No Way JJ Can Be Convicted

[argh!]

the next day she managed to go to the rape trauma center (or whatever it is called), too.

you must have a very interesting life, what with your ability to travel back to the past and read people's minds.

Let's see, if I wasn't sure I had been raped, I ... go to a rape trauma center? They need to tell me ... what? Oh yeah, it's to "make that record" that I might want "use" later. And of course, if I am serious about the "rape" part, I give them all the evidence, right?

"At First Step, Doe was instructed to collect her blanket for evidentiary purposes but she declined to do so because she didn't want to give up her blanket."

You'd think with all the trauma and sandwiches flying around, it would be the "object of horror" and she would gladly follow their professional advice. But, she wanted to keep it. SHE WANTED TO KEEP IT! That's what trauma victims do!

"After her First Step exam. Doe attended a Super Bowl party and then later that evening went to work at the Ronald McDonald House. Doe mentioned attending the party in her first written statement but, in later ve~ions, including the one she later used to get an order of protection, Doe asserts that after the First Step exam, she remained home for the rest of the day, with the exception of the Ronald McDonald House. The reference to the Super Bowl party had been deleted In her "official" statement to University officials."

But, then she waits four weeks, no word from JJ. She writes a letter to him. Her "feelings are hurt."

He doesn't respond.

She then claims under oath that she has an imminent fear of bodily harm from somebody she hasn't heard from in six weeks, but most significantly, hadn't responded to her contact with him, and to her "hurt feelings."

you really are a sad person. i hope you aren't in a position to make decisions that seriously impact the lives of others. and no, that is not an invitation to "brag" to egriz about whatever it is you do, or whatever your station in life happens to be, so please spare us. even the most dense could guess that you view yourself as very important, regardless of whether you are or not. (see, i can engage in making my conjecture "right", too!)

 

[tnt]

When one puts on pink colored glasses they start acting like activist social workers. Try hanging out with guys once in a while. BTW, I hope that one of the daughters who had this reaction wasn't the supposed Judge from Kansas. If she was shocked by a motion from a defense attorney, she has no right being a Judge.

Who said she was shocked? Victim Blaming has been the defense forever, sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. Clinical social workers pretty much spend their careers picking up the pieces from "real men"

 

[UMGriz75]

It is a tough argument to say "I don't think he thinks he did anything wrong," and make that consistent with the allegation that "I said no," a claim which she appears to have abandoned in subsequent interviews.

If she believes she sent clear signals, how can she justify her own belief that JJ likely does not believe he did anything wrong? However, that is consistent with "the reason I feel this whole situation is my fault is because I feel like I gave Jordan mixed signals which caused him to act in the way he did.... Maybe it was the clothes I was wearing that day, us making out, or me taking off my shirt that made Jordan think that I wanted to have sex?"

Here she claims SHE took off her own shirt; again, a change of story from her initial claim that JJ had removed her clothing. I have no idea what it means these days when a 20 yo takes you in her bedroom, shuts the door, takes off her shirt and sits on you. In my day, it did not mean we had to get ready for Church in 20 minutes. I doubt that the meaning has changed much. Exactly what is that SUPPOSED to signal after she had told him publicly that she would "do him any time"? She says in essence she doesn't blame JJ for being confused.

Except after not responding to her letter claiming her "feelings were hurt." Now she does blame him. Everything in this case that she has alleged has an expiration date of not too many days.

H***, JJ didn't know she had been abused in Great Falls, and had PTSD, threatened suicide and suffered depression and that those were the reasons that he "should have known" that she wasn't consenting. He "likely" thought that she invited him into her bedroom, took off her clothes and sat on him after taking off his clothes because she really meant she wanted to watch a movie she had selected about a young girl fabricating a life of sexual adventures. It's a natural mistake for young people to make.

Well, that is going to be one confused jury, that's for sure.

But not confused "beyond a reasonable doubt."

 

[ranco]

8 weeks after the event I'm not sure what wanna get some lunch means? Maybe she was Hungry??? Think she might have been able to eat after a couple months???

Well, before she gave him a ride home, she did so "after fixing herself a snack In her kItchen and eating it." Perhaps it was just normal routine trauma-induced munchies. The next day she managed a trauma-induced Super Bowl Party with her friends.

I understand the theory. All evidence of frustration means she was raped. All unusual behaviors means she was raped. All perfectly normal behaviors means she was raped. Leading a perfectly normal life means she was raped. Seeking revenge for a jilted one-sided love affair means she was raped. If she was hungry, it means she was raped. If she wasn't hungry, it means she was raped. Saying she thought JJ really didn't do anything wrong means she was raped.

