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Utah to PAC 10

bengal said:
"BYU focuses on an undergraduate education and are quite good at that. Compared to the PAC - 10 their Graduate programs are few and far between. We are talking PHD programs here. There is no comparison."

According to US News and World Report's rankings of US graduate schools, BYU's graduate business program is 29th in the country, its law school is 41st, graduate engineering program is 92 and its graduate education program is 103. I think that would place BYU squarely in the realm of PAC 10 possibility. It's true BYU does not play on Sundays, but the conference can always schedule around that. The NCAA does.
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One more time on BYU

QUOTE"President Deiter F. Uchtdorf, university trustee, addresses graduates on April 23, 2009. The board has defined BYU as a “primarily undergraduate teaching university with some graduate programs of distinction and high quality.” Last year BYU granted 1,285 graduate and 6,892 undergraduate degrees."
UNQUOTE

BYU is not focused on Graduate studies or research while most of the PAC 10 IS. Of course they have some programs and do some research but Stanford and USC have more graduate students than they have undergraduates. It is not a fit

Source: BYU graduate program select in number
http://www.ldsphilanthropies.org/byu/news-features/presidents-report/byus-graduate.html
 
billings_poke said:
TCU has no shot at the Big East. too Remote.

I agree Big East raids CUSA. But they also added UCONN from 1AA as well. They may add APPY state. They have a lot of options that are closer than TCU. ECU and Memphis or even Southern Miss would go first. They may also lose Pitt to BIG 10 like some say they will and not missouri. Navy may also get a look.

I just don't see your scenario as a possibility. Nobody wants to join CUSA, especially without Memphis and ECU, except LA tech which would cost the WAC another member. Tension could be high as about 3 Western schools could be left with no conference.

Do the math

If the MWC loses 2 and then adds 5 to expand to 12 then they merge with 5 of the WAC members. That leaves 3 WAC members looking for a home. (assuming LA Tech goes to CUSA).

One western FBS conference could very well cease to exist as the MWC and WAC merges.
Biggest risk is Hawaii, New Mexico State, and Idaho to lose out.
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With Texas talking with the Big 10, practically anything is possible.

With some of the conference changes lining up, it almost makes Montana's move to FBS inevitable.

Utah and Colorado to Pac10
Missouri, Texas, Syracuse to Big 10
BYU, TCU, Colorado St to Big 12
Boise St, Nevada, Fresno St, Hawaii to MWC

The WAC is left with: San Jose St, Idaho, N Mex St, Utah St

At a minimum, Montana, UCDavis, CalPoly, and Sac St join the WAC.

Montana would be a first-tier power in a new WAC. If Montana had joined a WAC with Boise St, Fresno, Hawaii, the Griz would have been in a second tier, making a move too risky.
 
It would be weird to see the Big 12 implode LOL

Hawaii is just too expensive to go to though. I expect them to be on the outside looking in
 
billings_poke said:
It would be weird to see the Big 12 implode LOL

Hawaii is just too expensive to go to though. I expect them to be on the outside looking in
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If the Big 12 reorganizes, you can expect BYU, TCU, and Boise to go there. CU and Utah look to be going to the Pac-10. That, technically would leave Wyo on the outside looking in, because let's face it, they don't really bring much to the table.

The scraps of the WAC and MWC would be left to form a pretty crappy new conference with the Griz of course. Then the Cowboys can get their asses kicked in Wash/Griz every other year and the Billings Griz fans can shoot down to Laramie and watch the Griz put a beat down on the Pokes on the off years.

Man, that Mountain West thing you guys had going didn't last too long, did it?
 
UNDfan said:
billings_poke said:
TCU has no shot at the Big East. too Remote.

I agree Big East raids CUSA. But they also added UCONN from 1AA as well. They may add APPY state. They have a lot of options that are closer than TCU. ECU and Memphis or even Southern Miss would go first. They may also lose Pitt to BIG 10 like some say they will and not missouri. Navy may also get a look.

I just don't see your scenario as a possibility. Nobody wants to join CUSA, especially without Memphis and ECU, except LA tech which would cost the WAC another member. Tension could be high as about 3 Western schools could be left with no conference.

Do the math

If the MWC loses 2 and then adds 5 to expand to 12 then they merge with 5 of the WAC members. That leaves 3 WAC members looking for a home. (assuming LA Tech goes to CUSA).

One western FBS conference could very well cease to exist as the MWC and WAC merges.
Biggest risk is Hawaii, New Mexico State, and Idaho to lose out.
Click to expand...

With Texas talking with the Big 10, practically anything is possible.

