-
Hi Guest, want to participate in the discussions, keep track of read/unread posts access private forums and more? Create your free account and increase the benefits of your eGriz.com experience today!
UM has 'enrollment problem,' Engstrom tells regents
- Thread starter PlayerRep
- Start date
Sorry to subvert the dominant eGriz paradigm, but some of you people are complete morons.
From Bloomberg Businessweek:
…Jeff Immelt, the CEO at General Electric (GE), studied applied mathematics at Dartmouth before getting his MBA at Harvard Business School (Harvard Full-Time MBA Profile).Another Harvard MBA, James Dimon at JPMorgan Chase (JPM), studied psychology (plus economics) at Tufts.Michael Dell was a pre-med student at the University of Texas at Austin before he dropped out, only to end up running the computer company that bears his name.And when the former chief executive officer at Hewlett-Packard (HPQ), Carly Fiorina, cracked the books as a Stanford undergrad, they were books about philosophy and medieval history.She later went on to get two different advanced management degrees from the University of Maryland Smith School of Business (Smith Full-Time MBA Profile) and MIT's Sloan School of Management (Sloan Full-Time MBA Profile), but in college the world of business just wasn't on her radar.
And those are hardly the only examples. Janet Robinson was an undergraduate English major at Salve Regina University, an academic calling befitting the chief executive officer of the New York Times Co. (NYT). Robert Iger majored in communications as an undergraduate at Ithaca College: He's now running Walt Disney (DIS). And Sam Palmisano, the chief executive officer at IBM (IBM), studied history at Johns Hopkins.
Most people would be hard-pressed to see the future CEO in a 20-year-old philosophy major. But there may be a reason why some of them end up running big companies.
Headhunters will tell you that in one way, what an executive studied in college is almost meaningless. The HP board, when it was considering Fiorina for CEO, wasn't mulling over how her undergraduate degree in medieval history might help the company sell more printers—it was parsing her work at AT&T (T) and Lucent, and her strategic vision for HP.
But in another way, undergraduate degrees do matter. A lot. Peter Crist, of the Hinsdale (Ill.) executive search firm Crist Kolder Associates, notes that individuals with a liberal arts background have one big advantage over those with undergraduate degrees in business, engineering, or the sciences: an expansive and inquiring mind. Without it, he says, making the leap from middle management to C-suite is impossible. "I don't believe leaders are born," Crist says. "I believe over a long period of time, leadership traits are imbued in an individual." Studying literature, history, and big ideas is one way that happens.
Perhaps the best formula for creating a CEO, Crist says, is one part generalist, one part specialist—a dash of liberal arts with a soupçon of business or engineering, ideally as an advanced degree. In fact, this is the educational trajectory followed by a lot of top CEOs. Ken Chenault at American Express (AXP) studied history as an undergraduate at Bowdoin College, then a few years later got his JD from Harvard Law. Dan Hesse majored in government and international studies at Notre Dame in the '70s, earning an MBA from Cornell (Johnson Full-Time MBA Profile) before landing the first of several CEO jobs.He's now chief executive officer, and chief pitchman, for Sprint Nextel (S).James Rogers, the Eastman Chemical (EMN) chief, got his undergraduate degree in psychology at the University of Virginia a decade before bagging an MBA from Wharton (Wharton Full-Time MBA Profile).
Todd Buchholz, the author of New Ideas from Dead CEOs, doesn't disagree with Crist's premise. In fact, he goes one step further. Business education, in the absence of passion for a specific business idea, he says, is at best a waste of time, and at worst a passion killer. "To me, studying business as an undergrad is like reading the car manual that came with your car before learning how to drive," says Buchholz. "It shouldn't be what comes first. If it's the first thing you learn, it's probably the route to misery."
Michael Useem, a management professor at Wharton who has studied the intersection of higher education and corporate management, says CEOs and other senior executives need "a general understanding of how everything works," perhaps more so than the kinds of business basics taught in college. "For larger companies and senior positions, an understanding of history, art, and how societies operate are assets," Useem says. "To be effective in the higher reaches of the private sector, some combination of liberal arts and a business degree is the sweet spot."
