UM and MSU enrollment stats

[uofmman1122]

I've got a better idea. You don't deal with or rely on administrations, your kid deals with the bullies.

For verbal such as: 1 "you are so stupid you need a math tutor" or 2 "joe likes boys"; your kid agrees and explains: 1) Yeah, you're right, I struggle with math, but I'm pretty good at soccer (or whatever) and for example 2) Says "sure, I like boys who like girls, do you like girls?" Takes away their reason to bully and leaves them without a comeback. Teach your kid how to deal with them other than getting upset.

For Physical bullying, take your kids to learn Krav Maga. This will allow them to be able neutralize any physical threat to themselves or others when threatened. And the follow up is parents need to ask their kid, in front of school administrators when the bully goes crying to mommy and you are called to school, who threw the first punch? When your kids say "he did", you tell the kid to do it again if they do that again, and on your way out tell the admins you will sue the sh*t out of them if there are any scholastic repercussions. Then take your kid for ice cream. Don't be bashful, everything in schools is now recorded by cameras or other kids with cell phones.

Even better idea, parochial schools or home schooling.

"If your kid is getting bullied it's their own fault" is certainly a take.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Wow. Thank you for sharing this story. As someone who has a 6th grader and a 2nd grader, this is a big fear of mine as the kiddos get older. I’ve heard so many similar stories from all over the state/country.

You didn't ask for it, but the only advice I can give is to put them in team sports/activities with kids who go to their schools. It could even be band, drama club, debate club, etc. Being part of a "group" can really shield against the bullying BS according to what I've read and witnessed.

A few on here know my younger daughter's story. Covid shutdowns cut her out of kindergarten and most of first grade. She went back to school addicted to screens (my fault), isolated from peers, no confidence, etc. We had her go out for softball. She ended up being pretty good. Fast forward, and she spent the entirety of 2023 playing in games, traveling to tournaments, staying in hotels, and hanging out with 12 friends she made just from going to one tryout way back in the spring of first grade. Some teammates come over to the house, play catch, watch movies, have sleepovers, all that stuff. I'm not exaggerating when I say it truly changed her life.

 

[ElrodGrizzly]

I've got a better idea. You don't deal with or rely on administrations, your kid deals with the bullies.

For verbal such as: 1 "you are so stupid you need a math tutor" or 2 "joe likes boys"; your kid agrees and explains: 1) Yeah, you're right, I struggle with math, but I'm pretty good at soccer (or whatever) and for example 2) Says "sure, I like boys who like girls, do you like girls?" Takes away their reason to bully and leaves them without a comeback. Teach your kid how to deal with them other than getting upset.

For Physical bullying, take your kids to learn Krav Maga. This will allow them to be able neutralize any physical threat to themselves or others when threatened. And the follow up is parents need to ask their kid, in front of school administrators when the bully goes crying to mommy and you are called to school, who threw the first punch? When your kids say "he did", you tell the kid to do it again if they do that again, and on your way out tell the admins you will sue the sh*t out of them if there are any scholastic repercussions. Then take your kid for ice cream. Don't be bashful, everything in schools is now recorded by cameras or other kids with cell phones.

Even better idea, parochial schools or home schooling.

While I get your sentiment, some kids won't be taken aback by verbal comebacks. It will just make them mad and it gets physical. Even if you teach a kid Krav, if his bully is a good wrestler or has some training of their own, the Krav Maga really isn't as effective as their teachers and practitioners say.

I do think kids should know how to fight, and I've had plenty of boxing and grappling lessons with mine, but sometimes there isn't such an easy answer. I will always be thankful that I hit six feet tall in middle school. Sometimes it's just about who is bigger at that age for who people try to pick on, and there isn't much more to it

 

[horribilisfan8184]

I've got a better idea. You don't deal with or rely on administrations, your kid deals with the bullies.

For verbal such as: 1 "you are so stupid you need a math tutor" or 2 "joe likes boys"; your kid agrees and explains: 1) Yeah, you're right, I struggle with math, but I'm pretty good at soccer (or whatever) and for example 2) Says "sure, I like boys who like girls, do you like girls?" Takes away their reason to bully and leaves them without a comeback. Teach your kid how to deal with them other than getting upset.

