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Walter Payton Award Watch List & JJ

jodcon said:
Honestly, if we can rush for 250+ every game and his PE remains high we are going to win a lot more games than when he is forced to throw for 300+.

Just saying.
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This. Having players recognized nationally is nice, but at the end of the day it's great teams that win championships, not individuals. And, let's face it, this isn't the Heisman. It's not like anyone outside the FCS community is paying any attention to it.
 
Htowngriz said:
jodcon said:
Honestly, if we can rush for 250+ every game and his PE remains high we are going to win a lot more games than when he is forced to throw for 300+.

Just saying.
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This. Having players recognized nationally is nice, but at the end of the day it's great teams that win championships, not individuals. And, let's face it, this isn't the Heisman. It's not like anyone outside the FCS community is paying any attention to it.
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I'll take championships over awards for the program for sure. I bet JJ would take a championship in exchange for the Walter Payton, but for us fans it is fun to discuss. Thanks everyone for thoughts and keeping the thread on track.
 
HookedonGriz said:
Speaking of JJ and Denarius.....

A bud, and huge Bobcat fan, of mine asked me if I would trade JJ for DM. I tried to keep my Griz bias out of it and answered him honestly "no".

He proceeded to tell me I'm brainwashed and an idiot. He also said every single FCS coach would take DM over JJ. I admitted to him that both DM and JJ are incredible players and are extremely valuable to their teams. I then challenged him a bit and said here are just a couple reasons why:

- in their only head to head meeting, JJ beat DM
- JJ has led his team to the FCS semi-finals, a feat DM has not yet completed
- JJs stats and ability to win games is on the same level as DMs and better if you take into account my previous points

He continued to be berate me and tell me I'm a brain washed jack ass. In my opinion, there is no way a Bobcat fan can make their choice without bias and same with a Griz fan. 99.9 percent of Cat fans will choose DM on principle while 99.9 percent of Griz fans will take JJ. I really was trying to take bias out of it and go with my reasons above which I think are legit.

What say you? Am I a brain washed idiot? If you're a Griz fan I'm guessing "no I'm not". If you're a Cat fan I'm guessing "yes I am".
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This reminds a bit of a sports talk show I heard on the radio before the NFL season began. Can't remember who it was that made the statement, but in general the question was if you could have Payton or Eli, which qb would you want on your team. The guest stated it was easily Eli, and then talked up the great numbers that Payton has had. However the numbers that he most liked were the fact that Eli plays better in big games, and gets the job done when needed whereas Payton has typically bad games in the post season. The host couldnt believe that he wouldn't take Payton, but the guest insisted Eli was the one he wanted for his team.
 
Jj is a really great qb, however ill take the guy with 2 bsc mvp's and 3 bsc championship rings.
 
ordigger said:
HookedonGriz said:
Speaking of JJ and Denarius.....

A bud, and huge Bobcat fan, of mine asked me if I would trade JJ for DM. I tried to keep my Griz bias out of it and answered him honestly "no".

He proceeded to tell me I'm brainwashed and an idiot. He also said every single FCS coach would take DM over JJ. I admitted to him that both DM and JJ are incredible players and are extremely valuable to their teams. I then challenged him a bit and said here are just a couple reasons why:

- in their only head to head meeting, JJ beat DM
- JJ has led his team to the FCS semi-finals, a feat DM has not yet completed
- JJs stats and ability to win games is on the same level as DMs and better if you take into account my previous points

He continued to be berate me and tell me I'm a brain washed jack ass. In my opinion, there is no way a Bobcat fan can make their choice without bias and same with a Griz fan. 99.9 percent of Cat fans will choose DM on principle while 99.9 percent of Griz fans will take JJ. I really was trying to take bias out of it and go with my reasons above which I think are legit.

What say you? Am I a brain washed idiot? If you're a Griz fan I'm guessing "no I'm not". If you're a Cat fan I'm guessing "yes I am".
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This reminds a bit of a sports talk show I heard on the radio before the NFL season began. Can't remember who it was that made the statement, but in general the question was if you could have Payton or Eli, which qb would you want on your team. The guest stated it was easily Eli, and then talked up the great numbers that Payton has had. However the numbers that he most liked were the fact that Eli plays better in big games, and gets the job done when needed whereas Payton has typically bad games in the post season. The host couldnt believe that he wouldn't take Payton, but the guest insisted Eli was the one he wanted for his team.
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That sounds familiar, I think it might have been Cowherd?
 
Not taking anything away from DM, cause I think I've made it perfectly clear what I think of him. He's a GREAT QB. But if championship rings is what it's all about, then what Griz QB isn't great???? LOL. Hell, Josh Swogger has one of those. :)
 
wbtfg said:
Jj is a really great qb, however ill take the guy with 2 bsc mvp's and 3 bsc championship rings.
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And who will most likely finish his career with ZERO semifinal appearances. But hey, I guess Big Sky championships are good enough when you follow the cats. :thumb:
 
Htowngriz said:
wbtfg said:
Jj is a really great qb, however ill take the guy with 2 bsc mvp's and 3 bsc championship rings.
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And who will most likely finish his career with ZERO semifinal appearances. But hey, I guess Big Sky championships are good enough when you follow the cats. :thumb:
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Exactly!!!! :clap: :clap: :clap:
 
I thought championships were al that mattered? :?

now teams brag about semi-final appearances. appearances in which they lost? I have so much to learn.

don't get me wrong. I think semi-final appearances are a hell of an accomplishment. but I've been told for years and years that championships are the name of the game and everything else is a failure. I think I even remember a day where conference titles and playoff appearances were something celebrated here.

