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UM/Santa Clara Thread

Grizbacker1 said:
I know there are some people that thought the Griz would be 8-3 or better right now. Frankly, they should have at least 2 more wins under their belt, but they don't. I honestly would rather be 5-6, and playing a tough OOC schedule than beating up on Frontier Conference teams or the likes of Haskell Indian nation that NAU played tonight. I saw one poster mention Mike Montgomery was the halftime guest. Keep in mind, despite all those 20 win seasons Monty had at UM, he NEVER won the BSC. In my opinion it was partly due to playing the Simon Frasers, etc in the OOC Schedule.

Not trying to start shit or anything, just looking for an honest assessment. But isnt what you said above the exact opposite philosophy the football program uses when scheduling? Pad the record and stats with cupcakes and we will be fine in the end?

I realize scheduling football is different than scheduling hoops, but wouldnt playing tougher OOC teams do the same for the football team (if not more) as it does for hoops? Or is it simply the fact that O'Day has to "feed the monster" with home games regardless of who is scheduled to come to Missoula.

Just wondering, and looking for an honest opinion...
 
It appears Wayne Tinkle was quite dissappointed in the lack of energy to start the game. Kind of what happened against Portland. But, Wayne did have some good things to say.

But, Santa Clara has had big runs prior to this game, and an 11 - 0 run in first half was the difference in the game.



Broncos upend Grizzlies
By the Missoulian



SANTA CLARA, Calif. - The Montana men's basketball team and Santa Clara, the Grizzlies' opponent Monday night, each entered coming off of narrow losses. Other than the fact the Broncos have faced several Big Sky Conference teams, the similarities ended there.

Santa Clara made an 11-0 run midway through the first half and Montana couldn't dig out of that hole, falling 60-49 to the Broncos at the Leavey Center.

The Grizzlies dropped their fourth straight and slipped to 5-6. They dipped below .500 for the first time this season following the middle contest of a three-game California road swing. Montana completes the trip with a Thursday evening game at Cal State Fullerton.


Broncos junior center John Bryant owned the paint as Santa Clara improved to 7-3 after just its third home game of the season. Bryant scored a team-high 14 points and capped his double-double with 12 rebounds. Santa Clara won the rebounding battle 36-26 and had a 22-10 advantage on the glass while taking a 13-point lead into halftime.

The Grizzlies fought back in the second half. After a 6-0 Santa Clara push that gave the Broncos a 42-25 lead early in the second period, UM trimmed its deficit to eight twice in the final four minutes.

But the Grizzlies could get no closer and Montana head coach Wayne Tinkle couldn't hide his displeasure with how his squad played the opening 20 minutes.

“We can't come out of the gate without energy,” Tinkle told 1290 KVGO radio in a postgame interview. “And as good and as hard as we played the other night (a 76-71 overtime loss at Pacific) I'm really really disappointed with our effort to start the ballgame.”

Senior point guard Brody Angley and freshman forward Ben Dowdell dropped in 10 points apiece for Santa Clara, which limited the Grizzlies in the first half to 7-of-24 shooting from the floor, including a 1-for-7 effort from 3-point range.

Senior forward Andrew Strait led the UM offense with a game-high 15 points on 7-for-12 shooting from the floor and playing all but three minutes of the contest. Sophomore guard Cameron Rundles added 10 points and Ryan Staudacher was 3-of-6 from beyond the arc to finish with nine. Jordan Hasquet, still suffering the effects of a sore ankle suffered in the loss Saturday night, collected a team-best seven rebounds.

“Our guys did a good job of hanging in there,” Tinkle said. “We found a combination of guys that were laying it all on the line and did a great job of getting that thing back to a decent game.”

Montana junior forward Kyle Sharp nailed a 3-pointer with just under 15 minutes left that seemed to jolt the Grizzlies out of their slumber. By the halfway point of the second half, Staudacher had pulled the Grizzlies to within 43-33 with a trey.

But after Hasquet nailed an off-balance jumper with 1:56 left that got UM back to 57-49, the Grizzlies failed to score on their final five possessions, sealing the win for the Broncos.