For Physical bullying, take your kids to learn Krav Maga. This will allow them to be able neutralize any physical threat to themselves or others when threatened. And the follow up is parents need to ask their kid, in front of school administrators when the bully goes crying to mommy and you are called to school, who threw the first punch? When your kids say "he did", you tell the kid to do it again if they do that again, and on your way out tell the admins you will sue the sh*t out of them if there are any scholastic repercussions. Then take your kid for ice cream. Don't be bashful, everything in schools is now recorded by cameras or other kids with cell phones.

Even better idea, parochial schools or home schooling.

"If your kid is getting bullied it's their own fault" is certainly a take.

That's not what I'm saying at all, but you are partially on the right track. Bullies pick certain people: those who don't fight back. You can twist the truth any way you want if it makes you feel like a more compassionate or empathetic person, but nothing puts an end to bullying like a swift kick to their nuts.

 

[ElrodGrizzly]

"If your kid is getting bullied it's their own fault" is certainly a take.

That's not what I'm saying at all, but you are partially on the right track. Bullies pick certain people: those who don't fight back. You can twist the truth any way you want if it makes you feel like a more compassionate or empathetic person, but nothing puts an end to bullying like a swift kick to their nuts.

And then what happens when the bigger, meaner kid gets up from the nut kick? It isn't a movie. There is always a next day and a next scene. In my experience, kids got picked on until they had more friends or bigger friends. Not everyone CAN fight back, and sending kids to TKD or Krav for the basics and then sending them out to fight a bigger, meaner kid will get them hurt.

I am sympathetic to SOME of your point. Everyone should learn how to defend themselves. I even teach people for free sometimes, or did in the past when I had free time. But we live in a society of rules and civility. I don't think the solution is to further breed that out of kids. You should be safe in school just like it is not acceptable to bully and attack people in the workplace. Period. Full stop. We aren't training Spartans, we are raising children to be healthy and successful members of a civil society.

 

[uofmman1122]

"If your kid is getting bullied it's their own fault" is certainly a take.

That's not what I'm saying at all, but you are partially on the right track. Bullies pick certain people: those who don't fight back. You can twist the truth any way you want if it makes you feel like a more compassionate or empathetic person, but nothing puts an end to bullying like a swift kick to their nuts.

All this really tells me is that you probably never experienced the isolation and intimidation that comes from actual bullying.

More often than not, it's not something that reciprocal violence or witty comebacks can so easily fix.

 

[SoldierGriz]

That's not what I'm saying at all, but you are partially on the right track. Bullies pick certain people: those who don't fight back. You can twist the truth any way you want if it makes you feel like a more compassionate or empathetic person, but nothing puts an end to bullying like a swift kick to their nuts.

And then what happens when the bigger, meaner kid gets up from the nut kick? It isn't a movie. There is always a next day and a next scene. In my experience, kids got picked on until they had more friends or bigger friends. Not everyone CAN fight back, and sending kids to TKD or Krav for the basics and then sending them out to fight a bigger, meaner kid will get them hurt.

I am sympathetic to SOME of your point. Everyone should learn how to defend themselves. I even teach people for free sometimes, or did in the past when I had free time. But we live in a society of rules and civility. I don't think the solution is to further breed that out of kids. You should be safe in school just like it is not acceptable to bully and attack people in the workplace. Period. Full stop. We aren't training Spartans, we are raising children to be healthy and successful members of a civil society.

Kids who know how to fight...don't get bullied more than once.

Get your kid in the local youth wtestling program. Problem solved quickly....

 

[GrizLA]

Ok.... I am not going to stick up for, or make excuses for MSU (even though it will sound like I am). Any time you have this many investigations, there is something that needs to change. WITH THAT SAID...

BACKSTORY -- I have a son that is now online schooling for his final semester of High School (actually has been for a year now) because of bullying. This has been an issue with him since he was in elementary school. We went to the school about it, and they said that they can only do so much "Because most of the counselors have left because of parents and threat of litigation every time their kid gets in trouble". We talked to them about working through Gallatin high online schooling (this is after he missed 1/2 a semester because of a mental health issue he had) and the 1st thing they said was "Well you know it isn't free, you will have to pay for it". Our response was, of course we know that, and will do what ever it takes to get him done with this situation so he can move on... They then had the Superintendent of the school district reach out to us and basically say "There is nothing we can do about the bullying, because you never reported it"... Well, The Wife had receipts (as the young kids say) and brought up over 20 times we talked to principles, counselors, teachers, you name it. We never heard back from him OR the Principle again.