I understand the theory.

...and not yelling "rape" or "help" to your male roommates who are just a few feet away is also a sure sign of rape.

 

[UMGriz75]

you really are a sad person. i hope you aren't in a position to make decisions that seriously impact the lives of others. and no, that is not an invitation to "brag" to egriz about whatever it is you do, or whatever your station in life happens to be, so please spare us. even the most dense could guess that you view yourself as very important, regardless of whether you are or not. (see, i can engage in making my conjecture "right", too!)

Well, you know, cases are prepared, presented, and resolved by discussing evidence and their presentation.

You like to personalize the discussions -- you do it repeatedly -- because you think people are sad, traumatized, misled, confused, ... in essence "evidence" to you is entirely a subjective thing entrapped by your personal mood swings, which you project readily onto others as a substitute for the honest deconstruction of a culturally sensitive case with significant local ramifications. Geez, I'm sad, Jane Doe is traumatized: you've got an analysis for everybody, Freud Lite, except facts ...

And you don't want anyone to "brag to egriz" about who they are or what they do or who they are married to; you want to reserve that for yourself.

 

[tnt]

8 weeks after the event I'm not sure what wanna get some lunch means? Maybe she was Hungry??? Think she might have been able to eat after a couple months???

Well, before she gave him a ride home, she did so "after fixing herself a snack In her kItchen and eating it." Perhaps it was just normal routine trauma-induced munchies. The next day she managed a trauma-induced Super Bowl Party with her friends.

I understand the theory. All evidence of frustration means she was raped. All unusual behaviors means she was raped. All perfectly normal behaviors means she was raped. Leading a perfectly normal life means she was raped. Seeking revenge for a jilted one-sided love affair means she was raped. If she was hungry, it means she was raped. If she wasn't hungry, it means she was raped. Saying she thought JJ really didn't do anything wrong means she was raped.

I understand the theory.

...and not yelling "rape" or "help" to your male roommates who are just a few feet away is also a sure sign of rape.

And of course NO ONE facing 40 years in prison would ever change the story for his benefit.

 

[AZGrizFan]

.

Well, that is going to be one confused jury, that's for sure.

But not confused "beyond a reasonable doubt."

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[snap]

you really are a sad person. i hope you aren't in a position to make decisions that seriously impact the lives of others. and no, that is not an invitation to "brag" to egriz about whatever it is you do, or whatever your station in life happens to be, so please spare us. even the most dense could guess that you view yourself as very important, regardless of whether you are or not. (see, i can engage in making my conjecture "right", too!)

Well, you know, cases are prepared, presented, and resolved by discussing evidence and their presentation.

You like to personalize the discussions -- you do it repeatedly -- because you think people are sad, traumatized, misled, confused, ... in essence "evidence" to you is entirely a subjective thing entrapped by your personal mood swings, which you project readily onto others as a substitute for the honest deconstruction of a culturally sensitive case with significant local ramifications. Geez, I'm sad, Jane Doe is traumatized: you've got an analysis for everybody, Freud Lite, except facts ...

And you don't want anyone to "brag to egriz" about who they are or what they do or who they are married to; you want to reserve that for yourself.

aargh is getting owned.

 

[JBS]

9 kids?

Yup,they are adopted age ranged from 6-12 when we got them. (One girl was 4) I'm only 60 going on 90. Still know the youth court judges by their first name.

must have kept your pants on! :thumb:

After seein what those kids went through and any number of those we fostered, i certainly know the value of keeping them on :lol:

The reality is JJ is the victim of very poor/lax parenting or bad messages from other adults in his life. No kid should be the victim of these kinds of decisions without having his eyes wide open first. Both of these kids could use some "help" but I think they outlawed woodsheds a while ago. But the "legal system" isn 't the answer (I don't think)

If college kids trying to get laid are the victims of bad parenting, than the huge majority of parents whose kids go to college are bad parents. Just more dumb from you. You are in the minority and your bias shows in the above post. I guess I should say I admire your morals and restraint and all that, but the truth is I don't. In fact, I don't believe much of what you say. If what you say above is YOUR reality, where everyone is a victim of something, and the parents of NORMAL kids are somehow bad parents, than you can GFY.

BTW. In an earlier post you seemed to be making fun of JJs sexual prowess. Hypocritical much?

