This Will Impact UM and Other Western Teams.

[PlayerRep]

Not sure what difference it makes. We have 13 teams in our conference. Honestly we shouldn't have to look anywhere else for non conference games beyond the "conference" teams we're not playing that year. If we'd scheduled Weber St. instead of CWU we wouldn't be so concerned about winning out...

Or if we'd scheduled Weber instead of Wyo. or NDSU. Same result.

 

[Robsnotes4u]

Playing conference opponents for your non-conference games does have its benefits. There is a drawback also.
1. Scheduling only your conference teams leads to a more closed environment
2. Scheduling outside of the conference gives a clearer picture of SOS across the country.

This year Montana could be up against a team such as Liberty for playoff selection. If you play an OOC with them, hence their network of games, then anyone in their conference could be compared SOS, SRS, etc., to the BSC. An SOS of 60 in one conference would be equal to a 60 in their conference, and the conferences they play. A huge benefit come selection time for the playoffs.

It might be best, from a playoff selection standpoint, to schedule OOC FCS teams.

All these teams (UND, UCD, SUU, CP) were OOC games 5 years ago. What's the difference?

I will put it in different terms for you.

Say you live in Westby, MT. You are the top dog in the pool world, there nobody can beat you. The perception is you are amazing, your rating in everyone's eye is 100. Everyone in your league is rated according to you, as that is all we have.

You listen to how good you are so you head to the state tourney for 8 ball. Not one person in your league in Westby has ever attended. It is a closed environment.

Your first match you draw Jeff Boucher, arguably the best in Montana from Kalispell. He demolishes you, and it affects your rating. Later on you play Wade Thompson from Great Falls, same result. You then play in the second chance bracket getting beat by TR Olson from Havre, and Jim Winters from Billings. (Bad draw as they are all the top players in Montana)

Your new rating is a 60. You go back home. The guy who was an 80 before you left is no longer an 80, but maybe a 40. Everything is adjusted an now correct. Now you can compare yourself to anyone across the state that is involved in the system You played 4 different leagues, Kalispell, Great Falls, Havre, and Billings.

Now the perception of you being a 100 is gone, the reality is you are an 80, and every game everyone plays will affect your rating if you don't even play.

Yes and in this scenario, Jeff has played the best in United States, as he does travel to National tourneys, and has played SVB. (true)

Playing FCS games outside gives you the most realistic picture of where you sit on the FCS stage.

Edit: I am by no means saying there are not benefits to playing the conference opponents. In my opinion, for playoff selection, it would have been better playing FCS.

 

[PlayerRep]

Playing a D2 team is whats got us fighting for our playoff lives in the first place.

Same with playing Wyo. and NDSU.

 

[PlayerRep]

I will also add that UM scheduling both Wyoming and NDSU may have been a bigger mistake than scheduling CWU. They would have better served to only schedule 1 of those games and a game against a more middle of the road FCS team.

I knew we would eventually agree on something.

 

[grizindabox]

Actually, whether the Griz played CWU or Weber or USD, they would still have to win their last 2 games to get 8 wins...not sure it would make a big difference. And I know, everyone will point out that the D2 win is pretty much ignored, but the 8 in the "W" column still looks better than a 7 and a 7-5 Griz team would not be in the playoffs. If the CWU game is going to be a huge factor, the Griz are probably in trouble even if they do win the last 2 games.

But Griz are really just 5-4, since the CWU win doesn't "count".

My point being, with the way other games played out, that no matter who they played, they would have to win their last 2 games to have a chance. The Griz will get considered with 8 wins, and yes, 8 wins without a D2 would be better. If we want to assume that the CWU will be worth nothing, than the Griz are already dead in the water. We should also consider, that if the Griz played someone other than CWU, they could have lost. So it is not as easy to just say that they should have played someone different, but it would be good to hope they schedule differently in the future.

If the CWU game had been played against a FCS team and the Griz had won, then the Griz would truly be a 'lock' at 8-4. They'd likely also get a higher seed. As it stands now, while the Griz are likely to be in the playoffs at 8-4, there are certainly scenarios where they don't make it.

If you read my post, that is what I said.

 

[grizindabox]

I will also add that UM scheduling both Wyoming and NDSU may have been a bigger mistake than scheduling CWU. They would have better served to only schedule 1 of those games and a game against a more middle of the road FCS team.

I knew we would eventually agree on something.

I don't always disagree with your premise, but I always disagree with the arrogant douchy way you post. I will wait for you the crunch some numbers, locate some stats, and quote a few articles to discredit my belief about your douchyness.

