Returning UM football to dominance

[kemajic]

This is the main problem and I have been harping on it for years. We can use athletic profit to help pay for a new science building but we have to hope for a major donor to come in and fund the new locker rooms. It is bull***t. Our student athletic facilities are the worst in the BSC when with our athletic revenue if we put any of it back into the program we should be the best in the FCS.

It's well known Main Hall has a whole smorgasbord of techniques to syphon money away from the football program. It would be interesting to see a benchmark study to see whether UM is unique among similar universities; I suspect it is a leader in this. Dennison was expert at this, crafty accounting; just ask Hogan. Tough to benchmark; they protect their secrets. They find they can get larger donations into the football program than the Foundation, so they play the internal shift trick to beef up the general fund. It can be argued whether that is good or bad, but it cannot be argued that it is not deceitful.

 

[CV Griz Fan]

I believe UM is on the front end of a major resurgence. Just next year campus will see the addition of the Student-Athlete Academic Center. Construction is set to begin and the facility will be open next year. This is a major step in the right direction. Fundraising for the the new weight room/locker room facility is nearly complete with $11 million of the $14 million project in-hand and only $3 million to go. This project will be completed in the next few years, just about the same time that our probation period and loss of scholarships end. We will also have a new head coach and coaching staff in place before then. Big changes like these don't happen overnight and have already taken too long to get to this stage. But we're here now. The changes are occurring. Washington Grizzly Stadium, in combination with the new academic center and new weight room/locker room, along with the return to full scholarship status, will not only put UM on an even keel with our competitors in the Big Sky, it will put us on a pedestal with the rest of the conference struggling to keep up. UM will have excellent support facilities, the best stadium, and the best fan base in all of the FCS. It's right around the corner people. It's right around the corner.

Yes. But will the FCS as we know it be around that corner? There is a lot of uncertainty out there in NCAA football.

 

[CV Griz Fan]

I believe UM is on the front end of a major resurgence. Just next year campus will see the addition of the Student-Athlete Academic Center. Construction is set to begin and the facility will be open next year. This is a major step in the right direction. Fundraising for the the new weight room/locker room facility is nearly complete with $11 million of the $14 million project in-hand and only $3 million to go. This project will be completed in the next few years, just about the same time that our probation period and loss of scholarships end. We will also have a new head coach and coaching staff in place before then. Big changes like these don't happen overnight and have already taken too long to get to this stage. But we're here now. The changes are occurring. Washington Grizzly Stadium, in combination with the new academic center and new weight room/locker room, along with the return to full scholarship status, will not only put UM on an even keel with our competitors in the Big Sky, it will put us on a pedestal with the rest of the conference struggling to keep up. UM will have excellent support facilities, the best stadium, and the best fan base in all of the FCS. It's right around the corner people. It's right around the corner.

Yes. But will the FCS as we know it be around that corner? There is a lot of uncertainty out there in NCAA football.

 

[NLGrizFan]

Some stability would be greaaat... I'm gonna go along with the idea of supporting him once again this season because I'm not gonna bitch about a 10-3 record. All you guys are spoiled rotten and it's contagious. Yes, I want UM to be the best and win Conference and National Championships but I'm not gonna hang a guy because he lost 3 games in 13 games. Not to mention a seeded Playoff team. The defense needs work but I've got high hopes for them and I'm not about to start throwing the team, the program, the coaches, and players under the bus because last season beats the shit outta what I seen in 2012. And that season I still drove 700 miles round trip to support the team. So go ahead and cry me a river because they lost a playoff game or whatever it is that you're gonna whine about. But put yourself in some of the other teams fan's shoes. They would kill for the talent the Montana possesses. My only true complaint about what has happened at UM recently is the lack of recruiting for the O line.

 

[PlayerRep]

Some stability would be greaaat... I'm gonna go along with the idea of supporting him once again this season because I'm not gonna bitch about a 10-3 record. All you guys are spoiled rotten and it's contagious. Yes, I want UM to be the best and win Conference and National Championships but I'm not gonna hang a guy because he lost 3 games in 13 games. Not to mention a seeded Playoff team. The defense needs work but I've got high hopes for them and I'm not about to start throwing the team, the program, the coaches, and players under the bus because last season beats the shit outta what I seen in 2012. And that season I still drove 700 miles round trip to support the team. So go ahead and cry me a river because they lost a playoff game or whatever it is that you're gonna whine about. But put yourself in some of the other teams fan's shoes. They would kill for the talent the Montana possesses. My only true complaint about what has happened at UM recently is the lack of recruiting for the O line.

