T. Poole Coming Back

[Ursa Major]

Yeah, of all the thugs and derelicts the fizz have had get into trouble, this guy is probably the least troublesome and probably deserves a 2nd chance.

God I can't wait for November! Watching the cat fans on their trail of tears as they exit the kitty box in shame and despair sometime in the middle of the 3erd quarter....Again.

Kind of like the exodus from wa wa fizz stadium last year :lol:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvYNBDFxy28[/youtube]

And you show a video of the last play of the fucking game to prove how OUR exodus was comparable to YOUR exodus in the THIRD QUARTER? :lol: :x :?

This would have been the perfect time to have released a half-starved Brutus to clear out the riff raff from the stadium.

 

[AZGrizFan]

And you show a video of the last play of the f***[*] game to prove how OUR exodus was comparable to YOUR exodus in the THIRD QUARTER? :lol: :x :?

Is that the pic that people like to post that clearly shows the score in the 4th ?

Worse than that, it's the last play...the kneel down, as the clock expires. :lol: :roll:

 

[KoolMoeDee]

Sorry . I should have said the 2 pics of the games in Boz. that people love to post and claim that it's from the 3rd quarter.

 

[HighLineGRIZ]

The athlete code wouldn't appear to call for, or even authorize, anything close to a 4-6 game suspension (altho I don't know the details of how the charges were dropped or have faded away). Maybe 1 game, is what the code seems to indicate (again, dependent on exactly what has happened to the charges). He already sat out winter conditioning and spring ball. The coach can certainly impose more, but I would think the suspension from late last October to now would be taken into account. Note that he already missed several games last fall.

By the way, I think summer voluntary conditioning/practice started this week, maybe yesterday.

If it's your opinion PR, that the punishment should follow the code, it's a reasonable opinion. I just don't share it. You are right, if this happened in any other program in another city, his punishment would have likely been less severe. However, with where our program was and with the overall reputation of our program and players as low as it was (fair or not), much stricter punishment had to be given. I'm sure Trevor is a great kid and I've heard a lot of nice things about his family, but the kid made a terrible and selfish decision that was damaging to the reputation of the team at a time when it was the last thing needed. I'm all for allowing him back on the team if he has all the legalities and other distractions taken care of, but I think he should be without scholarship this year and prove that he deserves to get it back spring semester. Again, this is my opinion. I won't be around today to defend it, but I think that's the type of discipline that is needed beyond the code.

Best of luck to Trevor. He is one of our better OL and probably our best option at LT, which is a crucial position.

You don't think the university should follow its recently written and more strict athletic code? Do they have a choice?

I don't know or have any strong feelings regarding a scholarship in the fall. However, if the family is willing to pay for the fall, not having a schollie doesn't punish the kid. If it makes you or others feel better that he doesn't have a schollie even when he's back on the team, then great. If the coach doesn't want to give the schollie back now, or there isn't one available, that's fine/great too.

The kid made a mistake. No doubt about that. A "terrible and selfish" decision? You're welcome to your opinion. Kids make a thousand or more similar mistakes every week; they just don't get caught or are cut some slack. Yes, it was too bad for Poole and the program, but I just can't get as outraged on this one as you apparently are. It was obviously a horrible and embarrassing experience for him. I'm sure he learned alot from it. I'm glad it appears to be working out for him. I wish him all the luck and success he get and achieve.

The University can and should assess penalty according to code. Believe they have to. However, beyond that, it's up to the coach on what and how severe of punishment a player should receive. The coach is free to make decisions on who receives scholarship money and who doesn't or who plays and who sits up in the stands watching. I played for a program where you earned your playing time by your play on the field and your behavior off of it. That's a philosophy I highly respect and breeds and maintains a respective and winning program over the long term.

It's not about making me or other fans feeling better, it's about setting a precedent and a culture of the team following the law and thinking about how their actions affect the team. As a Griz fan, I would like to see our team maintain a program with discipline and accountability with no excuses.

I wish Trevor nothing but the very best and hopefully he'll be able to finish off his career here on a high note. He's a good player who seems like a good guy.

 

[PlayerRep]

The athlete code wouldn't appear to call for, or even authorize, anything close to a 4-6 game suspension (altho I don't know the details of how the charges were dropped or have faded away). Maybe 1 game, is what the code seems to indicate (again, dependent on exactly what has happened to the charges). He already sat out winter conditioning and spring ball. The coach can certainly impose more, but I would think the suspension from late last October to now would be taken into account. Note that he already missed several games last fall.

By the way, I think summer voluntary conditioning/practice started this week, maybe yesterday.