 

[Walkon79]

This will definitely have an impact. Teams that typically play a D2 would now lose a home game every two years. Basically if there are no D2's left to schedule, UM would either have to pay a lot more $ for a FCS team rather than a D2 for a one game trip to missoula or schedule a home and home with another FCS school. Most teams will probably opt for the home/home, which means 1 less game every other year in Missoula...

Montana is probably one of the few schools that can justify paying a FCS school for a one time game, most other Big Sky schools go the route of a home/home deal.

It doesn't necessarily mean one less home game every year in Missoula. It means you have to have alternating home and home agreements for two non conference games on your schedule. It could be fine if you don't sell out for a bodybag game with an FBS school, which is never going to play at your campus.

What did EWU get paid for its game in Bozeman this year?

I don't believe we paid EWU anything because of the home and home arrangement. We did pay UCA (around $100,000 I think), for the one-game deal with no return trip.

 

[grizindabox]

This will definitely have an impact. Teams that typically play a D2 would now lose a home game every two years. Basically if there are no D2's left to schedule, UM would either have to pay a lot more $ for a FCS team rather than a D2 for a one game trip to missoula or schedule a home and home with another FCS school. Most teams will probably opt for the home/home, which means 1 less game every other year in Missoula...

Montana is probably one of the few schools that can justify paying a FCS school for a one time game, most other Big Sky schools go the route of a home/home deal.

It doesn't necessarily mean one less home game every year in Missoula. It means you have to have alternating home and home agreements for two non conference games on your schedule. It could be fine if you don't sell out for a bodybag game with an FBS school, which is never going to play at your campus.

What did EWU get paid for its game in Bozeman this year?

I don't believe we paid EWU anything because of the home and home arrangement. We did pay UCA (around $100,000 I think), for the one-game deal with no return trip.

EWU and MSU decided to handle the finances as if it was a conference game.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Playing conference opponents for your non-conference games does have its benefits. There is a drawback also.
1. Scheduling only your conference teams leads to a more closed environment
2. Scheduling outside of the conference gives a clearer picture of SOS across the country.

This year Montana could be up against a team such as Liberty for playoff selection. If you play an OOC with them, hence their network of games, then anyone in their conference could be compared SOS, SRS, etc., to the BSC. An SOS of 60 in one conference would be equal to a 60 in their conference, and the conferences they play. A huge benefit come selection time for the playoffs.

It might be best, from a playoff selection standpoint, to schedule OOC FCS teams.

All these teams (UND, UCD, SUU, CP) were OOC games 5 years ago. What's the difference?

I will put it in different terms for you.

Say you live in Westby, MT. You are the top dog in the pool world, there nobody can beat you. The perception is you are amazing, your rating in everyone's eye is 100. Everyone in your league is rated according to you, as that is all we have.

You listen to how good you are so you head to the state tourney for 8 ball. Not one person in your league in Westby has ever attended. It is a closed environment.

Your first match you draw Jeff Boucher, arguably the best in Montana from Kalispell. He demolishes you, and it affects your rating. Later on you play Wade Thompson from Great Falls, same result. You then play in the second chance bracket getting beat by TR Olson from Havre, and Jim Winters from Billings. (Bad draw as they are all the top players in Montana)

Your new rating is a 60. You go back home. The guy who was an 80 before you left is no longer an 80, but maybe a 40. Everything is adjusted an now correct. Now you can compare yourself to anyone across the state that is involved in the system You played 4 different leagues, Kalispell, Great Falls, Havre, and Billings.

Now the perception of you being a 100 is gone, the reality is you are an 80, and every game everyone plays will affect your rating if you don't even play.

Yes and in this scenario, Jeff has played the best in United States, as he does travel to National tourneys, and has played SVB. (true)

Playing FCS games outside gives you the most realistic picture of where you sit on the FCS stage.

Edit: I am by no means saying there are not benefits to playing the conference opponents. In my opinion, for playoff selection, it would have been better playing FCS.

That's great, if we only played NDSU, Coastal, UNH and McNeese in OOC games....but we don't. We also play teams like USD, the doormat of MVFC...we took the 3x nat'l champ to the wire, and then were taken to the wire by the doormat of their same conference...what did we learn from that?

 

[Robsnotes4u]

Scheduling has got to be a bitch. Everyone talks about Weber. What if the Griz would have scheduled Idaho State. At the time of making the schedule that would have been thought of as an easy win.

Today, it could be a win, would have got the Griz in the Playoffs, and maybe a chance at a conference title. The flip side isn't good.

