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Spring Camp discussion: Defense / ST
- Thread starter BWahlberg
- Start date
3-3 Defense stops run inside out. Shaw would demand a double team at NT.
With Sims and Alford at DE the interior would be solid.
This would allow Buss with more blitz opportunities. With a mix from DBs.
Not knowing where the blitzing back is coming from causes confusion.
Middle is anchored and secured forcing run plays to the outside where OLBs and DB angles limit gains.
Great scheme for stopping run and option offenses. Also, allows DBs to keep play in front of them and spacing creates more INT opportunities.
Have no idea if 3-3 is the defense this year, however it would be nice to see.
With Sims and Alford at DE the interior would be solid.
This would allow Buss with more blitz opportunities. With a mix from DBs.
Not knowing where the blitzing back is coming from causes confusion.
Middle is anchored and secured forcing run plays to the outside where OLBs and DB angles limit gains.
Great scheme for stopping run and option offenses. Also, allows DBs to keep play in front of them and spacing creates more INT opportunities.
Have no idea if 3-3 is the defense this year, however it would be nice to see.
Diesel said:
Alford has a lot to prove to be in that starting spot that young. Remember he can still redshirt. I’ll take Tilleman in that role to start
My question is Olson a D-end for a 3-3-5? It seems with his skills he is a pass rushing d-end and I don’t see him and Favarroso being able to to both be that in 3 man front. Maybe they will have them both more outside shades/responsibilities But where is Sims then?
Don’t get me wrong, I want Olson on field however. Shaw, Sims, Favarosso, Olson...seem like 4 of our best defenders that need to be on field as much as possible.
Anyone guru on 3-3-5 and players are put with their strengths? Is there numerous philosophies to it?
mtgrizfankb
Well-known member
Sooo a 3-3-5 for everyone or a 3-3 stack...whatever you wanna call it. It has major pros and cons.
3-3-5 Many refer to as the spread of defense. Many teams use 3-3-5 especially if they emphasis speed.
The idea here is the that the D line pretty much is going to have to man up, eat up space and stay in their gaps. DE's will be lined up on the tackles and much blow the tackles back and turn the shoulders. IF they do this...it makes it very hard to stop the second wave of players which will be the OLB shooting the far gaps. The NT will sit on the ball the majority of the time and just drive home the A gaps...while sometimes they will try to hole both A's...actually most the time the NT will have one side he is favoring on the play and will leave the secondary A gap empty or to be filled by the Mike LB.
LBs- So the Mike in this situation is going to be a hardy play maker, tough nose player. His job will be to crash the A gap a lot. That means hes going to be running into 310+ O lineman and having to fill the gaps. sometimes tho...has to learn to not follow the ball. His job will be to protect the back side of the play or cut back lanes. He also will be big in falling back to inside slants and hooks. Other LBs are going to be stat makers. They are going to be the blitzers. as mentioned if the DE is eating the tackles space, then the LB is free to get around the edge or beat the b/c gaps to get the QB. They also will have to be responsible and not miss tackles. They are not a second line of D as in a 4-3... they are more often 1st contact on a RB or 1-1 with the slant or inside WR/TE. They will be able to play inside out...which protects the middle from easy passes but also leaves room to be beat on the outside if they dont have speed.
Backfield- CB's....well the CBs are gonna have the same job as normal in almost any system. All you people who hate the 6+ yard buffer at the line....look away. they are gonna line up 6-10 yards back and vary rarely will be pushing at the line. The reason? because they are responsible for holding the outside edge. remember the LBs are playing inside out. so why would we double stack the inside and leave the WR on the outside? you wouldn't so the CB is going to eat up space and play soft on the WRs.
SS- They are going to see the most man out of everyone on the D. They will be responsible for tackling in space and coming down on the screens and flat routes. Once again...speed kills here. They don't need to be huge bone crushers....just players with good balance...good tackling and speed...easy right?
