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OK Tinkle lovers. Justify his existence please.
- Thread starter robomomo
- Start date
Checked UM basketball records going back to 1903 and unless I'm mistaken tonight's debacle established two new records - home or away. Fifty-two points is the largest losing margin ever and the 108 PSU points were the most ever by an opponent. My eyes are bleary this time of night so I hope I'm wrong. If so, I welcome somebody setting me right. As for the Koolaid drinkers you can't hang most of this disaster on the kids. It's why they fire coaches. Not players.
As the man on the radio says, "This is grisly basketball."
As the man on the radio says, "This is grisly basketball."
GrizWhiz
Well-known member
Tinks was pretty discouraged and down. He did not use the fact that PSU played great as any sort of reason for the horrible showing by the Griz. He said PSU played like men and the Griz played like boys. Aside from the shock of this debacle, I was left with a real sense of worry regarding team quickness, including for next season. PSU was tons quicker than the Griz and this really paid off offensively and in rebounding. I am concerned that our quickness deficit is likely to extend into next year. Not a good night to feel hopeful about the future of Griz hoops. :crybaby:griz71 said:
Here's how Huse described the 96-68 defeat by PSU on Thurs, in which PSU shot 70% from the field and 64% from 3-pt. range:
"They just handled us," said MSU coach Brad Huse, "and we didn't show much fight, which has been kind of our trademark this year. We were disjointed, and disconnected. Credit where credit is due, they didn't miss many shots."
The Bobcats shot just 38% from the field, including 6-for-22 from three-point range, but Huse said much of MSU's trouble stemmed from its opponent. "A big part of it was Portland State," Huse said. "How they played, how they executed, they just made plays."
"They just handled us," said MSU coach Brad Huse, "and we didn't show much fight, which has been kind of our trademark this year. We were disjointed, and disconnected. Credit where credit is due, they didn't miss many shots."
The Bobcats shot just 38% from the field, including 6-for-22 from three-point range, but Huse said much of MSU's trouble stemmed from its opponent. "A big part of it was Portland State," Huse said. "How they played, how they executed, they just made plays."
Tinkle could just cut and past huses' words... PSU was unstoppable.
But that's no excuse for the Griz getting DOMINATED on the boards AND scrapping any sort of an offensive scheme with 12 minutes left in the first half. Was it just me, or did the whole playbook just fly right out the window? Qvale got the up-side of a mismatch in the paint more than five times in the second half that I saw, and we couldn't even get him the ball.
But that's no excuse for the Griz getting DOMINATED on the boards AND scrapping any sort of an offensive scheme with 12 minutes left in the first half. Was it just me, or did the whole playbook just fly right out the window? Qvale got the up-side of a mismatch in the paint more than five times in the second half that I saw, and we couldn't even get him the ball.
i'm sticking with tinkle through next year but i must say, this game has shaken my faith like a 7.1 earthquake, to wit:
recruiting: i thought this was tinkle's strength, thought he was out-recruiting the other big sky schools, but the scary thing about tonight is, portland state may be that much better than we are. i cannot recall ever another big sky school steamrolling through montana like the vikings did this week.
vanderjagt: a huge mistake to recruit him in the first place, then not to lay down the law about a redshirt year. he's now halfway through his career, and shows no evidence he'll be more than spot role player, the while he breaks the nose of our best player. but this one's on krysko, not tinks. aussie players have contributed mightily to any number of programs throughout the country, and luc longley sticks us with the one stiff from down under.
graves: i just don't get it. you recruit a player, give him a redshirt year to mature, then he sits on the bench another full year in what would be his sophomore year. either you haven't given the kid any chance, or you're admitting you're a bad judge of talent--i don't know which is worse.
qvale: sure, hindsight is 20-20, but when you blow a kid's redshirt year, and the season winds up like this, you've made a horrible error in judgment. after the bum won-loss record when expectations were so high, this is the single biggest disappointment of the season for me.
