Petition for Gov to look into RE

[kemajic]

I've known the author of the petition for a very long time, and he means well, but he gets "out" there sometimes. The University does not hear a voice committed to excellence when it hears Engstrom speak. He is extraordinarily passive about decision making, and postpones and postpones. After five years, he has not done anything for the University. He did not even read the "settlement agreement" that he now actually touts as an "accomplishment" because it is a model for "universities across the nation," an achievement that is widely derided by legal scholars across the spectrum as a cave-in for due process and student rights.

He hired a PR firm and his own careless leadership "style" is such that nobody in Main Hall even noticed that the PR firm got UM mixed up with MSU, and had promoted MSU in its first blast. It's that bad. And anybody watching the playoffs had to watch probably the worst ad ever produced to promote a University, repeatedly. There are some decent ads on the shelf, but nobody is paying attention. That one ran by default. It isn't just that somebody is asleep at the switch there, its as though there is no "switch."

He began the "layoff" meme himself when he let go two fine men. It is amazing that the football program came through that as well as it did; certainly a lot better than the University as whole. If ever there was proof that there was a need for change in "leadership," that was it, and subsequent events have shown it should have been Engstrom himself. "Sport" itself offers a good analogy. "Momentum" exists, on the field, in business, in organizations. And when the momentum is going backwards, you do something about it. If you are going three and out over and over and over, replace the QB. If you are getting interception after interception, change something, stop doing the same thing, and that's just as true for a University as a game against NDSU.

When he fired O'Day and Pflu, little did he realize he was setting something in motion that he could not control, and it may mean the end of his own career. The University is about $40 million down in accumulated cuts since Engstrom began his little firing spree and he is still, five years later, still entirely in a "reactive" mode. He started a fire he can't put out. It has never been this bad at the University of Montana.

Each quarter he will claim he has proof that the U has "turned the corner," and then six months later, confesses that more cuts are needed, larger and more devastating than the last. It's hard to tell if he is consciously lying because he just wants to hang on a bit longer, or if he actually believes what he says when he says it. Neither explanation is a good one.

He still has no strategic plan. That's simply unacceptable. It is a firing offense on its own.

You are better at this than arguing the significance of 3rd down conversion percentage and a single game performance as the key measures of a QB's value.

 

[BadlandsGrizFan]

Wouldn't you think it would have been more logical to petition Engstrom's bosses, the BOR, rather than the governor? Also, forging (spoofing?)Robin Pflugrad's signature was shockingly stupid on someone's part. If Engstrom is to be let go, it will be largely because of a vote of no confidence on the part of UM faculty, and perhaps that is coming. To have lost the confidence of the "egriz community," some of whose members have grudges relating only to a perceived lack of appreciation for the football program? MEH. Like Pflugrad, "I would question the validity of a petition like that." :twocents:

Engstroms bosses are possibly even dumber than Royce.

 

[UMGriz75]

You are better at this than arguing the significance of 3rd down conversion percentage and a single game performance as the key measures of a QB's value.

I'd say that after NDSU, my "key measures" were validated. Give it rest.

 

[NativeGriz]

You are better at this than arguing the significance of 3rd down conversion percentage and a single game performance as the key measures of a QB's value.

I'd say that after NDSU, my "key measures" were validated. Give it rest.

75 you could take his comments two ways. One your comments on RE are right on and I wish somehow we could get some movement with the BOR on that stuff. And your comments on the QB's value were also good, but not as good as what you stated about RE.

 

[bgbigdog]

I've known the author of the petition for a very long time, and he means well, but he gets "out" there sometimes. The University does not hear a voice committed to excellence when it hears Engstrom speak. He is extraordinarily passive about decision making, and postpones and postpones. After five years, he has not done anything for the University. He did not even read the "settlement agreement" that he now actually touts as an "accomplishment" because it is a model for "universities across the nation," an achievement that is widely derided by legal scholars across the spectrum as a cave-in for due process and student rights.

