The real issue with Hauck isn't player misbehavior...

[Catsrgrood]

He's not a fan at any level. He's a former Kaimin reporter and now J-school professor. His agenda and dishonesty stuck out immediately. Funny that idiots like yourself hook on with dishonest posters like this joker.

Man PR is a savage. Remind me not to piss you off too badly

I'm not pissed off at all, but don't like dishonest people.

Oh don't get me wrong, I like and appreciate everything that you did here. There are a lot of "posers" who post here with specific agendas bt try to act like they are innocent. You steam rolled this guy and he deserved it IMO. Keep up the good fight man.

Just curious, are you saying he steamrolled me? Or the op throughout this whole thread? Because I think that PR had some facts and some serious rebuttals to the op, I didn’t necessarily agree with all of it, but that’s beside the point. As far as steamrolling me? I don’t see it. I didn’t really have a lot of input on this thread myself, I just found it interesting and kind of funny how dead set PR was on calling this dude out. So there really wasn’t much to steamroll.

 

[jtgriz2]

Of course written by a Gazette writer...didn’t make front page on Missoulian...

http://missoulian.com/sports/college/big-sky-conference/university-of-montana/ex-montana-football-players-advocate-for-bobby-hauck-s-return/article_d17749ca-e99d-58eb-b8c9-08dcfa0c2aef.html#tracking-source=home-latest-1

 

[Fahque]

you are reading more into my post than what is there. my points were that 1) not spelling 'read' doesn't mean the guy didn't know or play for him, and 2) "some" people won't like him just because of his reasoning, which seem to be the basis for saying he's lying about being a player, etc, not the misspelling. i just happened to hit the quote on your post because you said he was "cold-ass busted", which he isn't. and no, i didn't read your earlier post. sorry, guess i didn't know that was a requirement for using this board.

argh, read my latest above post. Kevin Van V. lied about playing for Coach Read, and also lied about being a Kaimin apologist. Do you have the honestly and integrity to admit that he did that? He misspelled Read's name because he never played for Read.

He is completely biased about Hauck and the Kaimin reporter/Hauck matter. He also appears to have lied about the Kaimin having multiple witness accounts, on the record, about the Johnson/Swink matter. I recall the article. They had one witness, who I was told was completely drunk, who said one of the players kicked the kid.

I assume you are still a professor. Do you condone ad junct professors and journalists lying like this poster just did? I can't imagine that you do.

He said he was recruited by Read and played under Dennehy

No, this is what he said originally, when asked

Playerrep: "Who was your coach?

Post by Yossarian3345 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:19 pm

Reed and Dennehy."

The question was not who recruited you.

Are you going to say he wasn't/isn't a Kaimin apologist too, which he denied? Jeez, I can't believe how dishonest some of you are.

Quit being such an asshole, I was just telling you what he said in this thread

 

[HookedonGriz]

Man PR is a savage. Remind me not to piss you off too badly

I'm not pissed off at all, but don't like dishonest people.

Oh don't get me wrong, I like and appreciate everything that you did here. There are a lot of "posers" who post here with specific agendas bt try to act like they are innocent. You steam rolled this guy and he deserved it IMO. Keep up the good fight man.

Just curious, are you saying he steamrolled me? Or the op throughout this whole thread? Because I think that PR had some facts and some serious rebuttals to the op, I didn’t necessarily agree with all of it, but that’s beside the point. As far as steamrolling me? I don’t see it. I didn’t really have a lot of input on this thread myself, I just found it interesting and kind of funny how dead set PR was on calling this dude out. So there really wasn’t much to steamroll.

No not you.

 

[PlayerRep]

argh, read my latest above post. Kevin Van V. lied about playing for Coach Read, and also lied about being a Kaimin apologist. Do you have the honestly and integrity to admit that he did that? He misspelled Read's name because he never played for Read.

He is completely biased about Hauck and the Kaimin reporter/Hauck matter. He also appears to have lied about the Kaimin having multiple witness accounts, on the record, about the Johnson/Swink matter. I recall the article. They had one witness, who I was told was completely drunk, who said one of the players kicked the kid.