http://www.businessweek.com/stories/2010-05-17/accidental-moguls-college-majors-of-top-ceosbusinessweek-business-news-stock-market-and-financial-advice" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
From Bloomberg Businessweek:
…Jeff Immelt, the CEO at General Electric (GE), studied applied mathematics at Dartmouth before getting his MBA at Harvard Business School (Harvard Full-Time MBA Profile).Another Harvard MBA, James Dimon at JPMorgan Chase (JPM), studied psychology (plus economics) at Tufts.Michael Dell was a pre-med student at the University of Texas at Austin before he dropped out, only to end up running the computer company that bears his name.And when the former chief executive officer at Hewlett-Packard (HPQ), Carly Fiorina, cracked the books as a Stanford undergrad, they were books about philosophy and medieval history.She later went on to get two different advanced management degrees from the University of Maryland Smith School of Business (Smith Full-Time MBA Profile) and MIT's Sloan School of Management (Sloan Full-Time MBA Profile), but in college the world of business just wasn't on her radar.
And those are hardly the only examples. Janet Robinson was an undergraduate English major at Salve Regina University, an academic calling befitting the chief executive officer of the New York Times Co. (NYT). Robert Iger majored in communications as an undergraduate at Ithaca College: He's now running Walt Disney (DIS). And Sam Palmisano, the chief executive officer at IBM (IBM), studied history at Johns Hopkins.
Most people would be hard-pressed to see the future CEO in a 20-year-old philosophy major. But there may be a reason why some of them end up running big companies.
Headhunters will tell you that in one way, what an executive studied in college is almost meaningless. The HP board, when it was considering Fiorina for CEO, wasn't mulling over how her undergraduate degree in medieval history might help the company sell more printers—it was parsing her work at AT&T (T) and Lucent, and her strategic vision for HP.
But in another way, undergraduate degrees do matter. A lot. Peter Crist, of the Hinsdale (Ill.) executive search firm Crist Kolder Associates, notes that individuals with a liberal arts background have one big advantage over those with undergraduate degrees in business, engineering, or the sciences: an expansive and inquiring mind. Without it, he says, making the leap from middle management to C-suite is impossible. "I don't believe leaders are born," Crist says. "I believe over a long period of time, leadership traits are imbued in an individual." Studying literature, history, and big ideas is one way that happens.
Perhaps the best formula for creating a CEO, Crist says, is one part generalist, one part specialist—a dash of liberal arts with a soupçon of business or engineering, ideally as an advanced degree. In fact, this is the educational trajectory followed by a lot of top CEOs. Ken Chenault at American Express (AXP) studied history as an undergraduate at Bowdoin College, then a few years later got his JD from Harvard Law. Dan Hesse majored in government and international studies at Notre Dame in the '70s, earning an MBA from Cornell (Johnson Full-Time MBA Profile) before landing the first of several CEO jobs.He's now chief executive officer, and chief pitchman, for Sprint Nextel (S).James Rogers, the Eastman Chemical (EMN) chief, got his undergraduate degree in psychology at the University of Virginia a decade before bagging an MBA from Wharton (Wharton Full-Time MBA Profile).
Todd Buchholz, the author of New Ideas from Dead CEOs, doesn't disagree with Crist's premise. In fact, he goes one step further. Business education, in the absence of passion for a specific business idea, he says, is at best a waste of time, and at worst a passion killer. "To me, studying business as an undergrad is like reading the car manual that came with your car before learning how to drive," says Buchholz. "It shouldn't be what comes first. If it's the first thing you learn, it's probably the route to misery."
Michael Useem, a management professor at Wharton who has studied the intersection of higher education and corporate management, says CEOs and other senior executives need "a general understanding of how everything works," perhaps more so than the kinds of business basics taught in college. "For larger companies and senior positions, an understanding of history, art, and how societies operate are assets," Useem says. "To be effective in the higher reaches of the private sector, some combination of liberal arts and a business degree is the sweet spot."
http://www.businessweek.com/stories/2010-05-17/accidental-moguls-college-majors-of-top-ceosbusinessweek-business-news-stock-market-and-financial-advice" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
MTOutsider
Well-known member
http://www.payscale.com/college-education-value-2012" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
MSU ranked 366
UM ranked 811
MSU ranked 366
UM ranked 811
Why Businesses Prefer a Liberal Arts Education
Published: Monday, 15 Apr 2013 | 10:16 AM ET
What do American businesses want from their college hires? According to a new survey, creative thinkers and better communicators—both of which are said to be in short supply.
The survey of CEOs by the Association of American Colleges and Universities found that 74 percent said they would recommend a 21st-century liberal education in order to create a more dynamic worker. The survey of 320 business leaders was conducted in January. Results were released last week.
