The Book

[mtgrizrule]

Crap like this pisses me off. Damn it, JJ was found not guilty!! Hell, there was not even enough evidence for this to have gone to trial, but it did because of the likes of Florio and KrakWHORE!!!!

I'd be pissed and upset by this happening to anyone. That crap both sides of the JJ case went through is enough!!!!! My prayers to both parties and their families. My prayers to you as well. It is pretty low class and inconsiderate of anyone to keep running this crap through the coals. Let it rest, please!!! How would you like it if yourself, family member, or personal friend went through the pure hell both parties did, and the accused went to trial was found not guilty, and idiotic, inconsiderate jerks like you continued to bring this crap up?? Worse yet, have someone paint a picture to make others believe the accused was guilty despite having already been found not guilty!!!!

I don't know what your agenda is, and if it is driven because you are a cat fan. Regardless, it is classless for a fan of any team to stoop to the lows you have. Grow the f up, and let both parties in this nasty ordeal live and go on with their lives!!! Or is that asking too much for the likes of you, Florio, and Krakwhore? Enough is enough, both parties and their families have already been through hell. Let them get their lives back and be happy again, if that is possible.

We as fans, regardless of which teams we like or hate have to at times know and realize there are lines we should not be crossing. This is one of those lines.

hey I'm just repeating what's in the book. No different than 75.

So
Then maybe you should learn from him how to do so without having other readers get the wrong impression. He actually posts his thoughts with a lot more consideration toward other readers and the parties being discussed. Presentation is a huge difference. Plus, your history of being anti GRIZ and stooping pretty low does not help your cause.

Sorry I gave you the wrong impression. I don't have a way with words like 75 and PR.

I'm not anti-Griz. I'm pro Griz only like Dennehy, Haslam and Engstrom.

Up until now, by your post I would have never guessed that. Thanks for owning up. Sorry for the rant. I just hate to see this issue continuing on and just want it put to bed, once and for all. I want to see both parties go on with their lives without people digging this crap up. I am sure there are people close to both or either side who read egriz and the publications. I have empathy, compassion, and understanding for them.

 

[UMGriz75]

Lasted about 17 min. Donaldson case had major mention, brief mention of University handling of rape cases generally, and ended with Rose asking him on what Missoula thought of him and his book. NOTHING about the JJ trial. Softball interview.

Like the Washington Post, I find it "puzzling" that Krakauer seems to be devoting, now, the vast majority of his emphasis to the Donaldson case.

There certainly was nothing, per se, that had anything to do with UM or the football team. The victim and the perpetrator did not meet at UM, she did not "date" him, their relationship had nothing to do with his status as a football player, they had been hanging out as kids, and had a long history of social interaction. She did not sleep over at his apartment because either one of them had anything to do with athletics or UM. The "UM connection" is missing nearly entirely except for the coincidence that they happened to be UM students at that point in time. They both had probably shopped at WalMart as well. But WalMart had no connection with the crime, either.

It is far from the effort to create a " campus rape problem" of kids going off to school, doing stupid stuff, and because of the collegiate environment a horrendous rape occurs. It just isn't there. There isn't a coach in the world that is going to be prepared for that one, with the stern admonition, "oh, and by the way, don't socialize with your childhood family friends either." That simply was not a "campus rape" story.

Secondly, despite the 15 month gap between "event" and "report," the police did everything right, the County Attorney's office promptly charged Donaldson, he pleaded guilty, and he got a relatively lengthy sentence.

Despite his fierce but feigned indignation, Krakhauer is not making any case whatsoever that somehow the Donaldson case represents a "miscarriage of justice" or is somehow representative of the failure of the judicial system, and it certainly doesn't say anything about "campus" rapes.

At least insofar as his chosen emphasis, he isn't actually saying anything that happens to be true. At best, he is expressing anger about a situation in which the system did what it was supposed to do, and did all that it could do.

So, besides attempting to sell a dead book, what's his point?

That, between 20 year olds, rape tends to occur more often, except in Missoula, Montana which is below the national average?

That's a story that needs to be told?

To who?

 

[UMGriz75]

hey I'm just repeating what's in the book. No different than 75.