“We'll go back to the drawing board, find the right buttons and keep pushing them,” Tinkle said. “I reminded them that last year we were 6-7 after the preseason and we came one game away from hosting the Big Sky tournament. Everything is still in front of us and we're going to go and try to get better before Thursday night.”
 
weird game, starting with the un-college like atmosphere--no students, no cheerleaders or pep band, canned national anthem, but most of all, very little crowd support for santa clara. last year, dick davey, the popular long-term coach there, was forced to resign by an administration that wanted a younger coach who could build the program in the likeness of gonzaga, and obviously, a lot of alums are showing their displeasure by staying away in droves. in fact, the largest bloc of fans there was a group that came over from nearby hollister to root for hometown hero kyle sharp, giving us a distinct rooting edge.

woody allen once said of san francisco after shooting "play it again, sam": "first you mellow, and then you rot." after two days in the bay area, our kids must have begun the process, because they absolutely stunk up the joint. they were out-hustled, out-quicked, out-shot and most of all, out-bigged by a 6'10", 310 pound freak of nature, john bryant. i've seen him play summers in the local pro-am leauge, and several times on tv against gonzaga and st. mary's, and after all that experience, the kid definitely has game. he just pushed qvale around at will. with hasquet still struggling on a bum ankle, the "big" advantage we've been touting here absolutely fell away, and a quicker, better-shooting santa clara quickly took us out of the game. we rallied toward the end, and had we made the front end of some one-and-ones, and shot it better from outside, we might have made a miraculous comeback. but mr. bryant was right there for an alley-oop dunk at a key moment late, and that was the game.

i agree with gb1 at this point, the glass is either half empty or half full, and i'm still on the side of half full. there's definitely talent there, especially with our bigs, but also with staudacher, who seemed to be looking for and getting his shot more this game, and elgin-taylor, who is a tenacious defender even if he has yet to demonstrate much offensive game. zach graves played well off the bench, and kyle sharp, who played much of this game, is emerging as a real force, especially on the boards. we definitely have talent.

at the same time, there are some things that seem to be missing, such as:
-- a reliable point guard that can organize, penetrate and dish;
--consistent free-throw shooting, as we missed several front-ends last night, costing us a lot of points;
--more athleticism on the perimiter.
--finally, an ineffable "something" that i just can't put my finger on. this team is just not crisp, makes careless blunders at key moments, misses critical free throws and three-pointers, fails to find the right player at the right moment (rundles missed a pass late game to a wide-open staudacher at just the moment we most critically needed a three), and at least last night, didn't seem to have an effective game plan. looking back, i think we might have tried to "fazekas" john bryant, because andrew strait played a good game, showing those deft inside moves for which he's known. had we got the ball to him early, we might have put bryant on the bench, because he picked up a stupid foul real early, but there seemed to be no coherent strategy to do that.
in short, this team continues to baffle me. i hope it all smooths out by conference, because the talent is there, but it could well be we'll have to wait till next year, when the "pieces" we so obviously miss--taylor, mcgillis, stockton--will be there. in any event, whichever big sky team makes it to the big dance is now looking at a 16-seed and a one-and-done, likely against u.c.l.a. i'm not quite there yet, but the chant is forming in my mind: "wait till next year!"
 
Imagine the backlash if a Bobby Hauck team began the year underachieving like this basketball team. They were out-coached and out-played by an average (at best) Santa Clara team. But the Griz we be ok----they get Montana Tech on the 30th!!!
 
GB and City, thanks for posts. Hard to disagree with anything posted. However, I am very concerned right now. I am most concerned with a few things that appear to be patterns for 2 years running. (1) Lack of consistent unity, desire, heart, and hustle game in, game out for 40 minutes. (2) Players not carrying out the gameplan of the coaches. (3) Failure to establish an identity of what kind of team we are going to be. We are missing an "ATTITUDE or SWAGGER" that we had a few years back. Why can't more players put forth the effort, heart, and confidence that Hasquet and Strait have every game? Those things need to be "contagious" for every member, every practice, every minute, every second.

I honestly will be happy as hell, if I see a player get a "T" out of frustration, like Hasquet got last year. That was a turning point for him and the team shortly thereafter. I would also love to see Tinkle chew some major ass when the team is flat. We need that "EDGE" Larry brought every game that was so contagious. If not chew ass of the team, chew a stiped shirt ass just to light a fire and give this team an attitude!!!!

Finally, on the ball pressure with CET and Graves. Graves is athletic and penetrator w/out fear. Sorry, I honestly feel at this point the coaches are missing the boat on Graves. I see him as an ignitor type that helps on defensively, draws fouls, and opens up the court for his teammates. Only time will prove me right or wrong on him. Give him a few more minutes to prove himself and learn. :thumb:
 
mtgrizrule said:
GB and City, thanks for posts. Hard to disagree with anything posted. However, I am very concerned right now. I am most concerned with a few things that appear to be patterns for 2 years running. (1) Lack of consistent unity, desire, heart, and hustle game in, game out for 40 minutes. (2) Players not carrying out the gameplan of the coaches. (3) Failure to establish an identity of what kind of team we are going to be. We are missing an "ATTITUDE or SWAGGER" that we had a few years back. Why can't more players put forth the effort, heart, and confidence that Hasquet and Strait have every game? Those things need to be "contagious" for every member, every practice, every minute, every second.