POINT OF STORY--- We are now starting a group that will bring in better guidelines for teachers and schools to deal with this... the lead on this project told us that the schools themselves (High Schools on down to Elementary) have now been frozen in fear over parents threatening to bring legal action every time their little angel gets in trouble. To the point that they actually show up WITH THIER LAYWERS when they meet about disciplining the kid, or even meeting with the parents... This has bread an internal mistrust in administration for any kid or family that feels like they aren't being heard, or that action is not being taken. It is easier to go above the school or administration, because of the amount of red tape it takes for anything to happen... Top that off with social media sites like "Snap Chat" that you can message a kid and it deletes 5 seconds later, and nothing can happen. My son was choked from behind by another kid as school (with a towel rolled up) and dropped to the ground as a Sophomore, here are the steps we had to take

1) Our son was choked, so her reported it to the school
2) The school took 2 weeks to get back to us after "Looking at tape and talking to kids" in that time the kid who did it was told that they were investigation the issue, but was not taken out of any of the classes he shared with my son
3) The school then found that they couldn't "Tell from the tape" if it was a joke or not, so nothing could be done unless my son wanted to press assault charges with the police
4) The School then set up counseling sessions with my son, so HE could find better ways to react to situations like this when they arise

All this time my son is getting "Snap Chat" messages from kids calling him a "Snitch" and telling him to kill himself... By this point he was so terrified to say anything that he just gave up. LONG STORY LONGER, Administrations are so afraid of parents lawsuits and having to follow handfuls of red tape, that they are actually harming kids worse. I honestly don't know what is better, having 11 DOE investigations, or 11 Civil lawsuits filed, because one or the other is going to happen. I don't remember a time where the division between people was so heated and hate filled. I wouldn't ever want to be in the position these schools are in, because no matter what you do, it will be looked at with discussed by one side or the other...

That concludes my Ted Talk.

That is a cautionary tale but not unusual these days. I am fortunate to have gone to Butte Central HI when the Irish Bros. had it and only they were right and no one defied them. The parents, if there were any, in some cases there weren't while others were alcoholic and abusive sent their kids to Central for tough love attitude. You could either deal with things yourself, or other groups of boys would come to your aide, but if the parents or kid didn't like it, they could always leave and go to Butte High..

 

[mthoopsfan]

Most kids who are getting bullied these days are not kids who have any clue about sports, or have any chance of learning much about sports. They tend to be kids who are different for one reason or another.

 

[horribilisfan8184]

That's not what I'm saying at all, but you are partially on the right track. Bullies pick certain people: those who don't fight back. You can twist the truth any way you want if it makes you feel like a more compassionate or empathetic person, but nothing puts an end to bullying like a swift kick to their nuts.

All this really tells me is that you probably never experienced the isolation and intimidation that comes from actual bullying.

More often than not, it's not something that reciprocal violence or witty comebacks can so easily fix.

Wrong. It only took defending myself once in 6th grade and once in junior high and I never got bullied again. All this really tells me is you may not know the purpose of the self defense arts. Or the interest the girls have for guys who can stand up for themselves. That's a concept so simple even a caveman can understand it.
.

 

[alabamagrizzly]

All this really tells me is that you probably never experienced the isolation and intimidation that comes from actual bullying.

More often than not, it's not something that reciprocal violence or witty comebacks can so easily fix.

Wrong. It only took defending myself once in 6th grade and once in junior high and I never got bullied again. All this really tells me is you may not know the purpose of the self defense arts. Or the interest the girls have for guys who can stand up for themselves. That's a concept so simple even a caveman can understand it.
.

You’re gonna tell me this kids gonna be able to protect himself against 5 kids a foot taller than him? Don’t be an a s s and think violence can solve everything. Bullies generally travel in packs and are always much bigger and stronger then the little wimps they pick on.

 

[horribilisfan8184]

Wrong. It only took defending myself once in 6th grade and once in junior high and I never got bullied again. All this really tells me is you may not know the purpose of the self defense arts. Or the interest the girls have for guys who can stand up for themselves. That's a concept so simple even a caveman can understand it.
.