 

[snap]

Yup,they are adopted age ranged from 6-12 when we got them. (One girl was 4) I'm only 60 going on 90. Still know the youth court judges by their first name.

must have kept your pants on! :thumb:

After seein what those kids went through and any number of those we fostered, i certainly know the value of keeping them on :lol:

The reality is JJ is the victim of very poor/lax parenting or bad messages from other adults in his life. No kid should be the victim of these kinds of decisions without having his eyes wide open first. Both of these kids could use some "help" but I think they outlawed woodsheds a while ago. But the "legal system" isn 't the answer (I don't think)

If college kids trying to get laid are the victims of bad parenting, than the huge majority of parents whose kids go to college are bad parents. Just more dumb from you. You are in the minority and your bias shows in the above post. I guess I should say I admire your morals and restraint and all that, but the truth is I don't. In fact, I don't believe much of what you say. If what you say above is YOUR reality, where everyone is a victim of something, and the parents of NORMAL kids are somehow bad parents, than you can GFY.

BTW. In an earlier post you seemed to be making fun of JJs sexual prowess. Hypocritical much?

tnt is getting owned too. This is ugly.

 

[JBS]

When one puts on pink colored glasses they start acting like activist social workers. Try hanging out with guys once in a while. BTW, I hope that one of the daughters who had this reaction wasn't the supposed Judge from Kansas. If she was shocked by a motion from a defense attorney, she has no right being a Judge.

Who said she was shocked? Victim Blaming has been the defense forever, sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. Clinical social workers pretty much spend their careers picking up the pieces from "real men"

Who said anything about "real men"? I expect that reaction from a social worker, I was talking about a Judge.

 

[nzone]

And of course NO ONE facing 40 years in prison would ever change the story for his benefit

What a interesting comment. We have a girl who is infatuated with this guy and the result ends in a classic he said she said where no real physical evidence that I know of has been presented and people think this guy should go to prison! I'll reiterate my opinion that this should have never ever made it this far. The lesson learned should be if you think you have been raped go to the authorities right away. This is total bullshit!!

 

[PlayerRep]

And of course NO ONE facing 40 years in prison would ever change the story for his benefit

What a interesting comment. We have a girl who is infatuated with this guy and the result ends in a classic he said she said where no real physical evidence that I know of has been presented and people think this guy should go to prison! I'll reiterate my opinion that this should have never ever made it this far. The lesson learned should be if you think you have been raped go to the authorities right away. This is total bullshit!!

Talk about changing stories. How many different stories has she told in just the texts and conversations that have been reported so far?

 

[UMGriz75]

And of course NO ONE facing 40 years in prison would ever change the story for his benefit

What a interesting comment. We have a girl who is infatuated with this guy and the result ends in a classic he said she said where no real physical evidence that I know of has been presented and people think this guy should go to prison! I'll reiterate my opinion that this should have never ever made it this far. The lesson learned should be if you think you have been raped go to the authorities right away. This is total bullshit!!

Where did JJ ever change HIS story?

This is one big, heavy, hairy, very red, herring. What was the point of the completely spurious suggestion?

 

[grizindabox]

And of course NO ONE facing 40 years in prison would ever change the story for his benefit

once again #moredumb

you make it sound like JJ could not possibly be telling the truth, or that the accuser could be changing the story for her benefit. All these posts exposing personal bias, and conjecture are growing tiresome.

 

[tnt]

If college kids trying to get laid are the victims of bad parenting, than the huge majority of parents whose kids go to college are bad parents. Just more dumb from you. You are in the minority and your bias shows in the above post. I guess I should say I admire your morals and restraint and all that, but the truth is I don't. In fact, I don't believe much of what you say. If what you say above is YOUR reality, where everyone is a victim of something, and the parents of NORMAL kids are somehow bad parents, than you can GFY.

BTW. In an earlier post you seemed to be making fun of JJs sexual prowess. Hypocritical much?

You missed (conveniently I'm sure) about 80% of what i said, but you are probably still trying to get laid. Most College students (and for that matter normal folks) sleep with one person at a time and usually with in a relationship, they don't collect notches either in a bed post or belt. THAT behavior leads to problems. That is something every kid (male or female) should be aware of. Now either JJ was never taught any different, or he lacks a lot of character. Otherwise he would never have put his future, his career, school, or team at such risk. Relationships are risky enough. Now I realize you don't get that and could care less but that simply is the way the real world works. Skanks and players don't usually have a lot work out for them in life and way too many ex-jocks spend the rest of their lives trying to relive their glory days (if they ever REALLY had them) If you think thats normal, go for it. I have often wondered what kind of adult worships 20 year old ball players as opposed to enjoying the game. The sad thing is in all that normalcy some pretty good kids get hurt. You have watched way too many movies or dreamed way too many fantasy's, and/or read too much college porn if you truly believe most kids don't show some restraint in who and when they sleep with someone and their whole college career, is one party after another hooking up with whoever whenever.

