U.S. DOE investigating UM Football

[Grizzoola]

i'm offended. i'm agreeing with you. this whole thing is bananas. there is simply nothing that has occured in the past or present to warrant this kind of scrutiny of um. nothing. this is nothing more than a witch hunt and it's repulsive. and if it wasn't bad enough already...now the damn president of the united states is involved! where will this flipping witch hunt end.

waste of time and money investigating something that doesn't need to be. fixing what isn't broken comes to mind.....

Precisely why the feds are investigating. They want to know if there has been a systemic ignoring of women's complaints about sexual assaults and rapes. Not only by UM, but by local law enforcement. This is not about just UM. I don't know how many women have complained to UM and law authorities and been "ignored." I don't know how many women have complained to the extent the DOJ felt it necessary to investigate. Apparently, enough.

The problem has become so serious, that many people question sending their daughters to UM, and even living in Missoula, itself. Yes, this is a women's issue, but because it is, doesn't mean it's not a serious issue. Relax. The investigation may indeed show UM & local law authorities did nothing wrong and have not shown a bias against women complaining about sexual assaults and rapes. We & the local media just have to shut up until the investigation has run its course and the results are announced, which I'm sure they will be.

 

[bisonboone11]

it's funny ALL the headlines say "investigation", but when you read what the feds are saying it's more of a review of the way sexual assults are reported and acted on by the police and um. :?:

Except if you read what Assistant Attorney General for the Civil Rights Division, Thomas Perez, said at a press conference. He refers to it as an investigation. Here is a quote from him:

"I am here to announce that the Civil Rights Division and the United States Attorney’s office are conducting a full investigation of the University of Montana, the University Office of Public Safety, the City of Missoula Police Department and the office of the Missoula County Attorney."

 

[PlayerRep]

it's funny ALL the headlines say "investigation", but when you read what the feds are saying it's more of a review of the way sexual assults are reported and acted on by the police and um. :?:

in the end they'll reveal their findings, give their corrective actions and follow-up to make sure they're put in place. this really isn't a big deal, but if people try to stonewall (like vanvalkenburg is acting) or if they find something is criminal that could all change. the only way i see that happening is if someone blows the whistle. u of m and the city have had ample time to clean up most of their problems.

Here's yet another example of your faulty thinking and analysis. Van Valkenberg has given no indication whatsoever that he wants to "stonewall" anything. In fact, to the contrary, he said his office would cooperate, actually said they had no choice but to cooperate. How can you say he's wanted to stonewall? Just because he isn't happy that DOJ has started an investigation believed to be unprecedented, and refuses to give any indication of what specific things or allegations that they think wasn't done right, doesn't mean he's stonewalling. I applaud Van Valkenberg for what he said.

Blows the whistle? What are you talking about? The US has to show that there was been a systematic violation of Constitutional rights of women, i.e. discrimination against women in not adequately pursuing investigations of sexual assault. This is investigation isn't about making a mistake here and there in an investigation; it's about serious and continuous violations of the 14th amendment and discrimination against women.

Of all places to start an investigation like this. Missoula MT, a liberal town that believes in and supports the rights of all people, especially women. Against a good county attorney's office led by what I believe is a democrat and fairly liberal county prosecutor, who's long-time asst prosecutor was a well-regarded and well-respected woman. At least in the past, I believe a majority of county prosecutors were women. There is no way that the Missoula county prosecutors office has discriminated against women by not adequately pursuing sexual assault allegations, let alone doing this on a systematic basis that would violate the US Constitution.

 

[tnt]

Keep in mind though this goes back to last summer. The involvement of the DOJ may not be so benign as you think. The DOE did an actual investigation last summer and found that not only had the University misreported campus crime as required by the Clery act they had failed to totally report others (sexual assault) For this there is a possible fine of $27,500.00 per occurance. Worse they found no one really knew HOW to report sexual assault, something Engstrom has "tried" to fix. The DOE final report is coming out in August.

