So Now What?

[Colter_Nuanez56]

Posted this in another thread but fits here too...


Big Sky champions in the NCAA Tournament since Montana beat Nevada in 2006:

2007 - No. 2 UCLA 70, No. 15 Weber State 42 (UCLA advanced to Final Four)

2008 – No. 1 Kansas 85, No. 16 Porltand State 61 (Kansas won national title)

2009 – No. 4 Xavier 77, No. 13 Portland State 59 (Xavier to Sweet 16)

2010 – No. 3 New Mexico 62, No. 14 Montana 57 (New Mexico lost in second round)

2011 – No. 6 San Diego State 68, No. 11 Northern Colorado 50 (SDSU to Sweet 16)

2012 – No. 4 Wisconsin 73, No. 13 Montana 49 (Wisconsin to Sweet 16)

2013 – No. 4 Syracuse 81, No. 13 Montana 34 (Syracuse to Final 4)

2014 – No. 4 Arizona 68, No. 13 Weber State 59 (Arizona to the Elite 8)

2015 – No. 4 Georgetown 84, No. 13 Eastern Washington 74 (Georgetown lost in second round)

2016 – No. 2 Xavier 71, No. 15 Weber State 53 (Xavier lost in second round)

2017 – No. 2 Arizona 100, No. 15 North Dakota 82 (Arizona to the Sweet 16)

2018 – No. 3 Michigan 61, No. 14 Montana 47 (Michigan national runner-up)

2019 – No. 2 Michigan 74, No. 15 Montana 55

 

[Pepto Bismol]

Stay the course, fellas.

For the second year in a row (and hopefully the last), I just wanted to compliment you guys on a fun forum and a good basketball team.

As a Michigan fan, I saw most of the same stuff you guys did. Montana was out of their element for the first 10 minutes of the game - maybe more. I don't know how you fix that. That's obviously a product of playing in a low-major conference and then all of a sudden running up against a top national program. That's a steep hill to climb. Of Michigan's last 11 games leading up to the tournament, 9 were against tournament teams including 3 against arch-rival and Top-5'ish Michigan State. It's not surprising to see that level of disparity, especially considering Michigan saw generally what you guys do and how you do it a year ago. Any surprise factor was out the window.

I disagree with the few that think DeCuire erred by not playing your freshman big guy. Some of your easiest baskets were created by the weird mismatch of Teske trying to keep up with Pridgett. That was your only advantage on the offensive end. If you put the big guy out there, Teske is back in his comfort zone. The one advantage you had was speed and quickness. You'd basically be giving that up just to not be so far behind in the size category -- and you'd still be way undersized overall. Just my opinion.

Looking up my posts, last year I said you guys will be scary next year with all of your returning pieces and NCAA experience. The selection committee screwed you by pairing you with the one team that your experience wouldn't matter against. But I'll say the same thing again. Win the Big Sky again. Build that reputation. Get a 14 or a 13 and draw somebody unfamiliar who maybe isn't as good defensively. Sprinkle in a little bit of size and keep hounding on defense. Worse teams have won a tournament game.

John Beilein is statistically one of the best tournament coaches in the nation when you compare his performance to his seed expectation. Michigan the last two years has been arguably the best defensive team in the nation. This was a bad draw for you guys last year and the worst possible draw this year because Michigan knew all about Rorie and Oguine and Moorehead and Falls. Those weren't just names on the scouting report.

Congrats on your championship season. Hang your banner. And best of luck in the future.

 

[tourist]

I agree AZ. This was a talented team. I did not think we would beat Michigan but I did not expect this type of game. The Big Sigh schedule strikes again....

We just need to play a good game for once, we play to tight...I mean there were enough open shots to make this a close game coming down the stretch and put pressure on Michigan, but I feel like our guys play with all the pressure, like they know if I don't make every shot we have no chance...But that's actually not the case, we just needed a really good shooting night to bring that game down to the wire we didn't need to make everyshot and shoot some miracle percentage...but watching our guys they look like they psych themselves out and play with the pressure of having to be perfect

You mean like layups and dunks. f***, we make even THOSE and we have 12 more points. :lol:

Three observations:
The Big Sigh didn't make this game a runaway, the Griz did. If you don't take care of your own business, you can't expect to blame it on anyone else. Future consideration of the Griz for dance appearances will be weighed by the poor shooting and laughable moments, not their underlying talent. A 15 seed seems the current glass ceiling, and appropriate.
It appeared they did psych themselves out, but they have to answer the 'why' question.
Layups and dunks. I watched my usual style, with another channel the main event(hockey this time), then coming back to the game. One time great camera shot of a break away Griz layup....and miss :roll: ... another side view of a nice drive and power dunk...miss... ...and the game got even more lopsided.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Purdue is leading #14 ODU by just 9 with 3 minutes left. ANOTHER competitive game in the 13-15 seed range.