He hired a PR firm and his own careless leadership "style" is such that nobody in Main Hall even noticed that the PR firm got UM mixed up with MSU, and had promoted MSU in its first blast. It's that bad. It is also representative of the quality of choices they make in the first place. And anybody watching the playoffs had to watch probably the worst ad ever produced to promote a University, repeatedly. There are some decent ads on the shelf, but nobody is paying attention. That one ran by default. It isn't just that somebody is asleep at the switch there, its as though there is no "switch."

He began the "layoff" meme himself when he let go two fine men. It is amazing that the football program came through that as well as it did; certainly a lot better than the University as whole. If ever there was proof that there was a need for change in "leadership," that was it, and subsequent events have shown it should have been Engstrom himself. "Sport" itself offers a good analogy. "Momentum" exists, on the field, in business, in organizations. And when the momentum is going backwards, you do something about it. If you are going three and out over and over and over, replace the QB. If you are getting interception after interception, change something, stop doing the same thing, and that's just as true for a University as a game against NDSU.

When he fired O'Day and Pflu, little did he realize he was setting something in motion that he could not control, and it may mean the end of his own career. The University is about $40 million down in accumulated cuts since Engstrom began his little firing spree and he is still, five years later, still entirely in a "reactive" mode. He started a fire he can't put out. It has never been this bad at the University of Montana.

Each quarter he will claim he has proof that the U has "turned the corner," and then six months later, confesses that more cuts are needed, larger and more devastating than the last. It's hard to tell if he is consciously lying because he just wants to hang on a bit longer, or if he actually believes what he says when he says it. Neither explanation is a good one.

He still has no strategic plan. That's simply unacceptable. It is a firing offense on its own.

So with all that said, how does the BOR justify continuing with him? As you've noted, there is more than enough in terms of an actual track record to see that things aren't getting better.

 

[UMGriz75]

So with all that said, how does the BOR justify continuing with him? As you've noted, there is more than enough in terms of an actual track record to see that things aren't getting better.

I wish I knew. I sat on a Board of Governors for an Olympic Sport for 15 years, and this was our primary function, to monitor the CEO and the coaches, set management and policy goals, and keep a very tight rein on meeting those goals. From direct experience there, and common sense, five years is a verrry long time to let an organization drift like this. It is no longer a "problem" it becomes the "culture" of the organization. UM is just about there.

The scary part is, let drift long enough, it can become irreversible, past a point of no return. The image is indelibly etched in the public mind by headline after headline. Donors, parents, students, recruits, that's what they read, month after month, year after year. And, as Michael Ray Richardson once famously said, "this ship be sinkin'."

Engstrom can bless his lucky stars -- the only ones he apparently has -- that UM's sport teams are cranking out positive headlines and Rhodes Scholar candidates because that's the only good news that people are reading about UM these days.

And five years isn't enough, it's way too much. The BOR is long past the point of responsibly exercising its duties to the University System on this point. Their failure to do anything means that they, in turn, have set no management or policy goals for Engstrom, and their failure to demand even a Strategic Plan -- the heart of modern organizational planning -- is simply malpractice.

If -- and it is now a big "if" -- they are to turn this around, they need to act fast. I'm not confident that they will.

 

[NativeGriz]

What happened with his big plan for Missoula College ($45M+ project)? If he was the one that presented the proposal, it was doomed to begin with. What has RE accomplished since coming to Missoula? Why did the BOR give MSU such a great pres. and UM an under qualified man with no speaking skills? Why didn't the BOR reopen the search after the first 2 choices declined? With all things considered, the BOR has failed, Clay Christian has failed and now it is time to involve the governor if these other people wont do their jobs.

 

[UMGriz75]

maybe said in another way......because the BOR won't do anything about the problem....

There may be "something" to that. I'm not sure it was that well thought out, but the evidence is that the BOR has pretty much abdicated its responsibilities. What to do in that case?

Well, it's called "regulatory capture," when the agency designed to monitor and regulate management functions is, instead, captured by the management it is supposed to regulate. The management bestows perks, encourages allies to apply for regulatory positions; in turn, "independent" directors or trustees often end up depending on management perspectives rather than having truly independent perspectives.

