MSU's Brad Daly wins the Buck Buchanan award

[grizindabox]

So everyone got it wrong?

That's the claim.

Has anyone not a Griz fan make that claim?

I don't think non griz fans know who he is. But it's actually quite common for players to go unnoticed while demolishing statistically and on the field. I mean it happened to the Griz last year with Wags getting 2nd in the fcs in sacks and didn't make any of the all american lists or honorable mention.. There are numerous examples of this for any team

Don't buy it for a second. I am not saying Brock did not have a great year, but I don't find it a big deal that he was 2nd team Big Sky and not in the top 20 for the Buck. If you are a good football player in this day and age, people will know who you are.

 

[Eriul]

That's the claim.

Has anyone not a Griz fan make that claim?

I don't think non griz fans know who he is. But it's actually quite common for players to go unnoticed while demolishing statistically and on the field. I mean it happened to the Griz last year with Wags getting 2nd in the fcs in sacks and didn't make any of the all american lists or honorable mention.. There are numerous examples of this for any team

Don't buy it for a second. I am not saying Brock did not have a great year, but I don't find it a big deal that he was 2nd team Big Sky and not in the top 20 for the Buck. If you are a good football player in this day and age, people will know who you are.

That's fine if you don't buy it...but to say Brock wasn't underrated is a stretch

 

[grizindabox]

Has anyone not a Griz fan make that claim?

I don't think non griz fans know who he is. But it's actually quite common for players to go unnoticed while demolishing statistically and on the field. I mean it happened to the Griz last year with Wags getting 2nd in the fcs in sacks and didn't make any of the all american lists or honorable mention.. There are numerous examples of this for any team

Don't buy it for a second. I am not saying Brock did not have a great year, but I don't find it a big deal that he was 2nd team Big Sky and not in the top 20 for the Buck. If you are a good football player in this day and age, people will know who you are.

That's fine if you don't buy it...but to say Brock wasn't underrated is a stretch

Every guy is overrated or underrated depending on where you stand. I personally believe that most Griz fans overrate everyone that dons the maroon. Brock was either the 3rd or 4th best inside LB according to the Big Sky post season selections...is that really a guy that is underrated?

 

[BWahlberg]

I don't remember all the stats from the UM game (not smart enough to find them on-line) But I thought I remember Daly had 2 sacks, a pass break-up, and a blocked punt in the game.

Incorrect.

Daly was not credited with any sacks, the announcers said he had one on the first series but he actually stopped Jordan Johnson for no gain on the play. The official stat book reads:

Jordan Johnson rush for no gain to the MSU39 (Brad Daly).

His stat line was 7 tackles, 1 TFL, 1 blocked kick, 1 QB hit
Coyle's stat line was 14 tackles, 2 TFL, 2 forced fumbles, 1 sack

Tough to overly tell but it's worth pointing out on both of Jordan Canada's touchdowns Daly had a clear shot at him and totally whiffed. Yes just two plays over the course of the game and the season, but two critical misses. Meanwhile Coyle made (at the very least) two critical plays to stop MSU drives.

Whiff #1, he comes thru the line and misses Canada, I believe that's him laying on the ground at JC's feet.




Whiff #2, he stands up and gets shoved over by Kistler, Canada runs right past him on his way into the endzone. Kistler is the big body in the center to right side of the photo. By this point Daly and most of the MSU defense was packing it in, a lot of guys stood and watched Canada run right past them with minimal effort to bring him down.

 

[BWahlberg]

I don't remember all the stats from the UM game (not smart enough to find them on-line) But I thought I remember Daly had 2 sacks, a pass break-up, and a blocked punt in the game.

Incorrect.

Daly was not credited with any sacks, the announcers said he had one on the first series but he actually stopped Jordan Johnson for no gain on the play. The official stat book reads:

Jordan Johnson rush for no gain to the MSU39 (Brad Daly).

His stat line was 7 tackles, 1 TFL, 1 blocked kick, 1 QB hit
Coyle's stat line was 14 tackles, 2 TFL, 2 forced fumbles, 1 sack

Tough to overly tell but it's worth pointing out on both of Jordan Canada's touchdowns Daly had a clear shot at him and totally whiffed. Yes just two plays over the course of the game and the season, but two critical misses. Meanwhile Coyle made (at the very least) two critical plays to stop MSU drives.

