UM has 'enrollment problem,' Engstrom tells regents

[EverettGriz]

This thread can be summed up with an analogy:

The fan favorite on most teams is the back-up QB.

Why do you keep making things up, Everett? How do you know that "most" fans like the back-up? Did you ask them? Stop lying. Jeez.

:thumb:
That's good stuff, there.

 

[Spanky]

Rockmeister....no doubt, Engstrom should be fired, however, we are likely to be stuck with him for several more years. He is a leach and has a good thing going, so he won't resign either.

 

[BadlandsGrizFan]

This is true, but on the other hand the industry in general can be very political based. Can't speak as to the Bakken, but one example is the state of New York did not move and allow fracking of wells when Marcellus drilling was booming. Now that boom is dead, as rig numbers in Pennsylvania have dropped drastically with many of those rigs being moved to Mid-Continent area, the Bakken, and some down in Texas/NM.

There is another factor at play to which is strictly financial. I've seen a few lease maps for the Bakken in Montana, and some of the companies that are major players there, have overextended themselves in places like PA (the Marcellus) and OH (the Utica - which has not played out as anticipated).

Hard to predict rig numbers though in 2025, as you yourself said its a changing dynamic, plus technology will also affect that. Rigs are going to go where the boom is. Who is to say that the Bakken is the best option in 2025? I see Jerry Brown is signing a bill allowing fracking in California, which will be challenged as it will get very political there.

However if drilling is allowed to happen in the Monterey Shale, and it starts to pay as expected, I can see many rigs migrating away from the Bakken (and thus Montana) and heading to California.The Monterey Shale is estimated at having the largest deep shale oil reserves in the world....and it will be a hot boom should drilling be allowed to happen.

So in the end, yes geology plays a major part but so does politics and so does investors. All together it makes for day-to-day changing environment.

I've been following the Monterey play as well, god I can only imagine the nightmares to follow introducing fracking to California. ND is a very easy state for oil companies to work in, California is going to be a fight with every aspect on a daily basis. Also in California the oil side of that shale will be huuuge, but as far as the "boom" aspect goes, not so much. They already have large communities developed in the area and infrastructure in place. The main region why it was such a "complete boom" in ND is because the region where it is taking place was so sparsely populated. ND is building entire cities and infrastructure projects out of plains and prairie. That is why its such an unbelievable boost to the housing and construction market.

California not so much.

ND is similar to OK. Farming communities that have been in decline for years, are starting to come back. Many of them are lined with motor homes, and trailers; similar to the area man camps up there. When I was in PA, it was probably closer to what CA would be; much of the old coal mining infrastructure was being used, including labor. The impact there could not be seen as much as down here.

If I recall doesn't the geology in North Dakota play a hand because the risks are lower to drill there vs Montana. Something to do with the anticlines/synclines thrusting up into North Dakota. The main structure might be in ND whereas in Montana its sort of the "outside looking in." Meaning on the edge instead if the bucket.

Yep, you punch a hole in ND, YOU GET OIL, in MT the geology pushes the formations around more into pockets. For an analogy, Its like if you had a straw and you were sucking up water, its much easier to suck water out of a soup bowl than it is sucking it out of a ice tray. And you are correct about how the anticline affects the oil. The Anticline that traps the formation runs basically along the MT/ND border. Western ND is right on top of the syncline where the oil is trapped in the Bakken, making the formation very deep and productive here.
And I'll remind you that I'm referring to the Bakken as a region, not as the formation, the Three Forks formation is expected to produce much better in Montana than the bakken formation has in MT.
This thread has all of a sudden turned into a geology lesson..go egriz

 

[GrizLA]

Extraction industries come with a high price, no matter where or what it is. Perhaps the best solution is to contribute to Montana Tech. At least it sits above one of the best examples of what greed and industry left uncontrolled can do. I consider donations to the Butte college an investment.