With some of the conference changes lining up, it almost makes Montana's move to FBS inevitable.

Utah and Colorado to Pac10
Missouri, Texas, Syracuse to Big 10
BYU, TCU, Colorado St to Big 12
Boise St, Nevada, Fresno St, Hawaii to MWC

The WAC is left with: San Jose St, Idaho, N Mex St, Utah St

At a minimum, Montana, UCDavis, CalPoly, and Sac St join the WAC.

Montana would be a first-tier power in a new WAC. If Montana had joined a WAC with Boise St, Fresno, Hawaii, the Griz would have been in a second tier, making a move too risky.
Click to expand...


UNDfan...with your scenario, you have the Big 10 expanding to 14 teams. That is not going to happen. I think the Big East will take a FCS team...Villanova. They are already Big East in every other sport. Here is how I see things shaking out. This scenario eliminates the Sun Belt, has 10 12-team conferences, with Notre Dame, Army, and Navy remaining independent.

- Pitt goes to the Big 10...logical fit geographically, academically, and athletically.

- PAC-10 forced to expand takes Utah and Colorado...SLC and Denver TV markets.

- The Big 12 gets Arkansas...renews old SWC rivals, better chance to win in the Big 12

- SEC takes Louisville...solid basketball, middle of the road SEC football, solid baseball, competitive in many sports, rivals with Kentucky, fit geographically.

- Big East would be down to 6 adds 'Nova, ECU, UCF, Memphis, Temple, and if ND says no (which is likely), they go with Marshall. (For Bball: Temple stays A-10, ECU & Marshall move to A-10 to keep Big East at 16 teams with the addition of Memphis and UCF who has spent at ton upgrading facilities)

- MWC (down to 8 with loss of Utah) adds Boise St and Fresno St from the WAC as well as 2 from CUSA (Houston, Tulsa, and/or SMU)...for the example below I'll use Tulsa and SMU.

- WAC (down to 5) goes after UL-Monroe, North Texas, Arkansas St and UL-Lafayette from the Sun Belt (WAC already has LA Tech), they also take 1 team from the Big Sky: Montana

- C-USA (down 6: 4 to the Big East, 2 to the MWC) takes Troy, WKU, MTSU, FAU, FIU from the Sun Belt, as well as Appy St from 1-AA.

- ACC would not have any membership changes as it just had a drastic expansion, but I think it realigns.

- MAC remains the same, with the exception of losing Temple

Here is what the conferences would then look like:

ACC:
FSU, Miami, GT, Clemson, Wake Forest, Duke
BC, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Maryland, North Carolina, NCSU

Big Ten:
Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Illinois, Northwestern, Purdue
Pitt, Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan State, Michigan, Indiana

Big East:
Rutgers, UConn, Syracuse, Temple, Villanova, West Virginia
UCF, Memphis, USF, Cincinnati, ECU, Marshall

PAC 10:
Utah, Colorado, Arizona, Arizona St, UCLA, USC
Washington, Washington St, Oregon, Oregon St, Stanford, Cal

Big 12:
Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St
Arkansas, Missouri, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Nebraska

SEC:
Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Georgia, florida
Louisville, LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Alabama, Auburn

MWC:
Boise State, Fresno State, BYU, UNLV, San Diego State, Wyoming
Tulsa, SMU, TCU, New Mexico, Air Force, Colorado State

WAC:
Louisiana Tech, UL-Monroe, UL-Lafayette, Arkansas State, North Texas, New Mexico State
Nevada, Idaho, Hawaii, Utah State, San Jose State, Montana

Conference USA:
Troy, MTSU, FAU, FIU, UAB, Appy State
UTEP, Houston, Rice, Tulane, Southern Miss, W. Kentucky

MAC:
W. Michigan, C. Michigan, E. Michigan, N. Illinois, Toledo, Ball State
Ohio, Buffalo, Kent State, Bowling Green, Akron, Miami (OH)
 
djollieballs said:
LakGriz said:
Hell will freeze over before the Pac 10 includes UNLV.
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David2 said:
Why?
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It's a commuter school. That's just reason reason one. Can you think of any other commuter schools in the Pac-10?
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That's the stupidest reason I've seen on any board re: this topic. I don't know of any requirement by any athletic conference that a school must NOT be a commuter school. Where would the PAC10 schools be w/o their commuter students? Besides, the Mountain West had no problem admitting UNLV. Anything else, all-knowing one? :roll:
 
UNLV is not what we'd call.. academically respectable compared to Pac 10 schools. Arizona St, Arizona, Cal, Stanford, USC, UCLA are DEFINITELY not commuter schools. Different academic standards in the MWC than in the Pac 10.
 