Whiff #1, he comes thru the line and misses Canada, I believe that's him laying on the ground at JC's feet.




Whiff #2, he stands up and gets shoved over by Kistler, Canada runs right past him on his way into the endzone. Kistler is the big body in the center to right side of the photo. By this point Daly and most of the MSU defense was packing it in, a lot of guys stood and watched Canada run right past them with minimal effort to bring him down.

 

[Eriul]

I don't think non griz fans know who he is. But it's actually quite common for players to go unnoticed while demolishing statistically and on the field. I mean it happened to the Griz last year with Wags getting 2nd in the fcs in sacks and didn't make any of the all american lists or honorable mention.. There are numerous examples of this for any team

Don't buy it for a second. I am not saying Brock did not have a great year, but I don't find it a big deal that he was 2nd team Big Sky and not in the top 20 for the Buck. If you are a good football player in this day and age, people will know who you are.

That's fine if you don't buy it...but to say Brock wasn't underrated is a stretch

Every guy is overrated or underrated depending on where you stand. I personally believe that most Griz fans overrate everyone that dons the maroon. Brock was either the 3rd or 4th best inside LB according to the Big Sky post season selections...is that really a guy that is underrated?

List me the better ones, provide their stats and provide Coyles. I will wait.

Meh, forget it I did it myself.

Coyle: 2 interceptions, 5 Forced Fumbles, 125 tackles(60 solo), 13.5 tfl, 4 sacks

Davis(1st team ILB): 2 interceptions, 2 Forced Fumbles, 131 Tackles(77 solo), 10 tfl, 5 sacks

Browning(1st team ILB): 1 interception, 4 Forced Fumbles, 106 Tackles(61 solo), 5 tfl, 1.5 sacks

Bumpas(2nd team ILB)(ahead of Coyle in Buchanan): 0 intercceptions, 0 Forced Fumbles, 108 Tackles(66 solo), 3.5 tfl, 1.5 sacks


Robertson(All-American): 1 interception, 2 Forced Fumbles, 141 Tackles(89 solo), 17 tfl, 5 sacks


So...tell me why wasn't Coyle first team Big Sky ILB again

Ive edited this post a million times but yah I could keep going about the LBS that were placed ahead of Coyle in the Buchanan but it would be too devastating to your argument

 

[grizindabox]

Don't buy it for a second. I am not saying Brock did not have a great year, but I don't find it a big deal that he was 2nd team Big Sky and not in the top 20 for the Buck. If you are a good football player in this day and age, people will know who you are.

That's fine if you don't buy it...but to say Brock wasn't underrated is a stretch

Every guy is overrated or underrated depending on where you stand. I personally believe that most Griz fans overrate everyone that dons the maroon. Brock was either the 3rd or 4th best inside LB according to the Big Sky post season selections...is that really a guy that is underrated?

List me the better ones, provide their stats and provide Coyles. I will wait.

According to Big Sky voters, they thought Todd Davis and Zak Browning were the top 2 inside linebackers. Brock's numbers are just as good, but not everything is based solely on numbers. You say he was underrated, but is being top 3 really underrated? Brock may have a beef with the Browning pick, but for whatever reason, he got more votes. As for the Buck, so Brock was not in the top 20...does this really mean he was underrated?

 

[Eriul]

That's fine if you don't buy it...but to say Brock wasn't underrated is a stretch

Every guy is overrated or underrated depending on where you stand. I personally believe that most Griz fans overrate everyone that dons the maroon. Brock was either the 3rd or 4th best inside LB according to the Big Sky post season selections...is that really a guy that is underrated?

List me the better ones, provide their stats and provide Coyles. I will wait.

According to Big Sky voters, they thought Todd Davis and Zak Browning were the top 2 inside linebackers. Brock's numbers are just as good, but not everything is based solely on numbers. You say he was underrated, but is being top 3 really underrated? Brock may have a beef with the Browning pick, but for whatever reason, he got more votes. As for the Buck, so Brock was not in the top 20...does this really mean he was underrated?

So 1 player has better stats than any other ILB and he is perceived as a worse player than those, and Coyle below Browning is a serious joke...I'm pretty sure that's the definition of underrated.

 

[grizindabox]

Every guy is overrated or underrated depending on where you stand. I personally believe that most Griz fans overrate everyone that dons the maroon. Brock was either the 3rd or 4th best inside LB according to the Big Sky post season selections...is that really a guy that is underrated?

