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Some not happy about Grizzlies Champions Center...
- Thread starter get'em_griz
- Start date
granitegriz
Well-known member
Short answer is yes CDA!
Bumping this because I found another article complaining about the new champions center. This time, the article comes from the Kaimin (which was written 3 hours ago) and cries foul claiming that it's bad timing for the construction of this new building, the donated money to this project should have been given to academics, yada yada yada. It complains that the $14 million donated to athletics would have been better served going to academics to cover the budget crisis, but chooses to ignore the fact that the UM Foundation received $53 million in 2015. I know this is beating a dead horse, but it's dumbfounding that people are still complaining about it while ignoring facts. :dead:
http://www.montanakaimin.com/opinion/article_44fc0be0-e0a1-11e5-a331-f7b2cd7cbd56.html?platform=hootsuite
http://www.montanakaimin.com/opinion/article_44fc0be0-e0a1-11e5-a331-f7b2cd7cbd56.html?platform=hootsuite
Griz90
Well-known member
Wow! Apparently free will is no longer acceptable in the Kaimin office…as in the freedom of a graduate of UM to freely donate his or her money wherever he or she wishes. The Kaimin used words such as “abomination… abhorrent…insane…brutal” in describing the audacity of individual alums being able to freely donate their hard-earned money where they see fit. As a graduate of the UM School of Journalism I have donated a fair amount of money to the UM Foundation and requested that it be designated for the J-School. As a fan of all things Grizzly I have also donated money to the Grizzly Scholarship Association, which provides scholarship money for student-athletes at UM. Being able to “earmark” my donations increases the chance that I as an alum will actually make a donation. Removing that ability will harm the university.
The misguided Kaimin editorial states that donors give too much money to athletics and that all donations should be directed to academics. Yet, in 2015 alone, $53 million was donated to the UM Foundation. Virtually every dime of Foundation money goes directly to academics, as it should. Far more money is donated to academics than athletics.
The off-the-mark Kaimin editorial fails to even acknowledge or recognize that athletics are part of the overall mission of a public institution. The Kaimin editorial wrongly implies that the new Champion's Center is an over-priced locker room for the football team. In truth, it is going to provide much needed meeting and training space for all of the sports teams at UM, male and female alike. Every student-athlete at UM will utilize the Champions Center, not just the football team. The more than 300 student-athletes currently enrolled at UM, and the thousands that came before them, represent nearly every academic department on campus. The current student-athlete average GPA is above the all-campus average, in spite of the incredible amount of time spent away from the classroom practicing and participating in athletic contests while representing the University of Montana. Those student-athletes are a cross-section of the campus and they deserve support. Athletics have always played a role in the overall experience of a public institution, dating back to the very first public colleges and universities in America. It is UM Athletic Department’s job to support athletics. The Athletic Department has done a fine job of upholding its part of the mission. The Kaimin editorial also took a cheap shot at UM athletes stating that “UM doesn’t need to reward a losing team with a champions center.” No one who has even a rudimentary understanding of sports would describe UM sports teams as “losers.” The UM Department of Athletics is well-respected nationwide and has absolutely dominated the Big Sky Conference for decades.
The Kaimin’s misguided editorial also attacked the Dennis Washington family for donating $7 million to the project . The Washington’s have given more money to the University of Montana than just about anyone else in its history and far more of their money has gone to academics than to athletics. Millions more!
Is the timing of the project bad? Sure it is. But you can’t blame the UM Athletic Department for the myriad of problems facing the university as a whole. As a UM alum and graduate of the Journalism Department I find the Kaimin editorial an abomination…poorly thought out and completely missing the mark.
The misguided Kaimin editorial states that donors give too much money to athletics and that all donations should be directed to academics. Yet, in 2015 alone, $53 million was donated to the UM Foundation. Virtually every dime of Foundation money goes directly to academics, as it should. Far more money is donated to academics than athletics.
The off-the-mark Kaimin editorial fails to even acknowledge or recognize that athletics are part of the overall mission of a public institution. The Kaimin editorial wrongly implies that the new Champion's Center is an over-priced locker room for the football team. In truth, it is going to provide much needed meeting and training space for all of the sports teams at UM, male and female alike. Every student-athlete at UM will utilize the Champions Center, not just the football team. The more than 300 student-athletes currently enrolled at UM, and the thousands that came before them, represent nearly every academic department on campus. The current student-athlete average GPA is above the all-campus average, in spite of the incredible amount of time spent away from the classroom practicing and participating in athletic contests while representing the University of Montana. Those student-athletes are a cross-section of the campus and they deserve support. Athletics have always played a role in the overall experience of a public institution, dating back to the very first public colleges and universities in America. It is UM Athletic Department’s job to support athletics. The Athletic Department has done a fine job of upholding its part of the mission. The Kaimin editorial also took a cheap shot at UM athletes stating that “UM doesn’t need to reward a losing team with a champions center.” No one who has even a rudimentary understanding of sports would describe UM sports teams as “losers.” The UM Department of Athletics is well-respected nationwide and has absolutely dominated the Big Sky Conference for decades.