I assume you are still a professor. Do you condone ad junct professors and journalists lying like this poster just did? I can't imagine that you do.

He said he was recruited by Read and played under Dennehy

No, this is what he said originally, when asked

Playerrep: "Who was your coach?

Post by Yossarian3345 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:19 pm

Reed and Dennehy."

The question was not who recruited you.

Are you going to say he wasn't/isn't a Kaimin apologist too, which he denied? Jeez, I can't believe how dishonest some of you are.

Quit being such an asshole, I was just telling you what he said in this thread

And, I was just telling you what he said in the thread, and I can do that without going on to call you an asshole.

 

[PlayerRep]

To summarize, while it took awhile to figure out where the OP was coming from, we eventually did. This helped understand what he was saying, and to see that, while he was going to support the Kaimin and perhaps the Missoulian to some extent, he wasn't coming with a big axe to grind. I find that new posters who arrive like the OP did, often do have big hidden agendas or big axes to grind. There was actually some good discussion along the way. The OP is articulate and writes well. While I don't agree with much of what he said, I'm fine with what he said and the discussion. Again, knowing that he was in fact a Kaimin supporter, which is fine, helped understand what was being said and eliminated the original suspicion that I had. Unfortunately, misspelling Read's name and saying that his coaches were Read and Dennehy, were misleading and caused some of us to assume he wasn't being truthful. It's the internet, I will cut him some slack on that. I will also say that he wasn't dishonest, and I and perhaps others were wrong on that--but, again, our initial reactions were based on some of his "misleading" statements.

I would be happen to continue the main discussion, without all the other crap, anytime. The OP's views of Bobby are influenced by the Kaimin/Hauck things. That's fine. My views are influenced by liking Bobby and knowing a lot about the underlying facts of one of the incidents and something about the other the OP cited. Personally, I like how Bobby (and other coaches) protected their players to the extent he/they could--even tho they were kicking their asses behind the scene. My views are also influenced by having a large dislike for the Missoulian and some of his people over time, which came from its "news" coverage at times and from knowing a number of former employees/managers.

Separate subject, but some of the Kaimin reporting over the years, including in the JJ trial and occasionally on athletics, has been much better and more fair than the Missoulian's. Like many of you, I really like, and can't respect, much of the Missoulian's coverage of Griz athletics, especially things like the JJ situation. There are reasons that negative views on the media in the US are incredibly low. And that occurred long before Trump came along.

Anyway, OP, as I said last night, I'm all good with the situation, and even had some fun along the way. My family goes to Big Sky at X-mas, so won't be in town.

 

[AZGrizFan]

We are nice people and yes, liberals. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Maybe not mutually exclusive...but kinda like bigfoot. :lol: :lol:

 

[The.Real.2506]

PR never fails to come across as an ass, must be because he is one. While I generally have a healthy disdain for liberal journalist types, I think this guy was pretty straight forward and has some good points. All I see from PR is shouting and screaming with his hands over his ears.

 

[SoldierGriz]

PR never fails to come across as an ass, must be because he is one. While I generally have a healthy disdain for liberal journalist types, I think this guy was pretty straight forward and has some good points. All I see from PR is shouting and screaming with his hands over his ears.

Then you were not paying attention.

 

[SoldierGriz]

To summarize, while it took awhile to figure out where the OP was coming from, we eventually did. This helped understand what he was saying, and to see that, while he was going to support the Kaimin and perhaps the Missoulian to some extent, he wasn't coming with a big axe to grind. I find that new posters who arrive like the OP did, often do have big hidden agendas or big axes to grind. There was actually some good discussion along the way. The OP is articulate and writes well. While I don't agree with much of what he said, I'm fine with what he said and the discussion. Again, knowing that he was in fact a Kaimin supporter, which is fine, helped understand what was being said and eliminated the original suspicion that I had. Unfortunately, misspelling Read's name and saying that his coaches were Read and Dennehy, were misleading and caused some of us to assume he wasn't being truthful. It's the internet, I will cut him some slack on that. I will also say that he wasn't dishonest, and I and perhaps others were wrong on that--but, again, our initial reactions were based on some of his "misleading" statements.