"What's in the book is a polticized construction, designed to obfuscate what actually happened. That is considerably different than what "75" is offering, which is actually the evidence offered, mostly by the probable fabulist herself.

 

[PlayerRep]

See my responses embedded, in brackets, in gg's post.

He rode into town and...
Found Kirsten Pabst only tries slam dunk cases so she can run her win pct to 99

[That statement is completely inaccurate. She wins her cases because she is a terrific lawyer, and as all good prosecutors should do, she prosecutes only the cases that should be brought and should be winnable, in sexual assault matters. Good prosecutors generally don't bring marginal cases in the sexual assault area. In other areas, marginal cases are brought.]

...and that JJ deleted all his texts after and about the night in question

[Everyone deletes texts from their phones, in part because the in-box fills up. JJ deleted all of his texts, not just those texts. The police waited so long to seek the texts, that even the phone company had deleted the texts. What's that? 6 weeks generally? Speak up if you save your texts longer than the phone company keeps the text. No one does that.]

...and that Pabst defended an accused rapist at a UM proceeding while a county attorney

[The attorney for accused, who had previously worked with Pabst at the county attorneys office, subpoenaed or asked her to attend, and answer questions. She didn't defend the accused in that proceeding. Most of what she did was explain the process.]

...and that jj initiated the hook up with his accuser

[No, the day after the accuser and he had talked at the Ball, and she had said she would do him anytime, he sent her the first text. Sorry, just not a big deal, and completely irrelevant.]
...and that Donaldson was a serial rapist

[Yes, a 2d woman came forward, but they actually didn't have sex. She said he attempted to have sex with her.]

...and that JJ initiated 75 of the 100 text conversations between he and his accuser

[This stat was not accurate. The police didn't use the right methodology. If the accuser sent him a text late at night, and he responded the next day, the police counted that as his initiation. In reality, it was clear that she chased him a lot more than he chased her.]

...and that Donaldson wouldn't admit he raped his friend to a therapist even after being recorded admitting to it twice

...that JJ drank a lot of beer before getting picked up by accuser

[There was conflicting testimony on this. Don't think even the accuser said he was drunk.]
...that JJ got in trouble by UM for getting drunk and disorderly in the dorms [Wow, he got caught drinking in the dorm when he was a frosh (and thousands of other frosh have been drinking in their dorm over the years at UM.]

...that Couture conducted the UM proceedings properly and as instructed

[Didn't you read what the federal judge said about UM and Couture's process? The process would offend anyone's sense of fairness. The process was absolutely awful. The process, combined with using a standard that UM had not yet put in place, is why MT Higher Education directed UM and the new dean to repeat the process, and the dean concluded that JJ had not violated UM's sexual assault policy.]

...that one potential juror recused himself because he was a DJ at a bar that JJ drank at

...that JJ lost three straight UM trials

[There was on one proceeding, to my knowledge. Couture's flawed one. JJ was actually 1 and 1 in the two UM reviews of the incident. He won the last and most important one.]
...

 

[PlayerRep]

He is on Charlie Rose in the next few minutes.

Lasted about 17 min. Donaldson case had major mention, brief mention of University handling of rape cases generally, and ended with Rose asking him on what Missoula thought of him and his book. NOTHING about the JJ trial. Softball interview.

I wonder if Krakauer (and others) have gotten advice in the last couple days, saying they should avoid the JJ matter. Did the Nightline piece include JJ? I also wonder if Krakauer will tone down the Pabst smearing (ha) too. One would think that Krakauer's lawyer Meloy in Helena would be smart enough to warn Krakauer that Montana courts are different than most other places, and often plaintiff-oriented, and Paoli is one of the top and most successful plaintiffs lawyers in the state. I still think Krakauer is cruisin for a (court) bruising.

Dateline has now come to life, and plans to finally put out its Missoula segment as part of a show covering other topics.

PR, the damage has already been done. As much as I want and wish for Krakhauer, AKA Krakwhore to shut up, I hope he continues. Why? I honestly hope his actions come back to bit him in the ass!!! If he continues to push this, he will be pushing money back to the ones he is hurting with this tabloid and his actions. My hope is, JJ would win a lawsuit to pay for the unneeded trial to begin with. God knows, his family sacrificed everything they had to fight a case that did not have enough evidence to even have a trial. This case was waste of time and money.