 

[BadlandsGrizFan]

Extraction industries come with a high price, no matter where or what it is. Perhaps the best solution is to contribute to Montana Tech. At least it sits above one of the best examples of what greed and industry left uncontrolled can do. I consider donations to the Butte college an investment.

And at the end of the 6th page, we finally have our Hippie chime in...I was thinking this would be closer to page 2 or 3..haha

 

[srgrizizen]

IMO enrollment issues at UM have two main driving factors..1) Engstrom is a duesch!! 2) The jobs that are available in this country and that companies and corporations are looking for in the future are not available to a large degree at the UM. We do good in areas like the sciences and pharmacy..but than again we have a huge number of students that go into dumb shit that wont get you a job anywhere like the History of French poetry and bull shit like that. If UM wants to see the kids come back they will do more investing in tech programs and programs that feed into the economic activity in the region...ie OIL BOOM. But instead the UM is the first to throw a stone and bash any type of economic activity that has high paying jobs(energy extraction). While in Watford I work and deal with graduates from Montana State and NDSU on a daily basis, and this is because those schools don't turn their heads to the direction jobs in this country are going.

I'm now stepping off my soapbox!!

So what you're saying is that all the available jobs are for trade school grads who live in trailer ghettos in places like the Bakken and have no use for culture or real education. And don't forget, one of the chief glories of a Liberal Arts education is that it teaches you contempt for all those jobs that it prevents you from obtaining. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[GrizLA]

Extraction industries come with a high price, no matter where or what it is. Perhaps the best solution is to contribute to Montana Tech. At least it sits above one of the best examples of what greed and industry left uncontrolled can do. I consider donations to the Butte college an investment.

And at the end of the 6th page, we finally have our Hippie chime in...I was thinking this would be closer to page 2 or 3..haha

I am flattered. Thank you.

 

[BadlandsGrizFan]

IMO enrollment issues at UM have two main driving factors..1) Engstrom is a duesch!! 2) The jobs that are available in this country and that companies and corporations are looking for in the future are not available to a large degree at the UM. We do good in areas like the sciences and pharmacy..but than again we have a huge number of students that go into dumb shit that wont get you a job anywhere like the History of French poetry and bull shit like that. If UM wants to see the kids come back they will do more investing in tech programs and programs that feed into the economic activity in the region...ie OIL BOOM. But instead the UM is the first to throw a stone and bash any type of economic activity that has high paying jobs(energy extraction). While in Watford I work and deal with graduates from Montana State and NDSU on a daily basis, and this is because those schools don't turn their heads to the direction jobs in this country are going.

I'm now stepping off my soapbox!!

So what you're saying is that all the available jobs are for trade school grads who live in trailer ghettos in places like the Bakken and have no use for culture or real education. And don't forget, one of the chief glories of a Liberal Arts education is that it teaches you contempt for all those jobs that it prevents you from obtaining. :lol: :lol: :lol:

No I wasn't saying that at all. I was saying that it would be wise to develop some type of curriculum that takes some advantage of the regional economic activity, and maybe a little less on courses that students aren't getting jobs in, but than again there's always those people like you that are contempt taking those BS courses and living on Higgins in an alley off government funded programs draining our country financially, and not doing anything productive for your country. Furthermore I can tell you know nothing about the region you are attempting to criticize by your one sentence alone. Many of the people out here are extremely successful businessman, engineers and political figures that accomplish more before 8AM than you likely will your entire life. Maybe you should visit the places you criticize before you cast the first stone, than again I thought you would already know this beings your SO CULTURED and everything.

 

[ordigger]

IMO enrollment issues at UM have two main driving factors..1) Engstrom is a duesch!! 2) The jobs that are available in this country and that companies and corporations are looking for in the future are not available to a large degree at the UM. We do good in areas like the sciences and pharmacy..but than again we have a huge number of students that go into dumb shit that wont get you a job anywhere like the History of French poetry and bull shit like that. If UM wants to see the kids come back they will do more investing in tech programs and programs that feed into the economic activity in the region...ie OIL BOOM. But instead the UM is the first to throw a stone and bash any type of economic activity that has high paying jobs(energy extraction). While in Watford I work and deal with graduates from Montana State and NDSU on a daily basis, and this is because those schools don't turn their heads to the direction jobs in this country are going.

