NCAA ruling

[Cringer]

Your first sentence isn't correct, but your next ones probably are. Again, how can someone self-report something that isn't known to be a violation? Just a question. Perhaps not a relevant point, as you suggest.

Thats why my first sentence is so correct.

Not knowing rules = lack of institutional control

So by this logic any athletic department/employee of that would not pass an NCAA protocol test with a 100% stands liable of lack of institutional control? NCAA better get ready, they are going to be busy. I am disappointed in our leadership as they apparently got laxxed on rules. This is so asinine, "I was going to go to Northern Colorado, but Montana slipped me a hot dog and did my laundry." Good news, it is an easy fix; Stop giving kids free stuff/services.

Time to take whatever spanking they doll out, and move on. I hope mistakes were fixed.

No that is not what I am saying, lack of institutional control comes in when you try to plead ignorance to several issues across a broad array of incidents. That appears to be what the other poster was saying. There will always be occasional incidents of rules violations, your athletic department must make everyone aware of the rules and self report those incidents. If on the other hand the coaches and athletic department seems to be ignoring those rules and looking the other way it is probably time to do some firing and install some compliance people in those positions, it would be called "going in a new direction".

There's where we agree; it was the action or process followed not the knowledge of the rules. From what I am hearing I am disappointed in what could have been nothing devolving into something. This could/should have been easily avoided with moderate integrity. Then again I have the iceberg vantage point.

 

[Washgrizfan1]

Thats why my first sentence is so correct.

Not knowing rules = lack of institutional control

So by this logic any athletic department/employee of that would not pass an NCAA protocol test with a 100% stands liable of lack of institutional control? NCAA better get ready, they are going to be busy. I am disappointed in our leadership as they apparently got laxxed on rules. This is so asinine, "I was going to go to Northern Colorado, but Montana slipped me a hot dog and did my laundry." Good news, it is an easy fix; Stop giving kids free stuff/services.

Time to take whatever spanking they doll out, and move on. I hope mistakes were fixed.

No that is not what I am saying, lack of institutional control comes in when you try to plead ignorance to several issues across a broad array of incidents. That appears to be what the other poster was saying. There will always be occasional incidents of rules violations, your athletic department must make everyone aware of the rules and self report those incidents. If on the other hand the coaches and athletic department seems to be ignoring those rules and looking the other way it is probably time to do some firing and install some compliance people in those positions, it would be called "going in a new direction".

There's where we agree; it was the action or process followed not the knowledge of the rules. From what I am hearing I am disappointed in what could have been nothing devolving into something. This could/should have been easily avoided with moderate integrity. Then again I have the iceberg vantage point.

If you can elaborate, what are you hearing that could have been avoided? What was the lack of moderate integrity?

 

[Cringer]

So by this logic any athletic department/employee of that would not pass an NCAA protocol test with a 100% stands liable of lack of institutional control? NCAA better get ready, they are going to be busy. I am disappointed in our leadership as they apparently got laxxed on rules. This is so asinine, "I was going to go to Northern Colorado, but Montana slipped me a hot dog and did my laundry." Good news, it is an easy fix; Stop giving kids free stuff/services.

Time to take whatever spanking they doll out, and move on. I hope mistakes were fixed.

No that is not what I am saying, lack of institutional control comes in when you try to plead ignorance to several issues across a broad array of incidents. That appears to be what the other poster was saying. There will always be occasional incidents of rules violations, your athletic department must make everyone aware of the rules and self report those incidents. If on the other hand the coaches and athletic department seems to be ignoring those rules and looking the other way it is probably time to do some firing and install some compliance people in those positions, it would be called "going in a new direction".

There's where we agree; it was the action or process followed not the knowledge of the rules. From what I am hearing I am disappointed in what could have been nothing devolving into something. This could/should have been easily avoided with moderate integrity. Then again I have the iceberg vantage point.

If you can elaborate, what are you hearing that could have been avoided? What was the lack of moderate integrity?

Once again; iceberg. It sounds like an issue of self reporting innapropriate transactions between players and boosters/family members (e.g. Tailgate food, bail money loan, etc.) If we knew about the infractions, and that they were infractions, why not self report? Self reporting is the integrity I referenced. I have a feeling we will soon know, and perhaps I know nothing.

 

[nzone]

Can someone explain "excessive benefit." Is it one hot dog or two over a period of time? If such a rule exists wouldn't you think that every student athlete would be instructed that they can not receive X amount of food/drink over a given period of time. It seems odd that a societal entity is this concerned about calories.

