Revamped UM Student Recruitment

[SoldierGriz]

Sure, if it were true, but I sure don't think it is true.

Maybe not. I’m definitely not in the position to make that call. I can only look at results.

They continue to try to sell the same things..over, and over, and over.

The problem is they are selling the wrong things.

The school needs a transformation. They cannot continue to work the edges of this problem.

They need a hard shift to technologies of tomorrow. Computer engineering, all things cyber, artificial intelligence, and space. They need to get a friggin medical school on campus.

Those are examples of transformational changes...

I will no longer support Bodnar. He has had long enough. Disappointing.

 

[grizghost]

Maybe not. I’m definitely not in the position to make that call. I can only look at results.

They continue to try to sell the same things..over, and over, and over.

The problem is they are selling the wrong things.

The school needs a transformation. They cannot continue to work the edges of this problem.

They need a hard shift to technologies of tomorrow. Computer engineering, all things cyber, artificial intelligence, and space. They need to get a friggin medical school on campus.

Those are examples of transformational changes...

I will no longer support Bodnar. He has had long enough. Disappointing.

so in other words..getting a education that gets you a career job! ....sounds appealing to me!

 

[Griz til I die]

I know of many examples to the contrary. We have kids of friends and relatives stay with us frequently when looking at UM, and they all report very good tours and experiences at UM. A couple of my kids' friends did tours for years, we went on a few of them with kids staying with us, and they were terrrific. I'm sure Kem's relative had a weak experience, but I just don't believe, and never did, that UM's recruiting experiences are bad and MSU's are good.

So PR let me ask you this. What is a campus tour supposed to look like?

Also could you tell us if UM’s enrollment was projected to go up pre-COVID? And if so, how much?

 

[Spanky2]

I don’t understand why the problems regarding recruitment continue. However, there isn’t anyone more credible than Kem to give an account of the experience with his granddaughter.

 

[SoldierGriz]

They continue to try to sell the same things..over, and over, and over.

The problem is they are selling the wrong things.

The school needs a transformation. They cannot continue to work the edges of this problem.

They need a hard shift to technologies of tomorrow. Computer engineering, all things cyber, artificial intelligence, and space. They need to get a friggin medical school on campus.

Those are examples of transformational changes...

I will no longer support Bodnar. He has had long enough. Disappointing.

so in other words..getting a education that gets you a career job! ....sounds appealing to me!

A quick google search: Texas A&M, Purdue, Georgia Tech ----all setting enrollment records....even with COVID. Liberal Arts Schools, particularly those that don't have a deep and well understood STEM offerings, are in a deep slump nation-wide.

UM's STEM offerings are simply not understandable - no matter how hard they try.

I also recently talked to a US Forest Service leader who was working the fires in California. He told me UM's Forestry Program is simply not that good. I don't know if that is true or not, but I certainly didn't like his perception.

 

[CatGrad-UMGradStu]

so in other words..getting a education that gets you a career job! ....sounds appealing to me!

A quick google search: Texas A&M, Purdue, Georgia Tech ----all setting enrollment records....even with COVID. Liberal Arts Schools, particularly those that don't have a deep and well understood STEM offerings, are in a deep slump nation-wide.

UM's STEM offerings are simply not understandable - no matter how hard they try.

I also recently talked to a US Forest Service leader who was working the fires in California. He told me UM's Forestry Program is simply not that good. I don't know if that is true or not, but I certainly didn't like his perception.

Remember this creature and what it did to logging in the Pacific Northwest? The kids aren't stupid. They know U of M hired that one individual responsible for tranforming the forest management practices into a fire fighting industry...

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/146038/spotting-the-spotted-owl-30-years-of-forest-disturbance

 

[argh!]

Maybe not. I’m definitely not in the position to make that call. I can only look at results.

They continue to try to sell the same things..over, and over, and over.

The problem is they are selling the wrong things.

The school needs a transformation. They cannot continue to work the edges of this problem.

They need a hard shift to technologies of tomorrow. Computer engineering, all things cyber, artificial intelligence, and space. They need to get a friggin medical school on campus.

Those are examples of transformational changes...

I will no longer support Bodnar. He has had long enough. Disappointing.

well said, except you forgot "get rid of tenure for dead weight faculty". connecting high school students with ambitious, talented, and enthusiastic professors, especially relatively young professors, would help a lot with recruiting. hard to do if so many of the professor slots are taken by people who have tenure but aren't being productive either in research or teaching, but instead are just cruising until retirement, collecting paychecks. having spent most of my life in academia, i'd say that accounts for at least half of all the professors with tenure that i've encountered, probably more. the freedom to teach and do research as one feels is appropriate for one's area of expertise can be protected without the outdated and counter-productive nonsense of tenure.

addendum - i'm writing that as someone who earned tenure at two different universities, before i became disgruntled (and disgusted) with academia, and decided to change careers. if i wanted i could be doing little to nothing and still be drawing a relatively large paycheck, but... nah.

 

[mtgriz]

Last year I sent an email to the recruitment office giving them the name of a senior (Jenny, not her real name) that wanted to be recruited by UM but she hadn’t received anything. This despite receiving multiple mailings from other colleges.