For some analysts, the findings point to an overemphasis on the so called STEM subjects (science, technology, engineering and math) at the expense of a broader education that's also needed for business.
"A stem education is important but I think it's sucked all the oxygen out of the room and crowded out investment in other areas like history, literature and political science," said Jamie McKown, chairman of the government and polity department at the College of the Atlantic.
"I think the U.S. will lose some of its competitive edge if it takes the simplistic approach that this (STEM education) is the only pathway to economic success."
A key result in the survey is the need for innovation in the workplace. Ninety-five percent of those surveyed said they look for college graduates who can think clearly and solve problems and be able to translate their ideas with good oral and communication skills.
One business owner said these talents are at top of his list for hiring.
"We want task-orientated people who have disciplines in critical thinking," said Michael Fromm, CEO of Fromm Electric, an electrical manufacturing firm based in Reading, Pa.
"If someone's studied literature, they know people and have insight into themselves and customers," said Fromm, who majored in journalism. "I find people that have a liberal arts background have a broader view of the world and will go farther in business."
The survey also found that business executives thought colleges weren't teaching students what they need to know to succeed. A third of employers said graduates weren't even qualified for entry level work when it came to reading and writing.
Some colleges say they are trying to meet the demand.
"Companies want people who are functionally literate and can read and write," said Jonathan Hill, co-director of the Stem Center at Pace University. "When business students come here, they learn the computer languages but we also make them take a foreign language. The idea is to have graduates strong in their chosen business area and in the arts, like writing and reading."
"Our business students take more liberal arts classes, like the humanities, literature and art, than they take business classes," said Donald Gibson, dean of Fairfield University. "This is rare among colleges, but we think this makes them more well rounded and better at succeeding in their chose field of business."
But a liberal education, one that might focus on the arts and humanities, has come under fire lately in an economy that's slow to create jobs.
Governors in Florida, Texas, and North Carolina have said they are thinking of shifting state funding to degrees that have the best job prospects—specifically those in math, science and technology and away from liberal arts. They cite the need to improve a graduate's work prospects, with unemployment hovering around 7.6 percent.
"It's easier to sell math and science as a political selling point with the current economic moment," said McKown. "That's nothing new, though the data suggests it's not necessarily more relevant for employers."
A focus on a STEM education as well as liberal arts should be part of any argument, said Mauri Ditzler, president of Monmouth College.
"To say that the country is spending too much time on science and math at the expense of liberal arts is a wrong distinction," Ditzler said. "It's important for students to have humanities as well as math and science. That's what we do here at Monmouth. We expose students to all areas of education."
Only 8 percent of college students now major in the humanities, according to the American Academy of Arts and Sciences. That's down from a peak of more than 17 percent in 1967. For Gibson, that's a sign of economic pressure.
"There's a strong concern by students and parents to focus on an education that seems like an immediate gateway to a job," the Fairfield University dean said. "But they're not getting the full education they need. They end up missing some basic skills that businesses want."
For Brian Fox, an adjunct professor at Vanderbilt University and founder of Confirmation.com, a firm that specializes in electronic audit confirmations, students must realize they have to change with the times.
"Businesses want more now," Fox said. "In places like Google, they want people who are self-motivated and articulate and can think on their own. It's not enough just to have tech skills. Graduates have to do more."
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100642178" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Published: Monday, 15 Apr 2013 | 10:16 AM ET
What do American businesses want from their college hires? According to a new survey, creative thinkers and better communicators—both of which are said to be in short supply.
The survey of CEOs by the Association of American Colleges and Universities found that 74 percent said they would recommend a 21st-century liberal education in order to create a more dynamic worker. The survey of 320 business leaders was conducted in January. Results were released last week.
For some analysts, the findings point to an overemphasis on the so called STEM subjects (science, technology, engineering and math) at the expense of a broader education that's also needed for business.
"A stem education is important but I think it's sucked all the oxygen out of the room and crowded out investment in other areas like history, literature and political science," said Jamie McKown, chairman of the government and polity department at the College of the Atlantic.
"I think the U.S. will lose some of its competitive edge if it takes the simplistic approach that this (STEM education) is the only pathway to economic success."
A key result in the survey is the need for innovation in the workplace. Ninety-five percent of those surveyed said they look for college graduates who can think clearly and solve problems and be able to translate their ideas with good oral and communication skills.