I'm now stepping off my soapbox!!

So what you're saying is that all the available jobs are for trade school grads who live in trailer ghettos in places like the Bakken and have no use for culture or real education. And don't forget, one of the chief glories of a Liberal Arts education is that it teaches you contempt for all those jobs that it prevents you from obtaining. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Obviously you've never played the game. Personally I have an engineering degree from Tech, which is just a step above "trade school". Of course many on the oil patch only have high school educations, and they make more than many grads at the UM will ever see. My "ghetto trailer" is nicer than many of my friends homes that went to the UM, btw.

 

[66volvo]

"Unfortunately we had a president like Wayne Hogan..."

Get your facts straight. Wayne Hogan was NEVER our U of M President. AD at one time, but not the president.

 

[tnt]

Obviously you've never played the game. Personally I have an engineering degree from Tech, which is just a step above "trade school". Of course many on the oil patch only have high school educations, and they make more than many grads at the UM will ever see. My "ghetto trailer" is nicer than many of my friends homes that went to the UM, btw.

They also make much more than their fellow grads who have opted to stay off the fields but not near as much as those Liberal Arts grads who went on to grad school that write the contracts, do the lease searches, and run the companies they work for. These poor grads are also the same ones who will be at the or favorite teams game this weekend instead of Jdubs Bar and Grill in Williston.

 

[argh!]

No I wasn't saying that at all. I was saying that it would be wise to develop some type of curriculum that takes some advantage of the regional economic activity, and maybe a little less on courses that students aren't getting jobs in, but than again there's always those people like you that are contempt taking those BS courses and living on Higgins in an alley off government funded programs draining our country financially, and not doing anything productive for your country. Furthermore I can tell you know nothing about the region you are attempting to criticize by your one sentence alone. Many of the people out here are extremely successful businessman, engineers and political figures that accomplish more before 8AM than you likely will your entire life. Maybe you should visit the places you criticize before you cast the first stone, than again I thought you would already know this beings your SO CULTURED and everything.

this very poorly written paragraph makes for a pretty good argument in favor of universities requiring 'liberal arts' courses like english 101 for everyone.

(please spare everyone the grammar comment)

 

[GrizMusician]

UM doesn't have an "enrollment problem." UM has an "Engstrom problem." How long until the regents realize this?

Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk HD

 

[BadlandsGrizFan]

No I wasn't saying that at all. I was saying that it would be wise to develop some type of curriculum that takes some advantage of the regional economic activity, and maybe a little less on courses that students aren't getting jobs in, but than again there's always those people like you that are contempt taking those BS courses and living on Higgins in an alley off government funded programs draining our country financially, and not doing anything productive for your country. Furthermore I can tell you know nothing about the region you are attempting to criticize by your one sentence alone. Many of the people out here are extremely successful businessman, engineers and political figures that accomplish more before 8AM than you likely will your entire life. Maybe you should visit the places you criticize before you cast the first stone, than again I thought you would already know this beings your SO CULTURED and everything.

this very poorly written paragraph makes for a pretty good argument in favor of universities requiring 'liberal arts' courses like english 101 for everyone.

(please spare everyone the grammar comment)

I wasn't aware that this board requires everyone's responses to be written in a professional, grammer error free manner. I'll make sure to proof read all of my egriz postings from here on out!