Just never Montana.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game?gameId=300770167

And that was the last time. ancient history. Nobody outside of Montana fans remembers that.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Looking up my posts, last year I said you guys will be scary next year with all of your returning pieces and NCAA experience. The selection committee screwed you by pairing you with the one team that your experience wouldn't matter against. But I'll say the same thing again. Win the Big Sky again. Build that reputation. Get a 14 or a 13 and draw somebody unfamiliar who maybe isn't as good defensively. Sprinkle in a little bit of size and keep hounding on defense. Worse teams have won a tournament game.

Congrats on your championship season. Hang your banner. And best of luck in the future.

I wish we had more posters here like Pepto.

But I don't think we'll ever see the North side of a 15 seed with tournament performances like we've had in recent years.

 

[BadlandsGrizFan]

I was discussing this with a close friend of mine who was heavily involved with UM basketball and played in the tourney back in the day.

He said it will almost always depend on who Montana draws, we can play with almost anyone west of Minnesota. But he said playing against the teams East of there, its just a whole different brand and style of basketball, which we dont match up well with. Which I thought was interesting, but it makes sense.

 

[BadlandsGrizFan]

Purdue is leading #14 ODU by just 9 with 3 minutes left. ANOTHER competitive game in the 13-15 seed range.

Just never Montana.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game?gameId=300770167

And that was the last time. ancient history. Nobody outside of Montana fans remembers that.

I remember when we BEAT Nevada, werent we like a 12 seed that year?

 

[teejay406]

It is always tough to find the good in games like this one but here are mine:

1) I feel like Timmy finally arrived as a leader on the team. His stats don't blow you away in this game but he wasn't shrinking from the pressure. Made a couple of good shots and was flying around the court chasing lose balls. I think that same spirit that maybe gets him in the dog house with coaches sometimes can also be a real benefit in games like this. If coach (hopefully TD) can better channel that energy next year I think we are in good shape at the point.

2) Apart from a couple stretches in the game Sayeed played well. His ceiling is high next year, especially with Mack taking some of the pressure off Sayeed on the blocks and allowing him to utilize his mid-range game.

3) I hope we get Dorsey back for one more. Dude just makes shots when given the opportunity.

4) Lots of question marks for the rest of the positions and roles but with the quality transfers we've got coming in as well as a stellar freshman class, it is easy to see how we can get back here next year.

Overall, I'm disappointed in the outcome but not the team. We've got a good thing going regardless of the limitations of our weak one bid league. Hopefully we keep the winning tradition alive and one of these years we'll break through.

Thanks to the seniors who made winning the big sky an expectation rather than a goal. Here's to the next class who will help us take that next step.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Let's sort those by margin of loss:

Big Sky champions in the NCAA Tournament since Montana beat Nevada in 2006:

2010 – No. 3 New Mexico 62, No. 14 Montana 57 (New Mexico lost in second round)
2014 – No. 4 Arizona 68, No. 13 Weber State 59 (Arizona to the Elite 8)
2015 – No. 4 Georgetown 84, No. 13 Eastern Washington 74 (Georgetown lost in second round)
2018 – No. 3 Michigan 61, No. 14 Montana 47 (Michigan national runner-up)
2016 – No. 2 Xavier 71, No. 15 Weber State 53 (Xavier lost in second round)
2009 – No. 4 Xavier 77, No. 13 Portland State 59 (Xavier to Sweet 16)
2011 – No. 6 San Diego State 68, No. 11 Northern Colorado 50 (SDSU to Sweet 16)
2017 – No. 2 Arizona 100, No. 15 North Dakota 82 (Arizona to the Sweet 16)
2019 – No. 2 Michigan 74, No. 15 Montana 55
2008 – No. 1 Kansas 85, No. 16 Portland State 61 (Kansas won national title)
2012 – No. 4 Wisconsin 73, No. 13 Montana 49 (Wisconsin to Sweet 16)
2007 - No. 2 UCLA 70, No. 15 Weber State 42 (UCLA advanced to Final Four)
2013 – No. 4 Syracuse 81, No. 13 Montana 34 (Syracuse to Final 4)

What I see is a lot of Montana at or near the bottom when it comes to margin of loss. I also see the BSC as basically incapable of being even remotely competitive.

 

[AZGrizFan]

I was discussing this with a close friend of mine who was heavily involved with UM basketball and played in the tourney back in the day.

He said it will almost always depend on who Montana draws, we can play with almost anyone west of Minnesota. But he said playing against the teams East of there, its just a whole different brand and style of basketball, which we dont match up well with. Which I thought was interesting, but it makes sense.

We got blown out by a bad U of A team this year.

Our claim to fame this year was going 2-1 against tournament teams on our schedule.

 

[moneyball]

Not until the Big Sky stops being terrible at basketball. #15 seeds will always get wrecked.