Noles & Griz said:
UNDfan...with your scenario, you have the Big 10 expanding to 14 teams. That is not going to happen. I think the Big East will take a FCS team...Villanova. They are already Big East in every other sport. Here is how I see things shaking out. This scenario eliminates the Sun Belt, has 10 12-team conferences, with Notre Dame, Army, and Navy remaining independent.

- Pitt goes to the Big 10...logical fit geographically, academically, and athletically.

- PAC-10 forced to expand takes Utah and Colorado...SLC and Denver TV markets.

- The Big 12 gets Arkansas...renews old SWC rivals, better chance to win in the Big 12

- SEC takes Louisville...solid basketball, middle of the road SEC football, solid baseball, competitive in many sports, rivals with Kentucky, fit geographically.

- Big East would be down to 6 adds 'Nova, ECU, UCF, Memphis, Temple, and if ND says no (which is likely), they go with Marshall. (For Bball: Temple stays A-10, ECU & Marshall move to A-10 to keep Big East at 16 teams with the addition of Memphis and UCF who has spent at ton upgrading facilities)

- MWC (down to 8 with loss of Utah) adds Boise St and Fresno St from the WAC as well as 2 from CUSA (Houston, Tulsa, and/or SMU)...for the example below I'll use Tulsa and SMU.

- WAC (down to 5) goes after UL-Monroe, North Texas, Arkansas St and UL-Lafayette from the Sun Belt (WAC already has LA Tech), they also take 1 team from the Big Sky: Montana

- C-USA (down 6: 4 to the Big East, 2 to the MWC) takes Troy, WKU, MTSU, FAU, FIU from the Sun Belt, as well as Appy St from 1-AA.

- ACC would not have any membership changes as it just had a drastic expansion, but I think it realigns.

- MAC remains the same, with the exception of losing Temple

Here is what the conferences would then look like:

ACC:
FSU, Miami, GT, Clemson, Wake Forest, Duke
BC, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Maryland, North Carolina, NCSU

Big Ten:
Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Illinois, Northwestern, Purdue
Pitt, Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan State, Michigan, Indiana

Big East:
Rutgers, UConn, Syracuse, Temple, Villanova, West Virginia
UCF, Memphis, USF, Cincinnati, ECU, Marshall

PAC 10:
Utah, Colorado, Arizona, Arizona St, UCLA, USC
Washington, Washington St, Oregon, Oregon St, Stanford, Cal

Big 12:
Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St
Arkansas, Missouri, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Nebraska

SEC:
Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Georgia, florida
Louisville, LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Alabama, Auburn

MWC:
Boise State, Fresno State, BYU, UNLV, San Diego State, Wyoming
Tulsa, SMU, TCU, New Mexico, Air Force, Colorado State

WAC:
Louisiana Tech, UL-Monroe, UL-Lafayette, Arkansas State, North Texas, New Mexico State
Nevada, Idaho, Hawaii, Utah State, San Jose State, Montana

Conference USA:
Troy, MTSU, FAU, FIU, UAB, Appy State
UTEP, Houston, Rice, Tulane, Southern Miss, W. Kentucky

MAC:
W. Michigan, C. Michigan, E. Michigan, N. Illinois, Toledo, Ball State
Ohio, Buffalo, Kent State, Bowling Green, Akron, Miami (OH)
Click to expand...

That WAC conference really doesn't make any sense. LA Tech is going to be the first school out in an expansion because they are already a terrible regional fit. Also, TCU and Boise would go the the Big 12 way before the Razorbacks would, why would they ever leave the SEC?

And the Big Ten is expanding to go after another major, major market. Like at least Missouri with KC and St. Louis or the New York market with 'Cuse or national reach long shots like Texas or Notre D. Twenty years ago who would have thought they would land Penn State? Pitt and Cincy are crumbs compared to who they are capable of getting.

I think that the Cali Schools like SJSU, Fresno, Sac, Poly, and Davis are up Shit Creek as far as athletic funding goes and I think they are much more likely to form a bus league conference than start moving around to a bunch of crazy far flung conferences. Anyone who has lived in California recently can tell you that things are already much worse than they are portrayed in the news. There isn't money for ANYTHING, definitely not money for athletics. Not that I think they will form a bus conference, but it's more likely than SJSU traveling to Louisiana three times a year for every sport.

Anyway you look at it, UM's motivation for moving up just went majorly limp. We'll be D-2 in five years unless we get an AD who doesn't have their thumb in their butt within the next six months that is capable of being proactive about the realignment situation. Our current guy has no freaking clue. We should have had a move up study done ten years ago and now that idiot is on the outside looking in wondering what the hell just happened.
 