If it's your opinion PR, that the punishment should follow the code, it's a reasonable opinion. I just don't share it. You are right, if this happened in any other program in another city, his punishment would have likely been less severe. However, with where our program was and with the overall reputation of our program and players as low as it was (fair or not), much stricter punishment had to be given. I'm sure Trevor is a great kid and I've heard a lot of nice things about his family, but the kid made a terrible and selfish decision that was damaging to the reputation of the team at a time when it was the last thing needed. I'm all for allowing him back on the team if he has all the legalities and other distractions taken care of, but I think he should be without scholarship this year and prove that he deserves to get it back spring semester. Again, this is my opinion. I won't be around today to defend it, but I think that's the type of discipline that is needed beyond the code.

Best of luck to Trevor. He is one of our better OL and probably our best option at LT, which is a crucial position.

You don't think the university should follow its recently written and more strict athletic code? Do they have a choice?

I don't know or have any strong feelings regarding a scholarship in the fall. However, if the family is willing to pay for the fall, not having a schollie doesn't punish the kid. If it makes you or others feel better that he doesn't have a schollie even when he's back on the team, then great. If the coach doesn't want to give the schollie back now, or there isn't one available, that's fine/great too.

The kid made a mistake. No doubt about that. A "terrible and selfish" decision? You're welcome to your opinion. Kids make a thousand or more similar mistakes every week; they just don't get caught or are cut some slack. Yes, it was too bad for Poole and the program, but I just can't get as outraged on this one as you apparently are. It was obviously a horrible and embarrassing experience for him. I'm sure he learned alot from it. I'm glad it appears to be working out for him. I wish him all the luck and success he get and achieve.

The University can and should assess penalty according to code. Believe they have to. However, beyond that, it's up to the coach on what and how severe of punishment a player should receive. The coach is free to make decisions on who receives scholarship money and who doesn't or who plays and who sits up in the stands watching. I played for a program where you earned your playing time by your play on the field and your behavior off of it. That's a philosophy I highly respect and breeds and maintains a respective and winning program over the long term.

It's not about making me or other fans feeling better, it's about setting a precedent and a culture of the team following the law and thinking about how their actions affect the team. As a Griz fan, I would like to see our team maintain a program with discipline and accountability with no excuses.

I wish Trevor nothing but the very best and hopefully he'll be able to finish off his career here on a high note. He's a good player who seems like a good guy.

Again, I don't care if Poole has his schollie back now or doesn't. That decision should be made in accordance with any applicable policy or code and by people directly involved with what has occurred and is occurring now. You high-minded words/views are fine, but they are merely general statements. In my view, when a kid has made a mistake like this, suffered the consequences, and served out his punishment, then it's perfectly fine for him to be given a second chance. You seem to think that the culture, discipline and accountability of the program depends on whether he is given or schollie or not at this time. I don't. Under your high-minded and vague words/views, an argument could be made that no one who ever made a mistake should ever be allowed a second chance.

I'm sorry, but I just don't think that buying two pills at a big party is the crime of the century. Kids and people do similar or worse things in Montana thousands and thousands of times every week. This incident reflects how ridiculous some of our drug laws and enforcement decisions are, and how ridiculous the current press coverage of certain things is, in our society. Some people, including perhaps even yourself, apparently think athletes should be perfect. They aren't. They never will be. I look forward to the time where people and the press stop obsessing on the off-field activities/behavior of athletes.

 

[Bear Axed]

 

[HighLineGRIZ]

PR,

Please do not put words in my mouth or make assumptions of what you think I "seem" to think.

Never said the kid shouldn't be given a 2nd chance. I believe he should and I've stated that clearly in my posts. Never said athletes need to be perfect or even strive to be perfect. Learning from mistakes is a valuable part of growing up. Never said that the disciplinary culture is dependent on whether Poole gets his scholarship back or not. Regardless, I'm a believer of accountability opposed to being dismissive and making light of offenses like this. Our disciplinary culture is dependent on that. Making excuses for kids behavior simply doesn't help.

 

[PlayerRep]

PR,

Please do not put words in my mouth or make assumptions of what you think I "seem" to think.

Never said the kid shouldn't be given a 2nd chance. I believe he should and I've stated that clearly in my posts. Never said athletes need to be perfect or even strive to be perfect. Learning from mistakes is a valuable part of growing up. Never said that the disciplinary culture is dependent on whether Poole gets his scholarship back or not. Regardless, I'm a believer of accountability opposed to being dismissive and making light of offenses like this. Our disciplinary culture is dependent on that. Making excuses for kids behavior simply doesn't help.