My favorite University Official (whom Engstrom seriously demoted - one of the good things he's done firing him would be better) Jim Foley even after everything that has happened doesn't know how it works and he is in charge of external communication (used to be Executive vice-president)

Recently Recently, he told the Missoulian that Lucy France was the only person who could speak about federally mandated timely warnings sent to the campus after violent crimes. In fact, France investigates cases of Title IX discrimination and harassment; she’s not tasked with Clery Act compliance although she can recommend a warning for a sexual assault she's learned about. The Director of Public Safety and the Vice President of Administration and Finance are actually tasked with deciding when to send out timely notifications.

But the Good news is that Engstroms (initial) Contract (initial) is up in June.

What I'm trying to say is that this mess may not be as cleanly solved as it should....

BTW Player Rep FORMER Chief Deputy Missoula County Attorney Kirsten Pabst LaCroix resigned to go into private Practice some time ago....... (Feb I think) Do you have any clue why she suddenly left to take care of her Dogs?

 

[getgrizzy]

it's funny ALL the headlines say "investigation", but when you read what the feds are saying it's more of a review of the way sexual assults are reported and acted on by the police and um. :?:

in the end they'll reveal their findings, give their corrective actions and follow-up to make sure they're put in place. this really isn't a big deal, but if people try to stonewall (like vanvalkenburg is acting) or if they find something is criminal that could all change. the only way i see that happening is if someone blows the whistle. u of m and the city have had ample time to clean up most of their problems.

Here's yet another example of your faulty thinking and analysis. Van Valkenberg has given no indication whatsoever that he wants to "stonewall" anything. In fact, to the contrary, he said his office would cooperate, actually said they had no choice but to cooperate. How can you say he's wanted to stonewall? Just because he isn't happy that DOJ has started an investigation believed to be unprecedented, and refuses to give any indication of what specific things or allegations that they think wasn't done right, doesn't mean he's stonewalling. I applaud Van Valkenberg for what he said.

Blows the whistle? What are you talking about? The US has to show that there was been a systematic violation of Constitutional rights of women, i.e. discrimination against women in not adequately pursuing investigations of sexual assault. This is investigation isn't about making a mistake here and there in an investigation; it's about serious and continuous violations of the 14th amendment and discrimination against women.

Of all places to start an investigation like this. Missoula MT, a liberal town that believes in and supports the rights of all people, especially women. Against a good county attorney's office led by what I believe is a democrat and fairly liberal county prosecutor, who's long-time asst prosecutor was a well-regarded and well-respected woman. At least in the past, I believe a majority of county prosecutors were women. There is no way that the Missoula county prosecutors office has discriminated against women by not adequately pursuing sexual assault allegations, let alone doing this on a systematic basis that would violate the US Constitution.

wow, your inability to read has hit a new low or ability to muddy a discussion hits a new peak. judging by the video vanvalkenburg sounds like he'd definitely like to stonewall this thing, not only that, but he seems to not know what it's about. he's acts pissed, but it just makes him look lost. he's embarrassed and it shows in that video. if anything vanvalkenburg is making a routine investigation look like it might need to go deeper. if they do find anything that needs to be criminally investigated it might end up being due to vanvalkenburg suspicious behavior.

a whistle blower is someone that provides inside information about wrongdoing within an organization. for instance a detective that tells the investigators that vanvalkenburg blew off evidence that a crime had been commited because he knew the accused. ffs re-read the sentence now that i've told you what one is and you might get it.

actually the fact that missoula is a liberal town makes it a perfect place to do this. that way no one, unless they're a complete moron, thinks it's being done for political reasons. hellooooo?!!! earth to p.r., earth to p.r.

 

[LakGriz]

yes, indeed, VanValkenberg is a democrat; served at least a couple of terms in the state senate, at one time Senate majority leader, I think.

His wife Carol (I think they're still married) was a J-school professor, and perhaps an interim dean, as well.

they have a son Brian, I think it is, who walked on the football team, maybe came back as redshirt freshman but saw little (if any) action and quit. Now he's a sportswriter for Baltimore Sun and covers horse racing, among other things.

 

[Grizzoola]

But the Good news is that Engstroms (initial) Contract (initial) is up in June.

The Regents could well be taking a close look at renewing his contract. As a prodigy of George Dennison, nonrenewal could well signal the end of the 20-year era of Dennison, and his hold on the MT University System, which has been good in some ways and not in others. I'm disappointed, aside from this controversy, that Engstrom does not have the vision to depart from the trajectory Dennison laid out for UM and the university system. It may be time for really new blood in UM administration.