Tell that to Bradley.

So you disagree that until the Big Sky stops being pretty bad at basketball, and is stuck with these 14-15 seeds, that we're generally gonna see games like this? Because 15 seeds generally get wrecked. A few quasi-close games, and that one anomaly of a year, aside.

There are tons of close games in the 13-14-15 seed range. Just NEVER Montana. Why is that? Either he we’re just patently unlucky in our draws or we’re really a play-in team masquerading as a 15 seed.

Finally someone gets it. "we’re really a play-in team masquerading as a 15 seed." The big sky Men's and women's sports programs have the same problem. We can't recruit the best players. Why? Wayne tinkle $6.6 million. DeCuire's base salary would increase from $155,000 to $175,000 a year, plus incentives. If we ever want to compete Nationally we have to have better coaches that will stay long enough to build the program.$$$$ Coach DeCuire would be nuts to stay here from an economic standpoint. The lady Griz situation is even worse because we have a horrible coach that can't coach her self out of a paper bag let alone build a top level program. The men are ranked 124th 124th Montana Big Sky 26-8 9-5 5-1 10-2 2-0. (Woman 187th) That means 123 other teams should have the opportunity for the big dance before the Griz. Don't get me wrong I love the Griz and am very proud of their effort. I am a huge fan of Coach Decuire. The results of the Michigan game are right on par with my prediction of a 20 point spread. They did what they should have done. Congrats for showing tremendous heart and fight!!! (disclaimer: the figures above were taken from the internet so don't attack me if they are off a bit. the point is still made)

 

[AZGrizFan]

If we ever want to compete Nationally we have to have better coaches that will stay long enough to build the program.$$$$ Coach DeCuire would be nuts to stay here from an economic standpoint.

I disagree. If DeCuire stayed, what more is he going to accomplish? How much more could he "build" this team? He had four seniors on this squad...arguable the greatest senior class in school history....we still get blown out. "Building the program"....not sure what that even means at this point.

 

[Silenoz]

Purdue is leading #14 ODU by just 9 with 3 minutes left. ANOTHER competitive game in the 13-15 seed range.

Just never Montana.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game?gameId=300770167

And that was the last time. ancient history. Nobody outside of Montana fans remembers that.

It was only a couple appearances ago for us. That's just the reality for Big Sky basketball right now. Hoping to make the tournament and maybe not get blown out.

 

[CFallsGriz]

Let's sort those by margin of loss:

Big Sky champions in the NCAA Tournament since Montana beat Nevada in 2006:

2010 – No. 3 New Mexico 62, No. 14 Montana 57 (New Mexico lost in second round)
2014 – No. 4 Arizona 68, No. 13 Weber State 59 (Arizona to the Elite 8)
2015 – No. 4 Georgetown 84, No. 13 Eastern Washington 74 (Georgetown lost in second round)
2018 – No. 3 Michigan 61, No. 14 Montana 47 (Michigan national runner-up)
2016 – No. 2 Xavier 71, No. 15 Weber State 53 (Xavier lost in second round)
2009 – No. 4 Xavier 77, No. 13 Portland State 59 (Xavier to Sweet 16)
2011 – No. 6 San Diego State 68, No. 11 Northern Colorado 50 (SDSU to Sweet 16)
2017 – No. 2 Arizona 100, No. 15 North Dakota 82 (Arizona to the Sweet 16)
2019 – No. 2 Michigan 74, No. 15 Montana 55
2008 – No. 1 Kansas 85, No. 16 Portland State 61 (Kansas won national title)
2012 – No. 4 Wisconsin 73, No. 13 Montana 49 (Wisconsin to Sweet 16)
2007 - No. 2 UCLA 70, No. 15 Weber State 42 (UCLA advanced to Final Four)
2013 – No. 4 Syracuse 81, No. 13 Montana 34 (Syracuse to Final 4)

What I see is a lot of Montana at or near the bottom when it comes to margin of loss. I also see the BSC as basically incapable of being even remotely competitive.

What you also see is Montana as the most frequent participant.

 

[CFallsGriz]

If we ever want to compete Nationally we have to have better coaches that will stay long enough to build the program.$$$$ Coach DeCuire would be nuts to stay here from an economic standpoint.

I disagree. If DeCuire stayed, what more is he going to accomplish? How much more could he "build" this team? He had four seniors on this squad...arguable the greatest senior class in school history....we still get blown out. "Building the program"....not sure what that even means at this point.

So, how did they do it in '06??