Fair enough. Note that most of what I said was not necessarily directed to you.

Putting kid's bad behavior in perspective, and not judging it primarily from how the media covers it, is not making excuses for kids.

Pointing out that the university should follow its athletic code, and not go beyond what the code what is stated in the code, is not making excuses for kids.

Pointing out that kids, like all US citizens, are entitled to due process rights, and police/prosecutors are required to follow criminal process procedures, is not making excuses for kids.

Pointing out that initial reports and charges are often incorrect and one-sided is not making excuses for kids.

Giving second chances to kids who deserves second chances is not making excuses for kids.

For what I view as a fairly minor (2 pills) and common occurrence in the U.S., Poole has has missed 2 games, been off the team for almost 8 months, missed winter conditioning, missed spring ball, lost his scholarship, had to comply with various court imposed rules and procedures, attended "drug" classes, and suffered considerable embarrassment and bad press. It seems to me that his punishment has already been very significant.

Maybe my views are colored by when I attended college and played ball. Huge numbers were using recreational drugs, at least on occasion. Lots of college kids including athletes still use illegal drugs, at least on occasion.

Here are some ecstasy stats taken from the internet:

"By 2009, past-month use of Ecstasy in the U.S. had increased by 37% within one year. There are currently over 14 million lifetime users of the drug, and there are no signs that rates of use will be declining at any point in the near future."

I am in no way trying to excuse what Poole did. However, I feel strongly that it should be put into perspective.

 

[tnt]

I feel strongly that it should be put into perspective.

The perspective is the Coach told the players not to be at the party (it was not good for the program considering everything going on) several players attempted to dissuade him from going. He went anyway, was busted charged with a felony plead guilty in a plea deal. The whole situation added fire to a an already hot blaze.

Direct disobedience to a coaches direct order is a really big deal.

The only question is will delaney believe the natural consequences were enough along with a "told you so" or when he comes back will he be in the rate infamous Delaneys Dog house??

 

[Grisly Fan]

I feel strongly that it should be put into perspective.

The perspective is the Coach told the players not to be at the party (it was not good for the program considering everything going on) several players attempted to dissuade him from going. He went anyway, was busted charged with a felony plead guilty in a plea deal. The whole situation added fire to a an already hot blaze.

Direct disobedience to a coaches direct order is a really big deal.

The only question is will delaney believe the natural consequences were enough along with a "told you so" or when he comes back will he be in the rate infamous Delaneys Dog house??

If what you say is true -- and a lot of it, some of it quite inflammatory, has not been -- then this does rise to beyond a simple mistake. It sounds like he put his desire to party above the desire to play for the Griz. That says a whole lot.

 

[PlayerRep]

I feel strongly that it should be put into perspective.

The perspective is the Coach told the players not to be at the party (it was not good for the program considering everything going on) several players attempted to dissuade him from going. He went anyway, was busted charged with a felony plead guilty in a plea deal. The whole situation added fire to a an already hot blaze.

Direct disobedience to a coaches direct order is a really big deal.

The only question is will delaney believe the natural consequences were enough along with a "told you so" or when he comes back will he be in the rate infamous Delaneys Dog house??

If what you say is true -- and a lot of it, some of it quite inflammatory, has not been -- then this does rise to beyond a simple mistake. It sounds like he put his desire to party above the desire to play for the Griz. That says a whole lot.

Coaches probably tell the players, or some of them, almost every weekend during the season, to stay out of trouble and avoid bad situations--yet drinking, partying and bad situations continue, at least by some. If there was something specific or unique about this particular weekend, then the coaches will surely take it into account.

 

[wbtfg]

Wasnt it the huge halloween rave where it was advertised there would be a huge police presence?

 

[getgrizzy]

Wasnt it the huge halloween rave where it was advertised there would be a huge police presence?

yeah, we don't have a crime issue. it's just that our local paper prints it otherwise we'd be the same as anyone and therefore there's no need for direct punishment of players.

 

[PlayerRep]

Note the new thread today in which there are posts saying that Van Valkenberg said that DOJ investigation was started in Missoula because of over-coverage by Florio/Devlin/Missoulian and it being an election year. Looks like some of the views expressed by some of us previously on egriz are being validated by Van Valkenberg.

 

[getgrizzy]

Note the new thread today in which there are posts saying that Van Valkenberg said that DOJ investigation was started in Missoula because of over-coverage by Florio/Devlin/Missoulian and it being an election year. Looks like some of the views expressed by some of us previously on egriz are being validated by Van Valkenberg.

and here we thought van valkenberg was a bad guy for making j.j. go to trial and saying "not guilty doesn't mean innocent." actually he's the validator of egriz. is that a step up or down for him?