 

[CDAGRIZ]

No I wasn't saying that at all. I was saying that it would be wise to develop some type of curriculum that takes some advantage of the regional economic activity, and maybe a little less on courses that students aren't getting jobs in, but than again there's always those people like you that are contempt taking those BS courses and living on Higgins in an alley off government funded programs draining our country financially, and not doing anything productive for your country. Furthermore I can tell you know nothing about the region you are attempting to criticize by your one sentence alone. Many of the people out here are extremely successful businessman, engineers and political figures that accomplish more before 8AM than you likely will your entire life. Maybe you should visit the places you criticize before you cast the first stone, than again I thought you would already know this beings your SO CULTURED and everything.

this very poorly written paragraph makes for a pretty good argument in favor of universities requiring 'liberal arts' courses like english 101 for everyone.

(please spare everyone the grammar comment)

I wasn't aware that this board requires everyone's responses to be written in a professional, grammer error free manner.

Oh, c'mon!!!

 

[PlayerRep]

No I wasn't saying that at all. I was saying that it would be wise to develop some type of curriculum that takes some advantage of the regional economic activity, and maybe a little less on courses that students aren't getting jobs in, but than again there's always those people like you that are contempt taking those BS courses and living on Higgins in an alley off government funded programs draining our country financially, and not doing anything productive for your country. Furthermore I can tell you know nothing about the region you are attempting to criticize by your one sentence alone. Many of the people out here are extremely successful businessman, engineers and political figures that accomplish more before 8AM than you likely will your entire life. Maybe you should visit the places you criticize before you cast the first stone, than again I thought you would already know this beings your SO CULTURED and everything.

this very poorly written paragraph makes for a pretty good argument in favor of universities requiring 'liberal arts' courses like english 101 for everyone.

(please spare everyone the grammar comment)

I wasn't aware that this board requires everyone's responses to be written in a professional, grammer error free manner. I'll make sure to proof read all of my egriz postings from here on out!

Stop talking like you're from North Dakota.

 

[Grizzlies1982]

UM is the first to throw a stone and bash any type of economic activity that has high paying jobs(energy extraction). While in Watford I work and deal with graduates from Montana State and NDSU on a daily basis, and this is because those schools don't turn their heads to the direction jobs in this country are going.

So what you're saying is that all the available jobs are for trade school grads who live in trailer ghettos in places like the Bakken and have no use for culture or real education. And don't forget, one of the chief glories of a Liberal Arts education is that it teaches you contempt for all those jobs that it prevents you from obtaining. :lol: :lol: :lol:

No I wasn't saying that at all. I was saying that it would be wise to develop some type of curriculum that takes some advantage of the regional economic activity, and maybe a little less on courses that students aren't getting jobs in...

Badlands is correct. UM offers apx 40 to 50 degrees including ones such as Environmental Studies, African-American Studies, Native American Studies, Women's Studies, and Theater & Dance. While each may have merit to be 'studied' none offer much of an actual career to the student pursuing these degrees. The U also offers an "Energy Technology" degree. Though it describes likely careers as in Environmental Assessment, Renewal Energy Technology, Wind Technician, Solar Installers, and Bio-Fuel Management. Do you see a trend here?

The 'other' traditional energy business is actually the second leading industry in the State. You would think the University of Montana would seek a program compatible with the needs of oil & gas and coal industries. Instead we have the Univ. sponsoring anti-fossil fuel rallies which seek to obstruct the very businesses which help support the state and the university.
:ugeek:

 

[GrizLA]

UM is the first to throw a stone and bash any type of economic activity that has high paying jobs(energy extraction). While in Watford I work and deal with graduates from Montana State and NDSU on a daily basis, and this is because those schools don't turn their heads to the direction jobs in this country are going.

So what you're saying is that all the available jobs are for trade school grads who live in trailer ghettos in places like the Bakken and have no use for culture or real education. And don't forget, one of the chief glories of a Liberal Arts education is that it teaches you contempt for all those jobs that it prevents you from obtaining. :lol: :lol: :lol:

No I wasn't saying that at all. I was saying that it would be wise to develop some type of curriculum that takes some advantage of the regional economic activity, and maybe a little less on courses that students aren't getting jobs in...