I like your post and agree with it, but why do you believe there's been a lack of recruiting for the O line? UM just had all 3 senior O lineman signed as free agents. Kistler made some all-american teams. There are multiple good younger lineman on the depth chart. Aren't there about 5 promising redshirt juniors to be? It remains to be seen who and how many will step up and how good they will be individually and as a group, but it's not like there's no depth.

 

[Sam A. Blitz]

There haven't been a lot of OL recruits the last two classes. We've had a strong history of having great OLs. Our next recruiting class needs to be heavier on linemen or we may have some depth issues in the next couple years.

 

[PlayerRep]

There haven't been a lot of OL recruits the last two classes. We've had a strong history of having great OLs. Our next recruiting class needs to be heavier on linemen or we may have some depth issues in the next couple years.

Agreed on both counts. After getting about 5 o lineman in '12, there haven't been many. The schollie guy in this last class is thought to be good and advanced enough to contribute this year, if needed. Don't know the status of the '13 greyshirt. We should be fine for this year, and probably next year (depending how the younger kids come along).

 

[AZGrizFan]

Reading these posts on the financial condition of the university/athletic program and the university siphoning money off to fund pet projects while at the same time killing the golden goose reminds me frighteningly of what's going on (on a much larger scale) in America right now. Siphoning money off for pet projects while the basic (and necessary) foundation and infrastructure crumble around us. That methodology won't work forever at the University of Montana and it won't work forever in the United States of America. The pile of money is not infinite.

 

[statler & waldorf]

This is the main problem and I have been harping on it for years. We can use athletic profit to help pay for a new science building but we have to hope for a major donor to come in and fund the new locker rooms. It is bull***t. Our student athletic facilities are the worst in the BSC when with our athletic revenue if we put any of it back into the program we should be the best in the FCS.

It's well known Main Hall has a whole smorgasbord of techniques to syphon money away from the football program. It would be interesting to see a benchmark study to see whether UM is unique among similar universities; I suspect it is a leader in this. Dennison was expert at this, crafty accounting; just ask Hogan. Tough to benchmark; they protect their secrets. They find they can get larger donations into the football program than the Foundation, so they play the internal shift trick to beef up the general fund. It can be argued whether that is good or bad, but it cannot be argued that it is not deceitful.

Good post. Perhaps what is being done is illegal, and an investigation is needed to put an end to this sh*t. Seeing the football program bled to death to support everything else on the campus, and then have to go begging for funding really pisses me off. Kem, you seem to have some connections, and definitely have the knowledge, so how about getting the ball rolling on this.

 

[EverettGriz]

One quick question:

How, exactly, is money being siphoned from athletics when the department still receives a significant portion of its revenue from Institutional Support?

 

[PlayerRep]

One quick question:

How, exactly, is money being siphoned from athletics when the department still receives a significant portion of its revenue from Institutional Support?

I understand your question/point, and have often thought the same thing, but its does seem odd that UM would give with one hand and take with the other hand. It's also misleading. I assume that institutional support for UM athletics looks overstated, because I assume the revenue taken away, i.e. siphoned off, shows up as some sort of expense (and doesn't just reduce the institutional support line item). However, maybe that is not the case. Kem seems to think there are some sort of accounting gimmicks, but I've never seen him or anyone actually explain what the gimmick is or may be.

I recently saw that Haslam said that football is about breakeven, and saw O'Day say that in the past. Just eyeballing the numbers, that doesn't seem to be right. It would seem that football brings in more than its expenses. I wonder if a disproportionate amount of the expenses of the athletic dept, like admin costs, get loaded onto the football program

 

[EverettGriz]

I recently saw that Haslam said that football is about breakeven, and saw O'Day say that in the past. Just eyeballing the numbers, that doesn't seem to be right. It would seem that football brings in more than its expenses. I wonder if a disproportionate amount of the expenses of the athletic dept, like admin costs, get loaded onto the football program

Oh, I agree. If it were a stand-alone entity, I think football would be revenue positive. But to your point, there are a number of fixed costs associated with the athletic department (office space, phone, marketing, etc) which are shared across all sports and which football would have to pay solely if it were a stand alone operation.

But yes, I expect that football does carry the a large amount of the freight. But that's true at nearly every program in the country.

 

[tnt]

One quick question:

How, exactly, is money being siphoned from athletics when the department still receives a significant portion of its revenue from Institutional Support?

