Next up 2/6 at PSU

[SkyRider]

4. That gym is an embarrassment to DI athletics.

Frenchtown High School has a better gym. Many grade schools have better gyms. That one makes Sac State's gym look positively collegiate by comparison.

Are they still set to begin construction this spring for a renovated +/- 5,000 seat arena?

http://www.bizjournals.com/portland/blog/real-estate-daily/2015/03/ohsu-kicks-in-7-million-portland-state-arena.html

 

[AZGrizFan]

"Not big enough or strong enough to play in the Pac-12, but definitely big enough and strong enough to dominate the Big Sky."

Probably fair enough. An interesting cut to make during a game ...

Is it so hard to support the players? :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[UMGriz75]

"Not big enough or strong enough to play in the Pac-12, but definitely big enough and strong enough to dominate the Big Sky."

Probably fair enough. An interesting cut to make during a game ...

Is it so hard to support the players? :lol: :lol: :lol:

No. I agree that Breunig dominates the Big Sky. I definitely think he is big enough and strong enough to dominate the Big Sky, which is what I said, indeed "definitely" so. Is it that hard to be rational? Are you saying Breunig should be in the NBA? That Breunig is NOT strong enough or big enough to dominate the Big Sky?

I retract the question. It is obviously unfair to ask it in any kind of context or reality, for those who recognize neither. Pray, do you think Breunig would be dominating PAC 12 this year, AZ GrizFan?

And why do you think so?

 

[EverettGriz]

The last two years Martin would have been extremely successful in the Pac12. Coach Romar has said so on many occasions. Would he be "dominant" in that league? I believe I'll leave that argument for those who care to argue about things which are based purely in judgement.

 

[Potomac Griz]

do you think Breunig would be dominating PAC 12 this year, AZ GrizFan?

And why do you think so?

Their announcer didn't say anything about the dominating the Pac 12 though. Their announcer said:

"Not big enough or strong enough to play in the Pac-12, but definitely big enough and strong enough to dominate the Big Sky."

I think Breunig would have done quite well in the Pac12 the past two seasons and definitely is big enough and strong enough to pay in the Pac-12 unlike what their announcer said. His performances against Top 100 competition the past 2 years shows that including the game against Pac12 Cal where he had 23 points, 5 rebounds and 2 blocks.

Here are his averages against top 100 competition in 13 games the past 2 seasons:
16.6pts, 6.8rebounds 1.5assists 0.9blocks

I'd say that's pretty impressive against some very good competition Yeah not all of it was Pac12 but many of those teams (especially the teams last year) the Griz played in the top 100 would whoop up on a good chunk of the Pac12.

 

[UMGriz75]

I think Breunig would have done quite well in the Pac12 the past two seasons and definitely is big enough and strong enough to pay in the Pac-12 unlike what their announcer said.

Well, he was there, and didn't. He is here, and did. He isn't there now, and so that's a tough claim to make, although I would certainly like to think he could, but then how did the whole Pac-12 miss him? His experience at UW was frankly dismal; certainly nobody saw him as realistic potential until his opportunity at Montana. But that isn't Pac-12. And if he didn't get that opportunity, could he have become what he has at Montana? He certainly wasn't getting that opportunity at Pac-12.

Yes, given the experience he got at Montana, could he play Pac-12 "now?" Probably. Could he have gotten that experience in Pac-12? Well, he wasn't getting it, that's why he's here.

 

[PlayerRep]

Breunig would have done very well in the Pac-12 the past 2 years. The announcer's comments are not correct. Breunig is certainly big enough and strong enough for the Pac-12. He is also athletic enough. What the announcer doesn't know and what is missing from this analysis is the extent of his improvement after he came to UM. During his red shirt year in particular, one of the assistant coaches worked with Breunig to improve and expand his game, particularly around the basket. Breunig also improved his shooting and strength significantly. Breunig is a much better and more complete player now than he was when he arrived in Missoula. If he continues to develop and improve, and has some good years in Europe, I think he has a shot at the NBA.

 

[UMGriz75]

When Breunig did play a Pac-12 team this year, he scored only 1 of 8 in field goals, got 4 offensive and 4 defensive rebounds, and made 1 free throw, playing only 15 minutes because of foul trouble. Total: 3 points.