 

[AZGrizFan]

Let's sort those by margin of loss:

Big Sky champions in the NCAA Tournament since Montana beat Nevada in 2006:

2010 – No. 3 New Mexico 62, No. 14 Montana 57 (New Mexico lost in second round)
2014 – No. 4 Arizona 68, No. 13 Weber State 59 (Arizona to the Elite 8)
2015 – No. 4 Georgetown 84, No. 13 Eastern Washington 74 (Georgetown lost in second round)
2018 – No. 3 Michigan 61, No. 14 Montana 47 (Michigan national runner-up)
2016 – No. 2 Xavier 71, No. 15 Weber State 53 (Xavier lost in second round)
2009 – No. 4 Xavier 77, No. 13 Portland State 59 (Xavier to Sweet 16)
2011 – No. 6 San Diego State 68, No. 11 Northern Colorado 50 (SDSU to Sweet 16)
2017 – No. 2 Arizona 100, No. 15 North Dakota 82 (Arizona to the Sweet 16)
2019 – No. 2 Michigan 74, No. 15 Montana 55
2008 – No. 1 Kansas 85, No. 16 Portland State 61 (Kansas won national title)
2012 – No. 4 Wisconsin 73, No. 13 Montana 49 (Wisconsin to Sweet 16)
2007 - No. 2 UCLA 70, No. 15 Weber State 42 (UCLA advanced to Final Four)
2013 – No. 4 Syracuse 81, No. 13 Montana 34 (Syracuse to Final 4)

What I see is a lot of Montana at or near the bottom when it comes to margin of loss. I also see the BSC as basically incapable of being even remotely competitive.

What you also see is Montana as the most frequent participant.

Well that's great if our only goal is to get there.

 

[Jaredkuehn]

Looking up my posts, last year I said you guys will be scary next year with all of your returning pieces and NCAA experience. The selection committee screwed you by pairing you with the one team that your experience wouldn't matter against. But I'll say the same thing again. Win the Big Sky again. Build that reputation. Get a 14 or a 13 and draw somebody unfamiliar who maybe isn't as good defensively. Sprinkle in a little bit of size and keep hounding on defense. Worse teams have won a tournament game.

Congrats on your championship season. Hang your banner. And best of luck in the future.

I wish we had more posters here like Pepto.

But I don't think we'll ever see the North side of a 15 seed with tournament performances like we've had in recent years.

I can't imagine that selection committees are looking at previous performances as part of their selection criteria. If Weber State or Northern Colorado had won the conference and the tournament, I don't think they get seeded any differently than a Montana team.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Purdue is leading #14 ODU by just 9 with 3 minutes left. ANOTHER competitive game in the 13-15 seed range.

Just never Montana.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game?gameId=300770167

And that was the last time. ancient history. Nobody outside of Montana fans remembers that.

It was only a couple appearances ago for us. That's just the reality for Big Sky basketball right now. Hoping to make the tournament and maybe not get blown out.

I realize that's the reality. The question is, WHY? We had three guys on the court last night who signed P-5 LOI's. Yet it looked like I was watching the Spurs vs an "Under 6-foot" league champion for most of the night...and it's been like that pretty much every year since the 2012 win.

Every year we perform like crap....and we wonder why we can't get above a 15 seed? It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy...the worse you play, the harder your next opponent becomes.

 

[moneyball]

If we ever want to compete Nationally we have to have better coaches that will stay long enough to build the program.$$$$ Coach DeCuire would be nuts to stay here from an economic standpoint.

I disagree. If DeCuire stayed, what more is he going to accomplish? How much more could he "build" this team? He had four seniors on this squad...arguable the greatest senior class in school history....we still get blown out. "Building the program"....not sure what that even means at this point.

I agree to a point. But without Him we start over..again like when Tinkle left. The Griz only need a few key "big-men" and we could potentially get over the hump. We have some great talent and a great coach. Akoh would have been a big help maybe a game changer. Why does a team like Gonzaga out of the West Coast Conference reach the top. Mark Few Gonzaga $1.37 salary(he is one of the lowest paid). He has stayed and it pays off. Follow the money. Give DeCuire $1mil and see what happens. I know I'm dreaming...but hey.

 

[Proud Griz Man]

Good post. I concur. If Rorie and Oguine and Morehead and KENDAL MANUEL get some shots to fall, it might have been a much closer game result. Manuel had no luck with his shot last night.

Stay the course, fellas. For the second year in a row (and hopefully the last), I just wanted to compliment you guys on a fun forum and a good basketball team.

As a Michigan fan, I saw most of the same stuff you guys did. . . . Get a 14 or a 13 and draw somebody unfamiliar who maybe isn't as good defensively. Sprinkle in a little bit of size and keep hounding on defense. Worse teams have won a tournament game.

John Beilein is statistically one of the best tournament coaches in the nation when you compare his performance to his seed expectation. Michigan the last two years has been arguably the best defensive team in the nation. This was a bad draw for you guys last year and the worst possible draw this year because Michigan knew all about Rorie and Oguine and Moorehead and Falls. Those weren't just names on the scouting report.

Congrats on your championship season. Hang your banner. And best of luck in the future.