FS- The fun safety...whoever plays here is going to love it. Hes going to roam...far and wide...in and out. Gonna be the safety valve over the top and the crasher over the middle. responsibility includes...finding the ball and attacking the ball.
overall: 3-3-5 fast, fun, dangerous and fast. Honestly in the big sky its probably a decent idea. Lots of outside passes and short quick routes. The ideas behind this D usually start in a zone cover 3 type look for most teams. advantage is..you can change looks quick and easy. cover 1, cover 2, cover 3. inside angles out and its tougher to cut back and inside screen on. The blitz is often and multiple with only 3 down lineman. The back end has more bodies and slide coverage's are common. It's usually harder for QBs to find their guys and pick apart things because there is more moving pieces. They have to read the zones every time...and cant sit on single man on man situations. Its usually effective VS high octane and speed offenses.
CONS!!!- the run game...the run game...the run game...the power pass game. teams that have 5 300+ pound o lineman are gonna be looking to cause some damage. They have the weight and personal advantage. even if the NT eats 2 guys and holds an A gap that still leaves one guard to feast on the mike. If the DE's don't force the tackles to collapse. Then you will have OLB's plugging wide c and b gaps....which is not good BTW. Also when you blitz often...you can get burned by being out of position...if the DEs and LBs are not very very focused on their job....its going to hurt. if the the mike follows the ball...its going to hurt.....if the CBs get too aggressive....its going to hurt.
My take: It's a decent idea vs the big sky. I think it's a decent defensive scheme overall. Its fun to watch if you like D. Its exciting and can create Turn overs and energize the team. It also can and would be frustrating to watch when players make mistakes. 5-10 yard runs are going to happen at a pace we don't like to see. However...in the RedZone when everything shrinks... It could be nice to have some many bodies flying around the edges. I would assume we go to a much more sturdy goal line set inside the 5. In the past we stayed in a 4-3 in goal line. We cant stay in a 3-3-5, so you will see maybe a 5-3 set in short or goal situations. The 3-3-5 will be nice to get all of our safety players game time. Robby, and Robertson, Epperly and Sandry will all get to play this way. We can also rotate in Safety's for Corners in situations to help depth concerns there. There will be trade offs for that..but it can help. The Oline and LBs is a question mark tho. We have good players up front and I don't really understand the Olson move in a 3-3-5. He would be a better edge rusher in a 4-3 or a OLB blitzing in my opinion. Also don't understand the Longoria move in a 3-3-5. hes over 300 pounds and have good jolt and force at the line. He would work well to slant a A gap. We'll be fine either way...we have good speed on D and the 3-3-5 will use that and is actually easy for the most part to learn. Time will tell.
3-3-5 Many refer to as the spread of defense. Many teams use 3-3-5 especially if they emphasis speed.
The idea here is the that the D line pretty much is going to have to man up, eat up space and stay in their gaps. DE's will be lined up on the tackles and much blow the tackles back and turn the shoulders. IF they do this...it makes it very hard to stop the second wave of players which will be the OLB shooting the far gaps. The NT will sit on the ball the majority of the time and just drive home the A gaps...while sometimes they will try to hole both A's...actually most the time the NT will have one side he is favoring on the play and will leave the secondary A gap empty or to be filled by the Mike LB.
LBs- So the Mike in this situation is going to be a hardy play maker, tough nose player. His job will be to crash the A gap a lot. That means hes going to be running into 310+ O lineman and having to fill the gaps. sometimes tho...has to learn to not follow the ball. His job will be to protect the back side of the play or cut back lanes. He also will be big in falling back to inside slants and hooks. Other LBs are going to be stat makers. They are going to be the blitzers. as mentioned if the DE is eating the tackles space, then the LB is free to get around the edge or beat the b/c gaps to get the QB. They also will have to be responsible and not miss tackles. They are not a second line of D as in a 4-3... they are more often 1st contact on a RB or 1-1 with the slant or inside WR/TE. They will be able to play inside out...which protects the middle from easy passes but also leaves room to be beat on the outside if they dont have speed.
