and then "Oh, wait a time-out was apparently called before the kick". Every day if you watch much football.

Well Zirg, this is a fan message board and the beginning of a long off-season so we can really talk about whatever we want. Would you prefer this moment in a game, or a move-up thread? Or maybe stadium music? Or uniforms?

If the coach runs out and immediately takes a timeout, it is obnoxious but different. Choate was standing behind the line judge two plays in a row basically studying the play and deciding if he wanted to take a timeout. To me, that is different. Yes, we still should have executed from the one yard line on the next play, and yes I think the coaches should have changed the play call more than flipping sides after we ran it on the timeout play, but it doesn't change the fact that this is one of the more conversational points from the game. I haven't made a single excuse in any of my posts, I just wanted some clarification on the rule.