 

[zengriz]

...royce could better serve the athletic dept...
...az a cone or a blocking dummy...
...in my humble opinion...

... ...

 

[colsteveaustin]

I applaud Van Valkenberg for what he said.

Well of course you do. Is anyone here surprised at all? Fredo could have issued a statement proclaiming May 4th Mo County Basement Records Arson Day and you would find a way to mark it as a superb and glorious moment.

Anyone who saw that conference/read the transcript had to immediately wonder why this guy came across as someone who was about to fail a polygraph on Murray while Foley was seen as sane.

"the heavy hand of the federal government..."

Bravo, Fredo. That is just the sort of thing you want to spew as your crew is being investigated by guys with actual bats for severe hackage, blinder spotting, and general incompetence. Rep's nod is yet another comical OK in a long list of inane defenses of an """allegedly""" brutally corrupt program and system.

 

[grizzpaw]

But the Good news is that Engstroms (initial) Contract (initial) is up in June.

The Regents could well be taking a close look at renewing his contract. As a prodigy of George Dennison, nonrenewal could well signal the end of the 20-year era of Dennison, and his hold on the MT University System, which has been good in some ways and not in others. I'm disappointed, aside from this controversy, that Engstrom does not have the vision to depart from the trajectory Dennison laid out for UM and the university system. It may be time for really new blood in UM administration.

it's LONG PAST DUE for new blood! :clap: :thumb:

 

[ilovethecats]

Fredo could have issued a statement proclaiming May 4th Mo County Basement Records Arson Day.

:lol:

 

[Grizzoola]

But the Good news is that Engstroms (initial) Contract (initial) is up in June.

The Regents could well be taking a close look at renewing his contract. As a prodigy of George Dennison, nonrenewal could well signal the end of the 20-year era of Dennison, and his hold on the MT University System, which has been good in some ways and not in others. I'm disappointed, aside from this controversy, that Engstrom does not have the vision to depart from the trajectory Dennison laid out for UM and the university system. It may be time for really new blood in UM administration.

it's LONG PAST DUE for new blood! :clap: :thumb:

I doubt that the Regents will have the guts to let Engstrom go, under any circumstances, because without Dennison telling them what to do, they will do nothing, not only in this situation, but throughout the MT higher ed. system.

 

[Tokyogriz]

People need to write the regents, call them, email them, whatever makes them realize many of us want Royce Engstrom GONE!

Leadership starts at the top time for Royce to actually be a leader and step down for his own failings instead of trying to blame others.

Regent Clay Christian from Missoula seems to have a love affair with Royce. Let that man know what you think of Royce.

 

[first11]

Current leader of UM handed a mess from our former 'leader'...
(gonna take a while to crawl out of this one!)

no matter who or whom is at top we have to deal with this, Royce happens to be the first at the scene of the accident...

bye the bye, our former Pres. gets an old building in his name now...the UT on campus is adorned with his name, GD had an ediface complex and now gets his reward with his and his wifes names on the front!!

 

[Tokyogriz]

If Royce hadnt pulled the BS move of firing Oday and Pflu because of this trainwreck which is actually a UM wide issue not the fault of the AD or football coach I would agree. However his willilngness to destroy the lives of Oday, Pflu and thier families to protect his own ass means he needs to go.

 

[PlayerRep]

Keep in mind though this goes back to last summer. The involvement of the DOJ may not be so benign as you think. The DOE did an actual investigation last summer and found that not only had the University misreported campus crime as required by the Clery act they had failed to totally report others (sexual assault) For this there is a possible fine of $27,500.00 per occurance. Worse they found no one really knew HOW to report sexual assault, something Engstrom has "tried" to fix. The DOE final report is coming out in August.

My favorite University Official (whom Engstrom seriously demoted - one of the good things he's done firing him would be better) Jim Foley even after everything that has happened doesn't know how it works and he is in charge of external communication (used to be Executive vice-president)

Recently Recently, he told the Missoulian that Lucy France was the only person who could speak about federally mandated timely warnings sent to the campus after violent crimes. In fact, France investigates cases of Title IX discrimination and harassment; she’s not tasked with Clery Act compliance although she can recommend a warning for a sexual assault she's learned about. The Director of Public Safety and the Vice President of Administration and Finance are actually tasked with deciding when to send out timely notifications.