As far as JJ's skills, he's probably as good as any other kid his age. Doesn't mean as I suggested, that he wasn't turned on for some time and not thinking his best.

It also doesn't mean that his story when confronted wouldn't reflect him in the best possible light.

 

[uofmman1122]

You missed (conveniently I'm sure) about 80% of what i said, but you are probably still trying to get laid. Most College students (and for that matter normal folks) sleep with one person at a time and usually with in a relationship, they don't collect notches either in a bed post or belt. THAT behavior leads to problems. That is something every kid (male or female) should be aware of. Now either JJ was never taught any different, or he lacks a lot of character. Otherwise he would never have put his future, his career, school, or team at such risk. Relationships are risky enough. Now I realize you don't get that and could care less but that simply is the way the real world works. Skanks and players don't usually have a lot work out for them in life and way too many ex-jocks spend the rest of their lives trying to relive their glory days (if they ever REALLY had them) If you think thats normal, go for it. I have often wondered what kind of adult worships 20 year old ball players as opposed to enjoying the game. The sad thing is in all that normalcy some pretty good kids get hurt. You have watched way too many movies or dreamed way too many fantasy's, and/or read too much college porn if you truly believe most kids don't show some restraint in who and when they sleep with someone and their whole college career, is one party after another hooking up with whoever whenever.

Wow. I'm not taking any sides here, but this has to be one of the most out of touch, naive things I've ever read. No offense, but it's pretty obvious you're already condemning JJ based on this flawed moral assumption.

 

[UMGriz75]

When one puts on pink colored glasses they start acting like activist social workers. Try hanging out with guys once in a while. BTW, I hope that one of the daughters who had this reaction wasn't the supposed Judge from Kansas. If she was shocked by a motion from a defense attorney, she has no right being a Judge.

Who said she was shocked? Victim Blaming has been the defense forever, sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. Clinical social workers pretty much spend their careers picking up the pieces from "real men"

Yeah, we've heard all about Brian Banks.

The "victim" doesn't want to give her $1.2 million back. The "real man" doesn't get his life back.

But, you know, that would just be all about "victim blaming" wouldn't it? It's a nice little insidious stereotype that ensures wrongful convictions for which its advocates bear no shame because of their built in, admitted, stereotypes about "real men" aided, abetted and ruthlessly exploited by the Gwen Florios and the Joseph Baken's of this town.

 

[grizindabox]

If college kids trying to get laid are the victims of bad parenting, than the huge majority of parents whose kids go to college are bad parents. Just more dumb from you. You are in the minority and your bias shows in the above post. I guess I should say I admire your morals and restraint and all that, but the truth is I don't. In fact, I don't believe much of what you say. If what you say above is YOUR reality, where everyone is a victim of something, and the parents of NORMAL kids are somehow bad parents, than you can GFY.

BTW. In an earlier post you seemed to be making fun of JJs sexual prowess. Hypocritical much?

You missed (conveniently I'm sure) about 80% of what i said, but you are probably still trying to get laid. Most College students (and for that matter normal folks) sleep with one person at a time and usually with in a relationship, they don't collect notches either in a bed post or belt. THAT behavior leads to problems. That is something every kid (male or female) should be aware of. Now either JJ was never taught any different, or he lacks a lot of character. Otherwise he would never have put his future, his career, school, or team at such risk. Relationships are risky enough. Now I realize you don't get that and could care less but that simply is the way the real world works. Skanks and players don't usually have a lot work out for them in life and way too many ex-jocks spend the rest of their lives trying to relive their glory days (if they ever REALLY had them) If you think thats normal, go for it. I have often wondered what kind of adult worships 20 year old ball players as opposed to enjoying the game. The sad thing is in all that normalcy some pretty good kids get hurt. You have watched way too many movies or dreamed way too many fantasy's, and/or read too much college porn if you truly believe most kids don't show some restraint in who and when they sleep with someone and their whole college career, is one party after another hooking up with whoever whenever.

As far as JJ's skills, he's probably as good as any other kid his age. Doesn't mean as I suggested, that he wasn't turned on for some time and not thinking his best.

It also doesn't mean that his story when confronted wouldn't reflect him in the best possible light.

#moredumb

 

[harrydoyle1989]

Can't we just agree that everyone claiming JJ must be guilty or Jane Doe must be lieing, especially PR/Jack, are insufferable jackasses and just move on? Is it really that hard to understand that the prosecution presents its evidence and JJ presents his evidence and no one other than the 2 of them really knows what the facts are?

This is like when I watched the Bonaduce show for a season. It is horribly embarrasing, especially considering many of these people probably graduated from the same university as me, but I can't take my eyes off it.