intensity: much as i dislike bobby knight's methods, it's his kind of mania that seems to prevail in college basketball. i can't remember one game this year where we played one complete game, end to end, both halves, defense and offense. i question whether our kids have a clue what it takes today to play championship basketball, or approach the game with half the intensity of a scrawny white kid from missoula who virtually willed himself to become a professional basketball player. jud heathcote would not have tolerated the kind of performance i saw last year at sac state, or the one we apparently gave tonight. i'm sending this team rattlesnakes. they need to get some venom. tinkle needs to get some venom. come to think of it, i'm sending beastie and robomomo. i'm sending human venom.
recruiting: i thought this was tinkle's strength, thought he was out-recruiting the other big sky schools, but the scary thing about tonight is, portland state may be that much better than we are. i cannot recall ever another big sky school steamrolling through montana like the vikings did this week.
vanderjagt: a huge mistake to recruit him in the first place, then not to lay down the law about a redshirt year. he's now halfway through his career, and shows no evidence he'll be more than spot role player, the while he breaks the nose of our best player. but this one's on krysko, not tinks. aussie players have contributed mightily to any number of programs throughout the country, and luc longley sticks us with the one stiff from down under.
graves: i just don't get it. you recruit a player, give him a redshirt year to mature, then he sits on the bench another full year in what would be his sophomore year. either you haven't given the kid any chance, or you're admitting you're a bad judge of talent--i don't know which is worse.
qvale: sure, hindsight is 20-20, but when you blow a kid's redshirt year, and the season winds up like this, you've made a horrible error in judgment. after the bum won-loss record when expectations were so high, this is the single biggest disappointment of the season for me.
intensity: much as i dislike bobby knight's methods, it's his kind of mania that seems to prevail in college basketball. i can't remember one game this year where we played one complete game, end to end, both halves, defense and offense. i question whether our kids have a clue what it takes today to play championship basketball, or approach the game with half the intensity of a scrawny white kid from missoula who virtually willed himself to become a professional basketball player. jud heathcote would not have tolerated the kind of performance i saw last year at sac state, or the one we apparently gave tonight. i'm sending this team rattlesnakes. they need to get some venom. tinkle needs to get some venom. come to think of it, i'm sending beastie and robomomo. i'm sending human venom.
GrizBBIsKing
Well-known member
GrizWhiz said:
Not only has PSU quickness paid off on offense and rebounding, but it really paid off for PSU's defense. PSU's quickness on defense revealed just how slow the Griz are on offense. And there is one thing I beleive in, the slowness of the Griz offense is a big reason Griz haven't been able to beat the top 3 teams in the league this year. Griz do to much dribbling around the key instead of passing. The guards do not get the ball to the inside guys soon enough.
Went to the game last night, needed a double of whiskey afterwards... ugh.
I was running a little late and by the time we got in there is was 17-9 PSU. I sat down thinking, "Alright, they've got to battle back." But you could almost see it on the court, the Griz had already switched into desperation mode, firing up ill-advised 3s, throwing a lot of high-risk passes, and not even sticking to any sort of game plan I'd seen in any of the other games I've attended this year.
Blame goes all around, there's no excuses for such a poorly played game. Blaming Tinkle fully is wrong though, I really doubt he was telling his guys to take NBA-range 3-point shots with more than 30 seconds left on the shot clock.
The whole team just seemed shell shocked, just two days earlier I saw them very confidentley glide past a UNC team that couldn't get the ball inside and couldn't contain our guards.
The two biggest things that really surprised me was:
1. Junk 3-point shots. Can't even single out one or two guys, it seemed like everyone thought if they could just hit a few desperation 3s the Griz would be back in it.
2. Rebounding. PSU looked like they were playing against a JV high school team in the paint, our centers and forwards were simply shrugged aside at times by the PSU players.
------------
Right now the Griz have two choices. They can let this loss consume them and they'll probably go lay an egg in Poky. Or they can use it to motivate themselves, get back up off the floor and go give ISU hell.
