Watering down of FCS

[HerdFan12]

Marshall. UConn. UMass. Nevada.

Shit, even WKU has had some good recent success.

Marshall has won 36 games over the last 7 years. That is not success.

Marshall is 122-82 since 1997
4 Top 25 finishes in the final Polls
38 Weeks in the Top 25 Polls
1 undefeated season, 1999
1 Top 10 finish
5 Conference Titles
6 Top 25 wins
1 Top 10 wins
7-2 In Bowl Games
3 Heisman Finalist

Marshall last year had the #6 overall offence in the nation and the #1 passing attack, we avged 40.6 points per game last year. Our QB threw for 4201 yards and is on pace to break Chad Pennington and Byron Leftwich's passing records. We just had a DC that didn't have a clue. Its hard to stop anyone when your DC plays your safeties and DBs 10 yards of the ball on 3rd and 4.

Each one of our Bowl Games out drew our NC in attendance and ratings.

 

[grizfan95]

Marshall. UConn. UMass. Nevada.

Shit, even WKU has had some good recent success.

Marshall has won 36 games over the last 7 years. That is not success.

Marshall is 122-82 since 1997
4 Top 25 finishes in the final Polls
38 Weeks in the Top 25 Polls
1 undefeated season, 1999
1 Top 10 finish
5 Conference Titles
6 Top 25 wins
1 Top 10 wins
7-2 In Bowl Games
3 Heisman Finalist

Marshall last year had the #6 overall offence in the nation and the #1 passing attack, we avged 40.6 points per game last year. Our QB threw for 4201 yards and is on pace to break Chad Pennington and Byron Leftwich's passing records. We just had a DC that didn't have a clue. Its hard to stop anyone when your DC plays your safeties and DBs 10 yards of the ball on 3rd and 4.

Each one of our Bowl Games out drew our NC in attendance and ratings.

Indeed, Marshall was very good in the first 6 years of that transition with Pennington and Leftwich. But the last 7 years have seen a very dominant trend and we'll have to wait and see where that goes, but it does not look good.

You also failed to mention that last year Marshall averaged 24,896 for attendance, or 65% capacity.
The Griz averaged 25,236 or 100.1% capacity. When teams move up and do poorly consistently, fans lose interest.

 

[kemajic]

Marshall. UConn. UMass. Nevada.

Shit, even WKU has had some good recent success.

Marshall has won 36 games over the last 7 years. That is not success.

Marshall is 122-82 since 1997
4 Top 25 finishes in the final Polls
38 Weeks in the Top 25 Polls
1 undefeated season, 1999
1 Top 10 finish
5 Conference Titles
6 Top 25 wins
1 Top 10 wins
7-2 In Bowl Games
3 Heisman Finalist

Marshall last year had the #6 overall offence in the nation and the #1 passing attack, we avged 40.6 points per game last year. Our QB threw for 4201 yards and is on pace to break Chad Pennington and Byron Leftwich's passing records. We just had a DC that didn't have a clue. Its hard to stop anyone when your DC plays your safeties and DBs 10 yards of the ball on 3rd and 4.

Each one of our Bowl Games out drew our NC in attendance and ratings.

Indeed, Marshall was very good in the first 6 years of that transition with Pennington and Leftwich. But the last 7 years have seen a very dominant trend and we'll have to wait and see where that goes, but it does not look good.

You also failed to mention that last year Marshall averaged 24,896 for attendance, or 65% capacity.
The Griz averaged 25,236 or 100.1% capacity. When teams move up and do poorly consistently, fans lose interest.

Like many others in the East, Marshall is not the only game in town, as Montana is. They are surrounded by OSU, Cincinnati, UK, VT and UWV. They far outpace UM in TV viewership and its revenue. Marshall is still recovering from the Pruett debacle, which had nothing to do with moving up. The data shows they have not done "poorly consistently." Their move up to FBS was a breeze; their later move up to Conf USA, not so much. They have dominated in FBS before; they have a strong fan base and tradition and will be back.

 

[IdaGriz01]

Just to give a more complete picture, here are the records for Marshall football, going back a ways. They have not had a winning regular-season record for ten years: In 2003, they went 8-4. Oddly enough, they did not go to a bowl game that year.

