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No. 1 small city for young people

Missoula is great for nightlife/restaurants/shows/and outdoors but the high taxes for pet projects, the crime and the junkies have me ready to bail. We need good jobs here.
 
grizondarez said:
Missoula is great for nightlife/restaurants/shows/and outdoors but the high taxes for pet projects, the crime and the junkies have me ready to bail. We need good jobs here.
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Crime and junkies have always been there. I remember people saying the same thing 20 years ago. And a little grunginess kinda keeps Missoula real in my opinion. Otherwise you get Bozeman or Whitefish; sterile Disneyland versions of what realtors are trying to sell as ‘Montana.’
 
BozAngelesGriz said:
grizondarez said:
Missoula is great for nightlife/restaurants/shows/and outdoors but the high taxes for pet projects, the crime and the junkies have me ready to bail. We need good jobs here.
Click to expand...

Crime and junkies have always been there. I remember people saying the same thing 20 years ago. And a little grunginess kinda keeps Missoula real in my opinion. Otherwise you get Bozeman or Whitefish; sterile Disneyland versions of what realtors are trying to sell as ‘Montana.’
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Yes the junkies always been here but it is 20 times worse than 2003. I worked downtown back 2000-2003. It was great. Moved to Bozeman for work until 2018 and came back. It is nothing like it used to be. Most everyone i know has moved to the Bitteroot or to Frenchtown because of the tents, crime and the high taxes. The river trail is like the walking dead zombie show.
 
grizondarez said:
BozAngelesGriz said:
Crime and junkies have always been there. I remember people saying the same thing 20 years ago. And a little grunginess kinda keeps Missoula real in my opinion. Otherwise you get Bozeman or Whitefish; sterile Disneyland versions of what realtors are trying to sell as ‘Montana.’
Click to expand...

Yes the junkies always been here but it is 20 times worse than 2003. I worked downtown back 2000-2003. It was great. Moved to Bozeman for work until 2018 and came back. It is nothing like it used to be. Most everyone i know has moved to the Bitteroot or to Frenchtown because of the tents, crime and the high taxes. The river trail is like the walking dead zombie show.
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It's absolutely ridiculous. The difference is that Missoula has always been "grungy" and full of people living a Bohemian lifestyle. That's all fine and I actually loved it....when many of those people would work at the coffee shop and the bar and then write music or poetry or do art....and still afford to live in a home and eat food etc in Missoula.

Now all the bohemian wanders who kept Missoula weird have been completely priced out. You can't get a room for $300 anymore like you could 15-20 years ago. It's at least three times that if not more. And homelessness is running rampant.

I live right by the river trail. At the peak this summer, it was truly like the Walking Dead in a tent city earlier this summer. I have sympathy for anyone who's down and out on their luck. But you can't just have disenfranchised people living and sleeping along a once-pristine river trail that goes right into the heart of downtown. It's sad, frustrating and unsustainable.
 
When you have lefty loonies in power look forward to Portland, Seattle, San Francisco. for that manner just include blue states. Governor of (Washington was wrong} Oregon signed a law that teaching STEM courses are racist and not necessary any more.

grizondarez said:
BozAngelesGriz said:
Crime and junkies have always been there. I remember people saying the same thing 20 years ago. And a little grunginess kinda keeps Missoula real in my opinion. Otherwise you get Bozeman or Whitefish; sterile Disneyland versions of what realtors are trying to sell as ‘Montana.’
Click to expand...

Yes the junkies always been here but it is 20 times worse than 2003. I worked downtown back 2000-2003. It was great. Moved to Bozeman for work until 2018 and came back. It is nothing like it used to be. Most everyone i know has moved to the Bitteroot or to Frenchtown because of the tents, crime and the high taxes. The river trail is like the walking dead zombie show.
Click to expand...
 
I always make sure to tell everyone from out of state that Montana is awful/ we plow through the snow and fight grizzlies on the way to the grocery store.
 
armonte said:
When you have lefty loonies in power look forward to Portland, Seattle, San Francisco. for that manner just include blue states. Governor of Washington signed a law that teaching STEM courses are racist and not necessary any more.

grizondarez said:
Yes the junkies always been here but it is 20 times worse than 2003. I worked downtown back 2000-2003. It was great. Moved to Bozeman for work until 2018 and came back. It is nothing like it used to be. Most everyone i know has moved to the Bitteroot or to Frenchtown because of the tents, crime and the high taxes. The river trail is like the walking dead zombie show.
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Is our governor a leftist loony? Montana is pretty deep red at the moment, and the vagrant problem exists in all of our major towns. It might not be as visible as Missoula because of how concentrated everything is, but there are substantial homeless camps in Bozeman and Billings as well. Growing up in Bozeman until I left four years ago I never locked my car doors. Not once. Now when I visit I lock them if I go into the grocery store for ten minutes. Myself and family members have all had unlocked cars gone through in the last year, and some things stolen. In my opinion you could just as easily correlate this rise in crime to when Gianforte and his supermajority took over as to any other political figure. But these things don't always conveniently follow party lines.
 
Hung around Missoula for the past 60 years. Never did I have an altercation with a burned-out drug-crazed person inside a downtown business, until now. I've had 3 situations this summer where someone came into the business and started screaming obscenities at customers, slamming large picture window with their head, or spinning around screaming and swinging their fists at folks. Tough on a business and customers. It's over the top in my opinion, and yes, it does seem to follow the ideals of who's in charge over the long run. Billings and Bozeman are passing city ordinances to help control and correct the homeless sprawl. Missoula? They just keep allowing the down-trodden to significantly impact small businesses. I think homelessness has become an industry and the local politicians are locked into it.
 