I honestly will be happy as hell, if I see a player get a "T" out of frustration, like Hasquet got last year. That was a turning point for him and the team shortly thereafter. I would also love to see Tinkle chew some major ass when the team is flat. We need that "EDGE" Larry brought every game that was so contagious. If not chew ass of the team, chew a stiped shirt ass just to light a fire and give this team an attitude!!!!

Finally, on the ball pressure with CET and Graves. Graves is athletic and penetrator w/out fear. Sorry, I honestly feel at this point the coaches are missing the boat on Graves. I see him as an ignitor type that helps on defensively, draws fouls, and opens up the court for his teammates. Only time will prove me right or wrong on him. Give him a few more minutes to prove himself and learn. :thumb:

MtGrizRule,

If knowing that Tinks chewed some major ass makes you feel better, then rest assured, because I heard Tinks chewing some major ass, as you refer to it. Personally, I think that stuff only goes so far. I think at a certain point in time, the only thing that registers with some guys is playing time. It doesn't do any good to yell if they know they are still going to get the same minutes. I would tell them it is my way or they ride the pine. That is how Krysko played it, and it works.

As far as players getting a T, I am not down with that. Their job is to play. I think Tinks works the Officials, but I would not have blamed him for taking one last night. The HC is the guy who has to have his players back. There was one official in particular that was calling the majority of the bad calls, and I would not have blamed Tinks if he too one at some point, especially in the first half. There were some blatant bad calls, such as the "make up call" that went against Hasquet, and the " no call" when Cam got hit in the face.

I agree with Graves getting some more PT. Tinks needs to give him enough PT in a game situtation to see what he has. 4 minutes just isn't enough time in my opinion. Personally I would have given him a shot in the first half when the team was flat. Graves had fresh legs and the Griz needed someone to give them a little spark. :twocents:
 
Cat Pride said:
Grizbacker1 said:
I know there are some people that thought the Griz would be 8-3 or better right now. Frankly, they should have at least 2 more wins under their belt, but they don't. I honestly would rather be 5-6, and playing a tough OOC schedule than beating up on Frontier Conference teams or the likes of Haskell Indian nation that NAU played tonight. I saw one poster mention Mike Montgomery was the halftime guest. Keep in mind, despite all those 20 win seasons Monty had at UM, he NEVER won the BSC. In my opinion it was partly due to playing the Simon Frasers, etc in the OOC Schedule.

Not trying to start shit or anything, just looking for an honest assessment. But isnt what you said above the exact opposite philosophy the football program uses when scheduling? Pad the record and stats with cupcakes and we will be fine in the end?

I realize scheduling football is different than scheduling hoops, but wouldnt playing tougher OOC teams do the same for the football team (if not more) as it does for hoops? Or is it simply the fact that O'Day has to "feed the monster" with home games regardless of who is scheduled to come to Missoula.

Just wondering, and looking for an honest opinion...

CP,

I agree to a certain point, but there is a difference in scheduling because your overall record means a lot in FCS when it comes to the playoffs, while in BSC BB we all know you have to win the BSC Tourney to get the NCAA bid, so the OOC schedule simply prepares you for BSC play. I do think the Griz FB schedule this season could of and should have been stronger, and it generally is.
 
I was at the game last night and to say I am disappointed would be a bit of an understatement. While I admit that I do not keep up with griz hoops much since leaving missoula. The Griz just didn't seem to hustle and couldn't do much on the boards. I don't think the crowd helped at all either. There was very little support for SC since the school is out of session, and there were fewer griz fans this year than in the years past. Kyle Sharp did have a good contigent of hollister fans which was nice. I was hoping to see an exciting game that we were atleast competitive in, but that was not the case. It was nice to see Mike Montgomery there, he is currently assisting the Athletic Director at Stanford. As a long time Stanford fan, I think Coach Mike will return after trent johnson is fired in a season or two.
 
According to many inside sources, Tinkle might "chew ass" to much. Some teams/players respond to negative criticism, some do not. Based on results to date and the reports of Tinkle "chewing ass" on a regular basis, I would guess this team does not. :twocents:
 
drewklein1 said:
I was at the game last night and to say I am disappointed would be a bit of an understatement. While I admit that I do not keep up with griz hoops much since leaving missoula. The Griz just didn't seem to hustle and couldn't do much on the boards. I don't think the crowd helped at all either. There was very little support for SC since the school is out of session, and there were fewer griz fans this year than in the years past. Kyle Sharp did have a good contigent of hollister fans which was nice. I was hoping to see an exciting game that we were atleast competitive in, but that was not the case. It was nice to see Mike Montgomery there, he is currently assisting the Athletic Director at Stanford. As a long time Stanford fan, I think Coach Mike will return after trent johnson is fired in a season or two.