2012 5-7
2011 6-6 . . . Beef O’Brady’s Bowl, beat Florida International
2010 5-7
2009 6-6 . . . Little Caesar’s Bowl, beat Ohio U.
2008 4-8
2007 3-9
2006 5-7
2005 4-7
2004 6-6

That gives them a 44-63 (41%) regular season record over that period. My guess is, the powers-that-be at Marshall are okay with this -- they do have the better TV presence during the regular season, plus a couple of bowls. No matter how some may feel about those bowls … people, including potential recruits, do watch.

I would guess the fan base is not particularly happy, but we know that fans are always hopeful that their team will turn it around. And, unless they essentially boycott the games, the stadium crowd at least looks respectable. The fact that attendance could be better is probably more than offset by the TV revenue as far as the administration is concerned.
:twocents:

 

[kemajic]

Just to give a more complete picture, here are the records for Marshall football, going back a ways. They have not had a winning regular-season record for ten years: In 2003, they went 8-4. Oddly enough, they did not go to a bowl game that year.

2012 5-7
2011 6-6 . . . Beef O’Brady’s Bowl, beat Florida International (7-6)
2010 5-7
2009 6-6 . . . Little Caesar’s Bowl, beat Ohio U. (7-6)
2008 4-8
2007 3-9
2006 5-7
2005 4-7
2004 6-6

That gives them a 44-63 (41%) regular season record over that period. My guess is, the powers-that-be at Marshall are okay with this -- they do have the better TV presence during the regular season, plus a couple of bowls. No matter how some may feel about those bowls … people, including potential recruits, do watch.

I would guess the fan base is not particularly happy, but we know that fans are always hopeful that their team will turn it around. And, unless they essentially boycott the games, the stadium crowd at least looks respectable. The fact that attendance could be better is probably more than offset by the TV revenue as far as the administration is concerned.
:twocents:

You are not giving the "complete picture." Only the most recent picture, selected at 9 years to illustrate the worst. And you might mention that their losses in your 9 years include BSC powers UWV (7), VT (3), Cinn (3), OSU (2), KSU (2), Wisconsin and Georgia. The complete picture since moving up was previously posted and is impressive overall. In fact, outstanding from '97 through '03 (73-17). Idaho could only hope for such. Yes, their performance is currently mediocre; understood, but believe it is more likely a cycle, with their history, than a spiral. But thanks for your illumination.

 

[IdaGriz01]

Just to give a more complete picture ...
...
My guess is, the powers-that-be at Marshall are okay with this -- they do have the better TV presence during the regular season, plus a couple of bowls.

You are not giving the "complete picture." Only the most recent picture, selected at 9 years to illustrate the worst. And you might mention that their losses in your 9 years include BSC powers UWV (7), VT (3), Cinn (3), OSU (2), KSU (2), Wisconsin and Georgia. The complete picture since moving up was previously posted and is impressive overall. In fact, outstanding from '97 through '03 (73-17). Idaho could only hope for such. Yes, their performance is currently mediocre; understood, but believe it is more likely a cycle, with their history, than a spiral. But thanks for your illumination.

Why the apparent heat? I was not trying to "cherry pick" a particular set of years just to make them look bad. The earlier posts gave the overall record, and showed they they had had considerable success after they moved up -- that did not need to be repeated. But I think it is legit to ask "what have you done for me lately" when it covers a full decade. That's a pretty long cycle for fans to sit through.

More to the point, I did say that I thought the folks in charge were "okay with this." As you noted, they get to play some powerhouse teams, which gives them vastly greater TV exposure than they would ever have gotten at the FCS level. Plus, the bowl games during that period did give them a winning record for the whole season. And those bowls were against pretty good teams: The 2009 Ohio U. team went 9-3 in the regular season before losing in the MAC championship and then to Marshall. Florida International was 8-4 for the 2011 regular season.

 

[HerdFan12]

Just to give a more complete picture, here are the records for Marshall football, going back a ways. They have not had a winning regular-season record for ten years: In 2003, they went 8-4. Oddly enough, they did not go to a bowl game that year.