The Kaimin’s misguided editorial also attacked the Dennis Washington family for donating $7 million to the project . The Washington’s have given more money to the University of Montana than just about anyone else in its history and far more of their money has gone to academics than to athletics. Millions more!
Is the timing of the project bad? Sure it is. But you can’t blame the UM Athletic Department for the myriad of problems facing the university as a whole. As a UM alum and graduate of the Journalism Department I find the Kaimin editorial an abomination…poorly thought out and completely missing the mark.
Hammer said:
Having built more than one large office/warehouse facility in my day, there are always unforseen circumstances. You're dealing with entities that may or may not share your sense of urgency as well - contractors, subs, inspectors, etc. Not wishing that it runs long - just coming down on the side of pragmatic.
bgbigdog said:
That depends on a lot of things....like, is the design complete (which I believe it is), has some of the groundwork already been done (I believe it has, relocation of utility lines, etc), and whether there's incentives built into the contract for the contractor & subs. We (my company) are in the middle of building a 200,000 sq ft office building and 1700 space parking garage and it will have been completed in 18 months...I would think a 45,000 square foot champions center could be built in that time.
The best part about this Kaimin editorial? No need to put a name to it, you can talk as tough as you want.
bgbigdog said:
Yeah I am a complete newbie to this construction thing so thanks for clueing me in! :roll:
One of the contractors bidding this project has just completed a 30 mil 5 story office building in Butte in about 16 months. Like Az said, the design is complete and it isn't really that complex of a project. And I think the contractor that is low bidder/selected will have a strict deadline to meet. Its not my sense of urgency I think the U will make it clear that the project must be completed for the 2017 season.
If it's a Union job it could go either way.bgbigdog said:
MrTitleist said:
In fairness to that it was drafted by the editorial staff, which I'm assuming is identified in the mast head or somewhere on the editorial pages. Most editorials, Ok'd by an editorial staff regardless of publication doesn't receive a byline
....still it was a piece of garbage
Pretty big words out of someone without the balls to put their name on it. I have an opinion...make a serious fucking attempt to attract students to your college and they will. Hint, it isn't by having commercials with a break dancer and some stoner tool bag tell people how super cool and totally laid back things are.
I'm an Asset Manager for a development corp and three bids is adequate. I don't know who the three contractors are but I'm assuming they're on an approved/vetted vendor list. I hate public fund bidding...lowest wins no matter how terrible your previous dealings has been with contractor...we don't do work for Housing Authorities now because of it...headache.zengriz said:
Grizbeer
Well-known member
From teh editorial:
A losing team? strange statement for "journalists". 1 losing season in the last 30 years, 3 years ago, makes this team and program losers?
Imaging how much good the $110,000 per year in student fees could do if diverted from the Kamin to UM at large. That much could pay to keep a few cut professors teaching for a few more global centuries, or at least cover all of the recent budget shortfall. or at least it could pay for 10 more hours per week plus benefits for the part time personal assistant to the Women, Gender and Sexuality Studies students (who finds scholarships for students and keeps them on track), whose loss of 10 hours per week (plus benefits) is what drove this editorial.
then the Kamin would be free from the corporate restraints that keep it from changing its name and mission to what it truly wants to be this year - The Tranny Weekly. And UM would be free to keep accepting donations to the athletic department, of which the UM administration charges an administrative fee for every dollar raised and spent, money that is used to pay for things like part time administrative assistants for the WGSS program, and to pay the "professors" in that program to create sexual awareness and stop sexual abuse programs.
A losing team? strange statement for "journalists". 1 losing season in the last 30 years, 3 years ago, makes this team and program losers?
Imaging how much good the $110,000 per year in student fees could do if diverted from the Kamin to UM at large. That much could pay to keep a few cut professors teaching for a few more global centuries, or at least cover all of the recent budget shortfall. or at least it could pay for 10 more hours per week plus benefits for the part time personal assistant to the Women, Gender and Sexuality Studies students (who finds scholarships for students and keeps them on track), whose loss of 10 hours per week (plus benefits) is what drove this editorial.
then the Kamin would be free from the corporate restraints that keep it from changing its name and mission to what it truly wants to be this year - The Tranny Weekly. And UM would be free to keep accepting donations to the athletic department, of which the UM administration charges an administrative fee for every dollar raised and spent, money that is used to pay for things like part time administrative assistants for the WGSS program, and to pay the "professors" in that program to create sexual awareness and stop sexual abuse programs.