Neither Paoli or Pabst will be suing him. They know they'd lose. Only a non-lawyer would try, because a money hungry lawyer would take their case. It would need to be a very wealthy non-lawyer. Like Trumaine Johnson.

You obviously don't know what you're talking about, and have no clue about the law or Montana courts. People bring lawsuits all the time without expecting to win.

 

[br fan]

Libel and slander suits are a lot more difficult to win for an elected public official than they are for a private individual. Krakauer's walking a line by raising a controversy about Pabst to spark interest and sell more books, but I'm sure he's been advised as to how far he can push it and the extent of his risk.

 

[UMGriz75]

My agenda is that we should look at both sides of the story. Not just JJ's.

That is that last thing your "agenda" is about.

 

[grizcountry420]

My agenda is that we should look at both sides of the story. Not just JJ's.

That is that last thing your "agenda" is about.

 

[mtgrizrule]

My agenda is that we should look at both sides of the story. Not just JJ's.

That is that last thing your "agenda" is about.

GC420 thanks for my laugh of the day. :lol: :thumb: That is great.

 

[signedbewildered]

"They (Missoulians) are outraged that the city was besmirched by the book title, not by what is revealed in the book…. That doesn’t make me think well of Missoula." ~ Jon Krakauer

 

[CDAGRIZ]

He is on Charlie Rose in the next few minutes.

Lasted about 17 min. Donaldson case had major mention, brief mention of University handling of rape cases generally, and ended with Rose asking him on what Missoula thought of him and his book. NOTHING about the JJ trial. Softball interview.

I wonder if Krakauer (and others) have gotten advice in the last couple days, saying they should avoid the JJ matter. Did the Nightline piece include JJ? I also wonder if Krakauer will tone down the Pabst smearing (ha) too. One would think that Krakauer's lawyer Meloy in Helena would be smart enough to warn Krakauer that Montana courts are different than most other places, and often plaintiff-oriented, and Paoli is one of the top and most successful plaintiffs lawyers in the state. I still think Krakauer is cruisin for a (court) bruising.

Dateline has now come to life, and plans to finally put out its Missoula segment as part of a show covering other topics.

PR, the damage has already been done. As much as I want and wish for Krakhauer, AKA Krakwhore to shut up, I hope he continues. Why? I honestly hope his actions come back to bit him in the ass!!! If he continues to push this, he will be pushing money back to the ones he is hurting with this tabloid and his actions. My hope is, JJ would win a lawsuit to pay for the unneeded trial to begin with. God knows, his family sacrificed everything they had to fight a case that did not have enough evidence to even have a trial. This case was waste of time and money.

Neither Paoli or Pabst will be suing him. They know they'd lose. Only a non-lawyer would try, because a money hungry lawyer would take their case. It would need to be a very wealthy non-lawyer. Like Trumaine Johnson.

What the fuck are you even talking about? Pro tip that might help you in the future: Don't state speculation as fact. It makes you look silly. Seriously. Everyone knows what you're about, and most likely know who you are. Just stop.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Libel and slander suits are a lot more difficult to win for an elected public official than they are for a private individual. Krakauer's walking a line by raising a controversy about Pabst to spark interest and sell more books, but I'm sure he's been advised as to how far he can push it and the extent of his risk.

As PR noted, it's not always about the merits.

 

[Grisly Fan]

"They (Missoulians) are outraged that the city was besmirched by the book title, not by what is revealed in the book…. That doesn’t make me think well of Missoula." ~ Jon Krakauer

Oh boo hoo, they called the title of his baby ugly. That's the least of his pointless worries. I am hoping somebody really gives him something to worry about. Besides, if he wanted people to worry about the content of the book he might have worried about including more facts and less fiction.

 

[argh!]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKC8pSFg1Vw[/youtube]

 

[argh!]

What the f*** are you even talking about? Pro tip that might help you in the future: Don't state speculation as fact. It makes you look silly. Seriously. Everyone knows what you're about, and most likely know who you are. Just stop.

stop. read your own prose for once. think. criticize.