One business owner said these talents are at top of his list for hiring.
"We want task-orientated people who have disciplines in critical thinking," said Michael Fromm, CEO of Fromm Electric, an electrical manufacturing firm based in Reading, Pa.
"If someone's studied literature, they know people and have insight into themselves and customers," said Fromm, who majored in journalism. "I find people that have a liberal arts background have a broader view of the world and will go farther in business."
The survey also found that business executives thought colleges weren't teaching students what they need to know to succeed. A third of employers said graduates weren't even qualified for entry level work when it came to reading and writing.
Some colleges say they are trying to meet the demand.
"Companies want people who are functionally literate and can read and write," said Jonathan Hill, co-director of the Stem Center at Pace University. "When business students come here, they learn the computer languages but we also make them take a foreign language. The idea is to have graduates strong in their chosen business area and in the arts, like writing and reading."
"Our business students take more liberal arts classes, like the humanities, literature and art, than they take business classes," said Donald Gibson, dean of Fairfield University. "This is rare among colleges, but we think this makes them more well rounded and better at succeeding in their chose field of business."
But a liberal education, one that might focus on the arts and humanities, has come under fire lately in an economy that's slow to create jobs.
Governors in Florida, Texas, and North Carolina have said they are thinking of shifting state funding to degrees that have the best job prospects—specifically those in math, science and technology and away from liberal arts. They cite the need to improve a graduate's work prospects, with unemployment hovering around 7.6 percent.
"It's easier to sell math and science as a political selling point with the current economic moment," said McKown. "That's nothing new, though the data suggests it's not necessarily more relevant for employers."
A focus on a STEM education as well as liberal arts should be part of any argument, said Mauri Ditzler, president of Monmouth College.
"To say that the country is spending too much time on science and math at the expense of liberal arts is a wrong distinction," Ditzler said. "It's important for students to have humanities as well as math and science. That's what we do here at Monmouth. We expose students to all areas of education."
Only 8 percent of college students now major in the humanities, according to the American Academy of Arts and Sciences. That's down from a peak of more than 17 percent in 1967. For Gibson, that's a sign of economic pressure.
"There's a strong concern by students and parents to focus on an education that seems like an immediate gateway to a job," the Fairfield University dean said. "But they're not getting the full education they need. They end up missing some basic skills that businesses want."
For Brian Fox, an adjunct professor at Vanderbilt University and founder of Confirmation.com, a firm that specializes in electronic audit confirmations, students must realize they have to change with the times.
"Businesses want more now," Fox said. "In places like Google, they want people who are self-motivated and articulate and can think on their own. It's not enough just to have tech skills. Graduates have to do more."
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100642178" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
BadlandsGrizFan
Well-known member
Ya before you go cutting and pasting anymore articles, I was talking about getting a job right out of college, not 20 years down the road. Obviously it is ideal to be well rounded in all fields, and with any career you'll find a little common sense and a general understanding of everything will take you a lot further than any degree alone.
BadlandsGrizFan said:
I just wanted to quote somebody from Monmouth College. :thumb:
Grizbeer
Well-known member
Not to derail this topic, but the push back against using the golf course for the COT came because Dennison had previously worked out a plan to sell the golf course to developers who would build high-end condo's on the property. When that plan failed the proposal for the COT at the golf course surfaced. All Dennison had to do was get enough of the golf course developed to close down the course, and he could commence with selling the balance of the land for Condo's.BadlandsGrizFan said:
BTW, the no-brainer would have been to build the COT on the weed-infested under-developed land the University owns by Fort Missoula where the industrial COT classes are held, and which was acquired specifically for further COT development.
Grizmayor
Well-known member
Walking and talking with most Montanan's when the subject comes up about the UM... they like the football program, and detest the Sanctuary City, Liberal Tree Hugger reputation that Missoula and the school is getting (or has GOT). The Rainbow People should have just camped out at the college instead of ruining a good ten acres of sage brush in the Big Hole. I love my Griz, but I wouldn't push my kids to go to school there for the brainwashing.
A good president/CEO would take a hard look at which programs have enrollment and which ones do not. Run it like a business and cut programs with a low student(income) to high expense ratio. A recent Forbes(?) article on the solvency of private colleges described just this though on how some are surviving and how others are on the edge of going under. The problem with a public university is that the CEO will go back to the public for more funding instead of getting creative on how to survive and "Thrive" (their current marketing brilliance).