2012 5-7
2011 6-6 . . . Beef O’Brady’s Bowl, beat Florida International
2010 5-7
2009 6-6 . . . Little Caesar’s Bowl, beat Ohio U.
2008 4-8
2007 3-9
2006 5-7
2005 4-7
2004 6-6

That gives them a 44-63 (41%) regular season record over that period. My guess is, the powers-that-be at Marshall are okay with this -- they do have the better TV presence during the regular season, plus a couple of bowls. No matter how some may feel about those bowls … people, including potential recruits, do watch.

I would guess the fan base is not particularly happy, but we know that fans are always hopeful that their team will turn it around. And, unless they essentially boycott the games, the stadium crowd at least looks respectable. The fact that attendance could be better is probably more than offset by the TV revenue as far as the administration is concerned.
:twocents:

I see you cherry picked the seasons you wanted to highlight. Marshall fired their DC that was not fit to run a defense. To give you an idea how bad he is as DC, its the main reason Paul Pasqualoni was fired at Syacuse. Chris Rippon was the DC at Cuse in 02, 03 and 04. Each year the D- got worse. We avged 40.6 points a game last year. We just couldn't stop anyone.

In the last 3 years Marshall has had the #3 NAQ recruiting class (2011) and the #1 NAQ recruiting class (2012, 2013). We have had 13 4 star players and 43 3 star players commit to us. We have had 21 recruits that are in the top 20 at their position and 8 of those were in the top 10 at their position. We have also taken the top recruit out of South Florida the last 3 years in Kevin Grooms RB, AJ Leggett DB/LB and Angelo Jean-Louis WR.

Some of you may or may not like him but Phil Steele has give Marshall as his #1 most improved team status to. This is after 9 year of him saying we would win no more than 5 games per season.

Also come fall of 2014 it should be that much more easy for Marshall to recruit. Starting last year our vision campaign which had been silent for 3 years went public. The vision campaign was set up to do 30 million dollars in facilities which include: a soccer complex, IAC (Indoor Athletic Complex) which will hold a 120 yard football field, 6 lane 300m track, batting cages for baseball and softball, portable rolling tennis courts, nets for a driving range and seats for aprox 750 people. Included in the IAC will also be a Hall of Fame, Academic Center and a Sports Medicine Center.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtmhLfYmmVs[/youtube]
Marshall IAC Groundbreaking

Not included in the vision campaign but on going right now is 2 new suites going up at Joan C Edwards Stadium. Both have already been bought with an 8 year contract of 65K per year.

 

[FCS Go!]

OK, We get it. Marshall is awesome and a huge FBS success.

 

[IdaGriz01]

I see you cherry picked the seasons you wanted to highlight. Marshall fired their DC that was not fit to run a defense. To give you an idea how bad he is as DC, its the main reason Paul Pasqualoni was fired at Syacuse. Chris Rippon was the DC at Cuse in 02, 03 and 04. Each year the D- got worse. We avged 40.6 points a game last year. We just couldn't stop anyone.

In the last 3 years Marshall has had the #3 NAQ recruiting class (2011) and the #1 NAQ recruiting class (2012, 2013). We have had 13 4 star players and 43 3 star players commit to us. We have had 21 recruits that are in the top 20 at their position and 8 of those were in the top 10 at their position. We have also taken the top recruit out of South Florida the last 3 years in Kevin Grooms RB, AJ Leggett DB/LB and Angelo Jean-Louis WR.

Some of you may or may not like him but Phil Steele has give Marshall as his #1 most improved team status to. This is after 9 year of him saying we would win no more than 5 games per season.

Also come fall of 2014 it should be that much more easy for Marshall to recruit. Starting last year our vision campaign which had been silent for 3 years went public. The vision campaign was set up to do 30 million dollars in facilities which include: a soccer complex, IAC (Indoor Athletic Complex) which will hold a 120 yard football field, 6 lane 300m track, batting cages for baseball and softball, portable rolling tennis courts, nets for a driving range and seats for aprox 750 people. Included in the IAC will also be a Hall of Fame, Academic Center and a Sports Medicine Center.
...
Not included in the vision campaign but on going right now is 2 new suites going up at Joan C Edwards Stadium. Both have already been bought with an 8 year contract of 65K per year.