But the Good news is that Engstroms (initial) Contract (initial) is up in June.

What I'm trying to say is that this mess may not be as cleanly solved as it should....

BTW Player Rep FORMER Chief Deputy Missoula County Attorney Kirsten Pabst LaCroix resigned to go into private Practice some time ago....... (Feb I think) Do you have any clue why she suddenly left to take care of her Dogs?

You really are a fountain of misinformation.

1. Please show us a link to the supposed DOE investigation and findings. An investigation already done last summer is going to come out in August a year later? No way.

2. Jim Foley has been "demoted". Where's your source for that? He's still the senior vp of the university, must like he has been all along.

3. You have no clue why LaCroix decided to retire from her long-time position as asst county attorney. Below is what the Missoulian reported. She left to start her own law practice. She probably wanted to be able to make more money, and do something a bit different. For you to make insinuations like this, is very inappropriate.

"After 18 years, LaCroix is leaving to pursue a solo legal practice.

“She’s been a very important member of our staff. We’ll certainly miss her,” said Van Valkenburg, who noted he was surprised by LaCroix’s decision.

LaCroix said the move is equal parts career choice and quality of life call. At 44, she’s at mid-career and “if I wait another 10 years, it’ll be too late. I might as well take the leap while I’m at still at the top of my game.”

Besides, she said last week, she can be more flexible in a solo practice. “I want to focus on my family and horses and dogs,” LaCroix said. “I don’t think anything is more important than those relationships with the meaningful people in your life.”
http://missoulian.com/news/local/db80cd48-60f4-11e1-a0e6-001871e3ce6c.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

4. You are making defamatory statements about these people. You may want to be more careful.

 

[grizcountry420]

If Royce hadnt pulled the BS move of firing Oday and Pflu because of this trainwreck which is actually a UM wide issue not the fault of the AD or football coach I would agree. However his willilngness to destroy the lives of Oday, Pflu and thier families to protect his own ass means he needs to go.

*******their

 

[restorethegriz]

Tokyo,
Do you really believe that Pflu and O'Day and their family's lives have been destroyed?

 

[Tokyogriz]

if you were the AD or head coach at the University of Montana and you got fired for supposedly being responsible for creating an enviroment that condones RAPES how would your future career prospects look and what would it do to your family?

However you wish to phrase it the lives of Oday and Pflus families are very severely affected by this. It is damaging and will have lasting effects. Their lives are not over by any stretch but this will damage the careers of both men and you damn well know it.

 

[tnt]

Whats defamatory player Rep?

You said Freds long time assistant was a woman/ problem is his long time assitant isn't she has quit.

One of Engstroms first moves was to change scale back back Foley’s broad authority under Dennison as Executive Vice President down to Vice President of External Communications. Sounds like a demotion to me. At least its one the faculty is happy about....

Tell me seriously you are are not so out of touch you didn't know about last summers visit and the deficiencies the University became aware of in the course of the visit and has been working to correct. Its been all over and was even reffered to in the Barz report (and arguably part of the decision to have the independent investigation) or that the matter hasn't been discussed in the minute of several reagents meetings. Heres a mostly accurate article to help you on your way in your journey of enlightenment:

http://www.montanakaimin.com/news/um-crime-reporting-flawed-1.2860731#.T6LSudl0SF_" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Don't know why Lacroix quit (and didn't say I did) but the timing was interesting and out of the blue and less than a week after the office was defending their civil rights record to of all people Dusty Deschamps But if she thinks she will have more time for her dogs and family while trying to establish a private practice, thats rather naive.

Glad to know you have a new word at your disposal - defamatory, I have always been impressed with Lawyer talk. it takes bull shit to a much higher level doesn't it especially when you are so busy shooting from the hip as you look the bigger fool. High School debate was a long time ago get over it.


But really you ought to be nicer to me I'm about the only guy left who will will play with you., but even I'm weary of leagalese when you simply haven't got a clue what you are talking about