List me the better ones, provide their stats and provide Coyles. I will wait.

According to Big Sky voters, they thought Todd Davis and Zak Browning were the top 2 inside linebackers. Brock's numbers are just as good, but not everything is based solely on numbers. You say he was underrated, but is being top 3 really underrated? Brock may have a beef with the Browning pick, but for whatever reason, he got more votes. As for the Buck, so Brock was not in the top 20...does this really mean he was underrated?

So 1 player has better stats than any other ILB and he is perceived as a worse player than those, and Coyle below Browning is a serious joke...I'm pretty sure that's the definition of underrated.

Yep, because everything is only about the stats. Also, did you note that Browning only played in 10 games...could be why his numbers aren't as comparable. And yes I know, durability.

 

[Eriul]

List me the better ones, provide their stats and provide Coyles. I will wait.

According to Big Sky voters, they thought Todd Davis and Zak Browning were the top 2 inside linebackers. Brock's numbers are just as good, but not everything is based solely on numbers. You say he was underrated, but is being top 3 really underrated? Brock may have a beef with the Browning pick, but for whatever reason, he got more votes. As for the Buck, so Brock was not in the top 20...does this really mean he was underrated?

So 1 player has better stats than any other ILB and he is perceived as a worse player than those, and Coyle below Browning is a serious joke...I'm pretty sure that's the definition of underrated.

Yep, because everything is only about the stats. Also, did you note that Browning only played in 10 games...could be why his numbers aren't as comparable. And yes I know, durability.

I mean please provide an argument as to why either of those players deserve the spot over Coyle. Were they more crucial to their team? Umm nope... Were they more clutch than Coyle? Umm...nope. Did they provide better stats? Umm nope... Did they play better against the same opponents than Coyle? Umm nope...

P.S. Bumpas also was ahead of Coyle in the Buchanan list...which kinda goes back to the original argument of the Buchanan loses credibility when someone like Bumpas is ahead of Coyle... but whatever. Keep trying to argue the fact that Coyle wasn't the best ILB in the Big Sky this year...

 

[George Ferguson]

I believe that Brock Coyle should have been a First-Team All-Conference LB, I believe the Big Sky coaches got that one way wrong. But NONE of that has anything to do with Brad Daly's individual season. He CLEARLY deserved to win the Buchanen Award and I think it's kind of weird for Griz' fans to questions the "validity" of an award a Montana player has won before, and one in which Caleb McSurdy was a finalist just two years ago and Jordan Tripp was a finalist for this season. Yes, Coyle should have been on the finalist list too, but "validity of the award".?/ That's a stretch. I sincerely doubt Kroy is questioning the "validity" of the Buck Buchanen Award.

 

[Eriul]

I believe that Brock Coyle should have been a First-Team All-Conference LB, I believe the Big Sky coaches got that one way wrong. But NONE of that has anything to do with Brad Daly's individual season. He CLEARLY deserved to win the Buchanen Award and I think it's kind of weird for Griz' fans to questions the "validity" of an award a Montana player has won before, and one in which Caleb McSurdy was a finalist just two years ago and Jordan Tripp was a finalist for this season. Yes, Coyle should have been on the finalist list too, but "validity of the award".?/ That's a stretch. I sincerely doubt Kroy is questioning the "validity" of the Buck Buchanen Award.

Umm.. Well the argument was that if Coyle wasn't top 20 and people like Clarance Bumpas are receiving votes, it nullifies the validity of the voters. I don't think whoever brought up the point understands that you only get the votes if you're on the watch list which Coyle was unfortunately left out of. I don't think their voters would argue that Bumpas had a better season than Coyle but I think they just voted on the players they could.

And I think many would argue that the fact the Biermann won the award kinda throws the argument towards the invalidity. I think many would argue that Lynch was a better player but I don't know enough about Lynch to argue that.

 

[grizindabox]

According to Big Sky voters, they thought Todd Davis and Zak Browning were the top 2 inside linebackers. Brock's numbers are just as good, but not everything is based solely on numbers. You say he was underrated, but is being top 3 really underrated? Brock may have a beef with the Browning pick, but for whatever reason, he got more votes. As for the Buck, so Brock was not in the top 20...does this really mean he was underrated?