Backfield- CB's....well the CBs are gonna have the same job as normal in almost any system. All you people who hate the 6+ yard buffer at the line....look away. they are gonna line up 6-10 yards back and vary rarely will be pushing at the line. The reason? because they are responsible for holding the outside edge. remember the LBs are playing inside out. so why would we double stack the inside and leave the WR on the outside? you wouldn't so the CB is going to eat up space and play soft on the WRs.
SS- They are going to see the most man out of everyone on the D. They will be responsible for tackling in space and coming down on the screens and flat routes. Once again...speed kills here. They don't need to be huge bone crushers....just players with good balance...good tackling and speed...easy right?
FS- The fun safety...whoever plays here is going to love it. Hes going to roam...far and wide...in and out. Gonna be the safety valve over the top and the crasher over the middle. responsibility includes...finding the ball and attacking the ball.
overall: 3-3-5 fast, fun, dangerous and fast. Honestly in the big sky its probably a decent idea. Lots of outside passes and short quick routes. The ideas behind this D usually start in a zone cover 3 type look for most teams. advantage is..you can change looks quick and easy. cover 1, cover 2, cover 3. inside angles out and its tougher to cut back and inside screen on. The blitz is often and multiple with only 3 down lineman. The back end has more bodies and slide coverage's are common. It's usually harder for QBs to find their guys and pick apart things because there is more moving pieces. They have to read the zones every time...and cant sit on single man on man situations. Its usually effective VS high octane and speed offenses.
CONS!!!- the run game...the run game...the run game...the power pass game. teams that have 5 300+ pound o lineman are gonna be looking to cause some damage. They have the weight and personal advantage. even if the NT eats 2 guys and holds an A gap that still leaves one guard to feast on the mike. If the DE's don't force the tackles to collapse. Then you will have OLB's plugging wide c and b gaps....which is not good BTW. Also when you blitz often...you can get burned by being out of position...if the DEs and LBs are not very very focused on their job....its going to hurt. if the the mike follows the ball...its going to hurt.....if the CBs get too aggressive....its going to hurt.
My take: It's a decent idea vs the big sky. I think it's a decent defensive scheme overall. Its fun to watch if you like D. Its exciting and can create Turn overs and energize the team. It also can and would be frustrating to watch when players make mistakes. 5-10 yard runs are going to happen at a pace we don't like to see. However...in the RedZone when everything shrinks... It could be nice to have some many bodies flying around the edges. I would assume we go to a much more sturdy goal line set inside the 5. In the past we stayed in a 4-3 in goal line. We cant stay in a 3-3-5, so you will see maybe a 5-3 set in short or goal situations. The 3-3-5 will be nice to get all of our safety players game time. Robby, and Robertson, Epperly and Sandry will all get to play this way. We can also rotate in Safety's for Corners in situations to help depth concerns there. There will be trade offs for that..but it can help. The Oline and LBs is a question mark tho. We have good players up front and I don't really understand the Olson move in a 3-3-5. He would be a better edge rusher in a 4-3 or a OLB blitzing in my opinion. Also don't understand the Longoria move in a 3-3-5. hes over 300 pounds and have good jolt and force at the line. He would work well to slant a A gap. We'll be fine either way...we have good speed on D and the 3-3-5 will use that and is actually easy for the most part to learn. Time will tell.
mtgrizfankb
Well-known member
Diesel said:
correction...it does well vs the outside option. Inside options and power options are very hit and miss vs a 3-3-5. Cal Poly could be a major concern.
33 Stack or 335 are both most effective if you've got LB/DB hybrids like Gavin Robertson, because the 2 interior safeties play a lot like OLB in running situations. A player like Herbert Gamboa would have loved this set up. Its also really easy to walk your safeties up and turn a 335 into a 5-3-3 for red zone and blitz packages.
brewskis said:
Getting the best 11 players on the field doesn’t ensure kicking ass. That’s why there is a new coaching staff and hopefully they get the best 11 in position and motvated to kick ass.
Nice to be talking a little football. Not everyone likes talking about schemes, I like scheme talk however at the end of the day coaches are going to run what they run.
Defense discipline is a direct result of good coaching...result from the last two years proves the need for mature coaching to implement clairity and discipline. Looking forward to the new season.
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