UMGriz75
Well-known member
One of the key indicators of Main Hall incompetence is the approach to "recruiting." UM was very good at it under George Dennison, the results speak for themselves. It wasn't big on pamphlets and advertisements, but was very good at positive public relations. Dennison himself was a terrific recruiter.dupuyer griz said:
Engstrom of course decided to make a very public "PC" approach at the outset of his administration that simply and quickly blew up in his face. Compared to Cruzado's handling of a music professor run sexually amok, with faculty and staff knowledge, to the point that the high school music teachers across the state were refusing to allow him on premises -- never heard about that one did you? There's a reason. -- Engstrom went the "full confessional," followed by two public hangings that he thought would establish his Liberal bona fides.
No one, in their right minds could have thought that would have a positive recruiting message: women were prey and men were predators, predators that would be pre-judged and their civil rights removed -- But, there he was right out in front of the mob, leading it forward. It had worked so well at Duke University, what could possibly go wrong?
Students stopped applying.
As that focused then on UM's administrative recruiting efforts, it was obvious how poor they were in the absence of a strong and positive leader. In some odd fashion, the blame was placed on the lack of pamphlets, not the absence of a strong, positive leader.
With great fanfare, UM "redesigned" its public relations. It went from being "THE University of Montana" to just "University of Montana." One of several, apparently. The ad agency that thought of that one replaced "Truth is Light," -- a neoclassic University motto of great dignity -- with "Thrive," inspiring posters of which are all around campus, and replaced UM's standard neoclassical logos with a limp lightning bolt that was supposed to resemble a mountain ridge, ostensibly Mount Sentinel, which looks to be in a pretty weak mountain range, and adopted a Helvetica type style that lost favor in the 1970s.
Then, the "Welcome to Montana State University" email blast fiasco. That underscored what Main Hall was. There was no monitoring in place, no feedback, no oversight. Frankly, that could not have happened under George Dennison. He wanted to see everything first. He took his job seriously. It also underscored Engstrom's hands-off approach -- the one that had him signing the DOE agreement without reading it. They had hired a recruiting firm. That was all it took. He didn't need to DO ANYTHING which fit his style perfectly.
And of course it was an unmitigated disaster. A million bucks down the rathole and a thousand more students lost.
Gosh, "let's change agencies!!" That's the ticket! Of course, the new folks were burdened with the legacy of the logo changes; can't undo that expensive mistake! It would "look bad!!!"
Another million bucks. Bad letters, bad pamphlets, and, oh, a series of generic television ads of the kind that such agencies were peddling to universities all across the country. And just that -- completely generic, formulaic, and required no imagination or even knowledge of the University itself -- just disjointed campus scenes showing cool stuff like break dancing and interviews with "diversity" students that showed that the UM campus had all the strengths of any other campus in the country, students that had accents! They are flacccid, the scripts could apply to any University in the country and probably do. The one ad that did mention academic achievement -- Rhodes, Fullbright, etc -- did so on the overlay of an uninspiring student with a visible and painful-looking case of acne sitting morosely in a class-room making desperate looking attempts to engage in some class discussion.
The ads are unbelievably bad. They are beyond stupid. But that underscores what goes on in Main Hall. Nobody has responsibility. No one says "no." No, after blowing another million, and losing another 1,500 students, UM figured out -- as part of the budget cutting process! -- that it can do just as good a job recruiting by taking the tasks in-house and doing the mailing lists and high school graduation research in Lommason Center -- just like they were doing when they started losing thousands of students! But, that's not the bad part. The bad part is that UM paid a million bucks to an Iowa company with a so-so track record to do exactly what UM had already been doing, in-house. Exactly what was the contract supposed to accomplish?
There's that "Main Hall Competency" problem again. No one could ask that question. "These guys aren't proposing to do anything differently than what we are already doing. What's the point?" Seriously, Engstrom is so overwhelmed and inept, he cannot make those kind of analyses. And anybody else that could have is gone.
That's the key here: incompetence is hiring incompetence. It is now an established track record. Nothing could be clearer than in how Engstrom has handled these successive outside contract fiascoes.
The bad part -- yes, "there is a bad part" -- is that nearly every study on the point, points to athletic team success as being a leverage toward increased enrollment, higher selectivity in applications, higher average ACT and SAT scores, and larger public and private support. We can assume those have been in play at UM. In other words, all of this hemorrhaging under Engstrom would have been much worse but for the athletic team success -- a key positive point that Engstrom himself, in the only bold action he ever took, nearly scuttled -- and but for that UM's enrollment declines would have been worse, possibly and even probably much worse, something the Kaimin editor ought to think long and seriously about, as should the Bored of Regents.
UMGriz75 said:
Good Lord. Do we not have an excellent business school with a marketing department? Why outsource this crap?....pay a few MBA/business school students to do this work...put them on a scholarship....My bet is they would do far better than what is happening now.
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