I would be happen to continue the main discussion, without all the other crap, anytime. The OP's views of Bobby are influenced by the Kaimin/Hauck things. That's fine. My views are influenced by liking Bobby and knowing a lot about the underlying facts of one of the incidents and something about the other the OP cited. Personally, I like how Bobby (and other coaches) protected their players to the extent he/they could--even tho they were kicking their asses behind the scene. My views are also influenced by having a large dislike for the Missoulian and some of his people over time, which came from its "news" coverage at times and from knowing a number of former employees/managers.

Separate subject, but some of the Kaimin reporting over the years, including in the JJ trial and occasionally on athletics, has been much better and more fair than the Missoulian's. Like many of you, I really like, and can't respect, much of the Missoulian's coverage of Griz athletics, especially things like the JJ situation. There are reasons that negative views on the media in the US are incredibly low. And that occurred long before Trump came along.

Anyway, OP, as I said last night, I'm all good with the situation, and even had some fun along the way. My family goes to Big Sky at X-mas, so won't be in town.

I agree 100% - Kaimin is superior to the missoulian...and it's not even close.

 

[PlayerRep]

We are nice people and yes, liberals. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Maybe not mutually exclusive...but kinda like bigfoot. :lol: :lol:

Yes, liberals, like most people, are nice. My gripe with some of them in Missoula is that too many of them (not all of them) are anti-business and anti-Griz athletics.

 

[The.Real.2506]

PR never fails to come across as an ass, must be because he is one. While I generally have a healthy disdain for liberal journalist types, I think this guy was pretty straight forward and has some good points. All I see from PR is shouting and screaming with his hands over his ears.

Then you were not paying attention.

 

[SoldierGriz]

PR never fails to come across as an ass, must be because he is one. While I generally have a healthy disdain for liberal journalist types, I think this guy was pretty straight forward and has some good points. All I see from PR is shouting and screaming with his hands over his ears.

Then you were not paying attention.

 

[NorthEndZoneDan]

this thread is pure comedy gold, its egriz at its finest. Solid by PR and if ordigger is getting Mila... damn.

 

[mcg]

Hey Colonel Yossarian, I thought your post was good and pointed out a real fact, one of any football coaches jobs is to develop positive relationships with the press that covers his team. I'm not sure why this is so controversial but I thought it was a good post, thanks.

 

[Yossarian3345]

I'm curious about this, since it's my profession, but what relationship with media do you expect your head coach to have? I've had both good and difficult relationships with coaches I've covered, but almost always based on some kind of mutual respect. Even the ones who felt pushed by me at times understood that I came at them from a place of fairness, and if I erred, we discussed it privately. John Harbaugh and I had a lot of discussions like this. He was mad, and then he was conciliatory in private after we hashed it out like men. Reporters used to be able to call Read and Mick at their houses if they really needed reaction to a story. Obviously the times change, and there are uncomfortable elements of modern college culture that maybe didn't exist in the 80s or 90s (like players pistol whipping drug dealers and holding them at gunpoint) but it seems so often "stuff I don't like" gets translated into "stuff that feels biased to me."

Here is what a college coach should do, in my opinion with regards to the media: Teach his players to be respectful and unafraid of speaking with them about non-controversial subjects. If the Kaimin or the Missoulian wants to do a feature on the quarterback, encourage it. This is called preparing them for real life, dealing with people in a professional polite way. If it's a controversial issue, simply tell them to decline comment. "Thanks, I know you have a job to do, but I'm going to refrain from comment here." That's not difficult. It's actually highly beneficial to the school's larger representation. You know who does this? The Naval Academy, realizing this is an important part of molding young men into adults. No players or assistants are ever off limits and neither is practice. Yet somehow they're consistently successful, beating teams with way more talent.

Some of you excuse and explain away behavior in Hauck that you'd never excuse if someone in your office did it. And then dress it up as "don't be a pussy. It's football." Yet somehow NFL coaches handle themselves with maturity and respect all the time. Even Belichick, who can be gruff and dismissive, will give good answers to fair and thoughtful questions. And privately he is often quite friendly with the media.