When this happened in our Olympic sport, I (and others) went to the United States Olympic Committee and instituted formal proceedings against the management and the governing board. In turn, the USOC agreed that the board had lost its capacity for independent governance; agreeing that coaching had become a political process rather than merit based. In that case, I was appointed by the USOC to a governance task force to redesign the governance structure and coach selection processes in order to avoid the "regulatory capture" that had occurred, so that both the financial side was responsive to business and growth needs, and the sport side incorporated a metric based ("statistical models!") approach to coach and athlete selection rather than a "who knew who" model. These models are now more or less standard in Olympic sports for evaluating sport performance for both coaches and athletes and I am very familiar with them having designed several.

But, that was the task and there was an option there.

Regents are designed to be "independent" so as to be free of Montana "politics." Other than appointments as they come up, the Governor has no specific regulatory power over the BOR. But, that's also a situation ripe for regulatory capture, and the choice seats at games, lavish receptions, and junkets may sway the regents in favor of presidents that aggressively curry such favor.

However, the Governor has his "bully pulpit," and perhaps that is what the Petition is aiming at.

 

[kemajic]

You are better at this than arguing the significance of 3rd down conversion percentage and a single game performance as the key measures of a QB's value.

I'd say that after NDSU, my "key measures" were validated. Give it rest.

Really? NDSU was 1 for 14 on third downs.

 

[UMGriz75]

You are better at this than arguing the significance of 3rd down conversion percentage and a single game performance as the key measures of a QB's value.

I'd say that after NDSU, my "key measures" were validated. Give it rest.

Really? NDSU was 1 for 14 on third downs.

Three weeks before the NDSU game, I did not look at the NDSU results that had not happened yet. I was looking at the expected performance of UM QBs based on statistics available at that time, and watching the on-field performances in successive games, which as I stated, were not a lot but "this is what they show," and it wasn't so good. As it turned out, they were spot on. Unfortunately.

 

[Umista]

Conventional wisdom and our plight? Yes the BOR seems to be a group just like one would think of political appointed groups that have "political plumb appointments." This bunch is made up of educated good old boys and girls with a soft cozy job and nothing to lose. Some sit in the football game box with Engstrom and glad hand some of us that occasionally sit in this tight little box sipping a glass of wine etc. Getting rid of Royce will be tough if we expect the BOR to make such a move without an uprising of normal folks (not profs) making a large smelly stink.

Above, what I mean by normal folks is simple. These are the taxpayers, students, politicians, workers and not necessarily college graduated people. Of course the Prof's are important but should NOT be the only ones leading this charge.

Poor Royce has been beat up by Wadded and out gunned every which way.... but the BOR seems to smile at both presidents with little fanfare and they like sitting with like minded academics while sipping wine!

Yes indeed some (not smart) folks like me have provided money to U of M thinking it was going to a good cause for many reasons such as our children attending and us loving the sports programs etc. Watching the UM debacle with Royce Engstrom at the head is more than I can bear. Obviously I did not graduate...

 

[kemajic]

You are better at this than arguing the significance of 3rd down conversion percentage and a single game performance as the key measures of a QB's value.

I'd say that after NDSU, my "key measures" were validated. Give it rest.

Really? NDSU was 1 for 14 on third downs.

Three weeks before the NDSU game, I did not look at the NDSU results that had not happened yet. I was looking at the expected performance of UM QBs based on statistics available at that time, and watching the on-field performances in successive games, which as I stated, were not a lot but "this is what they show," and it wasn't so good. As it turned out, they were spot on. Unfortunately.

You claim prophet status when the winning QB was 1 for 14 on third down conversions, your most emphasized evaluator of QB success. You sound just like Obama; no accountability.

 

[UMGriz75]

You claim prophet status when the winning QB was 1 for 14 on third down conversions, your most emphasized evaluator of QB success. You sound just like Obama; no accountability.