I understand your question/point, and have often thought the same thing, but its does seem odd that UM would give with one hand and take with the other hand. It's also misleading. I assume that institutional support for UM athletics looks overstated, because I assume the revenue taken away, i.e. siphoned off, shows up as some sort of expense (and doesn't just reduce the institutional support line item). However, maybe that is not the case. Kem seems to think there are some sort of accounting gimmicks, but I've never seen him or anyone actually explain what the gimmick is or may be.

I recently saw that Haslam said that football is about breakeven, and saw O'Day say that in the past. Just eyeballing the numbers, that doesn't seem to be right. It would seem that football brings in more than its expenses. I wonder if a disproportionate amount of the expenses of the athletic dept, like admin costs, get loaded onto the football program

Frankly look at the number of fixed expenses as far as that loading goes. Nearly 25% of student athletes are football players. Spread that across the athletic department, then look at facilities dedicated/used by the team but the multi-million dollar stadium used six times a year (but maintained none the less) and rarley by outside groups I would be hard pressed to say disproportionate amount of the expenses of the athletic dept, like admin costs, get loaded onto the football program. Slick accounting tricks are pretty rare when it comes down to it.

 

[PlayerRep]

One quick question:

How, exactly, is money being siphoned from athletics when the department still receives a significant portion of its revenue from Institutional Support?

I understand your question/point, and have often thought the same thing, but its does seem odd that UM would give with one hand and take with the other hand. It's also misleading. I assume that institutional support for UM athletics looks overstated, because I assume the revenue taken away, i.e. siphoned off, shows up as some sort of expense (and doesn't just reduce the institutional support line item). However, maybe that is not the case. Kem seems to think there are some sort of accounting gimmicks, but I've never seen him or anyone actually explain what the gimmick is or may be.

I recently saw that Haslam said that football is about breakeven, and saw O'Day say that in the past. Just eyeballing the numbers, that doesn't seem to be right. It would seem that football brings in more than its expenses. I wonder if a disproportionate amount of the expenses of the athletic dept, like admin costs, get loaded onto the football program

Frankly look at the number of fixed expenses as far as that loading goes. Nearly 25% of student athletes are football players. Spread that across the athletic department, then look at facilities dedicated/used by the team but the multi-million dollar stadium used six times a year (but maintained none the less) and rarley by outside groups I would be hard pressed to say disproportionate amount of the expenses of the athletic dept, like admin costs, get loaded onto the football program. Slick accounting tricks are pretty rare when it comes down to it.

The football stadium is used for concerts, the local professional (or whatever it is) football team, the lacrosse team, the band, Little Griz football, etc. The Canyon Club is used for various non-football events. The suites were used as temporary offices for non-football UM people for a year.

 

[EverettGriz]

All of that is true, PR.

But it's still a complete red herring to say that the University is bleeding either the athletic department or the football program. The University gives money to athletics, not takes it.

 

[tnt]

One quick question:

How, exactly, is money being siphoned from athletics when the department still receives a significant portion of its revenue from Institutional Support?

I understand your question/point, and have often thought the same thing, but its does seem odd that UM would give with one hand and take with the other hand. It's also misleading. I assume that institutional support for UM athletics looks overstated, because I assume the revenue taken away, i.e. siphoned off, shows up as some sort of expense (and doesn't just reduce the institutional support line item). However, maybe that is not the case. Kem seems to think there are some sort of accounting gimmicks, but I've never seen him or anyone actually explain what the gimmick is or may be.

I recently saw that Haslam said that football is about breakeven, and saw O'Day say that in the past. Just eyeballing the numbers, that doesn't seem to be right. It would seem that football brings in more than its expenses. I wonder if a disproportionate amount of the expenses of the athletic dept, like admin costs, get loaded onto the football program

Frankly look at the number of fixed expenses as far as that loading goes. Nearly 25% of student athletes are football players. Spread that across the athletic department, then look at facilities dedicated/used by the team but the multi-million dollar stadium used six times a year (but maintained none the less) and rarley by outside groups I would be hard pressed to say disproportionate amount of the expenses of the athletic dept, like admin costs, get loaded onto the football program. Slick accounting tricks are pretty rare when it comes down to it.

The football stadium is used for concerts, the local professional (or whatever it is) football team, the lacrosse team, the band, Little Griz football, etc. The Canyon Club is used for various non-football events. The suites were used as temporary offices for non-football UM people for a year.