Odd, that you call it "cherry picking" to show every season for the last full decade. It had already been established, by other posts, that Marshall had done really well at first, after it moved to FCS, but not so well more recently. I was, in fact, reacting to this post

Marshall has won 36 games over the last 7 years. That is not success.

That averaged out to just over 5 wins per year, and I wondered what the actual record looked like. As I checked the ESPN data, I kept going back until I reached the last really good year (8-4 in 2003). Once I had the data, I though other people might be interested. "Cherry picking" would have been -- I suppose -- to only mention the losing seasons, tote up that won-loss record, and skip the two bowl games.

The reasons why the last nine years were not so good are interesting, but do not change the numbers. I'm glad that Marshall fans think they've turned the corner and put the bad stuff behind the program, and hope you're right.

 

[PlayerRep]

Just to give a more complete picture, here are the records for Marshall football, going back a ways. They have not had a winning regular-season record for ten years: In 2003, they went 8-4. Oddly enough, they did not go to a bowl game that year.

2012 5-7
2011 6-6 . . . Beef O’Brady’s Bowl, beat Florida International
2010 5-7
2009 6-6 . . . Little Caesar’s Bowl, beat Ohio U.
2008 4-8
2007 3-9
2006 5-7
2005 4-7
2004 6-6

That gives them a 44-63 (41%) regular season record over that period. My guess is, the powers-that-be at Marshall are okay with this -- they do have the better TV presence during the regular season, plus a couple of bowls. No matter how some may feel about those bowls … people, including potential recruits, do watch.

I would guess the fan base is not particularly happy, but we know that fans are always hopeful that their team will turn it around. And, unless they essentially boycott the games, the stadium crowd at least looks respectable. The fact that attendance could be better is probably more than offset by the TV revenue as far as the administration is concerned.
:twocents:

With that lack of success for that many years, I doubt that UM would get 15,000 at games. The football and athletic programs would unravel.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Just to give a more complete picture, here are the records for Marshall football, going back a ways. They have not had a winning regular-season record for ten years: In 2003, they went 8-4. Oddly enough, they did not go to a bowl game that year.

2012 5-7
2011 6-6 . . . Beef O’Brady’s Bowl, beat Florida International
2010 5-7
2009 6-6 . . . Little Caesar’s Bowl, beat Ohio U.
2008 4-8
2007 3-9
2006 5-7
2005 4-7
2004 6-6

That gives them a 44-63 (41%) regular season record over that period. My guess is, the powers-that-be at Marshall are okay with this -- they do have the better TV presence during the regular season, plus a couple of bowls. No matter how some may feel about those bowls … people, including potential recruits, do watch.

I would guess the fan base is not particularly happy, but we know that fans are always hopeful that their team will turn it around. And, unless they essentially boycott the games, the stadium crowd at least looks respectable. The fact that attendance could be better is probably more than offset by the TV revenue as far as the administration is concerned.
:twocents:

With that lack of success for that many years, I doubt that UM would get 15,000 at games. The football and athletic programs would unravel.

I fear you may be right. 26,000 would rather watch the vaunted Griz beat up on teams like UNC, ISU, PSU and Weber than play real competition like Boise, USU, CSU, AFA, etc.

 

[EverettGriz]

Just to give a more complete picture, here are the records for Marshall football, going back a ways. They have not had a winning regular-season record for ten years: In 2003, they went 8-4. Oddly enough, they did not go to a bowl game that year.

2012 5-7
2011 6-6 . . . Beef O’Brady’s Bowl, beat Florida International
2010 5-7
2009 6-6 . . . Little Caesar’s Bowl, beat Ohio U.
2008 4-8
2007 3-9
2006 5-7
2005 4-7
2004 6-6

That gives them a 44-63 (41%) regular season record over that period. My guess is, the powers-that-be at Marshall are okay with this -- they do have the better TV presence during the regular season, plus a couple of bowls. No matter how some may feel about those bowls … people, including potential recruits, do watch.

