Proof is in the Pudding

[Sport]

Sticks and stones will break my bones but words ……….

 

[HookedonGriz]

I watched the broadcast of the new recruits/transfers signings and came away less than impressed. Maybe it had to do with the fact that we already knew who was signed whereas in previous years it was new news. I guess the proof will be in the pudding as the saying goes. No doubt the cats are out recruiting us in the state but I don’t see any real blur blood recruits in this class. I hope I’m wrong.

Yea getting 8 different 3 star kids is just so ho hum…..out of 19 kids. Come on!

 

[alabamagrizzly]

Sticks and stones will break my bones but words ……….

I’m with you sport. These kids ain’t done s h i t yet to impress me. I mean, they ain’t even got their uniforms on yet. What a bunch of slackers. Get with the fu-king program already!

 

[Sport]

Recruiting is not an exact science now and probably never will be. Even at the pro level with all the analytic resources at their disposal they come up on the short end of the stick. Case in point would be Johnny Mansel or even Montana’s own Ryan Leaf. Both were drafted in 1st round, guaranteed a boat load of money and both failed miserably.
So many factors go into evaluating potential in athletes. Just because they have a 3 or 4 star rating by a recruiting service doesn’t mean they will the cure all for the program. And the opposite is also true for the star program. Colt Andersen and Patrick O’Connell both were walk-ons. They didn’t turn out so badly.
I hope all of our recruits prove to be All conference but reality tells me let them prove themselves of the football field and not in their highlights film before I’m impressed with this years class.

 

[alabamagrizzly]

Recruiting is not an exact science now and probably never will be. Even at the pro level with all the analytic resources at their disposal they come up on the short end of the stick. Case in point would be Johnny Mansel or even Montana’s own Ryan Leaf. Both were drafted in 1st round, guaranteed a boat load of money and both failed miserably.
So many factors go into evaluating potential in athletes. Just because they have a 3 or 4 star rating by a recruiting service doesn’t mean they will the cure all for the program. And the opposite is also true for the star program. Colt Andersen and Patrick O’Connell both were walk-ons. They didn’t turn out so badly.
I hope all of our recruits prove to be All conference but reality tells me let them prove themselves of the football field and not in their highlights film before I’m impressed with this years class.

This is the way it’s been since the beginning. You’re not pointing out anything new. Every kid has potential to get excited about and some fail and some rise above. Always has been and always will be. Your OP though definitely comes off as a Negative Nancy. It seems you started the thread to take a big s h i t on our recruiting class. Also, please explain your rationale how the scats are no doubt out recruiting us in state. From VIM’s analysis, who as far as anyone on eGriz is concerned is the expert, the two “Rare Ones” in the state both went FBS. We each got two of the “Blue Chips” and of the “Partials/Safe Investments” we got six to their nine. Is your analysis based of numbers alone and not need or talent level?

 

[GoldStandardGriz]

Cooked banana pudding (fudge that instant stuff!) with vanilla wafers......mmmmm. Brings back memories of Grandma.

That being said, I really like this class, I believe we have key contributors at nearly every position for years to come. I am less than impressed with the op.

Granny has Southern roots?

:thumb:

 

[MTOutsider]

So did anyone bring pudding? Even just a snack-pack?

I thought Snacks retired.

 

[GrizMania]

So did anyone bring pudding? Even just a snack-pack?

I thought Snacks retired.

 

[horribilisfan8184]

Recruiting is not an exact science now and probably never will be. Even at the pro level with all the analytic resources at their disposal they come up on the short end of the stick. Case in point would be Johnny Mansel or even Montana’s own Ryan Leaf. Both were drafted in 1st round, guaranteed a boat load of money and both failed miserably.
So many factors go into evaluating potential in athletes. Just because they have a 3 or 4 star rating by a recruiting service doesn’t mean they will the cure all for the program. And the opposite is also true for the star program. Colt Andersen and Patrick O’Connell both were walk-ons. They didn’t turn out so badly.
I hope all of our recruits prove to be All conference but reality tells me let them prove themselves of the football field and not in their highlights film before I’m impressed with this years class.

We get a lot of chatter here on how the UM coaching staff doesn't "coach them up", which I take with a grain of salt. But if you don't think there are glaring coaching discrepancies and abilities in HS football you are sorely mistaken. Many of those "walkons" without stars in their bio, that turn out to be gamers for the Griz, are in this category. They turn out that way because of UM "coaching them up". But the naysayers here focus only on the ones who don't seem to develop, and ignore the ones who do.

 

[Dillon]

This also brings up the concept; If you don't eat yer meat, you can't have any pudding. How can you have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat?

Pinkish Meat @ that!

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

Why recruiting rankings mean less than pudding...