 

[cmtgrizzly]

True he did not have his best statistical game against UW. Romar wasnt going to let him. They focused on shutting down Bruenig and out guards did not play well making it much easier to shut down MB. I think there was some mental baggage for him in that game. If he was on a Pac 12 team with other Pac -12 players Martin would do great and probably thrive and we wouldnt be talking about Europe any longer. He also likely been more successful against UW if the rest ofmthe team had been more of a threat. You never know but I think he would be a strong Pac12 player

 

[BelierPeaux]

When Breunig did play a Pac-12 team this year, he scored only 1 of 8 in field goals, got 4 offensive and 4 defensive rebounds, and made 1 free throw, playing only 15 minutes because of foul trouble. Total: 3 points.

Yeah, and playing against a 20th ranked Bulldogs, he shot 7 - 12 with 6 FT for 20 Points. had 3 Rebounds, 2 Assists, 2 Steals, 3 Turnovers, and 4 Fouls. All in 36 minutes of play. Sure, it's not the pac-12, but it's a far cry better than the Big Sky.

 

[UMGriz75]

If he was on a Pac 12 team with other Pac -12 players Martin would do great and probably thrive and we wouldnt be talking about Europe any longer.

Breunig was on a Pac-12 team with other Pac-12 players. I get the impression that things were going kind of downhill for Martin as a Pac-12 player.

2012-13 (Sophomore) - Played in 9 games and scored just one point during the season ... saw just 3 minutes of action in Pac-12 play ... scored four points off the bench in six minutes vs. Western Washington ... played 9 minutes in the season-opener vs. Loyola and had 1 point and 1 assist .. grabbed 3 rebounds in 9 minutes vs. Albany ... career-high 16 minutes vs. Colorado State ... grabbed a rebound vs. Cal Poly.

2011-12 (Freshman) - Played in 21 games and averaged 1.7 ppg ... averaged 8.1 minutes per game during the non-conference schedule but saw his minutes dip to 3.6 minutes a contest in just 9 conference appearances ... averages per 40 minutes of 11.5 ppg and 7.7 rebounds ... athletic and versatile wing player that has the ability to shoot from outside and play down on the low blocks ... scored 5 points and grabbed 4 rebounds in 29 minutes of action during the World Vision Classic ... came off the bench and played 17 minutes with 8 points, 3 rebounds and 1 block in exhibition game vs. SPU ... was scoreless but grabbed 2 rebounds and dished out an assist in his college debut vs. Ga. State ... scored 5 points on 2x2 shooting vs. Fla. Atlantic and grabbed 3 rebounds ... career high 14 mins at St. Louis, where he scored 3 points off the bench ... drew Lorenzo Romar's praise after sparking UW off the bench vs. Houston Baptist with 4 pts and 5 rebounds ... played a combined 4 mins in NYC and went scoreless ... grabbed 3 rebounds in 8 minutes vs. S. Dakota St ... career best 2 blocks, plus 4 points and 3 rebounds vs. CS Northridge ... scored 4 points on 2x3 shooting, blocked a shot and dished an assist out in 6 minutes vs. USC ... played 5 minutes and scored a career-hi equaling 5 points at USC, including his first-ever 3-point make ... played 4 minutes and brought the house down with a thunderous fast-break dunk vs. Northwestern in the second round of the NIT.

Trivia point: full name is Martin Phong Ni Watt Breunig.

 

[Potomac Griz]

When Breunig did play a Pac-12 team this year, he scored only 1 of 8 in field goals, got 4 offensive and 4 defensive rebounds, and made 1 free throw, playing only 15 minutes because of foul trouble. Total: 3 points.

Yeah he had a rough game @Washington. Damn near everyone had a rough game that game. When Breunig played against Cal (a Pac-12 team) last year he had 23 points and 5 rebounds. Rough game against Washington, great game against Cal.

You could use that same argument (looking at just one game) to say Jordan Gregory couldn't play in the WAC... since against Seattle his senior year he only had 6 points in 30+ minutes on 3-10 shooting. That would be silly though wouldn't it? One bad game (or one good game) isn't enough to base an opinion on when it comes to how a player would perform on a regular basis.