I would guess the fan base is not particularly happy, but we know that fans are always hopeful that their team will turn it around. And, unless they essentially boycott the games, the stadium crowd at least looks respectable. The fact that attendance could be better is probably more than offset by the TV revenue as far as the administration is concerned.
:twocents:

With that lack of success for that many years, I doubt that UM would get 15,000 at games. The football and athletic programs would unravel.

So UM has shitty, fair weather fans now?

Remarkable. Anything to try and support a position.

If UM goes FBS, the current fans stay, and we attract fans who otherwise don't care about FCS football (and there are many more of those in MT than you think).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[PlayerRep]

Just to give a more complete picture, here are the records for Marshall football, going back a ways. They have not had a winning regular-season record for ten years: In 2003, they went 8-4. Oddly enough, they did not go to a bowl game that year.

2012 5-7
2011 6-6 . . . Beef O’Brady’s Bowl, beat Florida International
2010 5-7
2009 6-6 . . . Little Caesar’s Bowl, beat Ohio U.
2008 4-8
2007 3-9
2006 5-7
2005 4-7
2004 6-6

That gives them a 44-63 (41%) regular season record over that period. My guess is, the powers-that-be at Marshall are okay with this -- they do have the better TV presence during the regular season, plus a couple of bowls. No matter how some may feel about those bowls … people, including potential recruits, do watch.

I would guess the fan base is not particularly happy, but we know that fans are always hopeful that their team will turn it around. And, unless they essentially boycott the games, the stadium crowd at least looks respectable. The fact that attendance could be better is probably more than offset by the TV revenue as far as the administration is concerned.
:twocents:

With that lack of success for that many years, I doubt that UM would get 15,000 at games. The football and athletic programs would unravel.

So UM has shitty, fair weather fans now?

Remarkable. Anything to try and support a position.

If UM goes FBS, the current fans stay, and we attract fans who otherwise don't care about FCS football (and there are many more of those in MT than you think).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, UM has many "soft" fans. They were attracted to the program by the great success of the team in the past two decades. They go to the games because the games, game day atmosphere and tailgating are so much fun. This is highly dependent on winning most games and going to the playoffs. I've heard people in the athletic department say that they believe there are about 10,000 soft fans.

There are not alot of fans in Montana who don't care about FCS football but would care about FBS football. Some, but not many. I live and grew up in MT. I have lived in 4 areas of the state over the years. UM would have to be immediately success in FBS to hold and build its fan base, in my view.

Everett, it is your agenda that causes you not to be objective.

 

['68griz]

If UM goes FBS, the current fans stay, and we attract fans who otherwise don't care about FCS football (and there are many more of those in MT than you think).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Everett, I'm not sure that would be the case. Oh, I would be here, no matter what, as I have been for the last 50+ years, but there are a good many fans who became fans only after the Griz started winning in the mid-90s. They know nothing, or little, anyway, of the pre-Read Griz, and I'm not at all sure they would hang around for more than a losing year or two. That's just my opinion, based mostly on what I've heard the people who sit around us say. Actually, I'm really anxious for this-coming season to arrive, to see if the several individuals who've sat near us for 10-15 years actually did as they said they were going to do (as a result of last season's showing), and did not renew their season tickets for 2013.

 

[kemajic]

If UM goes FBS, the current fans stay, and we attract fans who otherwise don't care about FCS football (and there are many more of those in MT than you think).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Everett, I'm not sure that would be the case. Oh, I would be here, no matter what, as I have been for the last 50+ years, but there are a good many fans who became fans only after the Griz started winning in the mid-90s. They know nothing, or little, anyway, of the pre-Read Griz, and I'm not at all sure they would hang around for more than a losing year or two. That's just my opinion, based mostly on what I've heard the people who sit around us say. Actually, I'm really anxious for this-coming season to arrive, to see if the several individuals who've sat near us for 10-15 years actually did as they said they were going to do (as a result of last season's showing), and did not renew their season tickets for 2013.

The cases of not renewing season tickets that I am aware of had nothing to do with the performance of the team last year, but rather with their total lack of respect for UM admin. One couple dropped them because they were tired of paying top dollar for a season that contains less than top dollar competition. Pan Handle St. was the tipping point. Not worth driving several hundred miles each way for PR's gameday atmosphere for an unrespected opponent.

