Revamped UM Student Recruitment

[Griz til I die]

Hey I asked an honest question that I was hoping to get an answer from you on. I know you’re not referring to me though.

I didn’t see your question. In Moab in the new rv.

My questions were what is a campus tour supposed to look like? And also pre-COVID, was UM’s enrollment projected to go up, and if so by how much?

 

[PlayerRep]

I didn’t see your question. In Moab in the new rv.

My questions were what is a campus tour supposed to look like? And also pre-COVID, was UM’s enrollment projected to go up, and if so by how much?

Don't know, don't know. My impression was that it was thought that enrollment numbers would be better, if not much better, pre-covid. On tours, my kids' friends and our relatives/friends have all liked their UM tours and never said anything negative. My kids' friends who did tours did good ones. I haven't done one of their tours for 5 or 6 years. Off to Arches National Park, and trip up Colorado River.

 

[argh!]

Long time lurker, second time poster, MSU alum for full disclosure.

Aside from the predictable contradiction from PR, U of M obviously has a serious recruiting problem (among potentially others pointed out: unionized faculty "doing time" and not adjusting to reality, tenure, degrees with questionable value, etc.). It's well known among parents of college age kids in MT who are pissed if they're UM alum, sadly giddy if MSU alum.

The no-longer-new U of M President should have fixed that issue asap if only for the children of alumni. U of M obviously has passionate alumni. Several are good friends of mine from high school who can't stand that their kids chose MSU over U of M, these kids for the most part couldn't care less where their parents went, and don't want to attend a school with a perception that it's failing. For kids about to graduate from high school, perception is reality. My guess with respect to recruitment and welcoming students is that Bodnar's hands are tied by classified/union staff that have no incentive to change the culture and perception. That's a total guess with zero data to back it up, but what else could it be? Bodnar's qualifications seem solid, but he's been at U of M for long enough and his performance should at least be questioned. If his performance matches other liberal arts universities, my opinion is he gets a pass, pat on the back and maybe a free U of M cardigan for holding it together while adjustments are made: honestly not an easy task. If not, Regents should start performance-based measures if he wants to stay. Another leadership change will obviously look awful and create even more enrollment decline though - and frankly might not have any positive impact on enrollment in the long run.

Directly related: I always look forward to the highly prepared press releases from U of M's PR group after enrollment comes out, then Lee Newspapers licking it up with "flagship" mentioned as many times as possible. MSU's aren't quite as bad, but that's most likely my bias. Keep wondering what good news shtick will be in the next press release. We should start a new thread with material for UM PR (Public Relations, not Player Rep). I'll start, you're welcome "U of M is excited about the dramatic increase in freshmen enrollment of students of Slavic descent. Our Slavic descended student population has increased 32% since 1983! President Bodnar received a plaque from the North West US Slavic Descendant's Baking and Costume Club recognizing this achievement! All 12 UM students who pay attention to their Slavic descent are thinking of having a quarterly meeting...."

good post.

 

[GrizLA]

UM should consider going private and instead of lowering standards to meet state "requirements", raise them and attract good students, good faculty, and true freedom.

 

[SoldierGriz]

UM should consider going private and instead of lowering standards to meet state "requirements", raise them and attract good students, good faculty, and true freedom.

I may have NEVER agreed with anything you've posted, ever. But, this idea is transformational. Go private...get smaller and elite.

Hell, it's better than everything they are doing now.

 

[p8nted]

UM should consider going private and instead of lowering standards to meet state "requirements", raise them and attract good students, good faculty, and true freedom.

I wonder how much cash it would take to buy all the land and buildings UM sits on from the State?

 

[Spanky2]

UM should consider going private and instead of lowering standards to meet state "requirements", raise them and attract good students, good faculty, and true freedom.

I wonder how much cash it would take to buy all the land and buildings UM sits on from the State?

Doubt the right buyer would need much cash. The State would probably jump on the chance to unload everything.

 

[kemajic]

Encouraging that my email that I sent Saturday and posted here was responded to by Ms. Kreda (who has been on the job about 3 weeks) on Sunday and by President Bodnar this morning at 6:44 am. I won't post them here, but I can say there was no element of denial or excuses. I get the impression that Ms. Kreda is charged with producing positive change. I would encourage feedback to her; she is in the process of getting the lay of the land and indicated that my feedback was very timely for her. She likely has to build a case for the swamp that we are, in fact, in deep sh!t.