Sam Herder @SamHerderFCS
1h
2019 #FCS Recruiting Class Rankings via the 247Sports Composite vs. 2022 records

1. Portland State
(2022 record: 4-7)

2. Harvard
(6-4)

3. Princeton
(8-2)

4. SFA
(6-5)

5. Yale
(8-2)

6. Central Arkansas
(5-6)

7. Idaho
(7-5)

8. EWU
(3-8)

9. Mercer
(7-4)

10. EKU
(7-5)

 

[alabamagrizzly]

Why recruiting rankings mean less than pudding...

Sam Herder @SamHerderFCS
1h
2019 #FCS Recruiting Class Rankings via the 247Sports Composite vs. 2022 records

1. Portland State
(2022 record: 4-7)

2. Harvard
(6-4)

3. Princeton
(8-2)

4. SFA
(6-5)

5. Yale
(8-2)

6. Central Arkansas
(5-6)

7. Idaho
(7-5)

8. EWU
(3-8)

9. Mercer
(7-4)

10. EKU
(7-5)

Just for arguments sake I wonder how many of the kids that pushed these rankings up ended up optioning for the portal before the ‘22 season.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Recruiting is not an exact science now and probably never will be. Even at the pro level with all the analytic resources at their disposal they come up on the short end of the stick. Case in point would be Johnny Mansel or even Montana’s own Ryan Leaf. Both were drafted in 1st round, guaranteed a boat load of money and both failed miserably.
So many factors go into evaluating potential in athletes. Just because they have a 3 or 4 star rating by a recruiting service doesn’t mean they will the cure all for the program. And the opposite is also true for the star program. Colt Andersen and Patrick O’Connell both were walk-ons. They didn’t turn out so badly.
I hope all of our recruits prove to be All conference but reality tells me let them prove themselves of the football field and not in their highlights film before I’m impressed with this years class.

We get a lot of chatter here on how the UM coaching staff doesn't "coach them up", which I take with a grain of salt. But if you don't think there are glaring coaching discrepancies and abilities in HS football you are sorely mistaken. Many of those "walkons" without stars in their bio, that turn out to be gamers for the Griz, are in this category. They turn out that way because of UM "coaching them up". But the naysayers here focus only on the ones who don't seem to develop, and ignore the ones who do.

I would assume you’d put me in the “naysayers” category…I would disagree with your statement slightly. it’s not that they can’t coach “them” up. It’s that they can’t, specifically, coach QUARTERBACKS up. There hasn’t been one yet under this regime, while at virtually every other position they’ve been moderately to very successful coaching players up.

 

[kemajic]

I would assume you’d put me in the “naysayers” category…I would disagree with your statement slightly. it’s not that they can’t coach “them” up. It’s that they can’t, specifically, coach QUARTERBACKS up. There hasn’t been one yet under this regime, while at virtually every other position they’ve been moderately to very successful coaching players up.

Sneed.

 

[alabamagrizzly]

We get a lot of chatter here on how the UM coaching staff doesn't "coach them up", which I take with a grain of salt. But if you don't think there are glaring coaching discrepancies and abilities in HS football you are sorely mistaken. Many of those "walkons" without stars in their bio, that turn out to be gamers for the Griz, are in this category. They turn out that way because of UM "coaching them up". But the naysayers here focus only on the ones who don't seem to develop, and ignore the ones who do.

I would assume you’d put me in the “naysayers” category…I would disagree with your statement slightly. it’s not that they can’t coach “them” up. It’s that they can’t, specifically, coach QUARTERBACKS up. There hasn’t been one yet under this regime, while at virtually every other position they’ve been moderately to very successful coaching players up.

I would counter that with a coach can only “coach up” as much as a players ability can allow. You can teach technique and knowledge but you can’t teach the tangibles like playing under pressure where making the correct reads in the heat of the moment, or rather second is a gift that not every QB has. Much like speed which separated Dalton from the pack, you can’t coach that. You can teach them what to look for presnap and for a split second after the snap but once the play starts to unfold, those QB’s that excel there have a natural ability that is very hard to coach up. It’s possible that the coaches have done the best they could do with the talent they’ve recruited. Remember, the only reason this is now in question is because a promising redshirt freshman who wasn’t given hardly any playing time said he felt he wasn’t growing in the QB room. That very well could mean more then just coaching abilities although that’s what we all think he was implying.

 

[AZGrizFan]

I would assume you’d put me in the “naysayers” category…I would disagree with your statement slightly. it’s not that they can’t coach “them” up. It’s that they can’t, specifically, coach QUARTERBACKS up. There hasn’t been one yet under this regime, while at virtually every other position they’ve been moderately to very successful coaching players up.

Sneed.