This isn't a liberal blight problem. This is a human existence problem.

We have boat loads of marginalized people living on the edges of society and there are complex reasons as to why they are there. We don't have a homeless problem in Missoula, we have a national problem of which Missoula is one of thousands of communities. I get that it is easy to crap over Missoula because of its liberal bent, same with Portland, Seattle, San Francisco. That is low hanging fruit.

We have a failed social safety net, an economic system that forces people to make decisions between home and food, and yet we just want to blame failed policy objectives of both parties. We have a tax system in Montana that begs for reform, a minimum wage that hasn't increased in nearly 20 years, and state legislature that seems unable to tackle longitudinal problems that experts have long been railing upon for 40 years.

Missoula is an incredible community. Maybe one of the warmest and most hospitable communities that I have lived in over the years. Missoula and Montana are in need or substantive conversations about our values and what we or they want. We aren't going to back to Missoula of 1960 or even 1990 now, and the same with Montana as a whole. Until we grasp that we need to ask more of our politicians, our community, we are going to be stuck in the same damn place a decade from now. Just with more people on the margins.

There are so many people who are working tirelessly to fix those things in Missoula and elsewhere. Just requires more than what Missoula has and those services are offering at this point. Maybe that is a private and community answer, or a government solution, but it isn't a problem that is limited to liberal communities.
 
BozAngelesGriz said:
armonte said:
When you have lefty loonies in power look forward to Portland, Seattle, San Francisco. for that manner just include blue states. Governor of Washington signed a law that teaching STEM courses are racist and not necessary any more.
Click to expand...

Is our governor a leftist loony? Montana is pretty deep red at the moment, and the vagrant problem exists in all of our major towns. It might not be as visible as Missoula because of how concentrated everything is, but there are substantial homeless camps in Bozeman and Billings as well. Growing up in Bozeman until I left four years ago I never locked my car doors. Not once. Now when I visit I lock them if I go into the grocery store for ten minutes. Myself and family members have all had unlocked cars gone through in the last year, and some things stolen. In my opinion you could just as easily correlate this rise in crime to when Gianforte and his supermajority took over as to any other political figure. But these things don't always conveniently follow party lines.
[/quote
One big difference i saw with the homeless in Bozeman was a large portion of them are continuing to work or trying to work and just cant afford rent so they are in RVs. In Missoula its seems more like the Seattle Portland zombies strung out and stick around because we have services for them. Im not saying all homeless are junkies but it is sad for the people that genuinely want help and want to work and the services get taken advantage of. Alot of people come from other communities because Missoula provides services for the homeless. Not sure how ya fix it?
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HelenaHandBasket said:
MikeyGriz said:
The minimum wage in Montana adjusts every year.
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How does that compare to a livable wage?
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Minimum wage jobs should not pay a livable wage. They are more of a pathway to getting the necessary skills for a livable wage position. They are by definition an entry level position.
 
grizondarez said:
BozAngelesGriz said:
Is our governor a leftist loony? Montana is pretty deep red at the moment, and the vagrant problem exists in all of our major towns. It might not be as visible as Missoula because of how concentrated everything is, but there are substantial homeless camps in Bozeman and Billings as well. Growing up in Bozeman until I left four years ago I never locked my car doors. Not once. Now when I visit I lock them if I go into the grocery store for ten minutes. Myself and family members have all had unlocked cars gone through in the last year, and some things stolen. In my opinion you could just as easily correlate this rise in crime to when Gianforte and his supermajority took over as to any other political figure. But these things don't always conveniently follow party lines.
[/quote
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Click to expand...
 
armonte said:
When you have lefty loonies in power look forward to Portland, Seattle, San Francisco. for that manner just include blue states. Governor of Washington signed a law that teaching STEM courses are racist and not necessary any more.

grizondarez said:
Yes the junkies always been here but it is 20 times worse than 2003. I worked downtown back 2000-2003. It was great. Moved to Bozeman for work until 2018 and came back. It is nothing like it used to be. Most everyone i know has moved to the Bitteroot or to Frenchtown because of the tents, crime and the high taxes. The river trail is like the walking dead zombie show.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

LOL. What??

Can't believe everything you hear on fox, dude.
 
Grizfan-24 said:
This isn't a liberal blight problem. This is a human existence problem.

We have boat loads of marginalized people living on the edges of society and there are complex reasons as to why they are there. We don't have a homeless problem in Missoula, we have a national problem of which Missoula is one of thousands of communities. I get that it is easy to crap over Missoula because of its liberal bent, same with Portland, Seattle, San Francisco. That is low hanging fruit.

We have a failed social safety net, an economic system that forces people to make decisions between home and food, and yet we just want to blame failed policy objectives of both parties. We have a tax system in Montana that begs for reform, a minimum wage that hasn't increased in nearly 20 years, and state legislature that seems unable to tackle longitudinal problems that experts have long been railing upon for 40 years.

Missoula is an incredible community. Maybe one of the warmest and most hospitable communities that I have lived in over the years. Missoula and Montana are in need or substantive conversations about our values and what we or they want. We aren't going to back to Missoula of 1960 or even 1990 now, and the same with Montana as a whole. Until we grasp that we need to ask more of our politicians, our community, we are going to be stuck in the same damn place a decade from now. Just with more people on the margins.

There are so many people who are working tirelessly to fix those things in Missoula and elsewhere. Just requires more than what Missoula has and those services are offering at this point. Maybe that is a private and community answer, or a government solution, but it isn't a problem that is limited to liberal communities.
Click to expand...

As always, terrific post, 24.

Those who want to politicize these issues are simply pushing an agenda. There is poverty and homelessness and crime everywhere, both in "liberal" states and "conservative" states.
 
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