Not an easy task trying to predict the future.

 

[grizpack]

This will definitely have an impact. Teams that typically play a D2 would now lose a home game every two years. Basically if there are no D2's left to schedule, UM would either have to pay a lot more $ for a FCS team rather than a D2 for a one game trip to missoula or schedule a home and home with another FCS school. Most teams will probably opt for the home/home, which means 1 less game every other year in Missoula...

Montana is probably one of the few schools that can justify paying a FCS school for a one time game, most other Big Sky schools go the route of a home/home deal.

EWU will still be able to schedule UM-Western again. They are a Frontier Conference NAIA school.......

 

[AZGrizFan]

Scheduling has got to be a bitch. Everyone talks about Weber. What if the Griz would have scheduled Idaho State. At the time of making the schedule that would have been thought of as an easy win.

Today, it could be a win, would have got the Griz in the Playoffs, and maybe a chance at a conference title. The flip side isn't good.

Not an easy task trying to predict the future.

Agreed 100%.BUUUUUUUUUUUUUT, we KNEW NDSU was going to be tough, we KNEW any FBS was going to be tough, and to scehdule BOTH, in addition to a non-counter, was just foolish, IMHO.

 

[Robsnotes4u]

Playing conference opponents for your non-conference games does have its benefits. There is a drawback also.
1. Scheduling only your conference teams leads to a more closed environment
2. Scheduling outside of the conference gives a clearer picture of SOS across the country.

This year Montana could be up against a team such as Liberty for playoff selection. If you play an OOC with them, hence their network of games, then anyone in their conference could be compared SOS, SRS, etc., to the BSC. An SOS of 60 in one conference would be equal to a 60 in their conference, and the conferences they play. A huge benefit come selection time for the playoffs.

It might be best, from a playoff selection standpoint, to schedule OOC FCS teams.

All these teams (UND, UCD, SUU, CP) were OOC games 5 years ago. What's the difference?

I will put it in different terms for you.

Say you live in Westby, MT. You are the top dog in the pool world, there nobody can beat you. The perception is you are amazing, your rating in everyone's eye is 100. Everyone in your league is rated according to you, as that is all we have.

You listen to how good you are so you head to the state tourney for 8 ball. Not one person in your league in Westby has ever attended. It is a closed environment.

Your first match you draw Jeff Boucher, arguably the best in Montana from Kalispell. He demolishes you, and it affects your rating. Later on you play Wade Thompson from Great Falls, same result. You then play in the second chance bracket getting beat by TR Olson from Havre, and Jim Winters from Billings. (Bad draw as they are all the top players in Montana)

Your new rating is a 60. You go back home. The guy who was an 80 before you left is no longer an 80, but maybe a 40. Everything is adjusted an now correct. Now you can compare yourself to anyone across the state that is involved in the system You played 4 different leagues, Kalispell, Great Falls, Havre, and Billings.

Now the perception of you being a 100 is gone, the reality is you are an 80, and every game everyone plays will affect your rating if you don't even play.

Yes and in this scenario, Jeff has played the best in United States, as he does travel to National tourneys, and has played SVB. (true)

Playing FCS games outside gives you the most realistic picture of where you sit on the FCS stage.

Edit: I am by no means saying there are not benefits to playing the conference opponents. In my opinion, for playoff selection, it would have been better playing FCS.

That's great, if we only played NDSU, Coastal, UNH and McNeese in OOC games....but we don't. We also play teams like USD, the doormat of MVFC...we took the 3x nat'l champ to the wire, and then were taken to the wire by the doormat of their same conference...what did we learn from that?

One is a win, one is a loss. So you could say you are somewhere in the middle of where their ratings are. It isn't about playing the top teams in those conferences. Playing USD, you still get help from their SOS (depending on how many levels deep the SOS goes). What gives you the best percentage of being successful?
1. Playing the best team, lessor odds of winning, and get the SOS of the conference.
2. Playing a middle team, better odds of winning, and get the SOS of the conference.

Why play two teams from the same conference, other than expense/revenue? If you play a team out East that plays other teams out East from different conferences, your position will be defined. If you care about making the playoffs.

How would it look right now if you replaced the Central Washington game with Liberty, and you beat Liberty?
Liberty has played Richmond (look at their schedule), and will play Coastal Carolina to end the season. How much better would your resume look than it is does right now? Not only would the Griz have one more D1 win, but a better SOS, after beating MSU would be a lock at 8-4. 8 D1 wins, with a better SOS.