If they cut unsustainable programs, they'd probably have the funds and classroom space for the COT programs without taking out valuable green space.
If they cut unsustainable programs, they'd probably have the funds and classroom space for the COT programs without taking out valuable green space.
Grisly Fan
Well-known member
Pardon my ignorance but is there anything in writing anywhere that designates the UM as a liberal arts school and MSU as a technology school per se? Or can each school take their curriculum whichever direction that they want? For example, could the UM decide to form an electrical engineering school?
I think before you get into a huge philosophical argument, you need to look at where the decline of enrollment is coming from. My guess is mostly incoming freshman. If that the case, it is most likely a result of bad PR over the past couple of years and the university giving up on its advertising. We used to be much better at advertising and selling the university than MSU was. Roles have changed. This conversation you are having right now was the exact same conversation that they had on bobcat nation a few years ago. We dropped the ball on selling ourselves and MSU picked it up and ran with it.
BigSkyBears
Well-known member
Grizmayor said:
There's nothing wrong with being Liberal.
MSU is a land grant institution which pushes them more towards the technical and agriculture. I have a degree in agriculture and would love to have been able to attend UM but had to make a decision based on what I wanted vs what I needed. I wanted to go to school in Missoula. I needed to get a degree from Bozeman. Or Moscow but we all know that just isn't an option.Grisly Fan said:
wbtfg
Well-known member
Grisly Fan said:
I think it would have to be run through the board of regents, and I think the first question they would ask is whether or not there is enough demand to add another electrical engineering program in the state. Especially considering EE is an extremely expensive program to run.
My daughter was in the graduating class of 2012 and now attends msu. When selecting a school she reached out to both. The recruiting efforts by msu were absolutely amazing. They had a 3 day orientation where the kids and a parent visited and were given a perfect tour. Every aspect of the school was addressed and it felt very inviting. The UM tour was meet some girl at the admissions office with 10 others and get walked around campus by someone who didn't want to be there. My daughter was accepted into both the Davidson Honors College and The Honors school at MSU with a full tuition waiver. The interst from MSU was over whelming. They wanted her at MSU. UM had a interview with her but it felt very awkward. I might be a bit biased as she is my daughter but why in the world would MSU "court" her weekly and UM never really made much of an effort. She graduated CMR as the 6th ranked kid, scored 31 on her ACT, and was very active in sports. Gotta say I was very dissapointed in UofM. They gave her no reason to attend in relation to MSU. She is currently on the deans list with a perfect 4.0 and excelling as a young adult. My son who will graduate in 2015 is as talented has heard from MSU but not UM. Go figure 
I will say my daughter is getting a good education and is enjoying herself.
I will say my daughter is getting a good education and is enjoying herself.
Things have not changed one iota from the late 1990s, when my daughter was graduating near the top of her class from Sentinel HS in Missoula -- and heard virtually nothing from UM, while receiving endless information from more than 100 other universities and colleges.bigkid said:My daughter was in the graduating class of 2012 and now attends msu. When selecting a school she reached out to both. The recruiting efforts by msu were absolutely amazing. They had a 3 day orientation where the kids and a parent visited and were given a perfect tour. Every aspect of the school was addressed and it felt very inviting. The UM tour was meet some girl at the admissions office with 10 others and get walked around campus by someone who didn't want to be there. My daughter was accepted into both the Davidson Honors College and The Honors school at MSU with a full tuition waiver. The interst from MSU was over whelming. They wanted her at MSU. UM had a interview with her but it felt very awkward. I might be a bit biased as she is my daughter but why in the world would MSU "court" her weekly and UM never really made much of an effort. She graduated CMR as the 6th ranked kid, scored 31 on her ACT, and was very active in sports. Gotta say I was very dissapointed in UofM. They gave her no reason to attend in relation to MSU. She is currently on the deans list with a perfect 4.0 and excelling as a young adult. My son who will graduate in 2015 is as talented has heard from MSU but not UM. Go figure
I will say my daughter is getting a good education and is enjoying herself.
grizfromhel said:
i think you mean the depressed bush two-war economy, that we are slowing getting out of during the obama administration? i'm no fan of obama, but your assessment of the economy is absurd. the housing, stock market, etc, crashes that were instigated during the bush years are all rebounding. i imagine you don't like that, but hey, it is what it is.
Latest posts
-
-
-
Auction - Delaney Doherty Memorial Scholarship Foundation
- Latest: HookedonGriz