All the energy spent nursing grudges over petty things can be better directed elsewhere. Men who behave like tyrants eventually make everyone weary. What's strangely ignored by overzealous fans is that college football coaches, by nature, are also educators. If you say they aren't, then let's drop the sham of amateurism. If your student newspaper asks you a question (or series of questions) that's unfair, how is cursing them out in a press conference fulfilling that part of being an educator? Take them aside, tell them what you find unfair, agree to disagree and move on. Who did turning that into a national story benefit? Certainly not the university. At least Hauck had accomplished something at UM when he behave this way though. Stitt closed practices and refused to let the media interview his quarterbacks and many of his players based on his amazing success at a school smaller than most Texas high schools.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

this thread is pure comedy gold, its egriz at its finest. Solid by PR and if ordigger is getting Mila... damn.

?

 

[PlayerRep]

I'm curious about this, since it's my profession, but what relationship with media do you expect your head coach to have? I've had both good and difficult relationships with coaches I've covered, but almost always based on some kind of mutual respect. Even the ones who felt pushed by me at times understood that I came at them from a place of fairness, and if I erred, we discussed it privately. John Harbaugh and I had a lot of discussions like this. He was mad, and then he was conciliatory in private after we hashed it out like men. Reporters used to be able to call Read and Mick at their houses if they really needed reaction to a story. Obviously the times change, and there are uncomfortable elements of modern college culture that maybe didn't exist in the 80s or 90s (like players pistol whipping drug dealers and holding them at gunpoint) but it seems so often "stuff I don't like" gets translated into "stuff that feels biased to me."

Here is what a college coach should do, in my opinion with regards to the media: Teach his players to be respectful and unafraid of speaking with them about non-controversial subjects. If the Kaimin or the Missoulian wants to do a feature on the quarterback, encourage it. This is called preparing them for real life, dealing with people in a professional polite way. If it's a controversial issue, simply tell them to decline comment. "Thanks, I know you have a job to do, but I'm going to refrain from comment here." That's not difficult. It's actually highly beneficial to the school's larger representation. You know who does this? The Naval Academy, realizing this is an important part of molding young men into adults. No players or assistants are ever off limits and neither is practice. Yet somehow they're consistently successful, beating teams with way more talent.

Some of you excuse and explain away behavior in Hauck that you'd never excuse if someone in your office did it. And then dress it up as "don't be a pussy. It's football." Yet somehow NFL coaches handle themselves with maturity and respect all the time. Even Belichick, who can be gruff and dismissive, will give good answers to fair and thoughtful questions. And privately he is often quite friendly with the media.

All the energy spent nursing grudges over petty things can be better directed elsewhere. Men who behave like tyrants eventually make everyone weary. What's strangely ignored by overzealous fans is that college football coaches, by nature, are also educators. If you say they aren't, then let's drop the sham of amateurism. If your student newspaper asks you a question (or series of questions) that's unfair, how is cursing them out in a press conference fulfilling that part of being an educator? Take them aside, tell them what you find unfair, agree to disagree and move on. Who did turning that into a national story benefit? Certainly not the university. At least Hauck had accomplished something at UM when he behave this way though. Stitt closed practices and refused to let the media interview his quarterbacks and many of his players based on his amazing success at a school smaller than most Texas high schools.

Don't have time to respond, but, again, I don't agree with some of your stuff and agree with some of it. Personally, this isn't a big factor for me for a football coach at a school like MT. I defer to him, and his AD.


I would ask you, what about the standards for reporters in a market/town like Missoula? Why should they be pushy, ask the same question repeatedly, and think they can continue to ask questions when the coach says no, and the players have been told not to talk to the media (for whatever reason)? Why can't they be respectful and work to develop relationships. You mention how people are treated at work. I can guarantee you that our place wouldn't tolerate what some of the Kaimin kids have done at times, nor what I have observed multiple times.