You’re gonna tell me this kids gonna be able to protect himself against 5 kids a foot taller than him? Don’t be an a s s and think violence can solve everything. Bullies generally travel in packs and are always much bigger and stronger then the little wimps they pick on.

So you missed the part where I said learn Krav Maga so you can defend yourself or others who are being bullied? So many cowards giving advice here. No wonder bullying is rising in the face of all the passive policies.

 

[ElrodGrizzly]

You’re gonna tell me this kids gonna be able to protect himself against 5 kids a foot taller than him? Don’t be an a s s and think violence can solve everything. Bullies generally travel in packs and are always much bigger and stronger then the little wimps they pick on.

So you missed the part where I said learn Krav Maga so you can defend yourself or others who are being bullied? So many cowards giving advice here. No wonder bullying is rising in the face of all the passive policies.

Dude, a little bit of Krav as a kid isn't going to make nearly the difference you say it does. As I said to you earlier, if the bully is a good wrestler, that Krav isn't going to help out like people who get paid to teach it will tell people it does. Like any other martial art or fighting system, it takes a lot of work to get good enough at it to overcome a bigger person. Maybe, MAYBE, jiu jitsu

 

[ElrodGrizzly]

And then what happens when the bigger, meaner kid gets up from the nut kick? It isn't a movie. There is always a next day and a next scene. In my experience, kids got picked on until they had more friends or bigger friends. Not everyone CAN fight back, and sending kids to TKD or Krav for the basics and then sending them out to fight a bigger, meaner kid will get them hurt.

I am sympathetic to SOME of your point. Everyone should learn how to defend themselves. I even teach people for free sometimes, or did in the past when I had free time. But we live in a society of rules and civility. I don't think the solution is to further breed that out of kids. You should be safe in school just like it is not acceptable to bully and attack people in the workplace. Period. Full stop. We aren't training Spartans, we are raising children to be healthy and successful members of a civil society.

Kids who know how to fight...don't get bullied more than once.

Get your kid in the local youth wtestling program. Problem solved quickly....

I agree, getting a kid into a wrestling program and getting them to stick with it would give them the best chance to defend themselves. But that isn't a long term solution for the overall issue, and if every kid is doing that, then we just have a lot rougher fights with everyone knowing how. For example, see Cobra Kai Season 2, final episode. There needs to be a much bigger enforcement kids who step out of line, so they don't grow up and end up getting them or somebody else killed.

And welcome back. I was a little worried about ya!

 

[SACCAT66]

You’re gonna tell me this kids gonna be able to protect himself against 5 kids a foot taller than him? Don’t be an a s s and think violence can solve everything. Bullies generally travel in packs and are always much bigger and stronger then the little wimps they pick on.

So you missed the part where I said learn Krav Maga so you can defend yourself or others who are being bullied? So many cowards giving advice here. No wonder bullying is rising in the face of all the passive policies.

Here is the thing.... Bullying USE to be face to face. If you wanted to say something to them, you had to say it to their face and then the ramifications would ramificate. NOW DAYS it isn't that simple. Social Media has changed the game. a group of kids can "Cyber Bully" kids to the point where the one receiving it believes he has no other option than to just end it. You can talk to your kids constantly about it, and they can trust everything you say, but kids know when you are at your weakest (normally when they know you are alone at night in your room going to bed) and that is when they attach you. Sending messages for you to kill yourself, and slur-mouthing you (my Freshman Daughters term) till you feel like nothing... Yes, you can confront those kids about it, but what if you are already socially awkward, and there are 6 of them (let's say... 4 of the 6 have signed football scholarships to play in College) and you don't have friends that will stand up to them. I am lucky with my daughter getting my personality. If someone calls her a "FAG" or a loser, she tells them to Fuck off, and normally gets detention because of it. I am fine her sticking up for herself. But not all kids can, or have the ability mentally to do that. THOSE are the kids that do need Administration and Parents to stand up for them, and shouldn't be afraid to say something... If they don't feel like the school cares, then you end up with a 6'2" skinny kid standing in your bedroom door at 2:00 in the morning crying his eyes out with an empty bottle of pain pills in his hand...

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Well said SAC. Too many people think “bully” means Scut Farkus, and pulling a Ralphie on him will end it. That’s not the bullying I think of when I think of bullying in modern times. The old “sticks and stones” saying can be the exact opposite to some kids when the words are constant and cruel.