For the past year, UM has been sending recruiting emails to me, addressing me as Jenny. I tried once to correct them on the mistake, and then gave up.

 

[CatGrad-UMGradStu]

They continue to try to sell the same things..over, and over, and over.

The problem is they are selling the wrong things.

The school needs a transformation. They cannot continue to work the edges of this problem.

They need a hard shift to technologies of tomorrow. Computer engineering, all things cyber, artificial intelligence, and space. They need to get a friggin medical school on campus.

Those are examples of transformational changes...

I will no longer support Bodnar. He has had long enough. Disappointing.

well said, except you forgot "get rid of tenure for dead weight faculty". connecting high school students with ambitious, talented, and enthusiastic professors, especially relatively young professors, would help a lot with recruiting. hard to do if so many of the professor slots are taken by people who have tenure but aren't being productive either in research or teaching, but instead are just cruising until retirement, collecting paychecks. having spent most of my life in academia, i'd say that accounts for at least half of all the professors with tenure that i've encountered, probably more. the freedom to teach and do research as one feels is appropriate for one's area of expertise can be protected without the outdated and counter-productive nonsense of tenure.

addendum - i'm writing that as someone who earned tenure at two different universities, before i became disgruntled (and disgusted) with academia, and decided to change careers. if i wanted i could be doing little to nothing and still be drawing a relatively large paycheck, but... nah.

argh!, I for one really appreciate all of your words of wisdom here. Retaking many courses I completed in a masters and specialist program in order to hang a meaningless Ed.D. behind my name pushed me personally to go elsewhere to complete said program. There's a few buildings on both of Montana's flagship universities that have my relatives names on them and personally I'm embarrassed by the unionized faculty in one school in particular hanging on to certain faculty members doing exactly as you just wrote. High school kids in this state laugh at some of the "stuff" being published by this faculty now. I'm certain you're fully aware the most important papers to come out of this school in the last twenty or thirty years involve digging through Lewis and Clark's shitter? And how in the hell could they differentiate whether is was an officer or enlisted's fecal matter? We discussed when the country went into shelter-in-place mode the need to immediately expand the online program offerings and then watched this school piss away an opportunity to grow the programs and lose an individual back to Purdue. Damn!

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Last year I sent an email to the recruitment office giving them the name of a senior (Jenny, not her real name) that wanted to be recruited by UM but she hadn’t received anything. This despite receiving multiple mailings from other colleges.

For the past year, UM has been sending recruiting emails to me, addressing me as Jenny. I tried once to correct them on the mistake, and then gave up.

I wonder what they actually do, like on a random Tuesday. I don’t know, and I don’t mean to cast aspersions, but it definitely sounds like a job in which one could coast pretty easily. Maybe that’s what’s going on?

As for the lack of forward thinking a few others mentioned, I completely agree. Even when I was there, the culture of “this is how we’ve always done it” was pervasive. Just to tie it back to football, remember all the years people said night games would never work because barkeeps wouldn’t like it, and everyone just accepted/repeated that ridiculous response for over a decade without an ounce of critical thought?

That’s how I feel about people saying our [insert program] is “really good”. If nobody wants to enroll it it, who cares how good it is? Any one of us could start the greatest telegraph operator program in the country tomorrow and make zero dollars.

 

[noncasualobserver]

Long time lurker, second time poster, MSU alum for full disclosure.

Aside from the predictable contradiction from PR, U of M obviously has a serious recruiting problem (among potentially others pointed out: unionized faculty "doing time" and not adjusting to reality, tenure, degrees with questionable value, etc.). It's well known among parents of college age kids in MT who are pissed if they're UM alum, sadly giddy if MSU alum.

The no-longer-new U of M President should have fixed that issue asap if only for the children of alumni. U of M obviously has passionate alumni. Several are good friends of mine from high school who can't stand that their kids chose MSU over U of M, these kids for the most part couldn't care less where their parents went, and don't want to attend a school with a perception that it's failing. For kids about to graduate from high school, perception is reality. My guess with respect to recruitment and welcoming students is that Bodnar's hands are tied by classified/union staff that have no incentive to change the culture and perception. That's a total guess with zero data to back it up, but what else could it be? Bodnar's qualifications seem solid, but he's been at U of M for long enough and his performance should at least be questioned. If his performance matches other liberal arts universities, my opinion is he gets a pass, pat on the back and maybe a free U of M cardigan for holding it together while adjustments are made: honestly not an easy task. If not, Regents should start performance-based measures if he wants to stay. Another leadership change will obviously look awful and create even more enrollment decline though - and frankly might not have any positive impact on enrollment in the long run.

Directly related: I always look forward to the highly prepared press releases from U of M's PR group after enrollment comes out, then Lee Newspapers licking it up with "flagship" mentioned as many times as possible. MSU's aren't quite as bad, but that's most likely my bias. Keep wondering what good news shtick will be in the next press release. We should start a new thread with material for UM PR (Public Relations, not Player Rep). I'll start, you're welcome "U of M is excited about the dramatic increase in freshmen enrollment of students of Slavic descent. Our Slavic descended student population has increased 32% since 1983! President Bodnar received a plaque from the North West US Slavic Descendant's Baking and Costume Club recognizing this achievement! All 12 UM students who pay attention to their Slavic descent are thinking of having a quarterly meeting...."