Please, ditch the attitude. I offered an evaluation based on a matrix: overthrows, miscommunications, third down conversions, passing percentage, average and long passing, use of the outstanding talent at the WR positions. In turn, those were compared over each progression of each QB from their first start game through their next series; three QBs under the same coach, and the delta of those metrics, and a discussion of why QBs were having decreased success with each progressive series, something that I had not seen before anywhere with a single QB, let alone 3 successive QBs (call it 4 with Brady's return and the start of a new series, with the same resulting pattern).

Yes, third down conversions were part of it; but NDSU hadn't happened yet, and we were not discussing their coach or their second string QB, nor NDSU's overall metrics. Why we would have discussed the outcome of a game that hadn't happened yet perhaps is better explained by what you are trying to claim, rather than what actually happened. Or can we assume this isn't actually about Obama? What connection does it have to the Petition?

 

[tnt]

What connection does it have to the Petition?

About as much connection as the Law Schools explanation for another record drop in their Grads passing the Bar Exam being "They changed the test" and it NOT being the quality of the education....... Maybe Royce ought to start the "cuts" there. Don't think the petition will pan out in time for the Law School, Romantic Languages etc.....

 

[EverettGriz]

What happened with his big plan for Missoula College ($45M+ project)? If he was the one that presented the proposal, it was doomed to begin with. What has RE accomplished since coming to Missoula? Why did the BOR give MSU such a great pres. and UM an under qualified man with no speaking skills? Why didn't the BOR reopen the search after the first 2 choices declined? With all things considered, the BOR has failed, Clay Christian has failed and now it is time to involve the governor if these other people wont do their jobs.

Evidently not, since construction has begun and is scheduled to be done in the summer of 2017. :?

Seriously. If some of you don't even know the very basics of what you're talking about regarding what's happening at UM, perhaps consider 10 minutes spent on google prior to posting.

 

[UMGriz75]

What happened with his big plan for Missoula College ($45M+ project)? If he was the one that presented the proposal, it was doomed to begin with.

Evidently not, since construction has begun and is scheduled to be done in the summer of 2017. :?

The decision there was another oddity. The decision had been made, some time ago, to overcome the awkward situation of two locations, far out in Target Range and then next to Sentinel. That decision may have been made while Dennison was still President. Students there are on the same schedules as the main campus, and also take classes on the main campus. That's pretty tough to get from a class at Target Range to the Main Campus in ten minutes. Or in any combination of Main Campus, Sentinel, Target Range.

So, as RE undertook the final planning, the "concept" was to construct a completely new college campus, replacing the Target Range and Sentinel campuses. RE wanted to take open space at the UM golf course, just because it was there. All the plans were drawn up for that; and advanced the concept based on the consolidation of the two tech campuses. Except, they had to leave construction and industrial tech out at Target Range because it needed the space for heavy equipment and trucks. So there wasn't any genuine consolidation; just new buildings that didn't solve what was ostensibly the original problem.

When people raised a ruckus, both over the loss of open space and the fact that the plan didn't solve the ostensible "problems" as claimed, RE was the veritable chicken caught in the headlights. He didn't seem to be aware of the announced need for consolidating the campuses and really had no rebuttal in a community that highly values its open space, and especially the historically significant area at the UM golf course. When a group (that I briefly advised) noted that the original deed to the University for the property required, as a condition of the grant, that it remain open space for the benefit of students, Engstrom was caught totally flat. It was obvious that his administration hadn't done its title diligence; didn't seem to be aware that it had promised this would solve the two campus problem, and was surprised by the depth of protest.

They retreated, and redesigned the proposal for some commercial property on East Broadway, and construction is well underway, having started in the Spring of 2015. The new location didn't solve the two campus problem, but did make a much better location in terms of access to the Main UM campus, and saving the open space.