The back in my day crowd won’t like this post, but I don’t give a fu*k. This is the modern form of bullying. In all the parent meetings I’ve been to, nobody talks about schoolyard fights because those can be dealt with pretty easily. It’s the sustained mental bullying that can lead to someone thinking he or she is worthless. That kid would probably rather get punched in the face if it made the other stuff go away.

 

[horribilisfan8184]

Well said SAC. Too many people think “bully” means Scut Farkus, and pulling a Ralphie on him will end it. That’s not the bullying I think of when I think of bullying in modern times. The old “sticks and stones” saying can be the exact opposite to some kids when the words are constant and cruel.

The back in my day crowd won’t like this post, but I don’t give a fu*k. This is the modern form of bullying. In all the parent meetings I’ve been to, nobody talks about schoolyard fights because those can be dealt with pretty easily. It’s the sustained mental bullying that can lead to someone thinking he or she is worthless. That kid would probably rather get punched in the face if it made the other stuff go away.

Or you could take away your kid's access to the social media bullying by phone. Just a thought for parents who aren't afraid of their kids.

 

[ElrodGrizzly]

Well said SAC. Too many people think “bully” means Scut Farkus, and pulling a Ralphie on him will end it. That’s not the bullying I think of when I think of bullying in modern times. The old “sticks and stones” saying can be the exact opposite to some kids when the words are constant and cruel.

The back in my day crowd won’t like this post, but I don’t give a fu*k. This is the modern form of bullying. In all the parent meetings I’ve been to, nobody talks about schoolyard fights because those can be dealt with pretty easily. It’s the sustained mental bullying that can lead to someone thinking he or she is worthless. That kid would probably rather get punched in the face if it made the other stuff go away.

Or you could take away your kid's access to the social media bullying by phone. Just a thought for parents who aren't afraid of their kids.

Man, I've always enjoyed you a lot, so I'm not trying to be a dick here, but when were you last raising kids?! You cannot possibly disconnect a kid from the digital world completely. Its how they get assignments for school, how all of their peers communicate socially, and the people I have seen who grew up sheltered from all things digital in the early 2000's are having a LOT of trouble functioning in the workplace. We just had to let go a person with great potential because they just actually couldn't use the digital tools. They were homeschooled by books and didn't get computer access till after high school, and they just couldn't functionally do my job.

We have passed the point where we can just "take away kids' access to social media" and still have them growing up to be a normal part of society.

 

[mthoopsfan]

Or you could take away your kid's access to the social media bullying by phone. Just a thought for parents who aren't afraid of their kids.

Man, I've always enjoyed you a lot, so I'm not trying to be a dick here, but when were you last raising kids?! You cannot possibly disconnect a kid from the digital world completely. Its how they get assignments for school, how all of their peers communicate socially, and the people I have seen who grew up sheltered from all things digital in the early 2000's are having a LOT of trouble functioning in the workplace. We just had to let go a person with great potential because they just actually couldn't use the digital tools. They were homeschooled by books and didn't get computer access till after high school, and they just couldn't functionally do my job.

We have passed the point where we can just "take away kids' access to social media" and still have them growing up to be a normal part of society.

Does in-person bullying with kids exist anymore? Some at early ages. My was an elementary school teacher. If she sees some of these posts, there will be a new poster, MrsPR.

 

[ElrodGrizzly]

Man, I've always enjoyed you a lot, so I'm not trying to be a dick here, but when were you last raising kids?! You cannot possibly disconnect a kid from the digital world completely. Its how they get assignments for school, how all of their peers communicate socially, and the people I have seen who grew up sheltered from all things digital in the early 2000's are having a LOT of trouble functioning in the workplace. We just had to let go a person with great potential because they just actually couldn't use the digital tools. They were homeschooled by books and didn't get computer access till after high school, and they just couldn't functionally do my job.

We have passed the point where we can just "take away kids' access to social media" and still have them growing up to be a normal part of society.

Does in-person bullying with kids exist anymore? Some at early ages. My was an elementary school teacher. If she sees some of these posts, there will be a new poster, MrsPR.

I don't believe I've had a chance to meet MrsPR, but I don't really think any of us want to see her angry....