 

[Spanky2]

Bodnar is a highly qualified executive and seems unable to correct the recruiting issues. How much longer can this continue before the survival of UM is in jeopardy? Is it actually possible to stop the bleeding? Can UM compete with MSU? Should UM be merged with MSU?

 

[SoldierGriz]

Bodnar is a highly qualified executive and seems unable to correct the recruiting issues. How much longer can this continue before the survival of UM is in jeopardy? Is it actually possible to stop the bleeding? Can UM compete with MSU? Should UM be merged with MSU?

The truth is...Bodnar needed to blow it up. He didn't do it. It will now continue to move along some strategic plan with crisp PowerPoint-deep milestones and objectives and goals.

His time to bring transformational change is over. He is now part of the problem...deeply connected to his failed strategy that was built with his ill placed empathy to the faculty and other bureaucrats whose only objective was to maintain the status quo. They have won.

 

[kemajic]

the faculty and other bureaucrats whose only objective was to maintain the status quo

AKA "the swamp"

 

[PlayerRep]

I think it's funny when people have no information and no clue, but still draw conclusions, make pronouncements, and act like they know something.

 

[Griz til I die]

I think it's funny when people have no information and no clue, but still draw conclusions, make pronouncements, and act like they know something.

Hey I asked an honest question that I was hoping to get an answer from you on. I know you’re not referring to me though.

 

[CatGrad-UMGradStu]

I think it's funny when people have no information and no clue, but still draw conclusions, make pronouncements, and act like they know something.

The issue, and you should know, are the simple facts and data. Unfortunately, those who supposedly know don't know anything and a once proud school continues its downward spiral. Pride is troubling, from the outside looking in...and the status quo continues.

 

[noncasualobserver]

I think it's funny when people have no information and no clue, but still draw conclusions, make pronouncements, and act like they know something.

The issue, and you should know, are the simple facts and data. Unfortunately, those who supposedly know don't know anything and a once proud school continues its downward spiral. Pride is troubling, from the outside looking in...and the status quo continues.

As predictable as the sun rising, PR make his declarations as the facts illustrate otherwise. Some of my information and my clue: multiple life long UM alumni friends who know far more than you about the state of affairs at UM, including multiple Griz football players from the Golden Era: two college age kids one attended MSU, the other UM: like you, friends (currently a close friend, they change) who are Regents, UM alumni and sorely disappointment at the state of affairs and voice it regularly: have worked across MUS (not MSU/UM, MUS) for well over 20 years: Even if I didn't have any of that information and clue - it's bad and getting worse and UM and Montana deserve better.

One of the biggest problems with UM is the aged good old boy network of alumni, not the "normal" alumni, tottering around golf courses, dinner clubs, glassy smooth Green ski runs and social events. The problem is that they really do represent UM kind of accurately, and that's not a good thing. Clearly Bodnar needed/needs to rebrand the whole institution and carefully jettison these hangers-on.

This will be my last reply to PR drivel - I will respond no more forever.

 

[PlayerRep]

I think it's funny when people have no information and no clue, but still draw conclusions, make pronouncements, and act like they know something.

Hey I asked an honest question that I was hoping to get an answer from you on. I know you’re not referring to me though.

I didn’t see your question. In Moab in the new rv.

 

[PlayerRep]

The issue, and you should know, are the simple facts and data. Unfortunately, those who supposedly know don't know anything and a once proud school continues its downward spiral. Pride is troubling, from the outside looking in...and the status quo continues.

As predictable as the sun rising, PR make his declarations as the facts illustrate otherwise. Some of my information and my clue: multiple life long UM alumni friends who know far more than you about the state of affairs at UM, including multiple Griz football players from the Golden Era: two college age kids one attended MSU, the other UM: like you, friends (currently a close friend, they change) who are Regents, UM alumni and sorely disappointment at the state of affairs and voice it regularly: have worked across MUS (not MSU/UM, MUS) for well over 20 years: Even if I didn't have any of that information and clue - it's bad and getting worse and UM and Montana deserve better.

One of the biggest problems with UM is the aged good old boy network of alumni, not the "normal" alumni, tottering around golf courses, dinner clubs, glassy smooth Green ski runs and social events. The problem is that they really do represent UM kind of accurately, and that's not a good thing. Clearly Bodnar needed/needs to rebrand the whole institution and carefully jettison these hangers-on.

This will be my last reply to PR drivel - I will respond no more forever.

My drivel is based on talking to the former admissions-recruiting person multiple times, Bodnar, several members of board of regents, etc. where did you get your info?

I have an MSU grad, a UM grad, and kid who just graduated from college.

I know a big UM grad and donor who agrees on the rebranding. Maybe reinventing.he talks to Bodnar frequently.