Also, I'm sorry, but I don't believe football at this level exists to accommodate the media. The NFL is different. It is built around tv and media.

And on the Kaimin incidents with Hauck, my view is that it really isn't something that the media or the public needs to know more about. Players/students have rights too, and some expectation of privacy, including under the law. I will guarantee that if the media comes to our place to ask about personnel matters, it is highly unlikely that anyone would speak to the media.

I have known and liked a lot of reporters over the years, but I have known some and observed more, whom I thought were inappropriate and jerks.

I have no doubt that you and I have fundamentally different views about the media and journalism. Sports media is better than the other media, in my view.

P.S. How did you think your dad handled the media? He seemed to be a bit feisty at times. I liked how he took on that senior DOJ guy. I wrote a letter to the editor supporting your dad.

 

[SoldierGriz]

I'm curious about this, since it's my profession, but what relationship with media do you expect your head coach to have? I've had both good and difficult relationships with coaches I've covered, but almost always based on some kind of mutual respect. Even the ones who felt pushed by me at times understood that I came at them from a place of fairness, and if I erred, we discussed it privately. John Harbaugh and I had a lot of discussions like this. He was mad, and then he was conciliatory in private after we hashed it out like men. Reporters used to be able to call Read and Mick at their houses if they really needed reaction to a story. Obviously the times change, and there are uncomfortable elements of modern college culture that maybe didn't exist in the 80s or 90s (like players pistol whipping drug dealers and holding them at gunpoint) but it seems so often "stuff I don't like" gets translated into "stuff that feels biased to me."

Here is what a college coach should do, in my opinion with regards to the media: Teach his players to be respectful and unafraid of speaking with them about non-controversial subjects. If the Kaimin or the Missoulian wants to do a feature on the quarterback, encourage it. This is called preparing them for real life, dealing with people in a professional polite way. If it's a controversial issue, simply tell them to decline comment. "Thanks, I know you have a job to do, but I'm going to refrain from comment here." That's not difficult. It's actually highly beneficial to the school's larger representation. You know who does this? The Naval Academy, realizing this is an important part of molding young men into adults. No players or assistants are ever off limits and neither is practice. Yet somehow they're consistently successful, beating teams with way more talent.

Some of you excuse and explain away behavior in Hauck that you'd never excuse if someone in your office did it. And then dress it up as "don't be a pussy. It's football." Yet somehow NFL coaches handle themselves with maturity and respect all the time. Even Belichick, who can be gruff and dismissive, will give good answers to fair and thoughtful questions. And privately he is often quite friendly with the media.

All the energy spent nursing grudges over petty things can be better directed elsewhere. Men who behave like tyrants eventually make everyone weary. What's strangely ignored by overzealous fans is that college football coaches, by nature, are also educators. If you say they aren't, then let's drop the sham of amateurism. If your student newspaper asks you a question (or series of questions) that's unfair, how is cursing them out in a press conference fulfilling that part of being an educator? Take them aside, tell them what you find unfair, agree to disagree and move on. Who did turning that into a national story benefit? Certainly not the university. At least Hauck had accomplished something at UM when he behave this way though. Stitt closed practices and refused to let the media interview his quarterbacks and many of his players based on his amazing success at a school smaller than most Texas high schools.

Pretty good post - far better than your initial fiasco. A couple of points:

1. I don't recall anyone on here "excusing and explaining away" behavior in Hauck. When Hauck's players had issues - there was plenty said about it. This is no different than when Stitt's players had issues. Griz fans expect Griz coaches to run clean programs - always have, always will.

2. I think coaches choose how they will interact with journalists based on how journalists treat them, their players, and their program. Some journalists are idiots. Some coaches can do better. I bet if you asked BH if he might do things differently - he might say yes. I don't know. On the other hand, I doubt Stitt will ever open practices. I think fair journalists are mostly treated fairly.

Anyway - I agree with much you've written above. Stay fair.

 

[ordigger]

this thread is pure comedy gold, its egriz at its finest. Solid by PR and if ordigger is getting Mila... damn.

?

Don't worry Mr Dangerfield. It's all good.