So 1 player has better stats than any other ILB and he is perceived as a worse player than those, and Coyle below Browning is a serious joke...I'm pretty sure that's the definition of underrated.

Yep, because everything is only about the stats. Also, did you note that Browning only played in 10 games...could be why his numbers aren't as comparable. And yes I know, durability.

I mean please provide an argument as to why either of those players deserve the spot over Coyle. Were they more crucial to their team? Umm nope... Were they more clutch than Coyle? Umm...nope. Did they provide better stats? Umm nope... Did they play better against the same opponents than Coyle? Umm nope...

P.S. Bumpas also was ahead of Coyle in the Buchanan list...which kinda goes back to the original argument of the Buchanan loses credibility when someone like Bumpas is ahead of Coyle... but whatever. Keep trying to argue the fact that Coyle wasn't the best ILB in the Big Sky this year...

Can you offer anything other than your opinion to back up the claims in bold above? I also never made any personal claim whether he was or was not the best ILB.

 

[Eriul]

So 1 player has better stats than any other ILB and he is perceived as a worse player than those, and Coyle below Browning is a serious joke...I'm pretty sure that's the definition of underrated.

Yep, because everything is only about the stats. Also, did you note that Browning only played in 10 games...could be why his numbers aren't as comparable. And yes I know, durability.

I mean please provide an argument as to why either of those players deserve the spot over Coyle. Were they more crucial to their team? Umm nope... Were they more clutch than Coyle? Umm...nope. Did they provide better stats? Umm nope... Did they play better against the same opponents than Coyle? Umm nope...

P.S. Bumpas also was ahead of Coyle in the Buchanan list...which kinda goes back to the original argument of the Buchanan loses credibility when someone like Bumpas is ahead of Coyle... but whatever. Keep trying to argue the fact that Coyle wasn't the best ILB in the Big Sky this year...

Can you offer anything other than your opinion to back up the claims in bold above? I also never made any personal claim whether he was or was not the best ILB.

Umm I provided statistics...? You're the one who said "stats aren't everything." Well what else is there to compare to then if there's some sort of angle I'm missing as to why any ILB should be above Coyle I'm open to hearing it but anyone with a brain can't make that argument

and I mean you can search the games if you want to provide answers to my argument that you bolded but you're going to be disappointed towards your argument

 

[grizindabox]

Eriul, just because a guy does not get the tackle or the interception on a play does not mean that player could not have had a big influence on the outcome of the play. Stats show a lot, but not necessarily everything a player does or doesn't do on each and every play of a game. This is also an example, but is it possible that teams concentrated their efforts Davis which made the other Sac defenders better? Could we also, for an example, say the Brock benefited from having 2 first team OLB on his team, which allowed him the opportunities to make more plays. Brock did make the plays, but there are other things going on that do not show up in the stats, things that also attribute to how good a player is. I also am not saying that Brock could not as easily have been First team, or garnered some votes for the Buck, but I am saying the gap between being first team or second team was not very large. For whatever reason, some voters liked Brock a little less. By the way, are you any relation to PR...he is also from the "Stats tell the whole story" line of thinking...

 

[Eriul]

Eriul, just because a guy does not get the tackle or the interception on a play does not mean that player could not have had a big influence on the outcome of the play. Stats show a lot, but not necessarily everything a player does or doesn't do on each and every play of a game. This is also an example, but is it possible that teams concentrated their efforts Davis which made the other Sac defenders better? Could we also, for an example, say the Brock benefited from having 2 first team OLB on his team, which allowed him the opportunities to make more plays. Brock did make the plays, but there are other things going on that do not show up in the stats, things that also attribute to how good a player is. I also am not saying that Brock could not as easily have been First team, or garnered some votes for the Buck, but I am saying the gap between being first team or second team was not very large. For whatever reason, some voters liked Brock a little less. By the way, are you any relation to PR...he is also from the "Stats tell the whole story" line of thinking...

I never said stats tell everything but please provide an argument as to why Coyle was outplayed or a "worse" linebacker than the other 2. He provided more plays through the season as well as was an extremely clutch player. I'm sorry but stats do tell MOST of the story as its impossible to watch every team so it's fair to say Coyle was underrated. And that's the argument I provided that you are just trying to play devil's advocate to for no reason with no basis of argument. How about until you show an argument as to why Coyle deserved to be below either of those 1st teamers, we can just assume that most people underrated Coyle. Coyle was the best ILB in the Big Sky, by far.