 

[billingsgriz]

I am glad Trevor Poole is coming back: he made a stupid mistake buying drugs, but his crime was nonviolent and he deserves a second chance, but not a third or fourth !!!

I think Fat Freddy, as some of my lawyer friends call him, is a very good county attorney for Missoula. That said, a friend of mine who is a fomer deputy county attorney that successfully prosecuted several rape cases told me that if Jordan Johnson were Joe Sixpack,he doesn't get charged because the case against him was so weak.

Because Jordy was/is the GRIZ QB and there are ongoing investigations by the DOJ, Dept. of Education, and The NCAA, and the fact that Fat Freddy is a Dem-O-crat, as am I, in a heavily Democratic town that includes a significant feminist population, he had to charge Jordy, knowing the JJ almost would certainly be aquitted.
By doing so, Fat Freddy can not now be accused of being a co-conspirator, a UM alum and booster covering up for the thugs on the football team by the investigators and his own constituents.

 

[Grisly Fan]

The "not guilty doesn't mean innocent" red herring is a distinction without a difference. Any case based on circumstantial evidence (by definition) relies on inference and that falls short of objective provability. You use the facts at hand to paint a picture of guilt. If in the end the accused is found guilty based on that picture you wouldn't say "well no one knows whether he is guilty or not" because the jury has the power to declare that (like it or not). If he is found not guilty then he might just as well be declared completely innocent because there is no difference in the legal context. You can cast any aspersions you wish based on whatever personal intellectual or moral or legal superiority you may feel you possess but the law has spoken. Everyone simply needs to get over this.

OJ was found not guilty and I thought it was a travesty -- but so what, he went free any way. Fortunately people who don't generally abide by the law find ways to hang themselves eventually. If JJ is that kind of person (BTW I believe he is not) then it is only a matter time. Call it karma if you wish.

To bring it to topic, young Mr. Poole will show his stripes based on his future life choices; the near term ones are of course the most of interest to Griz fans. I hope they are good ones.

 

[Grizzlies1982]

Trevor is a very good athlete, and by all accounts a pretty good kid. I am glad to see him returning to the team.

I'm certain he went through hell with his bad decision and won't be a problem again. Though for the benefit of the other 80 plus players I hope the coaches have a weekly meeting just to hammer home there will be consequences for any future bad decisions. The world of a college student is filled with distractions. So they need to be constantly reminded there is a potentially hefty price to be paid if they fall prey to those distractions.
:ugeek:

 

[getgrizzy]

i'm glad trevor is coming back too. he should be allowed back on the team after he sits out 4-5 games. he should be allowed to practice with the team so he can make an easy transition from second string to starter.

as for the j.j. trial no one knows if he raped her or not for sure. you can think it's one way or the other, but you can't know. about the only way we'll ever know is if one of them confesses. don't hold your breath. to say a not guilty verdict proves someone didn't commit a crime shows a complete lack of intellect. all it means is a trial was held, evidence was put to a jury, the jury decided evidence didn't prove guilt and the charged was set free. it does not prove someone didn't do something. as unfortunate as that may be. i don't think he should've been found guilty, but that doesn't mean that i know for sure he wasn't guilty. just like everyone else except j.j. and his accuser.

 

[PlayerRep]

i'm glad trevor is coming back too. he should be allowed back on the team after he sits out 4-5 games. he should be allowed to practice with the team so he can make an easy transition from second string to starter.

as for the j.j. trial no one knows if he raped her or not for sure. you can think it's one way or the other, but you can't know. about the only way we'll ever know is if one of them confesses. don't hold your breath. to say a not guilty verdict proves someone didn't commit a crime shows a complete lack of intellect. all it means is a trial was held, evidence was put to a jury, the jury decided evidence didn't prove guilt and the charged was set free. it does not prove someone didn't do something. as unfortunate as that may be. i don't think he should've been found guilty, but that doesn't mean that i know for sure he wasn't guilty. just like everyone else except j.j. and his accuser.

Poole should not, and will not, have to sit out 4-5 games. That's totally ridiculous.

You didn't even attend the trial or follow it closely. You should not be speaking on this subject, because you don't know what you're talking about. It was absolutely clear from attending the trial and following it closely, that the accuser was not raped. Like I said previously, even if you believed her story, that didn't even constitute rape, in my view. That's why the jury came down with not-guilty so quickly, and some jurors apparently said privately that the case was over after the accuser testified. Much more was proved and shown than what you just said. Just stop with your total nonsense. Talk about a complete lack of intellect.