Badlands is correct. UM offers apx 40 to 50 degrees including ones such as Environmental Studies, African-American Studies, Native American Studies, Women's Studies, and Theater & Dance. While each may have merit to be 'studied' none offer much of an actual career to the student pursuing these degrees. The U also offers an "Energy Technology" degree. Though it describes likely careers as in Environmental Assessment, Renewal Energy Technology, Wind Technician, Solar Installers, and Bio-Fuel Management. Do you see a trend here?

The 'other' traditional energy business is actually the second leading industry in the State. You would think the University of Montana would seek a program compatible with the needs of oil & gas and coal industries. Instead we have the Univ. sponsoring anti-fossil fuel rallies which seek to obstruct the very businesses which help support the state and the university.
:ugeek:

UM looks to the future and thank goodness for that!

 

[BadlandsGrizFan]

So what you're saying is that all the available jobs are for trade school grads who live in trailer ghettos in places like the Bakken and have no use for culture or real education. And don't forget, one of the chief glories of a Liberal Arts education is that it teaches you contempt for all those jobs that it prevents you from obtaining. :lol: :lol: :lol:

No I wasn't saying that at all. I was saying that it would be wise to develop some type of curriculum that takes some advantage of the regional economic activity, and maybe a little less on courses that students aren't getting jobs in...

Badlands is correct. UM offers apx 40 to 50 degrees including ones such as Environmental Studies, African-American Studies, Native American Studies, Women's Studies, and Theater & Dance. While each may have merit to be 'studied' none offer much of an actual career to the student pursuing these degrees. The U also offers an "Energy Technology" degree. Though it describes likely careers as in Environmental Assessment, Renewal Energy Technology, Wind Technician, Solar Installers, and Bio-Fuel Management. Do you see a trend here?

The 'other' traditional energy business is actually the second leading industry in the State. You would think the University of Montana would seek a program compatible with the needs of oil & gas and coal industries. Instead we have the Univ. sponsoring anti-fossil fuel rallies which seek to obstruct the very businesses which help support the state and the university.
:ugeek:

UM looks to the future and thank goodness for that!

If the future of UM is offering programs that can't get their graduates jobs, than their future isn't looking so bright! Thank you GrizLA for adding such valuable insight into this convo. The world which was once so dark and scary is now much brighter thanks to the beacon of the future that is GrizLA

 

[tnt]

UM is the first to throw a stone and bash any type of economic activity that has high paying jobs(energy extraction). While in Watford I work and deal with graduates from Montana State and NDSU on a daily basis, and this is because those schools don't turn their heads to the direction jobs in this country are going.

So what you're saying is that all the available jobs are for trade school grads who live in trailer ghettos in places like the Bakken and have no use for culture or real education. And don't forget, one of the chief glories of a Liberal Arts education is that it teaches you contempt for all those jobs that it prevents you from obtaining. :lol: :lol: :lol:

No I wasn't saying that at all. I was saying that it would be wise to develop some type of curriculum that takes some advantage of the regional economic activity, and maybe a little less on courses that students aren't getting jobs in...

Badlands is correct. UM offers apx 40 to 50 degrees including ones such as Environmental Studies, African-American Studies, Native American Studies, Women's Studies, and Theater & Dance. While each may have merit to be 'studied' none offer much of an actual career to the student pursuing these degrees. The U also offers an "Energy Technology" degree. Though it describes likely careers as in Environmental Assessment, Renewal Energy Technology, Wind Technician, Solar Installers, and Bio-Fuel Management. Do you see a trend here?

The 'other' traditional energy business is actually the second leading industry in the State. You would think the University of Montana would seek a program compatible with the needs of oil & gas and coal industries. Instead we have the Univ. sponsoring anti-fossil fuel rallies which seek to obstruct the very businesses which help support the state and the university.
:ugeek:

To the best of my knowledge both the geology and chemistry departments at UM are alive and well and producing graduates. The argument of the BA vs BS doesn't hold water.