That's why I posted earlier about his stats vs top 100 teams (which would have ranked better than 1/2 of the Pac12 last year) rather than just looking at one rough game he had this year or the great game he had last year against Cal. Against "quality" (anything top 100 is considered a quality win) competition he's put up some great stats over the past couple of years.

Also see cmtgrizzly's post. Very good points there. Completely agree with him that Breunig would be a strong Pac12 player. We're damn lucky to have him here. Will be neat to see where he ends up after this year.

This article from the Kaimin explains a little of what was going on with Breunig at Washington. He was having a tough time there and it wasn't really basketball related.

This article has a video with Lorezno Romar talking about Breunig. Very interesting as well.

 

[UMGriz75]

Well, Breunig played two years in Pac-12, and played against a Pac-12 team this year just about like he did in his first two years. There's a consistency there, with some credible standard of comparison because it was the same team, and a team he was familiar with personally and yet he performed against the team at the same level he did for two full years with the team.

These things can be "explained" away, and there is always a tendency when a well-liked player has some actual statistical baggage, to "explain it away," that the record isn't "really" the record because of the existence of hypotheticals that "could" prove that record wrong but, at the end of the day, don't. They remain hypotheticals, whereas the actual record remains the actual record.

I understand his problems at UW as a young man on a large campus without a significant social support group. It doesn't change the record. I understand that he probably did not get the level of coaching necessary to reach his potential. He will be neither the first nor the last, but that doesn't change the factual record. He may have had "baggage" in the game against UW, but that doesn't change the factual record that his performance there looked like his previous Pac-12 game experiences.

There's a point where each actual experience requires a justification with the implication that it wouldn't have happened that way "but for ...", but after so many necessary justifications, the exercise begins to collapse on itself. If all this were true, why isn't it true then for everyone?

I think Martin would agree that coming to the University of Montana was one of the best things that ever happened to him. It certainly is one of the best things that ever happened to us.

He may very well be proof that young players need to play to open up their talents, instead of sitting on benches; and that coaches that don't try to maximize their young or bench players playing time can do the players and the team a great disservice. Thinking Bradshaw, Boehning and DeJong. These guys get out there for a couple of minutes, cold, flub up, and back on the bench. Then you see DeJong come out, shoot 10 points, 63% and do some excellent rebounding and think, "well, do these kids underperform when they get out there briefly, or did DeJong overperform?" Is he a better player that should get more time to prove it; a Breunig that a Romar is overlooking?

I'd like to think Breunig could go back and play Pac-12 successfully. The record doesn't completely support the notion, but it is a positive reflection on Breunig that we would like to think he could.

 

[AZGrizFan]

"Not big enough or strong enough to play in the Pac-12, but definitely big enough and strong enough to dominate the Big Sky."

Probably fair enough. An interesting cut to make during a game ...

Is it so hard to support the players? :lol: :lol: :lol:

No. I agree that Breunig dominates the Big Sky. I definitely think he is big enough and strong enough to dominate the Big Sky, which is what I said, indeed "definitely" so. Is it that hard to be rational? Are you saying Breunig should be in the NBA? That Breunig is NOT strong enough or big enough to dominate the Big Sky?

I retract the question. It is obviously unfair to ask it in any kind of context or reality, for those who recognize neither. Pray, do you think Breunig would be dominating PAC 12 this year, AZ GrizFan?

And why do you think so?

Dude, you react like frog legs on a lightening rod....like shootin' fish in a barrel... :lol:

 

[Potomac Griz]

Well, Breunig played two years in Pac-12, and played against a Pac-12 team this year just about like he did in his first two years. There's a consistency there, with some credible standard of comparison because it was the same team, and a team he was familiar with personally and yet he performed against the team at the same level he did for two full years with the team.

These things can be "explained" away, and there is always a tendency when a well-liked player has some actual statistical baggage, to "explain it away," that the record isn't "really" the record because of the existence of hypotheticals that "could" prove that record wrong but, at the end of the day, don't. They remain hypotheticals, whereas the actual record remains the actual record.