 

[Spanky2]

Encouraging that my email that I sent Saturday and posted here was responded to by Ms. Kreda (who has been on the job about 3 weeks) on Sunday and by President Bodnar this morning at 6:44 am. I won't post them here, but I can say there was no element of denial or excuses. I get the impression that Ms. Kreda is charged with producing positive change. I would encourage feedback to her; she is in the process of getting the lay of the land and indicated that my feedback was very timely for her. She likely has to build a case for the swamp that we are, in fact, in deep sh!t.

Good to hear they both responded.

 

[p8nted]

I didn’t see your question. In Moab in the new rv.

My questions were what is a campus tour supposed to look like? And also pre-COVID, was UM’s enrollment projected to go up, and if so by how much?

My sons graduated from Billings West. We visited several schools as they wanted out of state. At Oregon State, we set up a visit. Walking into admissions and there was a display up with their names welcoming them to campus. At the office, they were greeted with a personalized folder with info and a schedule. A student took them on a tour, since they are engineers it leaned to the science areas. They met with a professor and discussed his research and study at OSU. Wife and I were given a coupon for a coffee at the student union while they toured. It was first class.

Univ of Wyo was similar with tours and personalized welcomes. At Wyo, the professor let them play with his robotics project and showed the role students played in his research.

Other were similar like UNR, and Washington State.

Other Big schools were less personal. Univ of Washington, Utah, and Univ of Colorado they were just a number and a face in the crowd.

The experience really varies. Well it did in 2007 anyway.

 

[PlayerRep]

I know that tours and contacts that schools have with/for prospective students are important. However, if some of you are saying kids, or your kids, are making college decisions based on the quality of the tour, I don't know what to say. I can assure that none of my 5 kids made decisions based on tours, or on general school recruiting. They looked longer and deeper at the schools they chose. One of my kids graduated in May, so some of my personal data is recent.

I am all for all of the MT schools, including UM and MSU. They all have pro's and con's. Lots of Missoula kids choose MSU over UM these days. I'm fine with MSU. My stepdad was a professor at MSU.

 

[p8nted]

I know that tours and contacts that schools have with/for prospective students are important. However, if some of you are saying kids, or your kids, are making college decisions based on the quality of the tour, I don't know what to say. I can assure that none of my 5 kids made decisions based on tours, or on general school recruiting. They looked longer and deeper at the schools they chose. One of my kids graduated in May, so some of my personal data is recent.

I am all for all of the MT schools, including UM and MSU. They all have pro's and con's. Lots of Missoula kids choose MSU over UM these days. I'm fine with MSU. My stepdad was a professor at MSU.

I think most students who visit a campus, for a tour, have already done homework on programs offered and the finances of the college they are visiting. Tours are to help make a final decision and most certainly can tip the scales one way or the other based on facilities, campus, and community feel.

 

[SoldierGriz]

Tours?

Has UM been added to the Montana ghost town circuit yet?

This problem has zero to do with tours.

 

[noncasualobserver]

Tours?

Has UM been added to the Montana ghost town circuit yet?

This problem has zero to do with tours.

My opinion: I agree. The tours are only a symptom of a broken culture. People have noticed this culture and made their choices. The tours reflect an attitude of entitlement, still riding the wave of when UM was in high cotton, and the worst of academia: "you're lucky we're here". UM's past the tipping point for the time being but has nothing to lose by trying to fix the impressions they give parents and potential students.

Enrollment will bottom out (I think it already has) and, IMHO, it will start to improve and, who knows, could be doing very well in a few years. That's what's best for the State, plus the UM tribe in Helena will finally feel like the world is on the right path again vs. their general un-hidden/blatant consternation that MSU is kicking butt.

 

[CatGrad-UMGradStu]

Tours?

Has UM been added to the Montana ghost town circuit yet?

This problem has zero to do with tours.

My opinion: I agree. The tours are only a symptom of a broken culture. People have noticed this culture and made their choices. The tours reflect an attitude of entitlement, still riding the wave of when UM was in high cotton, and the worst of academia: "you're lucky we're here". UM's past the tipping point for the time being but has nothing to lose by trying to fix the impressions they give parents and potential students.

Enrollment will bottom out (I think it already has) and, IMHO, it will start to improve and, who knows, could be doing very well in a few years. That's what's best for the State, plus the UM tribe in Helena will finally feel like the world is on the right path again vs. their general un-hidden/blatant consternation that MSU is kicking butt.