Most fans I know and associate with want to see good competitive teams come into Wash/Griz and love to see the Griz challenged, not knowing whether they will win or not, but knowing it will be an achievement if they do. Then there is something to really cellebrate when they win, especially if they were underdogs. That was the energy around the last ASU playoff game and will be again this fall. Last year aside, that has been rare in Missoula. Fans in this area have more energy around next year's Wyoming game than anything this year in Missoula. When they win, it will be right up there with the JMU win on the road in spite of no playoff ramifications.

 

['68griz]

Kem, you may be right. I'm not going to argue with you. I can only quote the fellow who sits in front of us who said, "Well, I'm not going to pay to watch a team that doesn't win."

 

[Darksim]

Yes, UM has many "soft" fans. They were attracted to the program by the great success of the team in the past two decades. They go to the games because the games, game day atmosphere and tailgating are so much fun. This is highly dependent on winning most games and going to the playoffs. I've heard people in the athletic department say that they believe there are about 10,000 soft fans.

There are not alot of fans in Montana who don't care about FCS football but would care about FBS football. Some, but not many. I live and grew up in MT. I have lived in 4 areas of the state over the years. UM would have to be immediately success in FBS to hold and build its fan base, in my view.

Everett, it is your agenda that causes you not to be objective.

I think you are 100% correct in your assumptions

 

[Hammer]

True fans will be at the games no matter the opponent, no matter the won-loss record ect..

I have ZERO time for the bandwagon fairweather fans who are on board as long as the team wins. if they give up their season tickets because the team loses a few games or they don't like the schedule then good riddance they weren't true fans to start with!! Much of the fanbase is a bunch of spoiled rotten crybabys who as 68 said didn't even know the Griz existed Pre Don Read!!!

 

[kemajic]

One of the things you can bet on is that if there are "soft" fans, they are mostly from Missoula or close by, where it is so easy to get to games. Fans who drive hundreds of miles to games are not "soft" fans.

 

[Bluenoser]

So UM has shitty, fair weather fans now?

Remarkable. Anything to try and support a position.

That is exactly the way being a sports fan works. One just has to look down I-5 from you for an example. The UW Huskies have a fan base that is far more entrenched with a much more proud tradition than the Griz and look at what happened to them once the losing started.

Since 1990 there have been 126 home games at Husky Stadium. With a seating capacity of 74,000, there have been 38 games with less than 70,000 attendance, and 88 with greater than 70K attendance. There have been 9 games with less than 60,000 in attendance.

The losing started in 2004. Of the 38 games with less than 70K, 33 of those games came in 2004 or later. All 9 of the games with less than 60K came after the losing started. The 27 lowest attended games in Husky Stadium since 1990 all came in 2004 or later.

Those sub-70K games included:

#16 California
#3 USC
#19 California
#5 California
#1 USC
#15 BYU
#7 Oregon
#3 Oklahoma
#11 Oregon
#1 USC
#11 Louisiana State

If UM goes FBS, the current fans stay, and we attract fans who otherwise don't care about FCS football (and there are many more of those in MT than you think).

I think there are seven. Seven people in the entire state of Montana who are college football fans that don't care about FBS. The Griz already statistically draw about 1 out of every 5 fans in all of Missoula County. The Huskies draw about 1 out of every 50 people in the Puget Sound Metro area. There is far more margin for error at UW with more tradition and they have suffered greatly. It can and will happen in Missoula if/when the consistent losing starts. Look at Griz basketball on how to alienate a once rabid fan base.

There seems to be a lot of talk about how Griz athletics will make more money by moving up and getting a slice of a bigger pie consisting of splitting TV and bowl game revenue. That may (or may not) be true. What will be true is that the muppers will soon discover that there will in fact be more people willing to watch the Griz beat EWU than there will be fans willing to go watch them get blown out by Colorado State.

Once that happens and home attendance is now half of what it used to be, the athletic department may (or may not) have more $$ in the coffers. But the bars & restaurants that currently make a killing after Griz games that have to close the doors will be a multi-million $ hit to the local Missoula economy. The good news will be that it will take about 30 seconds to get a beer at the Press Box.