Edit: Also weren't you the one who said we see through "maroon colored goggles" because we think Coyle was shafted on the vote? because statistics and logic is proving that we're right and if people aren't giving him the same credit as the other 1st team LB's isn't that portraying a bias against him rather than being equal?

 

[grizindabox]

Eriul, just because a guy does not get the tackle or the interception on a play does not mean that player could not have had a big influence on the outcome of the play. Stats show a lot, but not necessarily everything a player does or doesn't do on each and every play of a game. This is also an example, but is it possible that teams concentrated their efforts Davis which made the other Sac defenders better? Could we also, for an example, say the Brock benefited from having 2 first team OLB on his team, which allowed him the opportunities to make more plays. Brock did make the plays, but there are other things going on that do not show up in the stats, things that also attribute to how good a player is. I also am not saying that Brock could not as easily have been First team, or garnered some votes for the Buck, but I am saying the gap between being first team or second team was not very large. For whatever reason, some voters liked Brock a little less. By the way, are you any relation to PR...he is also from the "Stats tell the whole story" line of thinking...

I never said stats tell everything but please provide an argument as to why Coyle was outplayed or a "worse" linebacker than the other 2. He provided more plays through the season as well as was an extremely clutch player. I'm sorry but stats do tell MOST of the story as its impossible to watch every team so it's fair to say Coyle was underrated. And that's the argument I provided that you are just trying to play devil's advocate to for no reason with no basis of argument. How about until you show an argument as to why Coyle deserved to be below either of those 1st teamers, we can just assume that most people underrated Coyle. Coyle was the best ILB in the Big Sky, by far.

Edit: Also weren't you the one who said we see through "maroon colored goggles" because we think Coyle was shafted on the vote? because statistics and logic is proving that we're right and if people aren't giving him the same credit as the other 1st team LB's isn't that portraying a bias against him rather than being equal?

I never said he was a "worse" linebacker or got "outplayed" by the others. I stated that Brock was chosen as one of the top 4 ILB in the BSC, which I do not see as being underrated. Most Griz fans will disagree, but because he is a Griz. I doubt many people have watched the guys chosen first team more than a few times.

How about this for an argument...Big Sky Conference voters only thought he was good enough to be second team. It is your opinion that Brock was the best ILB in the BSC, and many others have the same opinion, but it seems that many also have the opinion that Brock was not the best ILB, but one of the top 4. This entire argument is dumb as the entire selection is based on people voting, which is not exactly a science.

I think Brock had a great season, I just do not see why people are getting their panties in a wad over the deal.

Also, seems that you are basing the entire comparison on stats...which makes sense because you stated that you have not watched very much or any of the other players.

 

[Eriul]

Eriul, just because a guy does not get the tackle or the interception on a play does not mean that player could not have had a big influence on the outcome of the play. Stats show a lot, but not necessarily everything a player does or doesn't do on each and every play of a game. This is also an example, but is it possible that teams concentrated their efforts Davis which made the other Sac defenders better? Could we also, for an example, say the Brock benefited from having 2 first team OLB on his team, which allowed him the opportunities to make more plays. Brock did make the plays, but there are other things going on that do not show up in the stats, things that also attribute to how good a player is. I also am not saying that Brock could not as easily have been First team, or garnered some votes for the Buck, but I am saying the gap between being first team or second team was not very large. For whatever reason, some voters liked Brock a little less. By the way, are you any relation to PR...he is also from the "Stats tell the whole story" line of thinking...

I never said stats tell everything but please provide an argument as to why Coyle was outplayed or a "worse" linebacker than the other 2. He provided more plays through the season as well as was an extremely clutch player. I'm sorry but stats do tell MOST of the story as its impossible to watch every team so it's fair to say Coyle was underrated. And that's the argument I provided that you are just trying to play devil's advocate to for no reason with no basis of argument. How about until you show an argument as to why Coyle deserved to be below either of those 1st teamers, we can just assume that most people underrated Coyle. Coyle was the best ILB in the Big Sky, by far.

Edit: Also weren't you the one who said we see through "maroon colored goggles" because we think Coyle was shafted on the vote? because statistics and logic is proving that we're right and if people aren't giving him the same credit as the other 1st team LB's isn't that portraying a bias against him rather than being equal?