The first time in history I agree with you on anything outright and you get oppositional. There is medication for that...............

 

[PlayerRep]

I understand your question/point, and have often thought the same thing, but its does seem odd that UM would give with one hand and take with the other hand. It's also misleading. I assume that institutional support for UM athletics looks overstated, because I assume the revenue taken away, i.e. siphoned off, shows up as some sort of expense (and doesn't just reduce the institutional support line item). However, maybe that is not the case. Kem seems to think there are some sort of accounting gimmicks, but I've never seen him or anyone actually explain what the gimmick is or may be.

I recently saw that Haslam said that football is about breakeven, and saw O'Day say that in the past. Just eyeballing the numbers, that doesn't seem to be right. It would seem that football brings in more than its expenses. I wonder if a disproportionate amount of the expenses of the athletic dept, like admin costs, get loaded onto the football program

Frankly look at the number of fixed expenses as far as that loading goes. Nearly 25% of student athletes are football players. Spread that across the athletic department, then look at facilities dedicated/used by the team but the multi-million dollar stadium used six times a year (but maintained none the less) and rarley by outside groups I would be hard pressed to say disproportionate amount of the expenses of the athletic dept, like admin costs, get loaded onto the football program. Slick accounting tricks are pretty rare when it comes down to it.

The football stadium is used for concerts, the local professional (or whatever it is) football team, the lacrosse team, the band, Little Griz football, etc. The Canyon Club is used for various non-football events. The suites were used as temporary offices for non-football UM people for a year.

The first time in history I agree with you on anything outright and you get oppositional. There is medication for that...............

Providing additional and factual information is "oppositional"?

 

[tnt]

Frankly look at the number of fixed expenses as far as that loading goes. Nearly 25% of student athletes are football players. Spread that across the athletic department, then look at facilities dedicated/used by the team but the multi-million dollar stadium used six times a year (but maintained none the less) and rarley by outside groups I would be hard pressed to say disproportionate amount of the expenses of the athletic dept, like admin costs, get loaded onto the football program. Slick accounting tricks are pretty rare when it comes down to it.

The football stadium is used for concerts, the local professional (or whatever it is) football team, the lacrosse team, the band, Little Griz football, etc. The Canyon Club is used for various non-football events. The suites were used as temporary offices for non-football UM people for a year.

The first time in history I agree with you on anything outright and you get oppositional. There is medication for that...............

Providing additional and factual information is "oppositional"?

Yup. You know exactly what you were saying, why and how. You also (you already know this) were attempting to make a point you have no idea is right or wrong but would make it appear the Football Stadium was carrying its own weight and providing a net profit above its expenses. If it is, you were right all along, if it turns out its not, you never said it was.

 

[Umista]

Some of you are rambling on as to which one is the King of Griz BS. In any case the stadium is one of the greatest in our league and in fact the entire nation! Our team is rated in the top ten again. We get about 25,000 people at every game. We drink like true drunks at the tailgate parties. We have a fine band. We have good old Monte'. We have a "bad" president but we have good fans anyway.

We have an over the hill coach that does the best he can, good guy for sure. Our offense is old fashioned with out a doubt. Our defense was loose as goose poo last year. Our special teams were bad to worse. Yet we slid by an got 10 wins.

Far from dominance but as many of us know we will be back this season with a tougher team than we had last season. Still can't make a field goal, still can't get two feet on third down, still do not have a short passing game, still can't "clock manage"...... but we will be a decent team again.

Bottom line is until Haslam-Engstrom allow us to get a new coaching staff we will be kinda soft in the middle and hesitant on fourth downs blah blah blah.....BS goes on forever!

 

[mondayamqb]

For those with the time, talent, inclination; it would be interesting to do some comparisons. Start with UM-MSU then expand to BSC. Look at total athletic budgets for the last ten years. How much is "state" money, how much ticket revenue, booster funds, student fees, radio/TV, etc. I've heard we're currently about 30% state-70% other. More difficult would be looking at expenses. Here's where the administration can be more of a friend or foe. The athletic department is charged occupancy fees. They include utilities, janitorial, security, etc. Plus all printing (posters, GSA materials, etc.) and food must be purchased from UM. The charges are determined by the various departments and suppliers. Many Universities give coaches free dorm rooms and special deals on food for summer camps. With a fifteen million dollar budget, there are hundreds of thousands of dollars in "discretionary" charges that Universities can arbitrarily apply depending how they want their athletic accounting to look.