 

[getgrizzy]

Can someone explain "excessive benefit." Is it one hot dog or two over a period of time? If such a rule exists wouldn't you think that every student athlete would be instructed that they can not receive X amount of food/drink over a given period of time. It seems odd that a societal entity is this concerned about calories.

where did you see that term used? n.c.a.a. has a rule against extra benefits and excessive expenses. they are basically benefits and expenses not specifically authorized. so, yeah, hot dogs, meals, laundry, and loans not returned within set timeframe would all fit since they aren't specifically authorized by the n.c.a.a.

 

[Cringer]

Also...How good were these freaking hot dogs? Did we try giving one to that Brekke kid? Seriously, I hate to think we lost a blue chip athlete because failed to give him one of our epic hot dogs.

 

[MTOutsider]

HOT DOG!!! Somebody is getting slipped the wiener...

 

[uofmman1122]

Also...How good were these freaking hot dogs? Did we try giving one to that Brekke kid? Seriously, I hate to think we lost a blue chip athlete because failed to give him one of our epic hot dogs.

I guess the weiners in Bozeman are more to his liking. :lol: :lol:

 

[doebrmn]

Excessive benefits are any benefits that are provided to a student-athlete that are not available to students in general. In this case, various things have come to light that could be construed as excessive (or improper) benefits. While the hot dogs get continuously mentioned, it seems no one wants to discuss the fact that a very well known booster that actually sits on a UM athletic board stated publicly that he (and his firm) had provided free legal services to student athletes. specifically, he stated that while his firm was not representing the athletes in the taser incident free of charge, he had in the past. This was a huge red flag and clearly what instigated the NCAA investigation. Since that time it came to light the payment of the Bail (which would likely be a UM booster, i.e., another players parent, providing a benefit that they likely don't provide for other students (which apparently was repaid), and the whole hot dog issue. Again, simply conjecture based upon reported facts, but with regard to the self-reporting discussion it has been reported that a UM administrator took a student-athlete to meet with a UM booster for purposes of obtaining legal services. Again, it was reported that this student-athlete was paying for those services. However, if this had been done in the past in which a student-athlete did not pay for those services, than clearly a UM administrator was aware that student-athlete was receiving improper benefits (or there was a likelihood of it) and was required to self-report.

These are likely the issues that the NCAA is looking into and, again, since it appears this investigation has now moved into the penalty phase, it is also likely that UM has admitted at least some of these violations and offered penalties that have not been accepted or have been rejected.

But like everyone else on this board, you would think the NCAA would have made a decision by now and this thing would be over.

 

[Cringer]

Was higher up trying to protect the booster? Everything described still sounds like a slap on the wrist if we just report it. I know, hindsight right? I need to wait until more information comes out, but more and more I feel like we may have allowed a mole hill to become a mountain.

 

[Grisly Fan]

...and clearly what instigated the NCAA investigation...

Says who?

 

[Buttegrizzle]

Are y'all listening to yourselves? Holy shit. The NCAA must be the most pathetic sports organization since Prairie View. It's like the IRS auditing individuals because they don't hope to succeed in auditing a Fortune 500. If the Griz get busted it better be something real. The sooner the SEC gives the NCAA the bird, the better. What a crock. I saw a Griz player talking on a cell phone to his parents after one of the last home game wins last season (when we still had a glimmer of post season hope). I heard him tell his folks if they win again next week they should make the playoffs and that he was hungry and could they put a few bucks in his debit account so he could go eat. Eye opener. Some of these guys are truly scraping by. I wanted to take this kid (not saying who it was) out for a 20 oz steak on the spot. The NCAA profits off the back of thousands of kids like this and keeps them from any compensation, even food? What a sham. Somebody file a class action on behalf of the un-compensated athletes who pay NCAA salaries.

 

[Buttegrizzle]

Are y'all listening to yourselves? Holy shit. The NCAA must be the most pathetic sports organization since Prairie View. It's like the IRS auditing individuals because they don't hope to succeed in auditing a Fortune 500. If the Griz get busted it better be something real. The sooner the SEC gives the NCAA the bird, the better. What a crock. I saw a Griz player talking on a cell phone to his parents after one of the last home game wins last season (when we still had a glimmer of post season hope). I heard him tell his folks if they win again next week they should make the playoffs and that he was hungry and could they put a few bucks in his debit account so he could go eat. Eye opener. Some of these guys are truly scraping by. I wanted to take this kid (not saying who it was) out for a 20 oz steak on the spot. The NCAA profits off the back of thousands of kids like this and keeps them from any compensation, even food? What a sham. Somebody file a class action on behalf of the un-compensated athletes who pay NCAA salaries.

 

[Buttegrizzle]

Oops didn't mean to post twice.