After Gregory's freshman season would you have agreed then if someone said he couldn't play at the Big Sky level? Or would you have "explained it away" as he's young and transitioning to the D1 game (much like how Breunig was young, transitioning to the D1 game AND to a brand new country where he felt out of place)?

Very curious to hear your answer on that question.

Players grow mentally a lot between their true freshman years and their 4th and 5th years if they redshirt (like Breunig did after his sophomore season due to transfer rules). Just because you don't like the explanation doesn't mean it's not valid

What's hypothetical about the actual statistics against quality competition? Breunig has shown he can play at the level of the much better conferences like the Pac12, WCC, MW, Top100 teams, etc. The stats don't lie. You're relying on old stats from when he was a true freshman and true sophomore. I'm relying on the current stats of the current Breunig, which is who this discussion is about.

I do agree that coming to Montana was probably the best thing for him, which is basically what he says in that article. He got away from a place where he wasn't getting quality minutes, doubting himself, didn't really know anyone and was making him want to go back to Germany. He did what he needed to do to make sure that didn't happen again, got helped by the coaching staff big time to become more aggressive and turned into a damn good player for the Griz. He grew mentally as a person much like people do between their true freshman years and their later years in college.

I bet you a good number of Pac 12 teams would love to have him on their roster. Same goes for many of the teams from the WCC, Mountain West and a lot of other very good conferences.

 

[mtgrizrule]

Well, Breunig played two years in Pac-12, and played against a Pac-12 team this year just about like he did in his first two years. There's a consistency there, with some credible standard of comparison because it was the same team, and a team he was familiar with personally and yet he performed against the team at the same level he did for two full years with the team.

These things can be "explained" away, and there is always a tendency when a well-liked player has some actual statistical baggage, to "explain it away," that the record isn't "really" the record because of the existence of hypotheticals that "could" prove that record wrong but, at the end of the day, don't. They remain hypotheticals, whereas the actual record remains the actual record.

After Gregory's freshman season would you have agreed then if someone said he couldn't play at the Big Sky level? Or would you have "explained it away" as he's young and transitioning to the D1 game (much like how Breunig was young, transitioning to the D1 game AND to a brand new country where he felt out of place)?

Very curious to hear your answer on that question.

Players grow mentally a lot between their true freshman years and their 4th and 5th years if they redshirt (like Breunig did after his sophomore season due to transfer rules). Just because you don't like the explanation doesn't mean it's not valid

What's hypothetical about the actual statistics against quality competition? Breunig has shown he can play at the level of the much better conferences like the Pac12, WCC, MW, Top100 teams, etc. The stats don't lie. You're relying on old stats from when he was a true freshman and true sophomore. I'm relying on the current stats of the current Breunig, which is who this discussion is about.

I do agree that coming to Montana was probably the best thing for him, which is basically what he says in that article. He got away from a place where he wasn't getting quality minutes, doubting himself, didn't really know anyone and was making him want to go back to Germany. He did what he needed to do to make sure that didn't happen again, got helped by the coaching staff big time to become more aggressive and turned into a damn good player for the Griz. He grew mentally as a person much like people do between their true freshman years and their later years in college.

I bet you a good number of Pac 12 teams would love to have him on their roster. Same goes for many of the teams from the WCC, Mountain West and a lot of other very good conferences.

I will put this debate to rest right now. Yes, Breunig would be a great Pac 12 player. He is a great athlete. More importantly, he has a great work ethic in improving his game. He is always working on his game when he is not studying. I have been on campus numerous times in the offseason and during the season. Each and every time when I am walking around the Adams Center, who do I see working on his game? Martin Breunig!!!! He has spent as many hours in the gym as any GRIZ, including Jordan Gregory working on his game. The difference is, we all saw what Gregory was like as a true Freshman and watch his development through his whole college career. We have not had the luxury with Breunig. Also to add, Breunig's improvements are not as noticeable because he was a better player and athlete than Gregory going into college, therefore his work does not jump out at us like Gregory's work did.

I tell you this much, we fans have yet to see everything Breunig is capable of doing offensively, being he has accepted his role as a post scorer. He is a good ball handler and shooter too. We have seen hints of these things from time to time. Travis has yet to unleash the full arsenal Breunig is capable of.