David2 said:
That's the stupidest reason I've seen on any board re: this topic. I don't know of any requirement by any athletic conference that a school must NOT be a commuter school. Where would the PAC10 schools be w/o their commuter students? Besides, the Mountain West had no problem admitting UNLV. Anything else, all-knowing one? :roll:
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Settle down, Sugar Tits.

UNLV and SDSU stick out like sore thumbs in the MWC as commuter schools already.

The only outlier in the Pac-10 is ASU, but they get a pass because of the MASSIVE Phoenix market.
 
MrTitleist said:
UNLV is not what we'd call.. academically respectable compared to Pac 10 schools. Arizona St, Arizona, Cal, Stanford, USC, UCLA are DEFINITELY not commuter schools. Different academic standards in the MWC than in the Pac 10.
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Thats pretty much it, D2. Does this still confuse you?
 
MrTitleist said:
UNLV is not what we'd call.. academically respectable compared to Pac 10 schools.
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How do you know that? Please explain; otherwise, you're unfairly biased & opinionated.

MrTitleist said:
Arizona St, Arizona, Cal, Stanford, USC, UCLA are DEFINITELY not commuter schools.
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Maybe so, but I'll bet that if commuter students at those schools stopped coming, those schools would be in more financial doo-doo than they are now. You can't tell me that those schools, being in the big population centers they are, don't have as many if not more commuter students than UNLV does. What's so important about where a student resides?

Titleist said:
Different academic standards in the MWC than in the Pac 10.
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So, why is Utah considered a shoo-in to the PAC 10 if it's a MWC school? Same with BYU. No, I think the chief impediment for UNLV is their win/loss record in the MWC. Once that improves, the PAC 10 may not be far behind & Bobby Hauck will get them there. :shock: :thumb:
 
Utah is a commuter school: "A commuter school is a university where a large majority of students live off campus and commute to school (car, bus, bike, walk, etc.). A lot of major universities (like the University of Utah) are commuter schools...."

See: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080625142938AAO5nQj

If you disagree with this, then tell me why Utah is NOT a commuter school. This commuter school aspect is irrelevant, far as I'm concerned, about schools changing conferences.
 
MrTitleist said:
UNLV is not what we'd call.. academically respectable compared to Pac 10 schools. Arizona St, Arizona, Cal, Stanford, USC, UCLA are DEFINITELY not commuter schools. Different academic standards in the MWC than in the Pac 10.
Click to expand...
ASU is most certainly a commuter school; a very small percentage of undergraduate students live on campus, rather commute from the very large Phoenix area. There are far more parking lots and garages than dorms.
 
David,

A commuter school is a school where MOST of the students come from the surrounding area of the College and NEVER live on campus. Most of the students either live with their parents or they they are non-traditional college age students. It's a school that is filled with people who "never went away to college". These people tend to treat College like a job, hence the term "COMMUTER SCHOOL". It has nothing to do with people who drive to school from their off campus apartment. I knew a kid from KC who drove to campus every day and he only lived 3 blocks from the Business Building. He was NOT a commuter student.

In other words, it's a school with a lot of people that never got a full college experience. Commuter schools have extremely low rates of giving by alumni because most of the students never really felt much of a connection to the school because the only time they spent on campus was class time as opposed to people who actually lived there.

That is the definition that every single person without their tongue up their bum considers correct. Do you get it now, ya freakin tosspot?

Like I said earlier, ASU is sort of an outlier in the PAC-10 as a commuter school because it has the lowest admissions standards of the PAC-10 and is also located in a major metro area. This leads to many of the students coming from the surrounding area who live with their parents throughout their college careers. But unlike traditional commuter schools like Sac State, PSU, and UNLV, ASU has no problem attracting a very large portion of their student body from all over the country who will end up fully integrating themselves into campus life.
 
Do the regents have any say if you want to move up? With the state budget wowes would the political powers even allow a move at this time? I realize there would be extra money coming in from Bowl game payouts to conferences and t.V. contracts, but will that be enough to subsidize the extra money needed for more scholarships for football and other sports that will be needed to make sure your in title IX compliance? Plus the extra money needed for more coaches, uniforms, marketing and insurance? Won't football and basketball coaches comand larger salaries if there is a move to FBS? Isn't there a "fee" to join the WAC or MWC if invited?

If your able to do it with out hurting the other state institutions and not putting any more undo presure on Montana tax payers, I say go for it.
 
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