 

[PlayerRep]

Here's an example of why Krakauer may want to be more careful. $17 million judgment and $7.5 million of legal fees. Paoli/Strauch were the plaintiffs lawyers. Looking at who put up the costs, i.e. $90,000 and Strauch $500, I assume that Paoli had the lion's share of the case. This is what Paoli does over and over. Looks like he would have plenty of cash to play with for another big fight--particularly one he believed in.

http://missoulian.com/news/local/missoula-county-judge-upholds-m-verdict-in-logging-company-lawsuit/article_a3d5c1b1-6dd9-5489-a7dc-b989bd192c44.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This website says Krakauer has a net worth of $35 million. That would be a nice target for a good lawsuit.

http://net-worth.net/jon-krakauer-net-worth/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[CDAGRIZ]

What the f*** are you even talking about? Pro tip that might help you in the future: Don't state speculation as fact. It makes you look silly. Seriously. Everyone knows what you're about, and most likely know who you are. Just stop.

stop. read your own prose for once. think. criticize.

Start over.

 

[UMGriz75]

"They (Missoulians) are outraged that the city was besmirched by the book title, not by what is revealed in the book…. That doesn’t make me think well of Missoula." ~ Jon Krakauer

Let's see, two long time friends get totally tanked together, something they had done together many times "since they both became of age," and she stays over at his apartment because she is too drunk to drive home. He gets horny and comes out and begins to have sex. She states she was "afraid to say no," so he keeps going. She "was not happy about the experience," indeed, it scared the hell out of her, it was a rape, but let him know she thought "he had a problem," and as an childhood friend, rather than go directly to the police, demanded he get help for alcohol and whatever else. After 15 months of lying to her about "getting help" she finally files a police report. The police investigate, refer it for prosecution, charges are filed, he pleads guilty and gets a 10 year sentence.

So Krak claims that represents the failure of the legal system, it's also whats wrong with America, and, for good measure, calls that ... "Missoula," because Missoula's "rate of rape" is lower than the national average, and the case was so special, and he had to call it "something" and "Safer than Most Places" wasn't going to sell many books.

 

[UMGriz75]

Here's an example of why Krakauer may want to be more careful. $17 million judgment and $7.5 million of legal fees. Paoli/Strauch were the plaintiffs lawyers. Looking at who put up the costs, i.e. $90,000 and Strauch $500, I assume that Paoli had the lion's share of the case. This is what Paoli does over and over. Looks like he would have plenty of cash to play with for another big fight--particularly one he believed in.

Strauch office-shares with Paoli and recently got a $52 million judgment in Butte against a Bank. They increasingly collaborate.

http://missoulian.com/news/local/bank-that-took-bailout-but-wouldn-t-help-butte-startup/article_987038dc-830b-11e3-a7eb-001a4bcf887a.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Paoli has done well off of FELA cases. "Involuntary contributions" from the Burlington Northern railroad alone have made him wealthy. Note that his Jury Board during trial selection was the other side of a BN Locomotive poster he had once used in another trial, from which some, perhaps justifiably, perhaps not, thought he was sending the subliminal message to the Jury regarding JJ ... "Railroaded." His office is full of railroad memorabilia.

Can't get "attorney fees" in successful Defamation cases, but in the case of proven "malice," can get "punitive damages." An angry Jury will often more than compensate for attorney fees with punitive damage awards -- punishment for rotten behavior -- sometimes far in excess of the regular general damage awards.

McDonald's, in a famous case, got slammed with a $120 million punitive damage judgment by a jury for burning a Grandma (she was 80) in the drive through with "too-hot coffee" when it spilled (unfortunately on her groin region requiring multiple skin transplants). In that case, in a supreme example of corporate arrogance, McDonalds had turned down a $20,000 settlement offer -- the costs of the surgeries and associated medicals -- from Grandma's attorney who had been willing to waive his fees to settle the case. "Punitive Damages" are messages from angry Juries to Schmucks. Krak, in his zealotry to paint JJ as "The Rapist" after an acquital of a case generally thought to have been wrongly charged in the first place, is a Schmuck.

 

[tnt]

Punitive damages may be a message but what was the final award in that McDonalds case?