The downside was the loss of substantial time, money, an antagonism with the community, and the developing perception that Engstrom does not manage details, concepts, public relations and staff very well. Nice guy, but just blundered through the process. The forced end result was certainly an improvement in the concept, but added yet another example of dithering and misunderstanding, confrontation and retreat, that seems to be becoming a hallmark of Engstrom's "era." It was another "unforced error" that staff seems to be committing with regularity, including this past week, at UM.

The Tech college is another part of UM for which no Strategic Plan appears to exist for its development, despite the fact that a brand new facility would seem to be the ideal time to develop one.

The next battle shaping up is over historic Schreiber Gym. The "repurposing" is under way. Details to emerge. You read it here first. It will be yet another battle on a campus that seems to invite them just to spend money.

 

[gotgame75]

This should tell you all you need to know about the BoR. Clay Christian, the Chairman of BoR, who makes $290K a year and is the highest education official in the state, has neither his Masters nor his PhD. He got his Bachelor's in his late 30's, not too long before he became Chairman, and by his own admission barely got that. How is it possible that the head of education for entire state is not even required to have his Master, let alone a PhD?!

Another piece of pertinent info, Royce was a major supporter of Clay in his bid to become Chairman...

 

[PlayerRep]

What happened with his big plan for Missoula College ($45M+ project)? If he was the one that presented the proposal, it was doomed to begin with. What has RE accomplished since coming to Missoula? Why did the BOR give MSU such a great pres. and UM an under qualified man with no speaking skills? Why didn't the BOR reopen the search after the first 2 choices declined? With all things considered, the BOR has failed, Clay Christian has failed and now it is time to involve the governor if these other people wont do their jobs.

Evidently not, since construction has begun and is scheduled to be done in the summer of 2017. :?

Seriously. If some of you don't even know the very basics of what you're talking about regarding what's happening at UM, perhaps consider 10 minutes spent on google prior to posting.

Fund-raising for the private donation piece is not complete, though.

 

[NativeGriz]

What happened with his big plan for Missoula College ($45M+ project)? If he was the one that presented the proposal, it was doomed to begin with. What has RE accomplished since coming to Missoula? Why did the BOR give MSU such a great pres. and UM an under qualified man with no speaking skills? Why didn't the BOR reopen the search after the first 2 choices declined? With all things considered, the BOR has failed, Clay Christian has failed and now it is time to involve the governor if these other people wont do their jobs.

Evidently not, since construction has begun and is scheduled to be done in the summer of 2017. :?

Seriously. If some of you don't even know the very basics of what you're talking about regarding what's happening at UM, perhaps consider 10 minutes spent on google prior to posting.

OK, I will own that one. I quit reading Missoulian a few years back over protest about GF etc. But you are right, a simple internet search would have given me the info needed.

 

[tnt]

What happened with his big plan for Missoula College ($45M+ project)? If he was the one that presented the proposal, it was doomed to begin with. What has RE accomplished since coming to Missoula? Why did the BOR give MSU such a great pres. and UM an under qualified man with no speaking skills? Why didn't the BOR reopen the search after the first 2 choices declined? With all things considered, the BOR has failed, Clay Christian has failed and now it is time to involve the governor if these other people wont do their jobs.

Evidently not, since construction has begun and is scheduled to be done in the summer of 2017. :?

Seriously. If some of you don't even know the very basics of what you're talking about regarding what's happening at UM, perhaps consider 10 minutes spent on google prior to posting.

Fund-raising for the private donation piece is not complete, though.

Its close. As much as 75 wants to blame this mess on RE, he simply can't. Its just one more of the many messes he inherited from Dennison. Recall a big part of the whole thing was Dennison basically wanting to "sub divide" the golf course. He wanted to build "condos" for all the rah rah boys wanting to relive their college days and live on "campus" to be closer to the wine and cheese parties for the in crowd. The fight with the faculty senate is the same that has been going on since for ever. The humanities type want a purity of academics without oversite so they can sit around and talk lofty thoughts, and of course have someone else pay for it. Sort of a taxpayer funded egriz for academics who of course are better than anyone, and resent education lite fro Missoula college whose job is to produce graduates qualified to do a job.