I never said he was a "worse" linebacker or got "outplayed" by the others. I stated that Brock was chosen as one of the top 4 ILB in the BSC, which I do not see as being underrated. Most Griz fans will disagree, but because he is a Griz. I doubt many people have watched the guys chosen first team more than a few times.

How about this for an argument...Big Sky Conference voters only thought he was good enough to be second team. It is your opinion that Brock was the best ILB in the BSC, and many others have the same opinion, but it seems that many also have the opinion that Brock was not the best ILB, but one of the top 4. This entire argument is dumb as the entire selection is based on people voting, which is not exactly a science.

I think Brock had a great season, I just do not see why people are getting their panties in a wad over the deal.

Also, seems that you are basing the entire comparison on stats...which makes sense because you stated that you have not watched very much or any of the other players.

You initiated by arguing that anyone "not a griz fan" could argue that Coyle was underrated when any fan could easily look at the stats and see, "wow this kid from Montana had better stats than any other ILB, I wonder how 2 people were ahead of him." That's not maroon colored goggles, it's just the best evidence we have as to which player performed better. Yes yes yes, you just wanna say stats don't mean anything blah blah blah and SOMETIMES that is true, see Tru's senior season, but honestly most people could agree(REGARDLESS OF TEAM ALLIANCES) that Brock Coyle had a better season than any other ILB...the argument that you initiated in this thread..

 

[grizindabox]

Eriul, just because a guy does not get the tackle or the interception on a play does not mean that player could not have had a big influence on the outcome of the play. Stats show a lot, but not necessarily everything a player does or doesn't do on each and every play of a game. This is also an example, but is it possible that teams concentrated their efforts Davis which made the other Sac defenders better? Could we also, for an example, say the Brock benefited from having 2 first team OLB on his team, which allowed him the opportunities to make more plays. Brock did make the plays, but there are other things going on that do not show up in the stats, things that also attribute to how good a player is. I also am not saying that Brock could not as easily have been First team, or garnered some votes for the Buck, but I am saying the gap between being first team or second team was not very large. For whatever reason, some voters liked Brock a little less. By the way, are you any relation to PR...he is also from the "Stats tell the whole story" line of thinking...

I never said stats tell everything but please provide an argument as to why Coyle was outplayed or a "worse" linebacker than the other 2. He provided more plays through the season as well as was an extremely clutch player. I'm sorry but stats do tell MOST of the story as its impossible to watch every team so it's fair to say Coyle was underrated. And that's the argument I provided that you are just trying to play devil's advocate to for no reason with no basis of argument. How about until you show an argument as to why Coyle deserved to be below either of those 1st teamers, we can just assume that most people underrated Coyle. Coyle was the best ILB in the Big Sky, by far.

Edit: Also weren't you the one who said we see through "maroon colored goggles" because we think Coyle was shafted on the vote? because statistics and logic is proving that we're right and if people aren't giving him the same credit as the other 1st team LB's isn't that portraying a bias against him rather than being equal?

I never said he was a "worse" linebacker or got "outplayed" by the others. I stated that Brock was chosen as one of the top 4 ILB in the BSC, which I do not see as being underrated. Most Griz fans will disagree, but because he is a Griz. I doubt many people have watched the guys chosen first team more than a few times.

How about this for an argument...Big Sky Conference voters only thought he was good enough to be second team. It is your opinion that Brock was the best ILB in the BSC, and many others have the same opinion, but it seems that many also have the opinion that Brock was not the best ILB, but one of the top 4. This entire argument is dumb as the entire selection is based on people voting, which is not exactly a science.

I think Brock had a great season, I just do not see why people are getting their panties in a wad over the deal.

Also, seems that you are basing the entire comparison on stats...which makes sense because you stated that you have not watched very much or any of the other players.

You initiated by arguing that anyone "not a griz fan" could argue that Coyle was underrated when any fan could easily look at the stats and see, "wow this kid from Montana had better stats than any other ILB, I wonder how 2 people were ahead of him." That's not maroon colored goggles, it's just the best evidence we have as to which player performed better. Yes yes yes, you just wanna say stats don't mean anything blah blah blah and SOMETIMES that is true, see Tru's senior season, but honestly most people could agree(REGARDLESS OF TEAM ALLIANCES) that Brock Coyle had a better season than any other ILB...the argument that you initiated in this thread..