What did they do to coach Sneed up? He looked the very same at the end of his 2-year run as he did at the beginning. I’m talking about HS QB’s that come here and languish on the bench and never seem to be ready in the inevitable event that they’re called upon. They have a terrific track record at coaching up LB’s, DL, safeties, punters, KR’s, CB’s and RB’s. And to a lesser extent O-line…but QB’s? Zero, zilch, nada.

I repeat my statement about HS QB’s: i do not understand how Bobby gets ANY HS QB who TRULY wants to play QB to sign here. All one has to do is look at his track record since he got back and know that every year he’s gonna bring in a transfer, anoint them the starter, and the HS QB will languish on the bench, ultimate leaving the team or switching positions. And I’m fine with that…but it doesn’t change the fact that he still gets HS QB’s to fall for his sales pitch, and he still has yet to have one develop sufficiently to be ready when called upon.

Maybe that’s a function of the players’ abilities, but THAT is a reflection of coaching/recruiting failures as well.

 

[AZGrizFan]

I would assume you’d put me in the “naysayers” category…I would disagree with your statement slightly. it’s not that they can’t coach “them” up. It’s that they can’t, specifically, coach QUARTERBACKS up. There hasn’t been one yet under this regime, while at virtually every other position they’ve been moderately to very successful coaching players up.

I would counter that with a coach can only “coach up” as much as a players ability can allow. You can teach technique and knowledge but you can’t teach the tangibles like playing under pressure where making the correct reads in the heat of the moment, or rather second is a gift that not every QB has. Much like speed which separated Dalton from the pack, you can’t coach that. You can teach them what to look for presnap and for a split second after the snap but once the play starts to unfold, those QB’s that excel there have a natural ability that is very hard to coach up. It’s possible that the coaches have done the best they could do with the talent they’ve recruited. Remember, the only reason this is now in question is because a promising redshirt freshman who wasn’t given hardly any playing time said he felt he wasn’t growing in the QB room. That very well could mean more then just coaching abilities although that’s what we all think he was implying.

This was an issue and discussed here LONG before said RS Frosh made his comments on the way out the door. it’s obvious to the most casual observer. And were he the only data point I might agree with you. Alas, he is not…the list is long and illustrious.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

I see “coach up” has replaced “development” as the eGriz buzzword/phrase. “[position] room” seems to have fallen off a bit, as has “presser”.

 

[alabamagrizzly]

I would counter that with a coach can only “coach up” as much as a players ability can allow. You can teach technique and knowledge but you can’t teach the tangibles like playing under pressure where making the correct reads in the heat of the moment, or rather second is a gift that not every QB has. Much like speed which separated Dalton from the pack, you can’t coach that. You can teach them what to look for presnap and for a split second after the snap but once the play starts to unfold, those QB’s that excel there have a natural ability that is very hard to coach up. It’s possible that the coaches have done the best they could do with the talent they’ve recruited. Remember, the only reason this is now in question is because a promising redshirt freshman who wasn’t given hardly any playing time said he felt he wasn’t growing in the QB room. That very well could mean more then just coaching abilities although that’s what we all think he was implying.

This was an issue and discussed here LONG before said RS Frosh made his comments on the way out the door. it’s obvious to the most casual observer. And were he the only data point I might agree with you. Alas, he is not…the list is long and illustrious.

Ok but that still does not respond to my main point and that is maybe the coaches have got these guys as good as they can get givin their abilities. Were Sneed, Cam, and LJ not better QB’s when the left then when they first arrived?

 

[horribilisfan8184]

Sneed.

What did they do to coach Sneed up? He looked the very same at the end of his 2-year run as he did at the beginning. I’m talking about HS QB’s that come here and languish on the bench and never seem to be ready in the inevitable event that they’re called upon. They have a terrific track record at coaching up LB’s, DL, safeties, punters, KR’s, CB’s and RB’s. And to a lesser extent O-line…but QB’s? Zero, zilch, nada.

I repeat my statement about HS QB’s: i do not understand how Bobby gets ANY HS QB who TRULY wants to play QB to sign here. All one has to do is look at his track record since he got back and know that every year he’s gonna bring in a transfer, anoint them the starter, and the HS QB will languish on the bench, ultimate leaving the team or switching positions. And I’m fine with that…but it doesn’t change the fact that he still gets HS QB’s to fall for his sales pitch, and he still has yet to have one develop sufficiently to be ready when called upon.

Maybe that’s a function of the players’ abilities, but THAT is a reflection of coaching/recruiting failures as well.

You've finally found the logical conclusion. It is spotting talent that can be developed, not failure to develop. I'm trying to name one QB who has left the team that actually starred or "shined" for another team. Like Gresch, most had mediocre finishes.