I was running a little late and by the time we got in there is was 17-9 PSU. I sat down thinking, "Alright, they've got to battle back." But you could almost see it on the court, the Griz had already switched into desperation mode, firing up ill-advised 3s, throwing a lot of high-risk passes, and not even sticking to any sort of game plan I'd seen in any of the other games I've attended this year.
Blame goes all around, there's no excuses for such a poorly played game. Blaming Tinkle fully is wrong though, I really doubt he was telling his guys to take NBA-range 3-point shots with more than 30 seconds left on the shot clock.
The whole team just seemed shell shocked, just two days earlier I saw them very confidentley glide past a UNC team that couldn't get the ball inside and couldn't contain our guards.
The two biggest things that really surprised me was:
1. Junk 3-point shots. Can't even single out one or two guys, it seemed like everyone thought if they could just hit a few desperation 3s the Griz would be back in it.
2. Rebounding. PSU looked like they were playing against a JV high school team in the paint, our centers and forwards were simply shrugged aside at times by the PSU players.
------------
Right now the Griz have two choices. They can let this loss consume them and they'll probably go lay an egg in Poky. Or they can use it to motivate themselves, get back up off the floor and go give ISU hell.
The 3 point bombing has been the m.o. for this team all season. Unfortunately, it might seem, there we a few games where the 3 point line was an easy shot for our guys. However, take a look at Martin's numbers the past 4 games (and he's not alone): these kids continue to just throw it up with no conscience. I believe any future wins this season go STRAIT through the paint...
And for crying out loud, we have the biggest team in the conference, maybe box out a guy or two???
They have a chance to prove the underachieving was just a mirage...I hope they can, but I know many of us don't have any faith in this team-
And for crying out loud, we have the biggest team in the conference, maybe box out a guy or two???
They have a chance to prove the underachieving was just a mirage...I hope they can, but I know many of us don't have any faith in this team-
Bozgriz said:
The 3 point arc has been either the make or break for this team in many games. When the deep shooters are on, it's very tough to beat the Griz. When they're off though, it seems like in some games (not all) they continue to cast away and ignore the big men inside. Now last night though, PSU had Strait locked down, they'd double the guy everytime he got a whiff of the ball, they knew who needed to be stopped.
I wonder if this could be more proof that this team will continue to play lop-sided ball until they get forwards that can make more mid-range shots. The Griz are either a 3 point team or an inside team, but 12 foot jumpers have seemed to all but vanish. Hopefully next year guys like McGillis & Taylor will help correct that issue.
PSU doubled Strait when he got the ball down low, there is no way UM was going to win the game going to consistently to Strait. UM need to find other ways to get some offense, and shooting 3-pointers was one of those ways. Note that a couple longer (i.e. ill-advised to some of you) 3's went in, including Rundle's. Most of UM's long range shooters can shoot from NBA range. It's not so much how long the shot is; it's how open and/or squared up the player is, which determines whether it's ill-advised. PSU made tons of 3-pointers from close to NBA range, by the way.
PSU played good, tight, aggressive and physical defense. That impacted UM's offense significantly. In the early part of the game, the refs let the game be physical and didn't call fouls involving aggression. PSU allowed Stauds only one open look, that was in the second half in transition, and he knocked it down. One and perhaps 2 of his first half shots were blocked.
In my view, UM had no chance of coming back, after the first 10 or so minutes, unless they started knocking down 3-pointers--and several of the guys were to get hot.
PSU played good, tight, aggressive and physical defense. That impacted UM's offense significantly. In the early part of the game, the refs let the game be physical and didn't call fouls involving aggression. PSU allowed Stauds only one open look, that was in the second half in transition, and he knocked it down. One and perhaps 2 of his first half shots were blocked.
In my view, UM had no chance of coming back, after the first 10 or so minutes, unless they started knocking down 3-pointers--and several of the guys were to get hot.