I must be mistaken. :o
 
ilovethecats said:
I thought championships were al that mattered? :?

now teams brag about semi-final appearances. appearances in which they lost? I have so much to learn.

don't get me wrong. I think semi-final appearances are a hell of an accomplishment. but I've been told for years and years that championships are the name of the game and everything else is a failure. I think I even remember a day where conference titles and playoff appearances were something celebrated here.

I must be mistaken. :o
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NATIONAL championships, my friend. The Griz win conference championships like it's a bodily function.
 
ILTC, I've also seen about 1,000 posts on BN making fun of Griz fans for being proud of so many Big Sky titles, when a lot of them were shared. It's funny when the shoe is on the other foot. MSU fans are VERY PROUD of the last three years, and rightfully so. Yet, none of the Cat posters I see, here, or on BN, EVER bring up that those titles were shared with other teams.
 
grizcountry420 said:
marceagfan5 said:
Maybe if you guys kept games closer JJ would have to throw more in the 2nd half and his stats would be more impressive....
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This guy gets it! Can't wait for the 26th..
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exactly! you can tell he has played the game :D
 
havgrizfan said:
ILTC, I've also seen about 1,000 posts on BN making fun of Griz fans for being proud of so many Big Sky titles, when a lot of them were shared. It's funny when the shoe is on the other foot. MSU fans are VERY PROUD of the last three years, and rightfully so. Yet, none of the Cat posters I see, here, or on BN, EVER bring up that those titles were shared with other teams.
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don't disagree. there are a lot of idiots out there. agree completely about the shoe being on the other foot. when you guys were making the playoffs like it was your job and even losing in them before the semi-finals playoffs were all that mattered. big streak of playoffs. conference championships. yada yada yada.

but lately it seems different. streak of playoffs ended. missed two of last 3 seasons. conference champs streak ended. meanwhile the cats were doing those things. but in between missing the playoffs a very good griz team made the semi-finals so suddenly that is the new barometer. not playoffs. not conference championships. not national championships.

so I think we agree it's pretty comical to see poster on both sides of the coin. especially when the shoe is on the other foot.
 
All of those things are important. Anyone who suggests they aren't are lying.

I would guess -- I'm not sure I share the opinion -- is that many are saying a glaring weakness of DM is the ability to go deep in the playoffs, or even beat really good teams. It's not inaccurate to say that, however.

That said, I'd happily take em both on my team.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
EverettGriz said:
All of those things are important. Anyone who suggests they aren't are lying.

I would guess -- I'm not sure I share the opinion -- is that many are saying a glaring weakness of DM is the ability to go deep in the playoffs, or even beat really good teams. It's not inaccurate to say that, however.

That said, I'd happily take em both on my team.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I agree. that will always be the knock on him, ash, and our entire team until we do so. and while I am just as annoyed as any cat fan over the lack of a deep run these last few years I also keep it in perspective. I simply think ndsu, shsu, and shsu again were just the better team. sure, we shouldn't have gotten just smashed at home last year or against the griz in '11 for that matter. but I think the griz were a better team that year too and they went on to prove that by making the semi-finals.

I just always get a kick listening to fanbases twisting and turning whatever they can to prove whatever point it is they're trying to make. this thread just reminded me of that.

and like you, I would take either of these two in a half of a second 10 out of 10 times.
 
I've never changed what my personal priorities are for each season and I've been there pretty much through the start of what I consider the modern era of Griz football, which is 1991-to present day.

My list is
1. Win the Big Sky which means a playoff berth so to me they're one in the same with getting home playoff games at the top of that list.
2. Beat the Cats
3. Go as deep as possible in the playoffs and hope for a national title.

I have NEVER considered it realistic that the Griz would or should contend for a national championship every year. And I don't believe that means I settle for less. I HOPE for a national title contending team with the dawn of every season, but it never took me long to figure out which of those Griz teams could and couldn't contend each season. I've been surprised along the way (The 2008 team) and let down too (The 98 team and the 2000 team) I thought were teams that had a great shot. So I guess, winning the Big Sky and getting more great playoff memories in Wash-Griz is what it's mostly about. If a national title year comes along, then it's a major cherry on top! But as a fan, it's not the be all end all for me. I love the process, An ENTIRE SEASON, as much as I love the end results.
 
havgrizfan said:
I've never changed what my personal priorities are for each season and I've been there pretty much through the start of what I consider the modern era of Griz football, which is 1991-to present day.

My list is
1. Win the Big Sky which means a playoff berth so to me they're one in the same with getting home playoff games at the top of that list.
2. Beat the Cats
3. Go as deep as possible in the playoffs and hope for a national title.

I have NEVER considered it realistic that the Griz would or should contend for a national championship every year. And I don't believe that means I settle for less. I HOPE for a national title contending team with the dawn of every season, but it never took me long to figure out which of those Griz teams could and couldn't contend each season. I've been surprised along the way (The 2008 team) and let down too (The 98 team and the 2000 team) I thought were teams that had a great shot. So I guess, winning the Big Sky and getting more great playoff memories in Wash-Griz is what it's mostly about. If a national title year comes along, then it's a major cherry on top! But as a fan, it's not the be all end all for me. I love the process, An ENTIRE SEASON, as much as I love the end results.
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completely agree with this post. but you're gonna get blasted here for this... :lol:
 
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Honestly, anything other than a strong semi showing or a national title appearance is a disappointing season for me. Sure a BigSky title is awesome but you don't find out how badass your team is until the playoffs...

Lets just say I'm not disappointed on average more than once every other year and that's a very conservative statement based solely on the 2010 and 2012 coaching transitions...

I do feel the cats will finally make their deep run this year being its DM's last year and he definitely adds another hard to describe positive aspect to that team. They just better hope they don't draw us early. 8-)
 
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