 

[Copper Griz]

Are y'all listening to yourselves? Holy shit. The NCAA must be the most pathetic sports organization since Prairie View. It's like the IRS auditing individuals because they don't hope to succeed in auditing a Fortune 500. If the Griz get busted it better be something real. The sooner the SEC gives the NCAA the bird, the better. What a crock. I saw a Griz player talking on a cell phone to his parents after one of the last home game wins last season (when we still had a glimmer of post season hope). I heard him tell his folks if they win again next week they should make the playoffs and that he was hungry and could they put a few bucks in his debit account so he could go eat. Eye opener. Some of these guys are truly scraping by. I wanted to take this kid (not saying who it was) out for a 20 oz steak on the spot. The NCAA profits off the back of thousands of kids like this and keeps them from any compensation, even food? What a sham. Somebody file a class action on behalf of the un-compensated athletes who pay NCAA salaries.

Yes, unfortunately the human element is completely ignored by the NCAA, schools and fans. The train left the station and collegiate athletics is now about one thing - big money. I think you would be hard pressed to find someone who thinks the NCAA is doing a good job of policing and managing collegiate athletics/athletes. Sadly, I don't see anything changing anytime soon. Considering the penalty Oregon received - a playoff ban for the Griz is a low probability. Vacating games and schollies is likely and I do believe they should tar and feather Rolls Royce and make him run all the way from the stadium to Rockin Rudy's. Tar Pat Williams and Florio while they are it. Someone should have to pay for these thugs getting free meals and laundry dammit. I won't even try to defend the bail money. Someone needs their head examined if they think that was appropriate. Holy hell - so obvious and enough evidence for the most incompetent of investigators.

 

[George Ferguson]

People still go to Rockin' Rudys?????

 

[George Ferguson]

I'm also curious to know how Bobcat fans know that Uncle Milt is officially a "booster"? Not saying he isn't, but why assume that a rich lawyer who loves the Griz is? I would be willing to bet there are rich lawyers in every college football town in America and not all of them are boosters. Or is it mandatory to be one if you obtain your law degree and practice in the town of a large and high-profile college football program? Also, Does the M-Club have an actual printed list of donors and members? I can't find one at all? Hell, I've bought a brick for four straight years now, and the only way anyone would know is if I actually go try to find those bricks. Does MSU publish a PUBLIC list of ALL its football donors?

 

[wbtfg]

I'm also curious to know how Bobcat fans know that Uncle Milt is officially a "booster"? Not saying he isn't, but why assume that a rich lawyer who loves the Griz is? I would be willing to bet there are rich lawyers in every college football town in America and not all of them are boosters. Or is it mandatory to be one if you obtain your law degree and practice in the town of a large and high-profile college football program? Also, Does the M-Club have an actual printed list of donors and members? I can't find one at all? Hell, I've bought a brick for four straight years now, and the only way anyone would know is if I actually go try to find those bricks. Does MSU publish a PUBLIC list of ALL its football donors?

Doesnt have to be a donor to qualify as a booster according to ncaa

 

[getgrizzy]

january 10, 2012 missoulian:

"It is true that our entire firm has been involved with the university over the years, with scholarships and donations that don't just have to do with athletics," Datsopoulos said.
Datsopoulos said the firm has represented athletes pro bono in the past, but said the Johnson, Kemp and Donaldson cases all involved fees.

yes, he's a donor.

datso's firm doesn't have an agreement with u.m. to represent our athletes or students, but it, along with other firms and lawyers, represent our athletes so often that there is probably a presumption among the athletes that they will get pro bono or greatly discounted legal representation in the event they get in trouble.

 

[doebrmn]

january 10, 2012 missoulian:

"It is true that our entire firm has been involved with the university over the years, with scholarships and donations that don't just have to do with athletics," Datsopoulos said.
Datsopoulos said the firm has represented athletes pro bono in the past, but said the Johnson, Kemp and Donaldson cases all involved fees.

yes, he's a donor.

datso's firm doesn't have an agreement with u.m. to represent our athletes or students, but it, along with other firms and lawyers, represent our athletes so often that there is probably a presumption among the athletes that they will get pro bono or greatly discounted legal representation in the event they get in trouble.

This is the quote I was referring to and there is no doubt this is what sent up a huge red flag. I remember reading this on the day it was published and thinking WTF was he thinking when he made the comment and knew immediately that an NCAA investigation was forthcoming (I should note that a few days later I also had another piece of information that confirmed this, but am not at liberty to discuss). Of course, after numerous arguments on this board about how wrong I was it was announced that in fact an investigation had been started. As for sitting on an athletic board, that was stated in a separate article regarding Donaldson.