GrizWhiz
Well-known member
Never be the same as what?? You completely negate any credibility you may have when you include Hauck as an example of failure. Winning the Big Sky every year, undefeated regular seasons, etc. are not what most people would define as the result of an "unqualified" hire. It is amazing how spoiled Griz football fans are. :twocents:Cat Scat said:
I think you PR may have inadvertantly hit upon a key point. Teams are able to doubleteam down on Strait because we can't shoot from the outside right now...They are simply daring the Griz to shoot the 3 ball. The result the past 5 games has been very poor:
vs Nau (7 of 24 29%) Martin 1 of 5
vs Weber (5 of 30 17%) Martin 1 of 10
vs Idaho St (7 of 19 37%) Martin 1 of 6
vs N. Colo (11 of 29 38%) Martin 1 of 6
vs PSU (6 of 25 24%) Martin 1 of 7
Overall 36 of 127 28% with Martin a terrible 5 of 34 14.7%...and, there are two wins in there. Take those out and the Griz are 18 of 79 23%...ouch-
The question becomes how can we improve this percentage because this team will clearly continue to cast them up there...
Do these kids have a confidence problem? Or, is this an attitude problem? Reading Colin's blog, the second question comes to the forefront...
vs Nau (7 of 24 29%) Martin 1 of 5
vs Weber (5 of 30 17%) Martin 1 of 10
vs Idaho St (7 of 19 37%) Martin 1 of 6
vs N. Colo (11 of 29 38%) Martin 1 of 6
vs PSU (6 of 25 24%) Martin 1 of 7
Overall 36 of 127 28% with Martin a terrible 5 of 34 14.7%...and, there are two wins in there. Take those out and the Griz are 18 of 79 23%...ouch-
The question becomes how can we improve this percentage because this team will clearly continue to cast them up there...
Do these kids have a confidence problem? Or, is this an attitude problem? Reading Colin's blog, the second question comes to the forefront...
Bozgriz said:
I don't have a problem with the amount of 3's we shoot - I just wish the right guys would shoot them at the right time. Martin's line looks bad lately, but alot of those were at the end of some rough games.
Everybody is always referring to Strait being double-teamed. I don't see that. When I watch the griz I see the opposing 5 have no trouble shutting him down all by himself. I think other teams have figured Strait out - don't leave your feet and get him more than 5 feet from the hoop. We talk alot about his FG%, but with his range, it should be around 70%.
Strait does a great job of scoring before he gets the ball, but this team needs to realize that if he doesn't get that early work done, it is not going to happen and he needs to start kicking it back out. I think he gets frustrtated when he doesn't see the ball for awhile and ends up forcing shots that he otherwise wouldn't. If Andrew would get better and kicking it back out, I think he would do wonders for his opportunities down low.
I'm not sure what the answer is for this team, but they NEED to move the ball better. It needs to go "in" and back "out" and "in" and "out". We don't do that very well. The ball just stands still too much. We are too easy to guard.
When Hasquet drives to the hole, about 90% of the time, the first person he runs into his one of his own guys. Why can't we figure this out? When somebody beats a grizzly, they go all the way to the hole unmolested. We can't even get a guy past his own teammate!
Everybody is talking about next year - it sounds alot like last year when everybody was talking about this year. I think next year's team will realize a similar fate if our coaching philosophy doesn't change considerably.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: If Larry K had this team and last year's team, there is no way the seasons would have looked like this. No way. Look at the misfits he played U of Wash with 3 years ago. Talk about overachieving.
GrizWhiz
Well-known member
I don't argue that Larry K may very well have been more successful, but "misfits"?? I disagree. Kamarr Davis was a dominating center and looked like the best player on the floor in the loss to Washington. Criswell and Matthews were tremendous players and had everything to do with the Griz success in the following season. That team also had Matt Dlouhy and a young but already productive Andrew Strait and Matt Martin. Hardly "misfits". :thumb:griz17 said:
AtHomeInTheDahlbergDen
Well-known member
No, strait got doubled just about every time he touched the ball last night. I think PSU even tossed a couple triples in there. When guys aren't making outside shots more comes down on him and everything just goes to hell
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