Actually, I stated that being chosen 1 of the top 4 ILB was not underrated. I would also argue that Davis has stats just as good as Brock. I also said that Brock could very well have been first team, but was not. You stated that Brock was the best ILB in the BSC handsdown...based solely on stats...hence you believe he was underrated...and many others looking just at stats would think the same...but it seems many people think there are a few other guys that are better, but Brock is better than all the others. If you see this as underrated...OK. I see it as Brock was on of the top ILB, nothing underrated about that.

 

[Eriul]

I never said stats tell everything but please provide an argument as to why Coyle was outplayed or a "worse" linebacker than the other 2. He provided more plays through the season as well as was an extremely clutch player. I'm sorry but stats do tell MOST of the story as its impossible to watch every team so it's fair to say Coyle was underrated. And that's the argument I provided that you are just trying to play devil's advocate to for no reason with no basis of argument. How about until you show an argument as to why Coyle deserved to be below either of those 1st teamers, we can just assume that most people underrated Coyle. Coyle was the best ILB in the Big Sky, by far.

Edit: Also weren't you the one who said we see through "maroon colored goggles" because we think Coyle was shafted on the vote? because statistics and logic is proving that we're right and if people aren't giving him the same credit as the other 1st team LB's isn't that portraying a bias against him rather than being equal?

I never said he was a "worse" linebacker or got "outplayed" by the others. I stated that Brock was chosen as one of the top 4 ILB in the BSC, which I do not see as being underrated. Most Griz fans will disagree, but because he is a Griz. I doubt many people have watched the guys chosen first team more than a few times.

How about this for an argument...Big Sky Conference voters only thought he was good enough to be second team. It is your opinion that Brock was the best ILB in the BSC, and many others have the same opinion, but it seems that many also have the opinion that Brock was not the best ILB, but one of the top 4. This entire argument is dumb as the entire selection is based on people voting, which is not exactly a science.

I think Brock had a great season, I just do not see why people are getting their panties in a wad over the deal.

Also, seems that you are basing the entire comparison on stats...which makes sense because you stated that you have not watched very much or any of the other players.

You initiated by arguing that anyone "not a griz fan" could argue that Coyle was underrated when any fan could easily look at the stats and see, "wow this kid from Montana had better stats than any other ILB, I wonder how 2 people were ahead of him." That's not maroon colored goggles, it's just the best evidence we have as to which player performed better. Yes yes yes, you just wanna say stats don't mean anything blah blah blah and SOMETIMES that is true, see Tru's senior season, but honestly most people could agree(REGARDLESS OF TEAM ALLIANCES) that Brock Coyle had a better season than any other ILB...the argument that you initiated in this thread..

Actually, I stated that being chosen 1 of the top 4 ILB was not underrated. I would also argue that Davis has stats just as good as Brock. I also said that Brock could very well have been first team, but was not. You stated that Brock was the best ILB in the BSC handsdown...based solely on stats...hence you believe he was underrated...and many others looking just at stats would think the same...but it seems many people think there are a few other guys that are better, but Brock is better than all the others. If you see this as underrated...OK. I see it as Brock was on of the top ILB, nothing underrated about that.

I think the claim is that he is under appreciated and probably should have been a 1st team all big sky and in the conversation for the Buchanan. I don't really know how to dispute that claim as Coyle's stats are better than a lot of the Buchanan watch list and I would be interested to see Coyle's stats against other first team Big Sky players.


So everyone got it wrong?


That's the claim.


Has anyone not a Griz fan make that claim?

Your words, not mine

Edit: I mean...now that the conversation has developed past the point where you think it was just us being homers saying that Brock shoulda been a 1st team all BSC and in the discussion for Buchanan will you at least admit that it's not necessarily the fact that we're homers but Coyle legit was under represented in voting? I mean... c'mon you really think some of these top 20 Buchanan voters deserve the conversation more than Coyle?

Clarance Bumpas: 107 TT, 42 Solo,
3.5 TFL, 1.5 SK,
2 PBU, 1 QBH, 1 BLK
(11 games)

Ronnie Hamlin: 101 TT, 47 Solo,
4 TFL, 1 SK, 1 QBH,
2 INT, 1 FF, 1 TD
(12 games)


I mean even all the other LB stats are comparable to his and even Davis didn't make it into the conversation.