 

[UMGriz75]

After Gregory's freshman season would you have agreed then if someone said he couldn't play at the Big Sky level? Or would you have "explained it away" as he's young and transitioning to the D1 game (much like how Breunig was young, transitioning to the D1 game AND to a brand new country where he felt out of place)?

Very curious to hear your answer on that question.

Gregory did what freshmen do usually, sit on the bench. We used to play them as the "Cubs" which I thought was a great way to develop college basketball talent. He was lonely here at UM, depressed over not getting playing time, he almost left.

Sophomore year, he get some playing time and his star ascended. By senior year, he was one of the best we have ever had.

No one had to explain anything away about him.

Breunig had a pretty good freshman year, played in 21 games, the polar opposite of Gregory.

Gregory got off the bench his sophomore year, and improved with every game. By the end of his sophomore year, we all knew we had something special there.

Breunig went in the other direction his sophomore year, 9 games, 1 point. When he got the opportunity this season to play back in that same conference he got three points. When Jordan Gregory got to play the final game at home in his original conference, he scored 16 points.

Not sure where you want to go with this; I don't see the point.

 

[Potomac Griz]

Gregory did what freshmen do usually, sit on the bench. We used to play them as the "Cubs" which I thought was a great way to develop college basketball talent. He was lonely here at UM, depressed over not getting playing time, he almost left.

Just like Breunig did most of his freshman year at Washington (which you're using as ammo against him). He sat on the bench too. He averaged 5.9 minutes per game his freshman year (

Breunig had a pretty good freshman year, played in 21 games, the polar opposite of Gregory.

Polar opposite? Gregory played in 18 games for the Griz his freshman year. Breunig played 21.

18 games vs 21 games... Not that big of a difference.

But I see how you're going to explain it away...when it was Gregory he was a freshman, freshman usually sit on the bench, so it's all OK. When it was Breunig it's used as ammo to prove the current Breunig (who has come a LONG way) can't play at the Pac12 level.

Gotcha

Oh and for the record Gregory was a hell of a player for the Griz and we were lucky to have him too of course! Just like many young players it took a while for him to transition to the D1 level and start getting quality minutes. Imagine how difficult it must be for someone coming from an entirely different country to do the same where you don't even get to see your family on holidays and it's an entirely different culture?

Maybe it's just time to admit you're likely wrong on this. Breunig has come a long way and likely would be a damn good player in the Pac 12. There's a reason you are alone on this argument and that the statistics when it comes to Breunig's performance against top 100 teams don't support your argument...

 

[UMGriz75]

Well, if you want to make it a pissing match, go ahead.

I am stating that there were something like 46 performance metrics for MB's PAC-12 abilities, including the games for full two years, and a recent game in the same gym that his spent his first two years in. His game totals and averages stayed about the same, or worse.

You are arguing they should not "count" somehow because "something else." But there is no speculation about that data; those are hard facts. He "woulda', coulda'" is a sports bar argument.

I think he has become a terrific athlete at UM, and in the Big Sky Conference. That's not speculation. I hope he can finish the season on the championship team. I will speculate that he will. But that's what that is: speculation.

 

[UMGriz75]

But I see how you're going to explain it away...when it was Gregory he was a freshman, freshman usually sit on the bench, so it's all OK. When it was Breunig it's used as ammo to prove the current Breunig (who has come a LONG way) can't play at the Pac12 level.

Gotcha

How this got changed to noting that Jordan Gregory played better with each successive year in the Big Sky, which he played in and succeeded in, is somehow used as "ammo" to "prove" that Breunig can't play in the PAC-12, which he did play in and didn't succeed in, is a bit too stretchy. There's a point at which the facts are still the facts.

Jordan played a fairly typical career, not much play time as a Frosh, and getting better with each passing year, in the Big Sky Conference. Martin Breunig didn't in Pac-12.

I too would like to speculate that Martin would do a great job back in Pac-12. I just don't follow your reasoning that I claim he can't because, somehow, "Jordan Gregory." Have we speculated enough on what won't and can't happen?