Too bad you couldn't make the UOP game. I think you would wonder if it was the same team you saw at SC, I know I did.
 
GB1 you stated what I meant much better than I did. I really do not know if ass chewings are necessary, but thing or some little things are that can make or break a team in terms of cohesiveness and playing for one another. We miss that cohesiveness and true sense of "TEAM" more often than we should. This team has proven the last few years, when that sense of "team" is there they are a force. What will it take to get that consistently? There is not a right or wrong way to find it, but one way or the other it has to be found. How it is found is well beyond me? It could be in terms of finding the right chemistry on the court. It could be a matter of just inserting a certain player in certain situations. It could be just a matter of agreeing and accepting whatever gameplan the coaches have every game.

As a former player, I always bought into always hustling and never giving in. I always bought into the gameplan that would lead to W's. For this team, what is so hard to buy into feeding the posts and always playing in your face defense? If we can have those 2 things alone, we will be tough team to beat anytime! :thumb: Are there egos needing some adjustment to buy into what the coaches want? What can be done to lead to the success many in GRIZNATION expect?
 
mtgrizrule said:
GB1 you stated what I meant much better than I did. I really do not know if ass chewings are necessary, but thing or some little things are that can make or break a team in terms of cohesiveness and playing for one another. We miss that cohesiveness and true sense of "TEAM" more often than we should. This team has proven the last few years, when that sense of "team" is there they are a force. What will it take to get that consistently? There is not a right or wrong way to find it, but one way or the other it has to be found. How it is found is well beyond me? It could be in terms of finding the right chemistry on the court. It could be a matter of just inserting a certain player in certain situations. It could be just a matter of agreeing and accepting whatever gameplan the coaches have every game.

As a former player, I always bought into always hustling and never giving in. I always bought into the gameplan that would lead to W's. For this team, what is so hard to buy into feeding the posts and always playing in your face defense? If we can have those 2 things alone, we will be tough team to beat anytime! :thumb: Are there egos needing some adjustment to buy into what the coaches want? What can be done to lead to the success many in GRIZNATION expect?

I wish you could have seen the last two games. Even though the Griz lost to UOP, I left the arena feeling pretty good about the team, especailly their effort, team play, unselfishness, etc. I truly do think these guys care for each other, and respect Tinks. If you have played organized posrts, which most on here have, you can tell whether the guys get along, whether they are listening to the HC. I do think they are on board, but they are also not infallible. I think they sometimes try to do it on their own, not for personal gratification, but because they think they can hit a big shot to help the team. It sometimes takes having to watch film of games like UOP and Santa Clara over and over for them to really see for themselves the difference in playing team ball and forty minutes each night can make. They need a little success now, and I think good things will happen.
 
Well, I think it is a lot harder listening to the radio than it is being at the game. I was fortunate enough to go to both of these games, and can see the talent and what the team is capable of, if they learn from their mistakes. I just happen to be a cup is half full guy, life is more fun that way.

I'm a glass is half full guy too, unless I am low on Scotch. I appreciate the comments of those attending the games. From listening to the radio though, it is starting to feel an awful lot like last year.
 
From here:

Every week we say "Well, it's gonna get better the next week." It's like a guy that fell out of a 20-story building and every time he went by each floor he hollered "Hey, I'm doin' okay so far!" - Lou Holtz

At this point, the Griz basketball season is going the same way a lot of individual games have gone. Every time we get a little run going or see a few positives—like the solid effort at Pacific—we let it all slide away.

These guys have to get out of this mentality that everything is okay because we still have enough talent to win the conference. It's the same way we get down early and figure we can come back in the second half because we have so many talented players. Have you seen what happens? We come up short in every rally. A lot like how we came up short in the Big Sky tournament last season.

I'm not tossing blame on any one person or group of people. This is everyone. We're in a spot where this "it's ok, we'll be fine" attitude isn't going to work. The mentality needs to change. No more "we're okay!" because four straight isn't really "okay." That's bad.

I don't mean to sound like hopelessly pessimistic, because I'm not. I have confidence in this team. As long as they change their ways.
 
Surprisingly the loss did not effect the Griz RPI much at all. They are at 158 today, and I think they were 156 prior to the game yesterday.
 
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