 

[Robsnotes4u]

Scheduling has got to be a bitch. Everyone talks about Weber. What if the Griz would have scheduled Idaho State. At the time of making the schedule that would have been thought of as an easy win.

Today, it could be a win, would have got the Griz in the Playoffs, and maybe a chance at a conference title. The flip side isn't good.

Not an easy task trying to predict the future.

Agreed 100%.BUUUUUUUUUUUUUT, we KNEW NDSU was going to be tough, we KNEW any FBS was going to be tough, and to scehdule BOTH, in addition to a non-counter, was just foolish, IMHO.

I agree.

 

[marceagfan5]

This will definitely have an impact. Teams that typically play a D2 would now lose a home game every two years. Basically if there are no D2's left to schedule, UM would either have to pay a lot more $ for a FCS team rather than a D2 for a one game trip to missoula or schedule a home and home with another FCS school. Most teams will probably opt for the home/home, which means 1 less game every other year in Missoula...

Montana is probably one of the few schools that can justify paying a FCS school for a one time game, most other Big Sky schools go the route of a home/home deal.

EWU will still be able to schedule UM-Western again. They are a Frontier Conference NAIA school.......

Haha, at least moving forward, Eastern's schedules are booked with just FCS and FBS schools out of conference, no D2's in sight for the next few years.... Unless the NCAA grants another week for FCS schools and a 12th game is scheduled....

 

[AZGrizFan]

How would it look right now if you replaced the Central Washington game with Liberty, and you beat Liberty?

Liberty has played Richmond (look at their schedule), and will play Coastal Carolina to end the season. How much better would your resume look than it is does right now? Not only would the Griz have one more D1 win, but a better SOS, after beating MSU would be a lock at 8-4. 8 D1 wins, with a better SOS.

Playing Marist would have been preferrable to playing CWU from an SOS standpoint. Playing San Diego. Playing Savannah State. Incarnate Word. Houston Baptist. You name it...they're ALL better for our SOS than CWU. ANd all would be guaranteed wins.

 

[Yukon]

always wanted to see an Ivy team come to town.

 

[Robsnotes4u]

How would it look right now if you replaced the Central Washington game with Liberty, and you beat Liberty?

Liberty has played Richmond (look at their schedule), and will play Coastal Carolina to end the season. How much better would your resume look than it is does right now? Not only would the Griz have one more D1 win, but a better SOS, after beating MSU would be a lock at 8-4. 8 D1 wins, with a better SOS.

Playing Marist would have been preferrable to playing CWU from an SOS standpoint. Playing San Diego. Playing Savannah State. Incarnate Word. Houston Baptist. You name it...they're ALL better for our SOS than CWU. ANd all would be guaranteed wins.

I agree the D2 game hurts, based on the NDSU and Wyoming games. Personally, I wish teams would only play in their division.

 

[get'em_griz]

How would it look right now if you replaced the Central Washington game with Liberty, and you beat Liberty?

Liberty has played Richmond (look at their schedule), and will play Coastal Carolina to end the season. How much better would your resume look than it is does right now? Not only would the Griz have one more D1 win, but a better SOS, after beating MSU would be a lock at 8-4. 8 D1 wins, with a better SOS.

Playing Marist would have been preferrable to playing CWU from an SOS standpoint. Playing San Diego. Playing Savannah State. Incarnate Word. Houston Baptist. You name it...they're ALL better for our SOS than CWU. ANd all would be guaranteed wins.

I agree the D2 game hurts, based on the NDSU and Wyoming games. Personally, I wish teams would only play in their division.

Unfortunately for 95% of the FCS, that isn't an option. Big FBS money-bag games make up for an entire year's worth of revenue for many FCS teams.

 

['68griz]

How would it look right now if you replaced the Central Washington game with Liberty, and you beat Liberty?

Liberty has played Richmond (look at their schedule), and will play Coastal Carolina to end the season. How much better would your resume look than it is does right now? Not only would the Griz have one more D1 win, but a better SOS, after beating MSU would be a lock at 8-4. 8 D1 wins, with a better SOS.

Playing Marist would have been preferrable to playing CWU from an SOS standpoint. Playing San Diego. Playing Savannah State. Incarnate Word. Houston Baptist. You name it...they're ALL better for our SOS than CWU. ANd all would be guaranteed wins.

I agree the D2 game hurts, based on the NDSU and Wyoming games. Personally, I wish teams would only play in their division.

I rarely agree with you, Rob, but, on this note, we are in total agreement. I always laugh at the people who don't want UM to play a Div. II school, but always want to play an FBS school -- IMO, you can't have it both ways.