Pride before the fall. Here's a quick review of a book written by a pretty nice kid who just happens to teach at Yale. I've told him his next one ought to be about the pecking order within "elite" universities and how so many name droppers don't realize they're only being used by the rich bastards who really can't stand them. I think he missed the point about the ultra-rich thinking they'll fit into a community if they hang out with a local yokel country bumpkin though. Just like the idiots with a useless doctorate somehow think they're part of intelligentsia?

https://amp-ft-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.ft.com/content/7d93cc1e-8899-11ea-a109-483c62d17528?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#aoh=16026082195109&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcontent%2F7d93cc1e-8899-11ea-a109-483c62d17528

 

[CatGrad-UMGradStu]

My opinion: I agree. The tours are only a symptom of a broken culture. People have noticed this culture and made their choices. The tours reflect an attitude of entitlement, still riding the wave of when UM was in high cotton, and the worst of academia: "you're lucky we're here". UM's past the tipping point for the time being but has nothing to lose by trying to fix the impressions they give parents and potential students.

Enrollment will bottom out (I think it already has) and, IMHO, it will start to improve and, who knows, could be doing very well in a few years. That's what's best for the State, plus the UM tribe in Helena will finally feel like the world is on the right path again vs. their general un-hidden/blatant consternation that MSU is kicking butt.

Pride before the fall. Here's a quick review of a book written by a pretty nice kid who just happens to teach at Yale. I've told him his next one ought to be about the pecking order within "elite" universities and how so many name droppers don't realize they're only being used by the rich bastards who really can't stand them. I think he missed the point about the ultra-rich thinking they'll fit into a community if they hang out with a local yokel country bumpkin though. Just like the idiots with a useless doctorate somehow think they're part of intelligentsia?

https://amp-ft-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.ft.com/content/7d93cc1e-8899-11ea-a109-483c62d17528?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#aoh=16026082195109&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcontent%2F7d93cc1e-8899-11ea-a109-483c62d17528

The review above is hard to get to and I can understand if you don't want to read it.

https://buckrail-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/buckrail.com/yale-professor-authors-eye-opening-book-on-how-ultra-wealthy-are-ruining-jackson-hole/amp/?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#aoh=16026093014710&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fbuckrail.com%2Fyale-professor-authors-eye-opening-book-on-how-ultra-wealthy-are-ruining-jackson-hole%2F

 

[GrizLA]

Tours?

Has UM been added to the Montana ghost town circuit yet?

This problem has zero to do with tours.

My opinion: I agree. The tours are only a symptom of a broken culture. People have noticed this culture and made their choices. The tours reflect an attitude of entitlement, still riding the wave of when UM was in high cotton, and the worst of academia: "you're lucky we're here". UM's past the tipping point for the time being but has nothing to lose by trying to fix the impressions they give parents and potential students.

Enrollment will bottom out (I think it already has) and, IMHO, it will start to improve and, who knows, could be doing very well in a few years. That's what's best for the State, plus the UM tribe in Helena will finally feel like the world is on the right path again vs. their general un-hidden/blatant consternation that MSU is kicking butt.

The drop in Freshman enrollment is a nation wide phenomena. So places are considering it a disaster. There is talk in SC about closings. MSU must truly be exceptional to attract those brilliant students in such enormous numbers.

 

[kemajic]

Tours?

Has UM been added to the Montana ghost town circuit yet?

This problem has zero to do with tours.

On-campus visits are a component of University marketing, an area that UM has allowed itself to fall far behind in all components. If you think impressionable 17-year-olds are not influenced by marketing, you're being bloody naive.

 

[SoldierGriz]

Tours?

Has UM been added to the Montana ghost town circuit yet?

This problem has zero to do with tours.

On-campus visits are a component of University marketing, an area that UM has allowed itself to fall far behind in all components. If you think impressionable 17-year-olds are not influenced by marketing, you're being bloody naive.

Marketing matters. UM's problems are well beyond persistent crappy marketing.

They are selling the wrong things, and that can't be helped by mailers or tours.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

On-campus visits are a component of University marketing, an area that UM has allowed itself to fall far behind in all components. If you think impressionable 17-year-olds are not influenced by marketing, you're being bloody naive.

Marketing matters. UM's problems are well beyond persistent crappy marketing.

They are selling the wrong things, and that can't be helped by mailers or tours.

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